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Ask the Tropers:
openEdit War
On Creator.Allison Pregler, Gemma
added the following:
to a second-bulletpoint, to this:
SailorTardis
removed both the second level-bulletpoint and the last sentence as Natter.
Gemma has since then added this to the above example:
openTroper Can't Grammar
Hollywill06 is making some pretty huge mistakes. I caught them with their Timeline.Gunners Genocide page, which...sort of speaks for itself, both when it comes to grammar issues and general lack of wiki understanding. note the page has been cutlisted; Mightymewtron copy pasted the text in a comment. The strange thing is, they've flown under the radar since at least February of this year, and scrolling down the list, yeah, none of their edits are passable- due to both grammar mistakes and other issues, like formatting problems
, a lack of wiki words
, and stub pages with a context issue
. For those who don't feel like clicking wicks, their grammar issues include:
- Lack of punctuation
- Randomly capitalized words
- Randomly uncapitalized words
- A complete lack of proper wiki formatting, in good number of examples
- Run-on sentences
- Generally confusing / nonsensical phrasing
I sent a notifier today but for problems this severe I'm not sure waiting around is a good idea.
Edited by WarJay77openCharacters/TheFuzzyPrincess
Right. So! On the 19th, I removed an "example" of UsefulNotes.Bisexual from Characters.The Fuzzy Princess as Useful Notes are not tropes. A day later, Mark Lungo added it back, knowingly starting an edit war over something incorrect (though he at least asked for a better solution). I only noticed this on the 22nd, so I sent him a PM restating that Useful Notes were not tropes, and that the character's bisexuality should be mentioned in her character description if it must be mentioned.
He does a burst of edits the following (aka this) morning. The characters page remains untouched, and my PM goes without a response.
So I did it myself, once again removing the bunk example and instead mentioning her being bi in her character description. I have been told multiple times that cleanup edits do not constitute as an Edit War, so I thought it was fine... but then I realized this could easily be interpreted as a Single-Issue Wonk, so I'm making this query ahead of time to clear things up.
openLouder with Crowder edit dispute
vexer is involved in a discussion with myself and (so far) Larkmarn about neutral POV on the politically themed comedy show Louder With Crowder, but are incredibly hostile. Since they've already progressed to namecalling other tropers ("Nazis", "basement dwellers", "creepy bigots", etc.) and started editing the page to unilaterally purge it of content they deem unacceptable, they probably need a cooldown period. "Community resolution" doesn't mean "My way or the highway".
Edited by Morgenthaleropen Creator page on questionable persons
So I recently found out that we are hosting a creators page on Emily Youcis. That woman is one of THE most prolific members of the Alt-Right. She is an anti-semite, a white nationalist, a Female Misogynist and a proud, self-described Nazi. I mean if you really wanna know (and I advise you not to), you can check her out on the racist Twitter equivalent Gab and see what kind of twisted things she espouses. I already saw in the history that, in the past, the page was open about her political affiliation, but that it got cut out and locked. I submitted her page for cutting yesterday, but it got denied. Do we really want to give a person like that a (indirect) plattform here? Would we lose anything of merit if we'd cut her page? I mean, we cut Alex Jones too.
Edited by ForenperseropenPossible slut shaming and misogny
So uh this is weird. The troper Little Eagle wrote several kinda offensive diatribes on Ethical Slut
. These are there edits (What they wrote is bolded)
The concept of Ethical Slut is a gender neutral one: The idea that only women can be sluts is a Double Standard, Double Standard (except it would only be a double standard if men and women were the same in every way and women sluts were still reviled more than male sluts. Since men and women sex (semen in womb, penis in vagina) are differnt, it cannot be a Double Standard), and the idea that being a slut would be a bad thing reeks of moralism (except for the diseases, lack of self-respect, irresponsibility, lack of self-control, lack of commitment, and all those other important details that make up being a responsible, respectable member of society)
Of course, it would be easier to find a male character as Ethical Slut than a female, because DoubleStandard.Double Standard (actually it's because women get angry when female characters are ethical sluts since they find being sluts viewed favorably and perversion to be offensive. Like most people. Where as men mostly just don't care and don't get offended and enjoy a male character defending against abuse, as do female audiences.).
Isnt this whole moral diatribe that they wrote the exact opposite of what an Ethical Slut is . What they wrote is also kinda offensive with the whole men and woman are different argument using sexual organs as well as ironically enough being actual Slut-Shaming
Edited by miraculousopenNeed Mediation
Hi, guys. On the Transgender Fetishization discussion page
, Tropers.Nebulous Violet seems determined to remove any reference to the idea that the trope can be received or portrayed positively, because it's a (historically negative) stereotype of trans people.
To save time here, I'll just copy the summary of disagreements I had:
- You believe that just because the trope Positive Discrimination has "positive" in the name that it's supposed to be seen as good. As I keep repeatedly saying, that is not true. Read the description of the trope.
- You are disregarding the golden rule of Tropes Are Tools. Tropes, even if they are historically negative or call attention to a "flaw" in a work, cannot be treated as inherently bad on this wiki. We must portray the trope itself as neutral, and only trope any negatives if those negatives are evident in the work itself.
open SkidTroper making deliberately misogynistic edits on contentious pages.
It has been brought to my attention that SkidTroper has been making a considerable number of edits that show a bias towards the Men's Rights Movement, but with a slant that is openly hateful towards in particular feminism, but also towards women in general. This behavior is not supported by the wiki. Not only this, but when faced with anything but positive responses (literally doing nothing enrages him) he is openly confrontational and claims to be singled out and that people want to suppress/oppress him. There are also concerns that he is spreading falsehoods regarding atheism, Christianity and what he sees as "anti-Christian".
Here
is a link to the 2013 "The wiki has a feminist bias" thread that was resolved, thus long before Skid Troper ever made an appearance there had been conceited efforts to prevent any bias, as well as explaining to the "concerned" troper at the time that feminism isn't misandrist to no avail. Oh, and his grammar is terrible.
Below are some particularly bad edits of Skid Troper's I've singled out for inspection. I'd also cast a cautious eye on his troper page — particularly where he says he has unrelenting views on Christianity, the strong opinions he holds about how characters and beliefs "should be" presented in works, the view of himself as a "real man" (i.e. tough and outdoorsy and always morally right, according to the entry it's linked to), the fact he applies Perverse Sexual Lust to himself, and, for completeness sake, the claim to Aspergers Syndrome in how, in fairness, he may not know that he is doing something wrong and we are unlikely to be able to convince him that he could change his editing behavior.
- From the Discarded Men's Rights Activism TLP
:
- the Useful Notes for Feminism allows for a discussion of the controversial term "Patriarchy" despite the fact that it gets overused, sometimes to the point of being misandrist
- I do not care whether or not I'm liked here and will not back down from making this just because some people don't like it
- keep in mind any attempts at page blanking or vandalism will be undone
- no one gave suggestions on how to make it neutral other than asking me to remove all mention of the Red Pill, the Manosphere and some of the terms; that is not making it neutral, that is suppressing facts (facts meaning, these are commonly held views in the Manosphere). To me, that comes across less as "keep the text neutral" and more "I disagree with these things so much I want them censored" (as for WHY people want those censored, I don't know, but given the dim reception this trope had I've got some suspicions).
- My draft has been singled out, that's why it's in the "Nuked" section [...] There has been widespread media censorship for anything that challenges a leftist narrative <— in particular, this definitely shows the self-important attitude that is a common feature of misogynistic men.
- The Red Pill and its YMMV page.
- I will say that this is a work page and so may exist. However, the description is currently very short and alludes to (though does not say outright) that feminists should convert to MRA and "question [their] views on gender, power, and privilege".
- Generally bad grammar and phrasing, but the main issue really is the promotion of MRA over feminism.
- Nothing against MRA, except for the fact that this troper seems to be describing it not as "equal rights for men" and instead as "feminists oppress men".
- Acceptable Religious Targets: history
- Edit warring about Scientology
- Adding a lot of very biased and unproven information on atheism and communism vs. religion.
- Changed:
- to
- Deleted:
- But kept the statement that follows it, which is a lot more negative without the above context:
- And a lot more, but I don't want to overload this.
- YMMV.Mass Effect Andromeda
- Edit warring (I think?) about religious allegories in the game, even though it was taken to discussion and his edits reverted by consensus.
- Added the (incorrectly indented) below entry about mild representations of Nazis being anvilicious (Nazi sympathizing?)
- And this: (given the kett's Nazi and religious parallels and the historical targets of left-wing politics)
- Literally every mention of religion, Nazis, fanaticism, and political targets on the page was added by him.
- Just, completely unilaterally rewrote Knight Templar.
Edited by lakingsif
openUnintentionallyUnsympathetic miuse and Scrappy misuse. Videogame
Someone added this to the Fire Emblem Fates ymmv page:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: The reception of Peri was mixed, but mostly negative for this reason. They attempted to make her a Sympathetic Murderer, but at the same time didn't do enough to actually make her sympathetic for most people. Her backstory that set her up to be this way is briefly summarized in one of her supports and barely acknowledged at all otherwise, her positive traits just aren't enough to redeem her for being a serial killer, almost all of her Character Development is mentioned in her endings to have taken place after the game is over, and most of her darkest aspects are Played for Laughs in ways that feel out of place in the game and leave much of the audience more uncomfortable than amused. This also has the side effect of making Xander look kind of clueless to some people, since there is very little indication that he's even aware of the sorts of things Peri does, despite Peri herself seeing nothing wrong with it, not trying at all to hide it, and talking openly about it to almost everyone.
I removed it and cited that this was someone blantly trying to scapegoat Peri as a scrappy using this, citing that this person was ignoring several aspects of the character. This was done by Gravityman. Two days later, user bigbossdiego readded it, and also added her as a scrappy, which is something that has been done before and has been continually cited as not being a valid entry.
They also said this: "A character having fans does not, I repeat, does not preclude them from this status. Peri is hated by the fans to an almost absurd degree. There are entire reddit threads about how much the fandom hates her (https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/7moa1p/hated_characters_peri/)
. The removal of her Scrappy status was also unwarranted as well in light of this information. I also dislike the entry on Never Live It Down for the reason that it both downplays the problems with picking Peri as a retainer, and ignores the issues with Xander's own justifications for it. If you want to discuss this further, please respond to my post in the discussion page."
Since this is clearly just trying to bash a Base-Breaking Character, I am going to remove it, especially since using places like reddit is not allowed as a source. Want to get opinions as well so this doesn't become an issue again.
- Edit: Also, not sure if this is true, but I believe this qualifies as an edit war on the second users part, but I'm not sure.
openSingle Issue Wonk Review on My Little Pony Equestria Girls: Forgotten Friendship
While JJHIL 325 does have valid points regarding the issue, it's clearly a rant about the issue within the movie and not an actual review of the movie itself. They should have posted in the proper forums instead.
openHeadscratchers pages for not yet released works Film
Is it right that we have Headscratchers pages for movies that have not yet been released? Someone has set one up for the Deadpool sequel and all it is is a complaint about one of the characters that will be in it. (Link: The Untitled Deadpool Sequel ) Isn't Headscratchers to answer questions about something you might not understand from a work's plot, not a demand to know why a character is in it, without knowing how the story plays out first?
On a similar note, the Headscratchers page for The Last Jedi is full of people complaining about something the film did and then not liking or accepting when they are given an answer. Can someone take a look over that, I don't trust myself enough to be impartial on that page and I don't want to end up cutting out too much or leaving in my own pet theory, if someone less involved in that fandom could take a look then I'd appreciate it.
I feel like the headscratchers pages are devolving back towards being complaint sinks like they were in the Just Bugs Me days, and that isn't good.
openStar Wars Expanded Universe Film
The Star Wars Expanded Universe page includes the theatrical Star Wars films, all of them dating back to Star Wars in 1977.
It would seem logical that the theatrical films should not be on the Franchise index for Expanded Universe. The film are base canon (or whatever you'd call that). The Expanded Universe is everything else that's grown out of the theatrical features—cartoons, radio dramas, books, comic books, the Holiday Special, blah blah blah. You can't expand something from itself.
EDIT: The movies are also in Star Wars Legends.
Edited by jamespolkopenEdit War on Fallout 76 Videogame
I'm finding myself in an edit war on Fallout 76. A troper recently put the Doomed by Canon trope on the page, stating the Vault 76's mission to rebuild America in the aftermath of the nuclear war "obviously' failed based on how much of a bombed-out hell hole the Capital Wasteland of Washington D.C. and Boston Commonwealth are 185 years later.
- Vault 76's mission to restore America is obviously doomed to fail from the start, since the east coast is still a Crapsack World 185 years later."
Here's the thing though: this game is a prequel and a spinoff from the main series, but there is literally NO MENTION of the end results of Vault 76's efforts anywhere else in the entire franchise. There's no mention that it's located in West Virginia, or anything else. There's only a computer terminal in Fallout 3 that only mentions that Vault 76 exists.
According to the Doomed by Canon's own Playing With page, if something hasn't been mentioned in the main installments, then it counts as an Averted Trope, and thus should not be mentioned.
"Averted:
- Bob wasn't mentioned in "The Main Tropes", so it doesn't matter what his fate is."
Or, to put it into context:
"Vault 76's efforts aren't mentioned in the rest of the Fallout franchise, so it doesn't matter what its fate is."
The game hasn't even come out yet. It'll be released in November, so nobody actually knows if the game's main storyline will address any actual results from the efforts of the players. To say that they failed because of the Crapsack World that previous (but further down the timeline) installments are with literally zero mention of this game is ridiculous.
Edited by DRCEQopenPotential Sockpuppet
I suspect Lord Of All could be a sockpuppet of Lemarhoffman, just like RileyBrant 20, yoyospinner17, and gothamarkhamlord
. They both:
- Talk alike, e.g. leaving "Minor edits" as an
edit reason
.
- Have edited the same page, at least when Lemarhoffman was Riley Brant 20, namely Characters.The Amazing World Of Gumball Gumball Wattersonlinks evidence #1
, evidence #2
and Characters.The Big Bang Theory Sheldon Cooperlinks evidence #1
and evidence #2
.
- Are apparently Batman fans; Lord Of All has an avatar
of the man himself with Lemarhoffman's page saying on his page that he enjoyed several works from said series.
Also, it's notable that Lord Of All's account seemed like it was created shortly after Lemarhoffman's otherwise most recent sockpuppet (Riley Brant 20) was bounced
.
I would like to hear what you all think, especially if you're a mod. (From my experience, mods are the best at figuring out whether a troper is a sockpuppet or not.)
EDIT: For the curious, I referred to Lemarhoffman as a guy because his page reveals he's that.
Edited by RandomTroper123openIs this Bowdlerization? Anime
There is a troper
who on
more than one occasion
has made edits that are solely to remove the word "queer."
Admittedly, as someone who uses the word for myself, I'm sensitive to the issue and the ridiculously new controversy around the term, but the word means something specific, and appears to be an allowed word on this wiki, so I don't believe it should simply be removed.
openPoor Grammar edits
Stardust 120 has been making edits with poor grammar and despite having previously been notified in a previous ATT, and myself via PM, still is having issues with grammar.
At this point, they may need more direct intervention.
open Other M
The Analysis page on Metroid Other M should be cut
. Or at least seriously overhauled.
To put it simply, that's not an unbiased analysis, it's an extensive review with a vested interest in "saving" the game. I went back in the history to try to find the undo point, but apparently the analysis page was created purely to host it.
This isn't the first time someone has gone out of their way to "explain away" the intense problems with Metroid: Other M and try to "clarify" how audiences who took issue with it "don't truly get it". The review itself - both on-page and the linked Lexicon Lookout review - are polite, sure, but also...wrong. They make many extrapolations that are more than generous, and they've bled out onto the other pages associated with Metroid: Other M. I'm planning on cleaning them up myself, but I don't know what to do with the Analysis page.
open Arthas456
Arthas456
has very poor grammar. Just pick any of their edits from their edit history to see for yourself (I would link some of their edits but most of their recent contributions are directed towards the Dr. Strange sequel, which I have yet to see). I sent them a grammar notifier but they haven't acknowledged it and are continuing with their current course of action.
open Complaining in Stardew Valley YMMV?
Two entries on YMMV.Stardew Valley (Anvilicious and Designated Villain) seem to be subtle complaints about the game's handling of the game's Pierre vs. Joja sidestory, since we don't see much of JojaMart and Morris. I'm wondering how to handle them?
- The game's Green Aesop is just as prevalent. Several characters will drop everything, apropos of nothing, to lecture the Farmer on how they need to be environmentally-conscious and aware of their impact on the environment. Vaguely-defined "environmental pollution" is considered to be one of Joja Corporation's many dastardly deeds, but this is never shown in-game, other than litter strewn around sewage outlets, most of which probably came from the town's inhabitants. Furthermore, none of the characters who talk about the environment are ever seen doing much to improve things, not even picking up the aforementioned-trash.
- Joja Corporation, and Morris specifically. We are assured that they are very evil and mean and probably kick puppies and kitty cats around at every opportunity, as well as typical Green Aesop-pushing, nebulously-defined environmental pollution. However, they never do anything particularly malicious on-screen. The biggest Kick the Dog moment any Joja member gets is Morris's incredibly condescending letter to Pierre and the comically-low wages they pay their Joja Mart employees. However, many fans will argue that Pierre doesn't exactly come out of a contest-of-character smelling like a rose. Morris himself is never anything but (possibly a little bit too) polite to the Farmer, and if you do get a JojaMart membership you can still revitalize the town and valley through cold hard cash.
Just for clarity, I don't exactly think Joja count as Designated Villains when their Predatory Business tactics are why the player leaves their job with them and kicks off the game's plot. The opening shows some of their employees dead or stoned, they block off some of the mountains in the early game for a legally dubious mining operation, and paying them to revitalize the town is done solely to boost their public image (since it requires sacrificing the community center to do so).
As for the Green Aesop, it's... not as heavy as the entry implies it to be. Recycling and solar panels are seen, and there's a quest for Linus you can do that involves fishing up trash. Outside of that, its rarely brought up by the villagers, and cleaning the game's environment is entirely optional for the player.

I SWEAR I remember seeing somewhere that a character can only be an Expy of one other character, and if they're listed as being an expy of multiple other characters, the example is misuse. This led me to delete an example on Characters.My Hero Academia Izuku Midoriya which broke this rule.
This morning, I woke up to a PM from Nejiiuyn saying that I was wrong and that there's no such rule. Looking at the Expy page again, it is indeed never said that one character can't be an expy of two other characters.
Am I going crazy, or was the restriction removed recently?
Edit: I see this rule in the Expy cleanup thread
, but again, it's not on the trope page itself.
Edited by Zuxtron