Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
open Potential Bias in Avatar pages? Western Animation
Okay, so K 2 Misfit has made two edits on Avatar pages that I find somewhat questionable. The first is on the YMMV page, under Franchise Original Sin :
And the second is under Fandom-Specific Plot:
Both seem to be editorializing somewhat. Now, in regards to the former, that's probably going to happen at least a little on the YMMV pages, but I still think they ought to reflect some sort of consensus, whereas this mentions a lot of specific issues that seem to be the troper's person opinions framed as a generally accepted "this is the way it should have been". Still, this is the YMMV page, so maybe I should be more lenient when it comes to opinions, but at least some of it seems like a stretch.
As for the latter entry, it seems to be going in a YMMV direction on a page that is not that. Certainly, a mention of fics that wish to further explore queer issues in the verse is perfectly fine, even mentioning that many do not feel that it was explored as well as it could be, but I don't think the somewhat accusatory tone of the entry is necessary. I think this entry deserves to stay, but it ought to be rewritten somewhat.
Thoughts?
openNo Edit Reason Western Animation
The four most recent edits of https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=cristian1234
have just been deletions without any edit reasons which I would have just contented myself on sending them a message if two of those edits weren't big edits and all of them didn't seem to have a discernible reason behind it.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.DarkwingDuck
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.DuckTales2017
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Funny.DuckTales2017Season3#edit27064396
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Funny.Ducktales2017Season2#edit27064636
openYMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017 Western Animation
SenorCornholio made very long entries to the YMMV page for the G4 MLP movie about They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot by outlining an entire alternate scenario for the movie/final battle, which i don't think is how that trope works, as well as a very long edit about Twilight's friends sucking with a lot of potholes.
"** The fact that Twilight's magic is completely limited in this movie ends up resulting in plenty of scenes where it could have helped them out, but didn't. As an example, after Twilight's screwing everything up and chewing out her friends results in her being captured, she could have stayed long enough to listen to Tempest Shadow's Villain Song, realized she failed friendship, used one of her various self-inflicted spells to escape (notice how the cage she's in only resists magic, but never prevents it), and declares that she'll save Tempest from what she became, all in time to meet up with her friends for the Final Battle, which also would have led to her realizing that friendship really did bring everyone together. It could have also resulted in a climactic battle with Tempest where Twilight tries to convince her that she's better than she thinks she is, leading to a Heel–Face Turn on her part like it does in the movie proper. But because she doesn't, she ends up as the Damsel in Distress that needs to be saved, and as an added kick in the teeth, her magic is stolen so she can't even try fighting anyway."
"** The Mane Five aside of Twilight can be seen as this, namely during their argument scene. Most of them did virtually nothing to help the situation involving Tempest Shadow and the Storm King get any better, either providing seemingly nothing or outright making the situation worse like with Rainbow Dash's impulsive Sonic Rainboom on Celaeno's ship, and especially Pinkie Pie's antics in Klugetown. And what's more is that they're exceptionally tongue-in-cheek about their screw-ups, like ruining several anthropomorphic creatures' homes and nearly getting five pirates and a cat man killed isn't a big deal. This leads to Twilight attempting to steal the Pearl of Transformation and arguing with her friends which, to be fair, the argument does make a point about how both Twilight and her friends messed up. However, after Twilight says her Wham Line, the five of them head off to leave Twilight alone, still fully aware that Tempest Shadow is after her, and only after she's captured do they go back to caring about her. When Twilight told Pinkie she'd be better off with without friends like them, maybe there was more truth to that statement than the writing staff realized."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017
In general the page also has stuff like "* What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: Between the multiple examples of Getting Crap Past the Radar, a Downer Beginning with scary petrification, an Implied Death Threat, a Not-So-Safe Harbor where the heroes were almost Made a Slave, a depressing sequence of Canterlot's population enslaved, drowning (Robbie Rotten lampshades it here
), a severe Plot-Mandated Friendship Failure, and a Family-Unfriendly Disney Villain Death, it's easy for parents to wonder if this movie is appropriate for young children. Then at the same time, the show has done the same concepts many times before and still managed to hold a TV-Y rating, and the movie still manages to be as simple and sugary as well, so once again it all comes down to one's personal interpretation." which contradicts itself multiple times.
openMLPFIM Season 9 Fridge Horror Western Animation
Didn't know if I should ask this on the forum or here. Spoiler warning as this involves a plot twist for season 9 of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.
Given that "Grogar" turned out to be a fake, should the following Fridge Horror entries about him be cut:
- Grogar is powerful enough to make Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow, all top tier season-ender villains themselves, AFRAID... and he's NOT at full power yet!
- Considering how powerful Grogar is without his bell, the villain trio deciding to betray him by stealing the bell for themselves might be the only reason why Equestria isn't flattened to the ground.
- Instead of giving Grogar his bell, Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy lie to him and claim they were unable to retrieve it. Grogar seems furious at this, but he has shown in the past to be able to view previous events. What if he finds out about their lie later, or already knows about it and has plans to deal with his traitors later?
- Grogar makes it very clear that, even in his weakened state, he has far more power than the three of them combined. With the bell still there as far as he knows, what's stopping him from trying to go get it himself now that the others have at least learned to cooperate, only to find it missing?
- With the amount of power Grogar would have gained upon getting his Bewitching Bell back, who's to say he wouldn't have decided he doesn't need the others anymore? Even if he had other plans for them initially, he's far more likely to decide that should he learn of their betrayal.
openEdit War on The Dragon Prince Western Animation
There is a potential edit war brewing on The Dragon Prince YMMV page.
Antidragon has added these two points: Strawman Has a Point:
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- Furthermore, said ballistas prove to be too inaccurate to hit the dragon; the town offered no threat to it whatsoever and nothing was preventing it from simply flying away. It's subsiqent attack seemed more a matter of spite than legitimate self defense, yet Soren still accepts the blame for the resulting damage.
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- When Soren provokes the Dragon in S2 E7 by firing a ballista at it, said ballista proves to be no threat to the beast and nothing was preventing it from flying away. When it subsequently sets the town on fire, the show (and even Soren himself) treat the resulting havoc as his own fault, even though said dragon was apparently acting out of spite rather than self defense.
They were removed by Mr. Death and then Antidragon added them back.
openDisputing recent deletion (Invincible 2021: Spoilers) Western Animation
I had recently added the following example to the YMMV page of Invincible (2021):
- What An Idiot: Despite being shown to be a very competent team of heroes, several members of the Guardians of the Globe grab the Idiot Ball hard during their fight with Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: The first thing Red Rush does when the fight starts is shove Immortal out of the way of Omni-Man’s sneak attack, saving Immortal’s life. Then when Omni-Man continues to attack, Red Rush counters Omni-Man’s speed by moving his teammates out of the way at the last second, frustrating Omni-Man.
- [[spoiler: Darkwing functions as the team’s Batman Expy, using stealth, gadgets, skill and intelligence to take out his opponents. He’s also just seen Omni-Man murder Red Rush.
These additions were deleted with the following justification:
My Little Xero: Simply doesn't fit, as we barely know anything about the character before their deaths, claiming that they're holding the Idiot Ball is simply inaccurate as we need to know their typical behavior to call it as such, in addition as we see when the Guardians fight the Mauler Twins, the tactics used the by the characters to fight Omni-Man are pretty much the same so this
Naturally, I disagree. For one thing, the part of editing reason is inaccurate, as the tactics used by the mentioned characters in a previous fight are different from the ones they used vs Omni-Man. Against the Mauler Twins (who are much weaker than Omni-Man), Darkwing actually maintained distance, uses his weapons effectively and did not try to drop kick either of them. Likewise, Red Rush only engages the Mauler Twins (who are both much slower than Omni-Man) in melee when Green Ghost immobilizes them. So in both instances, the heroes tactics were different in their fight with Omni-Man than they were with the Mauler Twins.
Beyond them simply not being as effective as before, the tactics in both cases are suicidally stupid. Literally so since it gets them both killed (along with other members of their team), and I feel What an Idiot was made for moments of that kind of stupidity, regardless of how little we might know about the characters in general.
Furthermore, a lack of knowledge of a character does not invalidate the use of What An Idiot listings. Taken directly from the What An Idiot page:
"Because most viewers have basic common sense, one would usually expect the same from characters on TV shows. Any negative deviation from such usually prompts a Face Palm and the comment "What an idiot!" or similar, hence the entry name."
The page also mentions that some characters are supposed to be idiots, but goes on to say how that does not invalidate including them in What An Idiot entries. It merely asks that you summarize such moments rather than list them all.
If it's specifically the inclusion of the Idiot Ball trope that makes this inaccurate, I can remove it. I have ZERO intentions of getting into any kind of an editing war, so I'd like other opinions on the matter, to make sure I'm not in the wrong or anything before I take any additional steps.
Edited by Ares101openFinding Nemo and Overprotective Dad Western Animation
I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to ask. My doubt isn't about the entry itself or its usage, but the correctness of this entry in YMMV.Finding Nemo that I find rather excessive:
- "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny:
- Marlin is the Trope Codifier of the Overprotective Dad trope mostly found in Western Animation. This has resulted in many other overprotective dads, like Dracula, Samson and Manny being seen as rip-offs of him.
open Omega Character Page Western Animation
I would like to argue against the inclusion of Ambiguous Gender Identity on the official character page for Omega of The Bad Batch. Throughout the entire show she has been presented as female and identified as such by other characters. She was identified as female in the very first episode by Tech who specifically said that he was looking at her DNA. In the episode "Bounty Lost" Tech explains that she has unaltered Jango DNA. Tech referred to the alterations in question as rapid aging, and increased obediance. Furthermore this trope implies that Omega herself is unsure what her gender is, when she has been presenting herself as female throughout the entire show. She did not correct Cad Bane when he referred to her as "little lady" nor did she do it to anyone else that referred to her as a girl. The point here is that there is no ambiguity that Omega sees herself as female regardless if she was born that way or not. There is absolutely no problem with fan interpretations of her as transgender but it should be delegated to the YMMV page.
openToo Much on The Millennium Age of Animation? Western Animation
On the UsefulNotes.The Millennium Age Of Animation page, TimonAndPumbaa623
has been adding numerous series/movies/specials to the page's list of "Series/Films associated with this era", since 2021 and especially recently, treating it like an index of anything that's come out since the Turn of the Millennium. While the folder itself admits the list is incomplete, it's added a lot of bloat to an already long page, approaching 400,000 . And while "associated with the era" is a somewhat nebulous and subjective term, I'm questioning if such works as CJ the DJ or Little Angels: The Brightest Christmas are notable enough for such a list if it intends to inform people.
All that said, I'm not comfortable with just making a unilateral page change all by myself, so are there any further opinions on this?
openRaya and the Last Dragon - Villain has a Point Western Animation
This has been added and removed by various tropers, the most recent of which is rva98014:
- Villain Has a Point: Downplayed. Namaari isn't a villain so much as she is the story's antagonist, but towards the climax, she's not wrong when she soberly points out two things. First, she tells Raya that while Sisu was the bigger person and bothered to trust Namaari, the disasterous outcome happened because Raya didn't trust Sisu's judgement nor anyone else. Second, although Namaari bringing a crossbow played a part in Sisu's Disney Death, Raya causing the misfire technically makes it Raya's fault as well.
For some context, the hero accidentally causes a crossbow bolt to kill a supporting character who could have saved the world. The person who she made accidentally shoot said character blames her, and the animation supports this.
Can we get a consensus, here? For the record, I really do think it was solely Namaari's fault, but it's not supported in the movie itself, and Word of God hasn't said anything on if both characters were in the right/wrong.
Edited by FishiousRendopenWall of Text entry Western Animation
The YMMV page for "The Ending of the End, Part 2" has this very long entry under Draco in Leather Pants:
- All three of the villains received this status in spades for their punishment at the end of the episode.
- Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow being turned to stone as punishments caused backlash by defenders, saying that they didn't deserve such a punishment due to being forced by Discord as Grogar to commit said actions, and they weren't being given a chance by the heroes to turn over a new leaf throughout the episode and the previous one. What is largely ignored is the fact that what the villains did to Equestria was what they've always wanted to do ever since they appeared in the show, they were mainly forced by Discord to work together as a team instead of individuals to make their plans succeed, and they have stated and shown more than once that they are not interested in friendship or reforming themselves like when Chrysalis turned down Starlight's offer of reformation at the end of To Where and Back Again. And on the subject of the villains' punishments, they not only tried to murder the Mane Six and the other heroes, but also destroy everything that made Equestria what it was which included dividing the three pony tribes against one and other, which as a result almost made everything that the Mane Six accomplished in the entire series be All for Nothing. And considering that they almost came close with succeeding at destroying Equestria and the heroes and even presumably even creating a forever bad memory that the population of Equestria won't be forgetting for a long time, imprisoning the villains in stone would be for the best to prevent a tragedy like that from happening again.
- Cozy Glow was hit with this the hardest out of the three villains. Defenders felt she did not deserve the same fate as Tirek and Chrysalis, due to simply being a child and saying she could have been given a lesser sentence to serve her time, and demonizing Celestia, Luna, and Discord for doing it to her. This is despite the fact that Cozy was well aware of what she was doing the entire time, and her actions were still as bad as Tirek and Chrysalis since her actions to drain the magic in Equestria and claim it as her own was kind of the same plan as Tirek's. She has even proudly called herself a villain and shows no remorse for any of her actions, and in fact actively enjoys it.
The first entry is overly long and keeps re-hashing the same points, and I'm not sure if it even fits, since it's mostly just saying that fans thought the punishment was harsh. The second entry is redundant with the first, only focusing more on Cozy Glow specifically. I've brought this up on the Wall of Text cleanup thread twice but been ignored both times.
Edited by Javertshark13openNo Title Western Animation
Hi!
I was reading the Recap for Transformers Animated S1 Ep 13 "Megatron Rising Part 1", & I don't know about anyone else, but the example for "Hypocrite" sounds a lot more like "Ungrateful Bastard", with Sari (in her quote), & then Bumblebee (defending her after she ran off), calling Optimus this.
Now, Optimus blowing up at his team for most, if not all, the same actions he himself took that stranded them on Earth to begin with, would be a better example for "Hypocrite".
openDubious Trope Namers Western Animation
TropeNamers.The Simpsons lists Glove Slap and The Dog Was the Mastermind. Glove Slap seems like too generic a term to be named by The Simpsons, while TropeNamers.Video Games lists Silent Hill 2 as the trope namer. The Dog Was the Mastermind page itself says in the description that the Silent Hill 2 joke ending is the Trope Namer in the description and the video games folder, while also saying in the Western Animation folder that the trope is named after the Simpsons episode "Beyond Blunderdome". "Beyond Blunderdome" aired in 1999, while Silent Hill 2 came out in 2001. SimCity is also listed as the Trope Namer for Not in My Backyard!, while according to Wikipedia, the term dates back to at least 1980.
openArthur Western Animation
WJTaylor4, who frequently edits the YMMV.Arthur page really, really, really hates D.W. (and calls Arthur's parents by their first names even though they're rarely said in-show). Other oddities include a 'fandom rivalry' segment that's just fans of one thing picking on other fans. Plus grammar/spelling errors.
"Creator's Pet: Jane and David; being an educational 'toon, they're the "large and in charge" parents with no one calling them out for letting D.W. torment Arthur most of the time."
Fandom Rivalry: Ever since the rights to producing the show changed hands from Cookie Jar to Nine Story, the bronies have been picking on it and its fans. It appears that there are two groups of haters here- one being bitter about how Marc Brown chose to terminate Cookie Jar's rights and grant the rights to Nine Story instead of transferring the production rights to DHX (which is incidentally the company behind Fi M) when DHX bought up Cookie Jar, and another just sees Arthur as yet another show competing with Fi M for awards. It's easy to weed them out: those who dismiss Arthur for "not being as good since it changed production companies" fall into the former, while those that're downright condescending to the show (saying things like "You're/They're still making the show?" in a sarcastic tone) belong to the latter. "
" D.W.'s constant screaming and whining when getting on Arthur's case or when she's demanding something from others tends to get old pretty fast. D.W.'s voice in general even when she's not whining. "
"D.W. getting punched by Arthur and latere getting a swing smashed into her face, largely due to her being such an unlikable brat."
" D.W. throws a tremendous tantrum in "Arthur's Perfect Christmas" when she doesn't get the toy she wanted for Christmas, and spends several minutes screaming. It's honestly quite embarrassing especially since Dave and Jane don't do anything to stop their daughter. "
" The Tibble Twins are basically gender bender versions of D.W. and like D.W. they have no redeeming qualitiesJ who never get punished, and they're constantly roughhousing or arguing with each other."
" Take That, Scrappy!: DW finally getting punched out by Arthur in "Arthur's Big Hit". Also DW getting her face smashed in with swings by the Tibble twins in Attack of the Turbo Tibbles. "
" Unintentionally Unsympathetic: DW, in "Arthur's Big Hit" and in many, many others. Even in the episodes where she has some justifiable reason for being bratty, she tends to take it so far that it's impossible to sympathize with her. This is not made better by all the times she doesn't have an excuse, and just felt like being irritating - it makes her seem less like she's acting up because of the issue at hand and more like her already-horrible behavior is just being exacerbated by said issue. More than a few viewers cheered when the Tibble twins hit D.W. in the face with their swings in "Attack of the Turbo Tibbles", if only because she finally suffered some Laser-Guided Karma for all the crap she had pulled previously in the series. A number of viewers also cheered when Arthur punched D.W. for harassing him and then trashing his model plane in the aforementioned Arthur's Big Hit where in addition to being her usual annoying self she was stupid enough to think the model was a toy that could fly. It really says a lot for what a repulsive character DW is that even when she's attacked by a pair twins who are basically male versions of her the viewers actually cheer for the boys to rough her up. It also says a lot for just how lacking the boys are in redeeming qualities that their high point in the series is physically attacking a young girl the audience is expected to sympathize with but is so unlikable and repulsive that the boys violent actions against her are cheered and relished by the audience instead of being viewed as reprehensible."
Edited by lalalei2001openEdit War in the Code Lyoko Characters page. Western Animation
Georgie Enkoom listed an example of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse in the Code Lyoko page, where he describes a character that tries to be The Atoner, but is rejected by the other characters. I deleted it due to mis-use, as the situation described is actually Heel–Face Door-Slam, and the entry itself has many points that seem to be based on speculation. However, Georgie almost immediately added it back with no edit reason whatsoever, and worse, he undid another one of my edits where I explain/hide a few Zero Context Examples, apparently out of spite.
It should also be noted that his edits
have some basic grammar errors. A few of his latest ones include:
"As a good guy, he dishes one to nine Creepers, who doesn't even touches him."
"He can throw his swords, but it doesn't guarantees that it will always hit."
Some of his other edits are also blanket statements:
"Half the Man He Used to Be: One of his preferred methods to devirtualize the Lyoko-warriors."
"Impaled with Extreme Prejudice: see Half the Man He Used to Be above."
I have fixed some of these, but given his reaction to my first edit, I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict escalated.
Edited by TantaMontyopenThe Simpsons Memetic Mutation Cleanup Western Animation
I'm looking at The Simpsons and I'm seeing that while all of the entries have notes next to them now, they still mostly consist of quotes with the explanation describing where they came from, rather than how they're actually memeworthy. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the show in detail to clean it up myself, unfortunately. I can verify from my own experience as a non-fan which quotes are definitely memeworthy, however.
Edited by AlleyOopopenSome anvils needed to be dropped Western Animation
Are these examples on the YMMV.Jem page examples of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped? The Jem pages in general have a lot of Weasel Words.
"**In Video Wars, Video explains that her career as a filmmaker is quite difficult, since she has to constantly work hard at maintaining her success. Despite everything, she doesn't give up on it and loves her work. This wasn't presented in an over-the-top, ridiculous sort of aesop, nor was it even the main message of the episode, but it acts as a nice way to tell kids that having careers and jobs are never easy, but if you love what you do and keep at it, it's all worth it. The show itself seems to be an example of that message; disregarding the animation, the staff obviously put a lot of effort into the characters and gave them distinct personalities, as well as working hard on the writing, music and fashion (seriously, though; how often do you see cartoon characters in different outfits? And if so, how many are so intricately designed?)
"**With the exception of Eric Raymond, Techrat, and Zipper, the writers made it a point that neither the Misfits or the Stingers were pure evil and had their soft sides (especially Stormer), and that there was a reason why they were like that. The Holograms weren't pure and had their flaws. This seems to say that people have multiple aspects to their personalities, and that even so-called perfect people have their hang-ups, and the worst offender might not be so bad given the chance. "
Edited by lalalei2001openResistance episodes Western Animation
Hi. Not that long ago, I asked for several Star Wars Resistance recap pages to be cut as they appeared to be the wrong episode number (The Children from Tehar, Signal from Sector Six, Synara's Score, The Platform Classic). However, more recent information has come to light that the initial episode numbers were correct, and so I find myself in the awkward position of requesting that the pages be able to be recreated.
Here ([1]
, [2]
, [3]
, [4]
) are the relevant Wookieepedia articles of the episodes in question, with links to the recently released information.
openEdit War Western Animation
NWolfman
added the following example to Trivia.Toy Story:
- Old Shame: Not the film itself by any means, but the creators have acknowledged just how poorly the computer graphics have aged, going as far as to call it their "ugliest film."
Later JameyGamer
added an additional sentence to it containing a Circular Link within the example:
- Old Shame: Not the film itself by any means, but the creators have acknowledged just how poorly the computer graphics have aged, going as far as to call it their "ugliest film." Elsewhere, the infamous "Black Friday" reel that Lasseter screened for Katzenberg of course became an instant Old Shame to John.
N Wolfman later re-wrote the example like so:
- Old Shame: Not the film itself by any means, but the creators have acknowledged just how poorly the computer graphics have aged, going as far as to call it their "ugliest film." As for the actual film, there's the norotious "Black Friday" cut John Lasserer and co. made to appease Jeff Katzenberg.
And recently Jamey Gamer has changed it back:
- Old Shame: Not the film itself by any means, but the creators have acknowledged just how poorly the computer graphics have aged, going as far as to call it their "ugliest film. "" Elsewhere, the infamous "Black Friday" reel that Lasseter screened for Katzenberg of course became an instant Old Shame to John.

This page
of Teen Titans Go!, unsurprisingly has a lot of complaining in it. I was gonna clean it myself, but I can't even tell what examples should remain at this point.