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openNot sure this should have been removed. Videogame
I recently added an edit for Fourth Wall Myopia on Dragon Age: The Veilguard, that was removed:
- Dragon Age: The Veilguard: This is a major factor to Taash's infamous confrontation with their mother in their personal quest coming off as Unintentionally Unsympathetic to audiences, even though anyone familiar with such issues would recognize the ethos, logos and pathos all hold up. Taash's grievances were on paper entirely understandable; they were emotionally neglected by their mother for most of their life, and one of Taash's fundamental questions is how non-binary characters would even exist in a religion like the Qun. Suffice to say, not well at all; the Qun are adamant that the role you play is the one you're born in and will die in, and are likewise adamant that men and women are assigned to strict gender roles, and while this means that the Qun are surprisingly okay with trans people, they don't even consider non-binary people to even exist. This is a sentiment that several trans people go through when explaining their gender identity to their own parents, and Taash was clearly meant to emulate that with them finding it difficult to keep themselves composed over the matter as their mother doesn't even recognize why Taash made this choice and even insinuates that Rook had a reason for "making her like this". Unfortunately, due to Taash taking an overly defensive tone and their mother being calm by comparison, it comes off to many unfamiliar with such a dilemma that Taash's mother was being unfairly railed on by her child, despite the context making total sense within the universe. This leads to a scene that would otherwise be poignant being undercut by an awkward execution, even when the details of the scene in question make total sense on paper versus how it impresses on itself in practice.
The given reason for the removal was that "this trope is when character's actions make sense in-universe because they don't know something that the viewers do and thus the latter complain that the scene is irrational. In this case, it's not about having more knowledge of the characters (to the point the entry even says that viewers don't know certain elements, quite the opposite); plus, one complaint about taash's reaction is that it's very immature for their age, while it could've been more understandable if they were a teenager." Except that the edit itself notes that the execution is awkward and immature-sounding, and last I checked, the actual trope is that viewers do not realize that the plot is not known to the characters, or that they are in a story. In particular, that the Qun is very strict about gender roles, and so Taash being nonbinary does cause a breakdown in social roles.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I'm sincerely wondering.
Edited by LelielopenCan a Continuity Nod qualify as a Mythology Gag at the same time? Videogame
Probably a stupid question, but, what the title says. This is a super specific situation I'm dealing with: I'm thinking of editing a page that's about the second game in a series that was originally self-contained but contained a cameo of the Big Bad from a previous game made by the same developer, before being adopted as part of a series later on as a Non-Linear Sequel.
Can this be considered both a Continuity Nod as well as a Mythology Gag, due to the circumstances? The page I previously made and edited currently lists it as a Mythology Gag when it really should be considered a Continuity Nod (a mistake from the days where I had way less experience as a troper), but can I retroactively slot the Continuity Nod in while explaining that it was originally the latter before later games made it into the former? Or should I Take a Third Option and just replace Mythology Gag with Continuity Nod and call it a day?
openWhat to do with [=CN=] servers being ahead of global given potential spoiler warnings Videogame
There is a concern I have with regards to potential spoilers in Reverse: 1999 due to CN servers being two patches ahead of global.
I am of the general opinion that, because of how critical R1999 is when it comes to its narrative driven approach, publicly listing CN characters ahead of global will, in itself be highly spoilery (i.e. Moldir being playable is in itself, incredibly spoiler heavy for global) and may lead to the potential snowball effect of editors just outright listing lore-heavy spoiler tropes way ahead of what global players are expecting.
While I have heard that other gacha pages like GFO and Arknights have their CN listed characters, I don't think Reverse should follow what these other communities do with regards to their CN stuff.
Spoilers is a hazard in R1999 and there is a large sub-set of R1999 players who actively want to avoid all CN news. If I was a unassuming global player that would like to read the character pages of Reverse, I would have zero warning that CN characters alongside potential CN spoilers would appear once I scroll down (assuming we go ahead with publicly listing the CN stuff). Given that there is no warning in the character pages of R1999, what can we do?
I prefer just hiding all CN stuff until global catches up to that patch. Nevertheless, I would like some advice or consensus here on what to do with this and how to construct these pages if needed.
openPokemon's fanon page Videogame
bunny001 changed some examples. Usually the fanon pages are pretty up-for-grabs since fanon is so fluid and changes from area to area, but I'm doubting the validity of these edits.
These are the originals:
- Hilbert usually has Oshawott as his starter with Hilda having a Snivy as her own in fanworks. Likewise, Nate will be given a Tepig (partly due to the Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 movie trailer) while Rosa has an Oshawott. Despite this, Hilda and Hilbert are most often portrayed with Tepig, and Rose with Snivy, in official art.
- Hilda is usually depicted as the protagonist of the first games. With the sequels, fan-works are evenly split between Nate and Rosa (with a slight lean towards Nate due to the animated trailer and to make him contrast with Hilda).
These are the edits:
- Hilda usually has Oshawott as her starter with Hilbert having a Snivy as his own in fanworks. Likewise, Nate will be given a Tepig (partly due to the Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 movie trailer) while Rosa has an Oshawott. Despite this, Hilda and Hilbert are most often portrayed with Tepig, and Rose with Snivy, in official art.
- Hilda is usually depicted as the protagonist of the first games. With the sequels, fan-works are evenly split between Nate and Rosa (with a slight lean towards Rosa due to the animated trailer and to make her contrast with Hilda).
I am not interested in Unova fan-works anymore, but I remember at least during Gen 5 itself the original versions were accurate. I've always seen Hilbert with Oshawott and Hilda with Snivy. I'd also say fanworks lean towards Nate over Rosa.
Edited by Pichu-kunopenminor edit war and questionable edit on YMMV OOT Videogame
garthvader on YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time removed the Water Temple from a Base Breaker entry,citing that "You see nobody dislikes the water temple because it's *hard*, the dislike it because you're constantly farting around in the menu". I put it back as the WT has become shorthand for 'hard Zelda dungeon', the master quest version and remakes made it easier because of its notorious difficulty. and the level designer even apologized for how hard it was, and the BB entry cited positive thoughts on the level as well, with some really loving it.
They re-removed it, saying " No, it's NOT notorious for being difficult, it's notorious for the fact that every time you mess up you have to repeat a sequence of annoying steps and menu transitions. Lying about why people don't like it makes a poor example. As an addition, the level designer did not apologise for how hard it was, quote: "I am most sorry that it was not easy for you to put on and take off the heavy boots, that all the time you had to visit the inventory. I am very sorry about that. I should have made it much easier to switch to the heavy boots," Aonuma said."
However, right before that Aonuma said "“The Water Temple in the Ocarina of Time was notorious for being very tough to conquer," implying he was being sarcastic about the boots, and even if not he does say the temple itself is difficult. I found the edit reasons a bit rude as well ^^;
But even more than they they added this to the YMMV page, which seems questionable. "**Naming Link as "Hitler" also results in a, um, interesting new interpretation of the story."
Edited by lalalei2001openBest way to clean up Self-Fulfilling Spoilers on character sheet? Videogame
Hi everyone! What is the best way to deal with Self-Fulfilling Spoiler and Spoilered Rotten examples on character sheets?
I've been working on the character sheet for the visual novel The Letter , and some of the characters' examples are inherently spoilers on their own. The most obvious examples are Character Death and Plotline Death for the characters who always die in the visual novel regardless of player choice. Currently for these examples, the trope name is visible, with the rest of the description spoiler-tagged.
Some things I could do (not sure what is best):
1. Do nothing.
If the way this character sheet handles spoilers is fine, then I won't do anything else.
2. Add an "Unmarked Spoilers" policy to the page.
I can add an "Unmarked Spoilers" notice at the top of the character sheet, and simply un-tag all spoilers. Since the visual novel is plot-heavy, this might be a good idea.
Besides the main page for The Letter is still spoiler-tagged, and people who want to avoid spoilers can simply read that.
3. Remove those examples.
The main page for The Letter already has a Killed Off for Real example, which AFAIK is already properly spoiler-tagged. I can just merge the examples from the character sheet into that one.
Thanks!
Edited by craleigh318openPotential edit warring on ''Characters/TheLastOfUs'' (Is it my fault?) Videogame
I'm getting a bit annoyed. It seems like every time I try to edit the character page for The Last of Us, any changes or examples I add are either deleted, commented out or re-edited, many times seemingly instantly after I post them. Admittedly some of them may have been misuses, but I'm getting really mad. I recently removed the page from my watchlist due to both the frustration and the desire to avoid potential spoilers from ''The Last of Us Part 2", but I went back to add more examples (which will likely get removed too) and saw more things removed. Off the top of my head, here's what was revised (examples are paraphrased SPOILERS AHEAD):
- Berserk Button: Joel has a tendency to get pissed off when someone asks about his past before the infection, particularly his dead daughter Sarah (this one was admittedly a misuse in hindsight, since the trope doesn't apply to situations that would reasonably anger someone, and Joel would reasonably not want to talk about such a painful memory and Ellie was intentionally pressing him about it)
- From Nobody to Nightmare: I pointed out Joel's rise from average, working class single father pre-outbreak, to reckless hardcore survivalist with a body count likely in the triple digits. David's group openly runs away from him rather than fight him after having killed dozens of their men. It was removed due to being "for villains only" even though a) it clearly says on the trope page itself "that being a villain is not necessarily a requirement for this trope, even though most who fit the trope are. Anyone who is feared or dreaded by someone (even if the "someone" in question is the cruel and tyrannical government that the heroes oppose) can qualify." and b) Batman is listed as an example. Not to mention that Joel is, at best a Nominal Hero.
- Older Than They Look: It's a bit hard to believe that Ellie is fourteen. Joel even asks if she's 12 when he first meets her. (She "looks that age to me". Though I do have a problem guessing the ages of children because I have always been younger than I look, I was 6 ft tall by the time I was fourteen and my voice deepened at a very young age; I had a Kevin Conroy-like baritone at the age of ten! So a kid that looks eight or nine to me will usually end up being in their early teens. Furthermore, nearly all of the adults in my town are also Younger Than They Look, further adding to the confusion). But again, Joel himself comments on it in the story, so the example should remain.
Those are just the ones off the top of my head, and most of the edits (except the last one) have been from a single user. Az_Tech341. I haven't PM'd him/her about the issue yet and I doubt it would go well if I did, so I just skipped a step and went here. Is there an issue or am I just an idiot who should stop editing the page altogether? I have already lost my editing privileges once when I was fairly new, and I'm trying to avoid it happening a second time. Probably doesn't help my case, but I have to be honest.
Edited by thecarolinabull01openWanting to add a DethroningMoment about an AllThereInTheManual entry Videogame
I want to add to the Dethroning Moment Of Suck page an entry about Overwatch, but considering it's not in the game proper, where should it go?
- So, when Overwatch revealed its newest hero (28 feb 2018), her official bio was put on the site, except the age she's given doesn't make any sense (she's supposed to be 28, but according to a letter released, Mercy is supposed to have been there a few days after she was born, meaning that Mercy would have been 9 when that happened). Compounded by the lead writer's reaction on Twitter when releasing her, which was a simple "some things are wrong with her backstory". He didn't proofread himself, he didn't check if the information he gave to the team uploading the site was coherent with what he wrote, and he didn't apologize for it, his reaction could be summarized as "meh, i made a mistake, no big deal". It's at this point that I gave up any hope I had left for some form of coherence/continuity with this universe or for Michael Chu to have any credibility as a writer.
openStellaris YMMV example about a racist mod and controversy Videogame
We have this example on YMMV.Stellaris:
- What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?:
- A user created a mod that turned all Human phenotypes into European ones. While not particularly significant, the user also added the tagline "No Multiculturalism Here!", which resulted in the comments section of the mod being about what you'd expect with such a tagline. Cue the mod being deleted within the blink of an eye, a teacup tempest erupting over it, and the mod being brought back. You can read all about it here.
For the record (again), Paradox are Swedish. And that is all that will be said about that.
- A user created a mod that turned all Human phenotypes into European ones. While not particularly significant, the user also added the tagline "No Multiculturalism Here!", which resulted in the comments section of the mod being about what you'd expect with such a tagline. Cue the mod being deleted within the blink of an eye, a teacup tempest erupting over it, and the mod being brought back. You can read all about it here.
There is an Example Indentation issue already, but the example has other issues. Particularly potential drama importation/Flame Bait (note the Internet Backdraft pothole. The racist nature of the mod itself also does not do the example any favors) and that it is the only time on the YMMV page in which a Game Mod was referenced. Paradox being Swedish was likewise also unmentioned on the page outside the example. The history revealed the reason for the referencing of Sweden and the indentation. Both were tied to another example (added by a different troper) that was cut by the Trump/ROJEC thread. In which case I ask if we should cut it or not?
Edited by MorningStar1337openWeird deletion for Kirby Star Allies Videogame
On the Kirby - Bosses and Villains page about Hyness, this was deleted
- Vile Villain, Saccharine Show: His abusiveness towards his own followers is bad enough, but wanting to see the entire universe destroyed by resurrecting a God of Evil? Yeah, the Kirby series being a generally happy, idealistic, and cute franchise full of Affably Evil characters, Tragic Villains with sympathetic backstories, and Generic Doomsday Villains makes him really stand out and hold the dubious honor of being the darkest most evil villain in the franchise itself, with none of the redeeming traits that flesh out most of the villains in the games.
Pretty sure the trope fits, but someone did a big revert edit that deleted most of the added tropes when there was no reason to. The name of the user is King Ghost.
May I add this back?
Edited by ReynTime250open Fridge page for Fallout: New Vegas is locked Videogame
There's no word in Discussion about locking the page, and I don't see a Repair Shop notification header on the page itself. Possible spurious page lock?
Edited by JAG01openURL question Videogame
What kind of YouTube URLs should we link to? I saw over on YMMV.Yu Gi Oh Reshef Of Destruction, MaLady changed a standard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= URL to https://youtu.be/, which automatically redirects to the former when clicked and lengthens the URL in browsers. The page itself doesn't seem long enough for URL shortening to be necessary.
open Revert on SpectacleFighter? Videogame
Could we get a mod revert on Spectacle Fighter? A troper took it upon himself to cut most of the page without discussion. He is on the Discussion page now, so I think the prudent course of action would be to revert the page, discuss what does or does not need to be cut, and then re-cut stuff.
I do agree that the fat should be trimmed, but he cut way too much before any discussion occurred.
openListable examples of Self-Imposed Challenge Videogame
So when it comes to things like Game Mod, Let's Play, and the various types of fanfic, we don't trope audience responses on a work's main page.
So for Self-Imposed Challenge, what kind of examples would be valid to list on a main page? Because I'm seeing stuff like "have you tried winning under various arbitrary restrictions" on Fortnite, or "some players try beating the Bonus Boss while affected by a glitch that speeds up the game" on Deltarune.
openCharacter Page for VideoGame/FireEmblemHeroes Videogame
The character page for Fire Emblem Heroes has mostly characters from the game itself but a few characters from the games before it. My question is, and I asked this in the Discussion tab a few months ago but nobody responded, would it be smarter to just make character pages for the different playable characters based on their home game? We do that to an extent for games like Heroes of the Storm and Fate/Grand Order where they have characters from existing works given a character page, but not Fire Emblem Heroes.
openWork has trope from a fanwork on the original work page Videogame
On the page for Baldi's Basics in Education and Learning, the very first trope, Abusive Parents, is from a fangame rather than the game itself. I understand if whoever added it can't think of enough tropes from the fangame to give it its own page, but this feels wrong. What should we do?
openNot quite a straight example? Videogame
From the Video Game section of Somebody Doesn't Love Raymond:
' 'Psychonauts 2: According to Lili, Truman Zanotto is the only person who doesn't like the workplace-beloved mail clerk Nick Johnsmith, regarding him as a sycophantic Yes-Man. (Or in his words, an "obsequious little lickspittle".)''
This entry, while accurate, isn't quite a straight example - the reason is that Truman Zanotto is Nick Johnsmith, who is actually a deposed tyrant seeking revenge. Truman has "Nick's" brain inside him, while "Nick" has been rendered mindless. So in truth, the person "Truman" apparently doesn't love is himself.
While complicated, what does this detail make this entry? A subversion? Played with? Zig-Zagged? I'm not sure but it's not as straightforward as the trope implies.
Edited by DragonFaxopenPossibly-imminent Edit War in YMMV/LimbusCompany Videogame
Happening in Limbus Company
Edit by me
, on the Good Bad Bugs entry, i changed it from:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100% per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
to:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100 per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
Dat Boi 10 changed the edit back to
:
- When part 3 of Canto IV came out, there was a bug where Sloth and Wrath Power Up, instead of increasing the respective sin's power by 1 per stack, would increase their damage by 100% per stack instead. This, particularly combined with Yi Sang's already powerful Sunshower EGO and synergystic Spicebush ID, resulted in Yi Sang being able to completely decimate waves by himself and casually deal 4-digit damage to Abnormalities with multiple parts.
Which has the major problem of "100%" being equal to a multiplier of 1, basically saying it increases the sin power damage by 1 per stack, when the bug is about the power increase being more like 100 times because of said bug.
I feel like the other editor misunderstood what "100%" would actually mean in a mathematical context, and i'd like the misunderstanding to be cleared up for them before an Edit War breaks out.
Edited by SomeLibre

In live-service games or those that keep on receiving updates. What should be done when an example that used to be valid or was applied in an older version suddenly got removed in a newer version?
Other Genshin tropers brought this up too years ago in the Discussion tab
I'd like to know if there's a guideline for these kinds of examples here on TV Tropes, because there are several other live service games I know of here with trope examples that are "outdated" or "no longer applies in the newer version".
"Blind Idiot" Translation and Good Bad Translation examples also have this dilemma sometimes, as it's common for live-service game devs to fix translation/localization errors when pointed out by players in the game's online platforms.
Edited by DanteVin