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openEdit warring/possible agenda by troper in "YMMV/ShaggyAndScoobyGetAClue" Western Animation
Troper Aldrine Joseph 25 added a Vindicated by History example to Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get A Clue!, which fell into the usual "new thing is bad, so this makes bad thing from before better" trapping, regarding Velma. I deleted it alongside a justifying edit in the Audience-Alienating Era entry, since I haven't seen many Scooby-Doo fans falling back onto this series when there's dozen of other far more beloved works in the franchise that people put over Velma, such as Zombie Island, Mystery Incorporated and What's New, Scooby-Doo?.
aldrinejoseph doubled down on adding back the justifying edit to Audience-Alienating Era, calling Velma a monstrosity. I know the series is bad, but that seems way too harsh and at this point the entries seems agenda-ish, since they keep mentioning Velma while saying nothing about the series itself.
Edited by Edgar81539openWeird Edit Removal Reason Western Animation
On YMMV.Dexters Laboratory Walt K removed this entry
- Self-Fanservice:
- Dexter and Mandark get a lot of this in fanart.
- Dee Dee gets her fair share of this, especially when most artists think she'll take after her mom. It doesn't help that Dexter once described Dee Dee as "her hips a bit meaty".
they removed it
with the edit reason "inappropriate" (presumably meaning "sexualizing characters from a children’s series is inappropriate")
Whether you agree with them or not, YMMV is just troping Audience Reactions, and we’ve had other Self-Fanservice entries from kids shows. Even if it is "inappropriate" we’re just troping what fans believe. Is this ok, or should I add it back?
openThis "Does This Remind You of A" Entry in Smiling Friends Western Animation
So, there is an entry in the President Jimble section of the Smiling Friends: Clients that goes like this:
- Does This Remind You of Anything?: He pretty much combines the worst qualities and accusations of presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
- Like Trump, Jimble is a Fat Slob in an ill-fitting suit with ego-centered problems and selfish motivations, abused the "presidential alert" system, endorses a widely-condemned foreign dictator and is widely condemned by the international community and local media.
- Like Joe Biden, Jimble is a former Vice President coasting on his predecessor's goodwill, constantly making verbal gaffes during speeches, undermined by his health issues, under fire for supporting a foreign leader who's widely condemned by the international community while, at the other end, receiving extreme support from local media.
Should this be on the page since it sounds a little too political for the general characters' page (granted, the episode that features President Jimble is political, but the episode never made this distinction).
openTropes involving a group of characters Western Animation
Encanto is a large cast movie, with 13 named members of Madrigal family itself plus a large handful of named villagers. One thing I've noticed in participating in the editing surrounding Encanto trope pages is the desire to take various 3, 4, or 5 person tropes and start filling out the ranks of those tropes with the members of the large cast.
What this seems to be doing is finding characters in the cast whose personality traits match up with the requirements of the trope even though the 3, 4, or 5 characters don't actually have any scenes where they function as a group, or team or ensemble.
For example, on the character page, Julieta and her 3 daughters (Luisa, Isabela and Mirabel) are listed as a Four-Girl Ensemble. It's a case where they are all members of the same family and each character does fulfill the basic personality requirements of the trope.
However, in terms of the story being told, they are never actually shown interacting as an ensemble. Mirabel has individual scenes with the other female members of her family but, aside from breakfast/dinner scenes, the four are never shown together "just hanging".
So my question is whether this trope is truly in play in this story?
Even the Four-Girl Ensemble example acknowledges that while they fit the personality types, they don't actually function as an ensemble in the story.
There are other tropes listed on the Encanto pages with a similar weakness. Matching personality traits? Yes. But, actually being a group, team, band or ensemble? Not so much.
To me it seems that both halves of the equation need to be "Yes" for the trope to be in play but I'd like some feedback on this.
openJackpot21 edit war in Ladybug's fridge page Western Animation
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/MiraculousLadybug
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Jackpot21
Yep.
Though this time, hopefully this is a more straightforward case that won't turn into a shouting match.
So yesterday Jackpot was on the Ladybug fridge page and removed a few entries, a concept I personally find rather poor in taste. For some of the removed bits Jackpot gives a reason.
...
Alya already established herself worthy of being a heroine nor has Cholé been contrasted with the other heroes. Marinette and Adrien have had several slip ups that go ignored like Juleka, but even then that isn’t enough to say she’s a terrible liar.
...
TLDR on the first one, there are a series of fridge observations regarding Chloe B and her (fanbase aggravating) rise and fall in hero worth that compare and contrast and several of them, though not all of them, were removed by Jackpot. For example how Marinette's stress dreams in Sentibubbler where Chloe (and Cat Blanc) appeared could be because Marinette was more hurt by the Chloe fall than she lets on, or that she sees self-hypocrisy in giving Alya her miraculous full time (the latter part Jackpot keeps), and how one can contrast Alya specifically distracting Marinette's friends in another episode with a fake bad ankle, thus helping Marinette sneak off and drawing a comparison with how Chloe would act in a 'oh hey an Akuma, time to be Queen Bee' scenario in season 3 at several points. (This builds off several other fridges by several others, including myself, in contrasts with Chloe with things like her replacement's costume, the hero King Monkey and how his development contrasts with that of Queen Bee, and an entry of mine that Jackpot had deleted some time ago comparing Chloe's actions to that of the other temp heroes in one episode)
So, while I decided that my own entry on Juleka's noticeable secret identity slip ups was probably not worth fighting for, I restored most of what Jackpot had removed. The page is edited fairly often by myself and others, so these entries were all either by others or ideas I had submitted and had been edited by others into an new form over the course of other edits over the course of months (being tweaked with words and links by others to better the entry), noting to Jackpot where the Alya and Chloe comparison stuff had come from and a bit on how I don't see the problem in people having their own fridge conclusions you don't agree with.
Like people can think about stuff in the plot that isn't being said aloud that you don't necessarily agree with, and it can still be there.
So afterwards I have a bit of a spree of ideas and do a few more edit bits into Ladybug's fridge page, a few more ideas, a few expanding sentences for context, a few spelling corrections, some stuff like that.
Then comes the Edit War, where Jackpot removes a few of the same entries again. The removed entries the first and second time by Jackpot are.
...
- Trixx is in the Miracle Box when Luka rushes to retrieve Sass. It’s likely that Alya occasionally returns her Kwami to the box to throw off Shadow Moth, as was done in episodes like Hack-San.
...
Which I had expanded on after putting back with a point that she did just that to enhance the fridge argument.
...
there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or
being removed from
- As for why Chloé is in the dream, there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or it’s likely Marinette recognizes her hypocrisy in letting Alya keep the Fox Miraculous even though Shadow Moth knows her true identity while she benched Chloé for the exact same reason.
...
This entry below, which was one that, while I had created the original one, had been edited and improved by others since including Jackpot over the course of two months into the above form.
...
- Gabriel was the one to figure out a creative plan for Optigami when Nathalie was convinced it was a failure after the straightforward spying mission went nowhere. Gabriel is a designer by trade after all; he's a bit more creative than her.
...
And his other 'I had created the base idea that others had then expanded, tweaked, and improved on' entry.
...
- This episode continues Season 4's subtle contrast between Chloé's worthiness and that of other temporary wielders. When Alya sees a brewing Akuma event in episode, and Marinette requests a distraction, she immediately fakes a bad ankle to let Marinette slip away and prety much ensure she'd have no chance to use Trixx this time. Last season, Chloé took multiple Akuma attacks as a moment to be Queen Bee first and foremost.
...
This being Jackpot's argument for removing stuff I had put back.
...
This page is for pointing out certain details that aren’t addressed in the series, not for people to make their own conclusions. The entries I removed were either speculative, redundant, or are your interpretations.
...
Like...not entirely sure what the point of that is. Going 'this is a plausible reason why the Kwami was back in the box when he would otherwise not be', especially with an example of that happening in the series, feels like it covers that threshold.
Though given that four fridge entries, by multiple people adding and working on them, got removed twice in an editing sequence...more straightforward right?
openNamespace move suggestion thread? Western Animation
Hello, I have another unrelated question. I couldn't find a thread regarding possible namespace move suggestions (because I have a few, related to the medium I tagged this query as). Perhaps I just looked straight over it, in that case I apologize.
EDIT: To clarify, I couldn't find one specifically for Western Animation, no matter where I looked... Could I start one myself, or is that considered a no-no? I don't wanna make any moves without consensus, and I only wanna start such a thread if other people agree with it.
Edited by LotteVopenSpoiler Marked Late Arrival Spoiler? Western Animation
Are Late-Arrival Spoiler entries allowed to be spoiler marked? Because I just found one on Characters.Ninjago Ninja, and it seems a little weird to me (the marking, not the entry itself).
openPermission to a re-add some things from an entry of mine that's been condensed Western Animation
A while ago, I added this entry to This Image Is Not an Example:
- Intercom Villainy: The image depicts Alastor in his radio station from the "Stayed Gone" song sequence in the Hazbin Hotel episode "Radio Killed the Video Star". Point is, although Alastor is a villain, he's the Token Evil Teammate of the show's heroes rather than an enemy of them, and in context he has never used his radio system to properly talk to enemies in the usual ways implied by the trope (rather, he uses it to terrorize the inhabitants of Hell and make any feats he succeeds at known). Plus, the aforementioned song sequence involves him joining midway through "Stayed Gone" to interrupt Vox's (the enemy in context, and one of the actual antagonists) performance and curb-stomp the latter's attempt at damaging his public image, with the audience being supposed to root for Alastor rather than Vox.
Some time later, Amonimus heavily condensed
the entry for being too long when compared to other entries on the page.
- Intercom Villainy: The trope is about a villain taunting the hero from a safe location. During the scene, Alastor is a Nominal Hero, who mocks Vox, his rival and an actual villain, on public media.
I noticed that the condensed entry now lacks a link to the work page in question like most other entries on the page do (plus some important aspects regarding the trope itself), so I'd like to change it to this:
- Intercom Villainy: The trope is about a villain taunting the hero from a safe location via a remote communication system. During the scene from Hazbin Hotel, Alastor (the character pictured in the image), a Nominal Hero, mocks Vox, his rival and an actual villain, on public media, in the middle of a Quarreling Song between the two.
May I go ahead with the change? I'm asking because I had previously included the pothole in the original entry pre-condensation, and want to make it clear that I'm not intending to start an Edit War.
Edited by Inky100openPreventing an Edit War Western Animation
In What If...? S3E3 "What If... The Red Guardian Stopped the Winter Soldier?":
- I added an trope
- palm529sw removed it
thinking it doesn’t apply to characters who also died in the source material.
I know this trope can be applied if a character dies sooner than in the source material as explained in the page itself. Can I get consensus to reapply it?
Edited by MaxyGregoryyyyopenZero-context example? Western Animation
So this example caught my attention on the YMMV subpage for VeggieTales:
- Seasonal Rot: A show about talking vegetables was bound to succumb to this. Phil stated in a podcast that he noticed that the post-Jonah episodes aren't as successful (in terms of selling) as the older ones, and speculates how it's probably how the media reacts nowadays.
I think it might be a Zero-Context Example, since you'd expect the example to explain what in the show itself is demonstrating the seasonal rot. How the media reacts to it doesn't seem like it should be the explanation here. So, would it be a zero-context example?
openConsensus on Handling These Gargoyles Manhattan Clan Edits? Western Animation
Steven Alex 22 made an inaccurate change to the Characters page for the Manhattan Clan in Gargoyles, removing the reference in Antiope's entry to Antiope having been nicknamed that by the Captain of the Guard's daughter Alesand. Not only do we see it happen in the recent issue #4, it was already mentioned by Alesand back in issue #1. Therefore, it is not "All There in the Manual" since it derives from published stories and not just the script. I can't change it back myself without edit warring, since I wrote that part in the first place, so Steven Alex 22 or someone else will have to revert the change.
They also made two strange changes that turned correct grammar into incorrect grammar. In Lefty's entry, they changed "the older biological brother of Demona, whom he resembles" to "Demona's biological older brother, whom he resembles". Moving "whom he resembles" away from the name of the person Lefty resembles makes the sentence lose sense and sound awkward. In Katana's entry, they changed "she and others return from patrol moments before the sun comes up, and she immediately insists to Brooklyn on checking on their egg" to "she and others return from patrol moments before the sun comes up, she immediately insists to Brooklyn on checking on their egg". Removing the "and" makes it a run-on sentence for no apparent reason.
Edited by NOYBopenSmitty91 Western Animation
There's a troper by the name of Smitty 91 who keeps going by different usernames and posting different entries in FiM's DMoS page. It's obvious he hates the show now, but good lord, this person is persistent. I've actually been asked about his latest entry on "Fame and Misfortune" (an episode that I, myself, hate for totally different reasons than mostly everyone else), which has since been removed, and I figured I'd let you know about this. This guy needs to stop. It is my request that this person be penalized for his continued misuse of the page.
Edited by SenorCornholioopenSparkle Sparkle Sparkle Western Animation
From YMMV.Moana:
- Moana may be secretly a fan of The Nostalgia Critic (or Thomas And The Magic Railroad), as revealed by her scene in Tamatoa's cave when she's trying to get the crab's attention.note The Critic himself had to quell rumors that this was a direct reference by pointing out that Rob and Doug Walker have been fairly consistent credits in Disney movies since the pair were children.
Moana: "Sparkle, sparkle, sparkle..."
- Moana may be secretly a fan of The Nostalgia Critic (or Thomas And The Magic Railroad), as revealed by her scene in Tamatoa's cave when she's trying to get the crab's attention.note The Critic himself had to quell rumors that this was a direct reference by pointing out that Rob and Doug Walker have been fairly consistent credits in Disney movies since the pair were children.
Since Doug Walker a)didn't invent this phrase, and b)lobbied at least one hypocritical complaint against Moana, would anyone mind if I removed any reference to him from this entry, if not the whole thing?
openDo Rick & Morty count as Decoy or Supporting Protagonists? Western Animation
The user by the name of Mack Wylde keeps trying to shoehorn the following trope into the Rick and Morty page numerous times over the past few months. I delete it with a reason proving why it can't apply, so they wait a few weeks and try to sneak it back in.
- Decoy Protagonist: Sort of. The series seems to really be about the Smith's family dynamics and not just about Rick and Morty and their adventures.
- Supporting Protagonist: Rick and Morty. The series may center on their adventures but it seems to be more about their family dynamic rather than the two of them alone.
First off, the series is called Rick & Morty. Rick and Morty are the two main characters of the franchise and appear in every episode in one way or another. The overarching storyline does involve Rick's family and their own disfunctional problems from time to time, but the focus remains around Rick and Morty themselves. Rick and Morty appear in every episode, while Beth, Jerry, and Summer may not appear at all.
I already debunked the numerous attempts to throw in Decoy Protagonist because the absolute very first scene in the Pilot episode starts with Rick barging in on Morty in his room. The laconic itself proves this can't apply just by that alone.
Finally, the way it's worded isn't even sure about itself. "Seems to be" are three words that indicate there's no objectively concrete proof that it is.
I finally decided to take it here before this one-sided edit war escalates any further.
Edited by DRCEQopenTitle Question Western Animation
I was in the process of making a trope page for the Herself The Elf cartoon, but am unsure what to call it. Wikipedia lists it as The Magic of Herself the Elf or The Special Magic of Herself the Elf, the latter being its onscreen name, and while checking out its wicks other tropers listed it as just Herself the Elf, which was also the name of the toyline. Any ideas? I was thinking of just going with Herself the Elf since that's the general name of the franchise but am unsure. Thanks!
openQuestion regarding HeWhoMustNotBeSeen Western Animation
Just wondering,does the trope apply if the character is not explicitly named by any of the characters.but their image and the presence is there?
The example I was thinking of adding was White Diamond from Steven Universe since they've never been named in the show itself but their image has shown up in the show.
Edited by UltimatumopenFanfic on main page Western Animation
On the YMMV page
for Miraculous Ladybug, somebody added a Broken Base entry that's specifically about a popular kind of Revenge Fic. In other words, it's not about the series Miraculous Ladybug itself. On the other hand, it can't be listed on a fanfic's work page since it's not about one specific fanfic but rather a popular subgenre.
So is it kosher to list an entry about a subgenre on the main work's page?
openNot a Clueless Aesop? Western Animation
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"
- Clueless Aesop: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically asks Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a Double Aesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
This seems more like a Broken Aesop, since Clueless Aesop is when a show fumbles in teaching harsh subject matter. Pretty sure "listen to your friends" isn't controversial. It also just seems like it's arguing with itself with the Double Aesop paragraph.
Also posted this here
, but got no response.
openEgregious Unintentionally Sympathetic example? Western Animation
- Applejack in "Hearthbreakers". The whole episode is supposed to be about her learning that she was being too closed minded about Pinkie's family and their Hearth Warming traditions, to the point where even her own family worn her that she shouldn't be interfering. However this glosses over the fact that the Pie family can easily be accused of the exact same thing, seeming to expect the Apples to follow their traditions without question and never allowing an alternative point of view. In fact, Applejack was the only one who did try and embrace the other's way, forcing herself to eat their rock soup when the rest of her family only complained.
This reads like a disguised Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry. It dosen't even tell us how Applejack ends up being sympathetic, just that everyone else around her isn't.

A lot of the video examples for Batman Beyond specifically come from Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. However, the trope page for Return of the Joker does not itself have video examples. Shouldn't the videos be attributed to Return of the Joker instead of/in addition to the main series?