Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
openOdd YMMV point removal Videogame
While browsing around, I found that this point was removed from YMMV.Super Mario Odyssey by The Living Drawing:
- Sacred Cow: Super Mario Odyssey quickly reached this status much like its sister game The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. The Mario franchise in general is a very strong Sacred Cow for Nintendo, and with Odyssey bringing the series back to artistic greatness and having few to no argued flaws, a vast majority of the Mario and Nintendo fandom holds the game in very high regard.
Now, that wouldn't bother me too much — the Broken Base point on the same page notes that it's gotten a fair amount of criticism and debate over the years regarding whether or not it has too many collectibles. What does grab my attention, however, is the edit summary, which reads "Game is very frequently bashed and seems to be seen as one of the weakest 3D Mario games nowadays." I haven't actually seen any of this myself, both in Nintendo-centric and more layperson-oriented spaces, and from what I could glean, it's still very well-regarded despite the content overabundance debate, which makes me wonder if this is someone mistaking a Vocal Minority for general consensus and/or editing solely based on their personal opinion of the game. Should the point be reinstated, given that, or is there a better way to go about it? Edited by bowserbros
open Edit to Fate/Stay Night character page constitutes vandalism? Videogame
In this edit
for the character page for Saber from Fate/stay night, user SteelDumpling replaced all instances of "Altria" (the character's official English name as of Fate/Grand Order) with "Artoria" (an alternate localization that is preferred by the fans and has been used in some localizations prior to Type-Moon coming down against it), even in instances where this is inaccurate.
I do not want to start an edit war so I have messaged the person requesting they revert the edit. In the event they do not, should I just do it myself?
Edited by Arawn999openTierInducedScrappy/HeroesOfTheStorm Videogame
On July 19th I remove most of the entries on the Heroes Of The Storm because of the nature of how the page was setup, as it didn't follow other examples such as High/Low/Both, the entries are about 75% of the cast, and the entries don't really explain where they fit in the Tier Induced Scrappy besides saying things like "Their uber low tier", plus the entries seem like they are all over the place in terms of how they are ranked. Is it quick match, ranked, etc.
After I did so, MurlocAggroB readded everything with the following reason: "I know this is non-standard, but there's no rule against non-standard page layouts. You can't just delete 90% of a page's content. Also, not to be elitist, but those entries about Butcher and TLV are laughably wrong."
Firstly I find the "laughably wrong" unnecessary and rude, no explanation was given how this is wrong. Secondly, the entries need seriously evaluation because how the entries are. They are below:
The Butcher
- The Butcher is an aggressive all-in burster, with the ability to 100-0 lots of heroes, especially late game. However, he's also the best example of a Skill Gate Character. He's a pubstomper who thrives on bad play, which you don't see a lot of in the higher leagues. And if he doesn't snowball, he becomes The Load, with not enough damage to be relevant in the lategame and no way to catch up. Dying is easy with his kit, and is extremely punishing as he loses his precious meat. Not to mention, he's the most easily outdrafted hero in the game, being butchered by Blinds, Shields, and strong escape. He's gone through four reworks to attempt to balance his kit, more than any other character, all met with general failure. Out of all the reworks, only one made him competitively viable (the one that came with the Garrosh patch), with the small downside of making him an all-around completely broken character. He was promptly nerfed and is still basically a Quick Match hero only.
Gazlowe
- Gazlowe had been considered an uber-low-tier character for the longest time. He was an overly defensive character that wasn't able to do much except defending an area... and even that doesn't do much compared to bringing your team there. He was also very squishy and didn't push as hard as other choices. 'Hoping Gazlowe gets a buff' was pretty much a Running Gag to the community. This eventually led to Blizzard doing a massive rework of his talents in the Dehaka patch, but it still wasn't enough to fix it. In late 2020, he was given a huge update that reworked him into a bruiser, making him much more useful.
Illidan
- Not even Memetic Mutation can save Illidan from being this trope. He's very squishy and not capable of big burst damage; and while he definitely can chip away the enemy HP slowly, he's also very squishy for someone who demands to be in the middle of combat at all times. He's taken a dive to the lower tier and picking him can elicit Big "NO!"s from your team. He got better after a lot of his talent reworks, but still isn't considered very viable.
Maiev
- Maiev gets a lot of flak for a very specific reason - she failed to deliver on her promises. Despite being advertised as an anti-mobility hero, Maiev did little to fix any of the mobile terrors haunting the meta. Instead, her kit let her join in on it, punishing backline squishies with powerful CC, preventing them from running and often pulling them into her team. She was just another in a long line of heroes suffering from mobility creep.
Murky
- No one likes babysitting Murky. Thanks to his crazy waveclear and general pushing power, Murky needs a constant lane opponent to discourage him from knocking down forts. But, thanks to Murky's non-existent respawn time and measly kill worth, killing him isn't enough to make him leave. Add in Safety Bubble making him shockingly hard to kill in the first place, the fact that Slime and his respawn lets himy win a war of attrition, and his Octo-grab + Pufferfish combo chunking all of Murky's best counters for most of their health, and you have a recipe for possibly the most annoying hero in the game.
Valeera
- Valeera suffers from the same problems as Nova, but has an even worse reputation in Quick Match. On top of being far too focused on hero killing, she is melee and has very little in terms of escape (only a short dash and a rarely-chosen immunity Heroic), making her worthless in any serious game. But all of her low-league infamy comes from one of her abilities: Cheap Shot. It allows her to stun an enemy for a fairly lengthy period and is used in stealth. This gives her unbelievable ganking abilities against enemies caught out of position.
- As of her late 2017 rework, Cheap Shot is no longer frustrating, as it became an anti-AA blind. However, Garrote is her new "cancer" ability. A combination of the second-longest Silence on a basic ability, decent damage and talents that pump even more damage from it, and a blink-strike move if she stays Vanished for long enough, it's simply a death sentence, totally shutting off a hero your choosing for over 2 seconds.
Cassia
- Cassia was hated because she was the ultimate anti-Basic Attacker. With her release, her trait initially gave her 65 Physical Armor, meaning that she had more hp than some tanks against Basic Attack heroes, on top of that she has a Blind and one of the highest dps, especially with Charged Strikes, which gave her not only a damage boost, but made her Basic Attacks splash to every other hero close to the target as well (that included structures initially). On the other hand, she was extremely gimped against ranged heroes and those who rely on spell damage, as her range was much shorter (4.0 vs standard 5.5) and her trait didn't work against spell damage at all.
- Cassia's rework in 2020 aimed to make her more of a generalist and update her talent tree. Her Armor is now gained over time while moving and has a lower cap but also protects from Spell Damage, and there were quality of life improvements for all of her abilities. However, Blizzard overnerfed her in return, which unfortunately left her very underpowered. She was promptly buffed, which, like Zarya below, proved to be a disastrous idea. Her combination of extra flexibility and incredible tankiness via her new trait made her the de facto Ranged Assassin, propelled by an extremely overtuned talent called Surge of LightEffect After absorbing enough damage with her trait, it could be activated to damage all enemies around her. It otherwise had no cooldown and dealt 300 damage originally, potentially dealing a thousand burst by itself in an AoE in one team fight. She was nerfed in almost every patch for nearly a year, finally settling down (but still remaining viable) around October of that year.
Fenix
- If you need proof on how power level can warp how characters are seen, look no farther than Fenix. He went from one of the most beloved and highly requested Starcraft characters to one of the most raged-about heroes in a long time. Thanks to his shield and teleport, he is nearly impossible to damage in the early game, letting him out value every single hero in lane. He has two very powerful AAs as well as a strong uninterruptible damage and CC tool. Fighting against him feels oppressive and one-dimensional - either you break the shield and sneak a CC to break that very brief channel on Warp, or he gets away scot free. While he's no longer the overpowered monstrosity he was at launch, his release version still sticks in players' minds.
Genji
- Genji is one of the only heroes to singlehandedly rewrite an entire meta, even after being nerfed into a balanced state. His Swift Strike is the most powerful dash in the game, bar none. It has almost a screen's length of range, ignores terrain, deals decent damage, and resets its cooldown if Genji scores the kill within a brief window after hitting a target. That, a second dash with his trait, and Genji's on-demand Protected via Deflect made him the strongest dive hero in the game, able to duck into the backlines (even into forts) with extreme efficiency to score a kill, then escape unscathed. He was no slouch in teamfights either, with his Dragonblade cleaving through teams with ease. He was so oppressive, the entire meta reconfigured around to either counter or support his playstyle, seriously lowering the value of backline squishies in either case, and forcing the transition into Double Support compositions to minimize the windows in which Genji could score kills. He's been heavily and repeatedly nerfed as a result, with no signs of slowing down even a year after his release.
- Seven months after his release, Blizzard deliberately nerfed every Support in the game to lower the inherent strength of the Double Support comp which Genji prompted.note Given that Blizzard thought this an appropriate response rather than just nerfing Genji, one could argue that he's not responsible for Double Support Winter, but it's just as clear that he was a major influence on it. Of course, that still left him running rampant, so when Maiev was released, two months after that, she was explicitly positioned to hard-counter him and his ilk. If that's not proof that Genji has warped the meta, nothing is.
Greymane
- Greymane dwelled as a sort of "sleeper OP" all throughout 2017. While he wasn't performing insanely well at anything in particular, he is a Jack of All Stats who can do basically anything an Assassin is supposed to: he has good poke, burst, dive, escape, lane clear, mercing, and even tank busting. His only real weakness is a lack of self-sustain, which is made up for by his ability to stay at a safe distance until he needs to hop in and significantly greater health pool than his rivals bar Zul'jin, who needs to be at low health to do heavy damage. There is no situation where a Greymane is a bad Assassin pick... but, because he wasn't technically overperforming, he slid under the radar. Having said that, just one nerf — increasing the cooldown on his wolf!Q from 3sec to 4 — was enough to break his viability, and he appeared rarely during the 2018 competitive season.
Li-Ming
- As stated in Game-Breaker, Li-Ming can destroy almost an entire team herself and keep fighting with no difficulty; as a result, she has landed on the high end of this trope. Blizzard's Nerf was met with praise from the majority of the fandom since it made her much easier to fight. However, it would seem that the fandom will not shut up unless some nerf is given to her Trait, which completely resets her cooldowns if she was just nearby when an enemy got killed. As such, she maintained a high ban rate in Ranked for a long time.
- ...until 2017, when enough viable dive heroes (Genji and Tracer being the biggest examples) showed up to give her a headache. In addition, double tank comps are also popular, which Ming has trouble bursting down. Because of this, she's drifted to the other end of this trope, although only mildly.
Nova
- Nova gets hit with both ends of this. At low tiers she's the quintessential pubstomping hero that can kill someone before they can react. At the high end she's considered almost useless because she isn't very good at doing anything besides killing heroes — IE, all the things that actually win the match — and people are savvy to her tricks. (While she can provide an acceptable laning presence or work on objectives, she can only do this if someone babysits her, which is a big ask at that level.) After her changes in the Li-Ming patch, she more or less became entirely useless in both low and high levels of play.
- ...Until the Hanzo patch, when Stealth was updated. She was given a new activated skill that dropped a clone and stealthed her instantly. Despite the 60 second cooldown, it made up Nova's prime weakness - escape. Keep in mind that the clone literally switches with her, taking the hit for point-and-click abilities heading her way. Couple that with improved clone AI, and Nova suddenly became extremely safe. Not only was she a viable pick in higher leagues, she was one of the highest performing mages. Of course, that wasn't allowed to last, and Nova was nerfed into obscurity once again.
Probius
- Probius had a fairly poor launch, with low-range skills, too much setup needed, and not enough health to justify it. After some cooldown and range buffs however, Probius earned his niche as a Difficult, but Awesome area-denial mage/pusher hybrid that could pump out Chromie levels of burst. That was until two things; Pylon Overcharge receive a barrage of nerfs to help make Null Gate attractive, and Genji was released, ushering in a dive meta era that his squishy body couldn't take. Throw in his extreme reliance on Pylons and their setup time, and Probius could simply no longer keep up, reverting basically back to his launch status except without even the high impact Pylon Overcharge gave him.
Raynor
- Even being the game's poster boy and tutorial hero couldn't save Raynor from the bottom tier. As an AA assassin, he was outclassed in damage and utility by Valla, Greymane, and Zul'jin. As a pusher, he was outclassed by every specialist under the sun. He has the same health pool as Chromie, and his skills are nowhere near powerful enough to justify that. Maybe the most comical is his "trait", which gives him extra attack range... something that Ana, Nova, and Hanzo all get without using up a trait spot. Hero reworks usually result in split opinions, but everyone has been begging Blizzard to take a look at Raynor, which Blizzard finally agreed to do in 2018. Said rework made him go from trash tier to godlike, with busted amounts of damage pumped out with his AA (which, thanks to his new trait, works double-time as sustained damage and burst), a free powerful heal, and a combat stim that doubles as an escape. Additionally, he not only has all that damage and safety, but he kept his 6.5 range, giving him a massive edge over melee heroes and a significant way to outplay other ranged ones. While Blizzard eventually lowered practically all of Raynor's numbers, he's still a serious meta force due to his sheer versatility.
- Patch Notes: Raynor's pepper was bringing a bit too much salt.
Sgt. Hammer
- Sgt. Hammer is arguably the best siege hero in the game. She will probably make you rage - either because she can't get herself set up in a good spot (thanks to the other team making sure to always harass her away, as siege mode is a big "Kick me" sign) or because your team can never keep an eye on her until she tears your buildings to shreds. She also has been able to make people playing solo range for the fact that seeing a Sgt. Hammer more or less flat out forces you to babysit her, and sure enough, any Sgt. Hammers on the other team will have people glued to her, while yours will run away from her like she spews poison.
Sylvanas
- While Sylvanas has always had game balancing problemsnote Go read the gamebreaker page for that, she headed full-on into this trope during the Hanzo patch. With the buffs to minions and the weakening of structures, she pretty much became a win-harder hero. She was able to push more efficiently than she ever had before, especially when her team manages to get an objective, and making it almost impossible to come back.
- At very high levels, Sylvanas sits on the other end of this trope. Her ability to push down lanes is unrivaled... but she can easily be stopped by the simple decision of going to fight her. At higher levels, someone always comes to defend against them, which hampers her effectiveness. Despite how easy she is to counter, her "power pie" is almost entirely eaten by her trait just because it has such snowball potential. She's not a strong solo-laner due to a lack of sustain, she's not good at mercs or objectives thanks to low damage, and she's not good in teamfights because of her low-impact abilities. All she can do is lock down structures for her team to rip apart. Her later rework fixed her to be more of an actual Assassin, fixing that issue of her playstyle.
Tracer
- Launch Tracer was the next 'most annoying hero to fight'. Skillshots were practically impossible to land on her, as she can zip through the battlefield three times in a row if she has her charges; her auto attacks, while weak, can be done while moving to avoid any lost DPS. And she has that Recall skill, basically the Reset Button skill possessed by many other MOBA characters as ultimates on a basic skill* Granted, it doesn't restore health without a Storm Talent, but it's still an escape + Cleanse. Fighting Tracer can easily result of a failed Benny Hill chase gone wrong while she's killing you, and she's a lot more of a bane for immobile or skillshot-heavy heroes. Tracer single-handedly dethroned Li-Ming from the Game-Breaker status by being such a hard counter to her.
Anub'arak
- Anub'arak for the longest times was considered one of the worst tanks in the game. While he did have some decent utility with his ult and stuns, it didn’t make up for the fact that he was squishy and didn’t really put out that much damage. He was especially hurt when his Burrow Strike ability lost its invincibility which made him even worse. And then Blizzard added the armor mechanic, giving him 25 spell armor. This one simple change made him go from one of the worst tanks to one of the best tanks, making him the best counter against any team with a spellcaster, and launching him to the high-end of this trope. He’s been slowly nerfed since then and now his spell shield is tied to his W but he still one of the top tanks.
Artanis
- When it comes to Artanis, most people will agree that he's a very scary hero on paper when it comes to the late game, but he has a few key problems that put him under this trope. A couple examples are his problems sticking to targets due to his incredibly low attack range, how easy it is to kite him, and, as mentioned above, it's almost necessary to reach the late game before he has any sort of impact. His problems getting his basic attacks off also leads to him being surprisingly squishy, since his main source of survivability, his trait, is made more effective if he's actually able to attack his targets. He received a buff to his Twin Blades that will allow him to have a mini-version of his Zealot Charge as baseline, allowing him to close gaps on his foes a lot more easily. Come the Lucio patch, he's much more viable and scarier than ever, with a rework in his talents and abilities, such as being able to use Warp Prism during Blade Dash (allowing him to abduct enemy heroes from 2/3rds of the screen away), and several shield abilities which make him last a lot longer than usual. He's constantly pick-banned in ranked and unranked on larger maps as a result.
Arthas
- Arthas was one of the first major balance issues to hit Heroes of the Storm, thanks to a few generic talents that Warriors really shouldn't have had. Namely, Envenom, Heroes of the Storm's Alternate Company Equivalent to League of Legends' Ignite, which combined with his base kit, gave him far too much burst for a warrior, combined with his extreme resilience in teamfights thanks to Army of the Dead and Immortal Coil plus his extremely powerful crowd control, made his only weakness (a lack of mobility) largely an afterthought in the face of his ability to turn anyone who got within reach or caught by his root into cold cuts. Needless to say, Envenom was nerfed into the ground and later removed from Arthas entirely.
Chen
- More than any other hero, Chen has been a victim of the changing meta. He relies on his Brew to use abilities, which he has to recover by standing still and drinking. Doing this grants a large regenerating shield, but he's unable to take any actions while he does this, and any stuns or knockbacks will break the channel early. Originally he was a strong anti-backline tank that was hard to kill, with a major weakness to stuns. However, as the game evolved, stuns (and especially knockbacks) became more common, and Chen fell behind. He simply no longer filled a niche and was too easily countered. On top of that lot of underwhelming builds and generally weak Heroics have made Chen kinda boring, and he sits one of the most unpopular heroes in the game, with less play than Cho'Gall, an underpowered hero that requires two people in a party to even play. Thankfully blizzard finally reworked him in the June 18, 2019 patch, making him at last playable.
Cho'Gall
- Cho'Gall is on both ends of this. In professional play he's seen as the one of the weakest heroes (at one point having a 20% win rate, and only hovering around the bottom 40s at the highest). This is because Percent Health damage abilities absolutely wreck him, on top of only having 4 total bodies being a huge downside in competitive. The problem comes in when you meet him in the quick match where you can't counter pick; if you don't have any of the abilities that counter him and don't have optimal rotation skills, he may as well be named Game'Breaker. Not only does his abilities do stupid damage even at low levels, he has THE highest HP pool, meaning they can shirk off even ultimate abilities and not even lose half of their gigantic health bar, and if he has a Lt. Morales or Auriel, you might as well not even attempt to kill him.
D.Va
- D.Va tends to gather a lot of hate because of her obnoxious base mechanic: hopping in and out of her mech, effectively granting her 3 health bars in a fight while only granting 50% of a kill. Her standard rotation is "nearly die then pop Self Destruct at the last moment, any damage done to you as the pilot doesn't matter, hop back into your mech if they start to focus on you, die in your mech and escape on foot". Beyond that though, D.Va's kit is fairly underwhelming. Her AA is meh, she moves at 85% speed, her boosters are only average peel, and it's debatable whether Defense Matrix is that amazing. It awkwardly leaves her annoying to face, but never that scary.
Deathwing
The leader of the Black Dragonflight is a full-fledged playable raid boss. He is easily focused down by coordinated fire, but he is permanently Unstoppable, meaning that crowd-control effects do not work on him. These things make him a quintessential pubstomper, as "coordinated fire" basically does not occur in Quick Match, and what little CC he might face, he can shrug off. Additionally, while he cannot be healed by his allies, this is a very small downside in comparison to the vast amounts of damage he can put out, and the fact that, the more crowd control a character has, the more useless they are against him; his trait can reduce enemy characters to complete uselessness, giving his side a numerical advantage that can prove insurmountable. In general, a Deathwing only dies to their own overconfidence.Garrosh
- Garrosh is one of the oddest cases of a Scrappy in the game. Remember that comment at the top about how people ban new Heroes because they simply don't want to deal with them? Garrosh is the poster boy for this behavior. As released, he sat at around a 42% winrate, low but not criminal, but had a nearly 90% ban rate in draft modes across all leagues. The reason for that is simple; Garrosh was a serious one-trick pony. All of his skills were underwhelming, but combining Groundbreaker and Wrecking Ball together was essentially an unbeatable One-Hit Kill unless you threw a highly mobile hero or are fighting Medivh. Because of this, he was beyond frustrating to face, but also kinda boring to play. Nobody wants to deal with him, and no one is sad if they have to give him up. Unlike the D.Va example above, while he wasn't overall strong, he was scary to fight since you had to dodge every Groundbreaker or instantly die. The Groundbreaker was instead reworked into a stun and slow, making his Wrecking Ball take a lot more active planning and risk on Garrosh's part. It is telling however that Garrosh received a total rework of a skill in only six months. Keep in mind that Blizzard has shown to be stingy about completely reworking skills in general, nevermind so quickly.
Mal'Ganis
- Overloaded kits, thy name is Mal'Ganis. He's the ideal tank - a big health bar, high sustain, lots of easy-to-land AoE crowd control, solid mobility, an invulnerability button, and even plenty of damage - he has it all. The worst part is just how hard he is to punish; Night Rush is a crapshoot on whether he gets stunned or he stuns you, and Fel Claws has such a huge window that it doesn't matter if you play sloppy. To top it off, he's got an Awesome, but Impractical Heroic (Dark Conversion) that pretty much exists only to make the enemies rage. For some reason, Blizzard has been rather conservative in how they nerf him, chopping off small numbers here and there every few weeks but rarely affecting his overall power level. The combination of his ridiculous kit, high popularity, and Blizz's slow response has not bred a happy reaction to him.
Ragnaros
- Ragnaros the Firelord was a pure pain when he was first released. Interestingly it was not just because he was overpowered but because he could prolong game to ridiculous lengths. With his lava wave (that can clear an entire lane and soak XP without any bodies needed) and Molten Core (which allows him to absorb the damage applied to an allied building) he could make entire pushes or even objectives basically do nothing. This could prolong games to twice or more their normal length. Molten Core is so impactful, he had a nerf (major or minor) in every single patch from his release until it slowed down around Garrosh - ten heroes later.
Sonya
- Similar to Greymane, Sonya spent months as a top meta pick - not as a Warrior, but as an Assassin. Despite lacking the bulk and peel of a main tank, she deals lots of damage and is still tanky enough to avoid getting melted. She has no real weaknesses in a Bruiser role. She gets a lot of flak for overshadowing other heroes, basically being the sole viable Bruiser. It doesn't help that she has a strong gap-closer that's also an interrupt, usually delivering enough damage to one-shot squishies.
- In Quick Match, she is counted as a Bruiser, and is by far the tankiest of the sub-category. While she's nothing compared to a proper Warrior, against a team with Thrall, Ragnaros, or even Alarak, she's more than enough to make the game essentially "tank vs no tank". This was thankfully rectified in the 2018 Gameplay Updates, which gave Quick Match's algorithm a sweeping rework.
Varian
- Varian has had some balance complaints concerning his Level 4 talents. On release, Warbringer was a talent that replaced the slow on his Charge with a brief stun. Sounds fine, until you realise that not only was it a powerful engage tool, it could be used to interrupt channeled abilities or begin easy stunlock chains. On Taunt Varian it paired with his Heroic to do a lengthy stunlock on his own, while on the other two it was simply too reliable of an interrupt for a high-damage Assassin. Blizzard eventually nerfed it to death... but the only other Talent at that rank is Shield Wall, which makes his Parry block all damage. While technically not "overpowered" (it's really the only thing keeping Varian relevant in the meta), it's annoying as hell. Parry is a short-cooldown skill with two charges, making Shield Wall the most spammable Protected in the game. This allows him to constantly No-Sell major damage at no risk or loss. Eventually, the Fenix patch made Shield Wall remove Parry's second charge, though in compensation it halves the cooldown to 5 seconds. Warbringer was also made more appealing by reducing Charge's cooldown to 1/3 of its previous duration, and allowing Varian to target allies with it, solving the "I have no way to disengage" problems that afflict many melee damage-dealers.
- Varian had the problem of being largely useless for the first nine levels of a match. While there are certainly Heroes who aren't fully functional until they unlock their Heroic, Varian less needs the spell(s) and more the stat boosts; and, until he gets them, he's pretty much unable to contribute to his team. This led to him basically disappearing from high levels of play. The fix to this also came in the Fenix patch: his Heroics were moved to Lv.4, trading spots with the (extremely powerful) talents that previously resided there. Varian players now have a much shorter waiting period before they're able to get into the fight. This has led to him showing up at HGC again, though not frequently (and with a pretty poor winrate).
- The fact that Varian is a Multi-Class hero has given the matchmaker fits. In Quick Match he was not counted as a Warrior but instead an Assassin, but that meant he could end up being the only (potential) tank in a 10-person match, giving his team an unfair advantage. When this was changed with the D.Va patch, this also caused the opposite problem, where people would choose his Assassin Heroics and leave their opponents with the only tank. Even worse, there is no statistical way for the matchmaker to place Varian correctly, as (according to the replay-analyzing website hotslogs.com) players split roughly down the middle
in terms of choosing his tank ability versus the two DPS Heroics. Either Blizzard must nerf one of his two classes into oblivion or must live with the fact that, if he is properly balanced, he by definition cannot be sorted properly by a matchmaker. (They appear to have decided that the real lesson is to never again release a multi-class Hero; when the classes were reassigned at the end of 2018, he became a Bruiser.)
Xul
- Xul is an amazing hero capable of doing almost everything well, to the point where he ended up holding the highest winrate in the game in the span of a week. Understandably, many people were asking for him to be toned down, but he tended to get a pass from some people due to being a fan favorite from Diablo II. Blizzard eventually brought down a pretty heavy Nerf on him, which brought him in line with the other heroes while keeping his strengths, meaning that going up against him no longer meant a near auto-loss, though he is most certainly still viable.
Abathur
- While each Hero gets a difficulty rating (from "Easy" on Raynor and Li Li to "Very Hard" on Medivh), there are two real difficulty tiers in the game. Simple Heroes shine if their player understands how said Hero works. Complex Heroes require the player's entire team to understand those things. Abathur is definitely one of the latter. While good Abathurs can be game-changing, he's incredibly unorthodox — everything he does, he does in weird, indirect ways, and he can only be played to maximum effect if all five players are leaning into his strengths and playing around his weaknesses. If that isn't happening, you'll have 4v5 teamfights all day long, which is a major disadvantage when Heroes is tilted so heavily towards teamfights. Besides, Sturgeon's Law applies to Abathur players, giving the haters more reason to be vocal about his state. If a gameplay hate topic isn't about Murky or Nova, it'll definitely be about Abathur.
Ana
- Ana players, especially ones in Quick Match, tend to get a lot of flak. That's because all of her skills (including her healing) require precise skillshots, something not every player can consistently do. Despite high theoretical numbers, many factors can render Ana useless: not just missing her heals, but allies deciding to dodge them (which happens all the time). She also had almost no ability to heal herself. That was fine in Overwatch, where two healers on a six-person team was and is a pretty normal team-comp... but in Heroes and their teams of five, the second healer is typically the first to go, which led to Ana being extraordinarily easy to bully off. Blizzard eventually gave her some self-sustain via auto-attack lifesteal, but even so, people who enjoy playing Ana because of her skill ceiling admit that she needs more buffing.
Auriel
The Archangel of Hope was released as a true Combat Medic, having an AoE heal which could be fired every four seconds but only being able to charge her heal's Energy Meter by doing combat damage (a bit like to the original FF7 Limit Break). To aid this, and for flavor reasons, she can also use her trait Bestow Hope to channel an ally's damage into her meter as well. The only problem was that the Energy she gained was incredibly low; she needed a strong hyper-carry, pumping out absurd amounts of DPS, to function at maximum capacity — or a Cho'gall, allowing her to cheat by charging herself with two players' worth of damage at once. As such, she languished in obscurity and niche team comps (I mean, Cho'gall??) for several years. Finally, Blizzard buffed the amount of Energy she gained, almost doubling her charge rates and allowing her to take a place in the Nexus that amounted to more than "Joke Character."The Lost Vikings
- Speaking of unconventional gameplay, The Lost Vikings are the mother of Difficult, but Awesome. Their strength is the ability to have three bodies, all of them soaking each lane and gaining constant XP without the need to rotate. They require a large amount of micro-management and constant awareness of not only your team and your enemies, but also where all of you are. Naturally, most beginner players will skip this entirely, instead grouping them as three and controlling them like an inefficient brawler hero. Even players who do split them tend to lack the required care, feeding far more XP than they're soaking. Quick Match Vikings are something of The Dreaded for many just due to the high chance they're not going to do anything useful.
Lt. Morales
- Lt. Morales maybe one of the most unique samples of this trope. She is pretty much the best support when it comes to healing and can efficiently heal her team right back up to full health in the middle of a fight. Her tradeoff is being a Squishy Wizard: she can’t put out damage, has very little health, and has only one self-peeling ability that is quite difficult to use. The end result is that she can easily be scared off or killed if her defenders don't position right. The problem is the tactics of positioning and outmaneuvering opponents isn't really a skill that newer players have a great grasp of. As such, Morales is practically invincible to them; they'd either duel the enemy she's healing, to no effect, or chase after Morales like it's Benny Hill time, to no effect. She is, despite being a dedicated healer, a quintessential pubstomper — someone who is only effective against an uncoordinated opposition. But then you get to higher levels of play and her effectiveness drops off dramatically, because people have figured out how to divorce her from her team and leave her vulnerable.
Lúcio
- Lúcio's been on both ends of this several times. On launch, Lúcio provided him and his entire with team endless sustain and great chase or escape. It wasn't unusual to see an entire team hanging around on the enemy's backdoor for the whole match after they got even the slightest upper hand, just off of how much AoE healing Lúcio could pump out. After that, he was slaughtered by a series of nerfs, cutting his healing by 33% and leaving him gimped and unplayable. A few months later however, Blizzard gave him a several hundred health buff that brought him back into the meta full-force. No longer a healer monster, Lúcio is instead used to set up crazy ganks with Speed Boost and make them unpunishable with Sound Barrier. He can also shake up teamfights with Sound Barrier, since it might as well be a teamwide Divine Shield if the targets aren't bursted through it. While not the most popular or powerful Support, he is one of the most impactful, and ergo frustrating to face.
Tassadar
- Another one of those memetically worthless characters, Tassadar has been in the dust for ages. An uneasy compromise between a High Templar Squishy Wizard and a Sentry White Mage, he did some damage on his own but was best used to babysit heroes like Valla and Tracer, whose weaknesses he could easily compensate for. He is, in that sense, not really a hero in his own right but rather a hero-enabler, which makes him basically impossible to balance. The end result was a total rework; he was shifted to the Assassin pool and reconfigured as a genuine offensive threat (which also pleased StarCraft fans who disagreed with his flavor) instead of the weird half-and-half he was before. Despite this, he sunk even further into the Scrappy heap: a lot of people realized they actually enjoyed his old playstyle, which was now gone.
Whitemane
- While her kit looks fairly straightforward, when played out it becomes a much different story. Whitemane boasts assassin-level damage, all of which is directly converted into health for allies. Spreading Zeal is simple thanks to its long duration, and Desperate Plea can function as that spreading tool or as a major single-target heal depending on the situation. Diving her is essentially out of the question, since she'll be recovering tonnes of health as you're trying to kill her, giving her team plenty of time to converge and end you. While nerfs have brought her closer in line, she's still one of the most detested healers.
Zarya
- Zarya might be the most insane version of this trope. When she was first released, she was considered probably one of the worst characters in the game with a win-rate around 30%. It was so bad she was actually buffed just a few days later (It usually takes two weeks before a hero gets a patch). After that, she went on to achieve a 71.5% win-rate, surpassing the previous Game-Breaker Xul, which was formerly the highest of any hero ever. Blizzard nerfed her only a day later, and she's been middle-tier ever since.
openKirby Characters reorganization Videogame
The character pages for the Kirby series (link here
) have been going through a lot of restructuring recently. Where we originally had one page for every villain and boss, we now have four pages: Villainous Factions (for major villains that are part of a group), Other Major Antagonists (for major villains that are independent), Recurring Bosses (for bosses that make repeat appearances throughout the series), and Other Bosses (for bosses that have only appeared once or twice). There’s also a page for characters specific to Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, which has been seen as unnecessary by myself and a few others for a while. Someone else has already removed any character from the Return to Dream Land page that can be found on another page. All that’s left on the game’s page are one-off bosses. I’d like to move these entries to the Other Bosses page and get rid of the Return to Dream Land page entirely, but I’m certain the Other Bosses page will become too long if I do. Should I split the page again? Remove any characters that only have two or three tropes attached to them? Leave these pages as-is?
openHero of Another Story Videogame
On the trope page for Mental Omega, a troper added an example for Hero of Another Story which I removed since I don't consider to be valid (since the heroes in question are also playable characters in their own right) but he didn't agree and added it back for this reason: 'reputting because said I watch and played the game and saw it myself'. I'm not very sure about who's right and I don't want to start an Edit War over this issue.
openAvoiding an EditWar Videogame
Nintendoer asked a meta question on Headscratchers.Pokemon Sun And Moon. I deleted it with this note: "This question is more appropriate for Discussion or a Forum thread. Headscratchers is for questions about the game itself, not meta fan theories." They promplty readded the question. Is Headscratchers the appropriate place?
Edited by ChaoticQueenopenRed Dead Redemption 2 Videogame
Should We Have This? Got myself a dumb question here, at the trivia section of Red Dead Redemption 2 there a line that says "Jossed: RDR and GTA don't take place in the same universe. In "The First Shall Be The Last" New York gets name-dropped in conversation, of which neither state nor city exist in GTA." without direct Word of God information out of pure speculation and might have contradict itself due to a stranger mission called geology for beginners
Edited by IndepthEtheropenWant to ask this in hopes of preventing an EditWar Videogame
So, in Unbuilt Trope I recently added the example of how Resident Evil 4 codified the Press X to Not Die trope and how it mainly existed to play up the Survival Horror elements and keep the player on their toes during cutscenes.
However, not a day later I checked back and see someone had replaced Resident Evil 4 with Clock Tower in the example. I don't want to change it, mainly because I never played Clock Tower myself so I can't say anything.
Can anyone verify if it's a better example for this trope or should be reverted back? Since I don't know anything about Clock Tower I don't want to get into a possible edit war over this. All I really know is that Press X to Not Die didn't really take off until RE4 did it, even if other examples existed earlier.
openBadass Decay on YMMV/Sonic Forces Videogame
This trope was originally removed from YMMV.SonicForces as it "now argues with itself", but people keep adding it back in:
- Badass Decay: Silver's been hit hard with this. The guy who can handle Iblis, more than capable of killing Sonic and his powers are strong enough to the point where he can compress tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of pounds of cars and debris into a massive ball...can't handle a few Death Egg Robots.
Silver: "Hurry, Sonic! We can keep them in check, but not for long."
Should I remove it again?
Edited by BSonirachiopenLife is Strange fridge page Videogame
There are several entries in Fridge.Life Is Strange that are either too obvious to be considered Fridge, built on no basis whatsoever, or just flat out wrong. For example:
Too obvious:
- With the reveal that Jefferson is the one was kidnapping and drugging girls after taking pictures of them in Episode 4, a quote from his speech at the start of episode 1 shows that he was behind it all along, as he says "I could frame any one of you in a dark corner, and capture you in a moment of desperation", clearly alluding to the Dark Room. After that, he even seems to tease the player in retrospect. "Is that too obvious?"
Pointing out an obvious clue of foreshadowing. The game itself event points it out.
No basis:
- If you had Max euthanize Alt!Chloe in Episode 4, she immediately uses the photo to go back in time. However, that means that Alt!Max wakes up in her own body, next to her dead best friend she hasn't seen in years, having unknowingly killed her and with an entire day's worth of memories missing.
This assumes the game operates under multverse theory, which it doesn't. The entire message is that Max's constant time travelling is harming the timeline, which is desperately trying to correct itself.
Flat out wrong:
- Think sacrificing Chloe is the correct choice? "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" Well sure! Go ahead and rewind time to stop yourself from saving Chlo- Wait? Wasn't your constant rewinding of time the cause of the Time Storm in the first place? ...And you just rewound time AGAIN. Congratulations! You just made the storm in all likelihood BIGGER. The town will still be destroyed, Max will not have her powers to mitigate any fatalities like last time, and she just sacrificed her best friend for nothing. Have fun!
We specifically see that the storm didn't happen once Max gets back, due to the timeline finally being corrected.
The point here is that there are several entries like these on the page, and trying to list the reason for deleting each one will be a giant hassle. Is it okay if I just mass delete the wrong entries with a blanket explanation of "Factually wrong", or do I need to give each deletion its own explanation?
openAm I the only one that feels that call of duty zombies YMMV Page needs cleanup Videogame
Link here https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/CallOfDutyZombies
Ok, let's not beat around the bush: this YMMV Page is kinda messy: It has chevkov's gun in this section for some reason... It Also has a few "as noted above/as noted below" that end Up being confusing as heck. And things like this:
Scrappy Weapon: The SMR, with excellent reason. Bad power, low capacity, arduous reload speed, semi-automatic and worst of all, it has a glitch that makes aiming down the sights exactly the same as hip firing, giving it almost nonexistent accuracy. It was never even patched during the lifetime of Black Ops II. Yeah, good luck aiming down the sights across 50 feet. After an update, the SMR FINALLY started to redeem itself in its Pack-a-Punched form, which gained improved accuracy. The Springfield, a weapon so weak it can't even one-shot a zombie in the chest on round 1. That in itself is inexcusable, but even worse is that the ironsights are off, requiring you to aim slightly to the left of what you want to shoot, otherwise you'll miss. On that note, the Kar98k. The only two things it has over the Springfield are that it can be bought off the wall on most Wa W maps for 200 points, and it doesn't have misaligned ironsights. Other than that, it's just as pathetic. Go ahead, try Pack-a-Punching it. It'll totally be worthy of the name Armageddon. In general a good chunk of starter weapons become this, due to fact that they become weaker as time goes on..
Sadly, I have barely any knowledge about call of duty zombies' story or Gameplay. If someone that was familiar with this series could help... It would be appreciated. Maybe splitting the YMMV page in two could also help
Edited by RAHDRONopenI Might Have Accidentally an Edit War Videogame
A user did an edit on Characters.Dead By Daylight, changing a descriptor if Ash J Williams from "An alone wolf" to "a lone wolf". This happened once before with the person adding back noting that "an alone wolf" is deliberate as it's a quote/reference to the series.
I did likewise, putting the descriptor back, but realized after I might have become edit 4 in an edit war since there was already one "remove and put back" sequence.
I think this falls under correcting incorrect information, but to be on the safe side I PMed the user who did the removing (who since replied they'd forgotten that from the show), added a commented out note explaining it's deliberate to prevent future well intentioned correcting, and posting here to head off any issues I myself might have caused.
Edited by sgamer82openInvoked YMMV Videogame
SasquatchX added this to Characters.Super Smash Bros Ultimate 70 To 75 in the Hero's folder:
- Germans Love David Hasselhoff: Invoked Trope, as the inclusion of Eight among the playables is this. Sakurai makes mention in his interview regarding the acquisition of the Heroes of Eight's status being the one that western audiences are most likely going to recognize.
This isn't proper use of Invoked Trope isn't it? Using it for YMMV items is for when said item occurs within the narrative itself, not when it is used as a reason from Word of God for including something within a work.
Edited by homogenizedopen Fridge Horror issue with Balrog-De-Morgoth Videogame
The other day I added an entry on Fridge.Hogwarts Legacy about the character Ominis Gaunt and how his family's history of inbreeding was likely the result of him being born blind. To me this seemed like a reasonable deduction considering that hereditary blindness from inbreeding has been scientifically observed, but the user Balrog-De-Morgoth removed my entry and asserted that Ominis' blindness had to be magical in nature because many other non-magic diseases and disabilities have magical cures. However, there have been no specific cases in the Wizarding World canon where healing eyes by magic to restore vision has been shown, as evidenced by the various characters that wear eyewear, including Harry Potter himself.
I re-added my entry again and explained my reasoning above, but Balrog-De-Morgoth removed it a second time, this time citing that Pottermore lists cures for non-magical diseases including cancer, but then claimed that because the character of Mad-Eye Moody has a magical replacement eye, that was also reason enough to remove my entry. This is ignoring the fact that Moody's eye is a replacement, not his original eye which was healed, and therefore completely irrelevant my point. While there is also the fact that Ominis' wand reacted specifically to him being blind, this still does not indicate that his blindness is caused by magic since the way wands work is left very mysterious, and Ominis himself states in-game that he was born blind.
Is it alright for me to put my Fridge entry back up? Plus I also feel that removing a Fridge entry because you disagree with it is bad etiquette.
Edited by ChipGoffOfRORopenHow to approach adressing a problematic aspect of this work(Little Witch Nobeta) Videogame
Considering addressing the Little devs offical Twitter provocative posts but not sure how to approach it given the account contains explicit posts over the protagonist and bosses.
Mainly because it's worth discussing since the game it's self is rather tame, outisde a few questionable outifts, and takes its self seriously but the offical twitter accounts post brazenly erotic and suggestive posts from time to time enough that it's rather noticeably jarring to compare the two.
Note this is an issue mainly because of this site's stance on "pedobait"
Though on a more minor not sure what tag to use for a "sexual advertisement tame work" kind of thing.
openNot too sure about starting a fanfic page about a Japanese fanwork Videogame
Hello Tropers,
Today I want to consider doing and creating a page for another Fan Fic of Touhou Project known as "Touhou Baseball in Heat Star 2007", by "Decorun-san" in Nico Video website, as seen here
. I cannot plan to translate everything and this is a Japanese work with No Dub for You (no English translation), and I'm the only one interested currently in making the page.
Question is, since I cannot simply just create a fan-work page by myself, for now I'm considering to instead put it in Sandbox. For now, I just decide to load up with a plenty of tropes based on analysis from a rough translation from what I got.
Can I get suggestions with how are non-English fan works are generally handled? Maybe if necessary you can redirect me to a forum topic if needed, but I'm just curious, honestly.
Thank you for your attention.
Edited by JustNormalMusicLoveropenhow much natter is allowed on headscratchers? Videogame
Parts of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom is reading like a micro-forum as people add replies.
See the entire folder below I pulled from the page (reminder: contains unmarked spoilers):
- Perhaps she doesn't want to be coronated until Hyrule is at least restored to a basically functional kingdom again? Alternatively, she may be awaiting some ceremonial age of majority (as she is still biologically a teenager) or there may even be some kind of ancient dynastic tradition requiring her to complete some ritual, quest, or even just getting married before assuming formal queenship.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- Neither Link nor Zelda have gotten noticeably older or taller in the interim, compared to the adult Hylians we meet they're still significantly shorter. However much time has passed between games, it seems very unlikely to have to have been the real life six years.
- Indeed, probably not six years. But Zelda was seventeen before she went into stasis with Ganon. Given Hylians grow and age like humans, she wouldn't likely get any taller (most girls have reached their max height by sixteen). Link might as men can grow for a few more years, but chances are they are both just shorter than average Hylians.
- It seems rather unlikely that both Link and Zelda would have remained exactly the same physically if significant amounts of time had passed. Further, Riju is at an age where she ought to be growing significantly were much time to have passed, and yet, hairstyle aside, she doesn't appear to have changed much. I can see little reason to assume that anything more than a handful of months have passed between the games.
- Hudson and Rhondson (who are introduced to each other by Link during Breath of the Wild) have a daughter that's old enough to read and write (and has the usual "young child" model for the Gerudo), it's undeniably that at least around 5 years have passed, any character that didn't change was just due to the designers not wanting to redesign them. As for the original Headscratchers, Zelda probably doesn't want to get crowned before she's helped the kingdom recover in a more hands on way, or something like that.
- For another bit of proof that Link is older and simply short, he's now able to order the Noble Pursuit drink from the Gerudo that he was regarded as too young for in Breath of the Wild.
- The Noble Pursuit Link can order is specifically stated to be a new recipe that all ages can enjoy; the creator even comments that normally Link would still be too young to drink the old version.
- Which just raises questions about what is it about that drink that requires such a high age. Especially when to my knowledge it is never even said to be alcoholic. Regarding Riju, she did get taller. She was about half a head shorter than Link in the previous game, but now from what I can tell is slightly taller than him.
- It probably is alcoholic, but they wouldn't be able to say as such explicitly without raising the age rating and so just had to imply it.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- It could be simply that a royal title doesn't have much priority for Zelda. Given how humble she is, she's probably more concerned with her reasearch, her personal life and helping out everyone, wherever she can. Given how harsh her life was as a princess prior to the calamity, she may even prefer the lifestyle as a commoner, rather than going back to being royalty.
- The above explanation is supported by the fact that Zelda has been living in Link's house in Hateno Village, while in Hyrule Castle there are no signs of her having moved back there.
- It's questionable whether the kingdom of Hyrule even exists anymore. The kingdom was destroyed over a 100 years ago, and ever since then various regions and towns of Hyrule have been self-governing units that work just fine without a higher king/queen above their regional leader. The majority of Hyrulians don't even have any memory of a unified rule, since only among the Zora is there a large number of people who were alive before the Calamity. Considering all this, maybe Zelda doesn't even want to try and restore the kingdom? What right does he have to force her rule on people who have been living without such rule for generations? The reason why everyone still calls her Princess Zelda might be out of tradition, or out of respect for her part in ending the Calamity, not because they still consider her to be their future ruler.
While I understand the game is still new and everyone including me wants to talk about it, but it feels like questions are getting derailed just because parts of the game were missed (which is reasonable given how big the game is) or just segueing into a different discussion entirely.
The original question is just over Zelda's title as princess but it's derailed into a discussion about the time gap between Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild and other parts of the game with not too much relevance beyond "Zelda should be old enough to be queen".
Is this just normal Headscratchers discussion?
Should I delete the parts that are derailing from the original question? Or should I just move the discussion into a separate folder entirely since I think discussing the game's Time Skip does have some merit.
EDIT: last-minute edit of spoilers, I haven't used this site for a while (specifically ATT) and thought my post would be cut off a little when I posted.
Edited by INeveropenAbout an Edit Reversion Videogame
I was recently sent a warning about example indentation regarding an entry
in VindicatedByHistory.Video Games. Now, I don't disagree with the warning — I actually did make a mistake regarding what I was supposed to do indenting-wise — but since the entry was deleted wholesale, I'm not sure whether re-editing it while fixing the issues would qualify as edit warring.
The edit reason also mentions that a pothole to Condemned by History was misused, which I don't particularly agree with. At the time of its release, if I'm not mistaken, Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U did have a sizable fanbase (including Tournament Play, albeit never as big of a scene as Melee had), and Brawl (which the entry was about) was forgotten by casual players for a while until the release of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate made for 3DS and Wii U's faults stand out in retrospect, rather than being "reviled from day one" like the edit reason says. Am I misremembering?
PS: I'm sorry for being a serial tweaker. I keep second-guessing myself.
Edited by LendriMujinaopenSelf-reporting: Any evidence of an edit war here? Videogame
I'm self-reporting about if I started an Edit War in a Goddamned Bats entry of my own in the YMMV page of Diner Dash.
Back in the middle of July, I added the entry, which read as follows:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly, in addition to being more patient.
Then at the end of the month, Shaker Troper 2002 corrected the entry in accordance to how the Goddamned Bats in question actually behaved (unlike what I initially thought about them).
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're pretty quick eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly. Like cellphone addicts, their own patience also drains fast as well.
A couple months later (just now), I noticed that the entry was edited, so I decided to rearrange it a bit so it looks clean and organized, without changing any of the context addressed. It currently reads like this:
- Similarly to the Cellphone Addicts, the Cavemen in Flo Through Time have a low patience of their own and make noise that drains other customers' patience, though they're also pretty fast eaters and leave in no time if attended quickly.
I know this self-report might be quite dumb, but I did it just in case there was some issue, since I didn't intend to do anything against ShakerTroper2002 nor start an Edit War in general.
Edited by Inky100

The characters page is split based on each game. The first game has its own continuity, and the third game introduces some AU Counterparts, but the Hyperdimension characters appear repeatedly throughout the series, so they're often just getting the same tropes on each game's character page. Wouldn't it be better to have Character Specific Pages like Broly's with folders for different continuities as well as one for common traits?
Edited by KOman