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openLobo Self-Demonstrating Page Print Comic
Lobo is a thing, but Lobo isn't. Should the latter also be a thing, like we did for Deadpool?
openYMMV/Sinestro Print Comic
The YMMV page for Sinestro (the comic book) is currently occupied by YMMV from Sinestro (a self-demonstrating page). In a case where there is both a work page and a self-demonstrating page, which should get the YMMV?
Edited by StrixObscuroopenCreating Work Pages for Valiant Comic Series? Print Comic
I've been trying to create work pages for the various Valiant Comics series that have sprung up, but find myself stymied by those titles where the series was completely overhauled between its original 90's version and the modern version (for instance, Secret Weapons, where the original was about the company's heavy-hitters, but the modern version is the exact opposite, or Doctor Mirage, where the premise has changed considerably from the original.) Should I have both series on one work page, or separate them by some criteria?
open616 Print Comic
In several pages, when people talk about comics from Marvel Comics, there's a usual need to set apart the stuff from alternate universes from the "main", non-alternate, universe. And so, they use "Earth-616" to make reference to the main universe. There are 2 problems with that. First, it is a terminology that is not self-evident in the meaning, and only hardcore fans would understand. And second, it is only used by the fandom, the actual creators despise it and very rarely use it. So even a devoted fan of Marvel Comics, who reads all the comics but does not go around forums and online discussions, would find the term "Earth 616" a bit weird. Tom Brevoort, who despises the term, even used the Secret Wars crossover to give creators some last months to use it if they wanted, and then established the term "The Prime Earth". See here
.
“I can tell you for sure that those of us actually working on the books virtually never use the term — and I kind of wince inside whenever I hear somebody use it. It just sounds so stupid to my ear, and so counter to the kind of mindset we try to foster in regard to the stories we create and the thinking we try to employ.” – Marvel Executive Editor, Tom Brevoort
“I never use it, I hate the term pure and simple and agree with Tom’s assessment of it. I can’t remember ever hearing it in the office and only really see it used online for the most part. I think the term really came into vogue when the Ultimate Universe came into prominence, but in my world, the language and distinctions are simple, there is the Marvel Universe and the Ultimate Universe. Anything other than that reeks of all that DC Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth Prime stuff which I’ve never really taken to, but then again, I got into DC when they got rid of all that stuff so it was from and for a different era than my own.” – Marvel Chief Creative Officer, Joe Quesada
So, what if we remove the references to "Earth-616" and replace them with more natural terms?
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
openSelfDemonstrating.SuperboyPrime Print Comic
ComicBook.Superboy Prime redirects to SelfDemonstrating.Superboy Prime. First off, I'm not even sure if the character has a distinct enough voice to qualify for a SD page. Secondly, SD pages aren't supposed to be linked to, they're Just for Fun, correct? I feel like this should be cutlisted, or at least the redirect removed.
Edited by razorrozar7openAbout Batman Print Comic
Do you think that we should add The Woobie subpage for the Batman franchise? I mean, Gotham is very unforgiving place that is filled with harsh environment and dastardly villains. Batman himself is the Iron Woobie as though he lost his parents to an killer, yet he still presses on and become a Hope Bringer to Gotham. Likewise, Barbara Gordon and Damian Wayne should count as well; as the former was humiliated and crippled by The Joker just to torture her father, and the latter was raised by a mother who is mentally unstable, and a grandfather who is a genocidal maniac. Cassandra Cain, Jim Gordon, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and even Jason Todd are good examples. Heck, it even extends to some in Batman's Rogue Gallery, especially Harley Quinn and Mr. Freeze. The latter is in the tropes, Even Evil Has Loved Ones and Tragic Villain for a reason.
Edited by AlexHoskinsopen2 Jean Grey examples straight form the DepeartmentOfRedundancyDepartment Print Comic
The comics folder on the First Law of Resurrection page has the following two examples
- Jean Grey wasn't actually meant to die at the end of the Dark Phoenix Saga (as stated by Claremont and others), and it was the intention from the beginning to bring her back, just not as a super hero who committed genocide. She has yet to return only because Joe Quesada demanded her death and enforced a "dead means dead" policy concerning her, out of his "characters are 'more interesting' without their Love Interest" beliefs. They got around this by eventually bringing in a teenage, time-displaced Jean in All-New X-Men.
- Jean is remembered as doing this more than she actually has; the Never Live It Down trope was originally named for her. She died at the end of The Dark Phoenix Saga, returned at the beginning of X-Factor, and was an A-list X-Man for decades until a certain cheesy quesadilla decided she had to die to make Cyclops "more interesting." The current comics version of Jean is a younger one from the past. Exactly where the idea that she dies over and over and over comes from isn't quite clear; it could be the various adaptations of the ending of the Phoenix saganote We've seen her return by way of her real body being in a healing cocoon and no two writers having the same idea on if it was her real mind/soul and how it all works, her getting a life force transfusion from the other X-Men, proving to have not actually died but merely lost her memory, continuing to exist as a non-corporeal entit,, and time alterations resulting in her not having gone nuts. However, those are all from comics, shows, and movies who do not share a continuity, each describing her return after the Dark Phoenix ending in a different manner., or it could be the fact that hosts not staying dead is an official power of the Phoenix, so she has to have used it a bunch, right, right? But actually, she hasn't.
while the 2nd one goes into detail about how many times Jean "Phoenix" Grey has actually been brought back from the dead, the first part of it covers the exact same thing as the preceding example, which explains her death at the end of the dark Phoenix saga, Joe Quesada wanting her gone for reasons and that a time-displaced version was used to circumvent that dessication (the only difference being Jean's appearance in X-Factor)
I'm debating with myself what do to do with these entries. The first bullet could be cur or merged with the 2nd, but I feel like that the 2nd example is might have natter problems.
Edited by MorningStar1337openWhy do changes I make not appear unless I am signed in? Print Comic
I can sign in and make changes, add tropes, etc., but those changes and the stuff I add are only visible to me when I sign in. Am I only writing for myself, or is there some sort of selection/review process that my changes have to undergo before they appear on the general, public website?
open Designated Hero in Civil War II Print Comic
Ah, Civil War II, the comic book that reignited the old discussions about who is the hero and who is the villain in Marvel's Civil War. I really want to figure out, once and for all, who is the real Designated Hero of the story.
- "Carol Danvers. When shown proof of how Ulysses' powers actually work, she ignores it and continues her campaign of fighting the future by arresting a woman with the only proof being his vision of her and an empty suitcase. She recruits Kamala to aid her in her venture and essentially tells her to deal with it when the poor girl is having completely major second-thoughts over the entire thing. Later on as she ramped up, several characters call her out on her increasingly totalitarian behavior. Magneto outright compares her to the Nazis after a few mishaps between her and the X-Man, causing her to compare Magneto (who, keep in mind, is a Holocaust survivor) to an internet troll invoking Godwin's Law. Notably, Carol seems to be repeating the same pitfalls that Tony went through in the original Civil War (whose side had a point but invalidated it by acting in a villainous manner), but exaggerated ten-fold. As trying to save people from attacks and crisis that would cause a huge loss of life (which Carol and the Ultimates had been doing and was Carol's initial plan for Ulysses) would be unquestionably a good thing, it comes off as Marvel deliberately trying to make her more villainous to add more moral ambiguity to avoid Tony being the clear-cut bad guy."
- "Tony Stark. After finding out about Ulysses' power, he instantly distrusts it for little to no reason, starting an argument with his friends over essentially nothing. He follows this by, when Ulysses's vision gets Rhodey killed, but successfully prevents the deaths that Thanos would have caused, attacking the Inhumans and kidnapping Ulysses, proceeding to begin experimenting on him to determine how his powers work in order to find any flaw to justify his irrational distrust of him. When he goes about recruiting people to his cause, he does so through bribery (such as trying to buy Sam Wilson's support by playing off of his financial troubles), among other issues. While Carol is Jumping Off the Slippery Slope, Tony seems to start the event being an unsympathetic asshole, even before Carol's extremism comes into play."
- "The Inhumans. At first, they are right to be angry that Tony kidnapped Ulysses. However, Medusa destroyed his company, took his money and ruined his reputation. Even worse, Triton and Maximus blew up his company tower because they felt that she didn't go far enough. When they were with the other heroes confronting Banner, Tony pointed out that Banner hasn't done anything, to which Medusa responded with "Yet." Add to the fact that they don't want to really help save the mutants from being killed off by their mists, and it's pretty hard to see them as heroic. Now it's debatable whether some of the writers themselves consider them heroes considering what Magneto asked Rachel Grey in Civil War II: X-Men #3: "Tell me... in the world you came from... your future... do you recall an Inhuman lifting a finger to help our people?" This instantly caused her to join Magneto. They had basically abandoned Carol when she turned to them for help after Miles went home to deal with the vision of himself killing Captain America."
Civil War II gives us Captain Marvel, following in the footsteps of Iron Man in the first Civil War and who went a little crazy with her methods while using a Inhuman precog, Ulysses, to combat crimes. She went around trying to arrest her allies and others for things that haven't happened yet, and ignored people when they tried to tell her that the precog wasn't really seeing the future, at least not with 100% accuracy. Having indirectly caused the deaths of War Machine and Bruce Banner, she grew more stubborn in her beliefs and went on to imprison an innocent woman, tried to arrest Miles for a crime he may not commit, and put Iron Man in coma when he opposed her. This was explained in Ultimates 2015 partly as having her Go Mad from the Revelation of the Marvel Universe's floating timeline thanks to Galactus showing her. While some fans still love the character, others are unsure that she should be the female face of Marvel.
- Several years on, thanks to a successful film and appearance in another, a number of negative consequences for Carol and a fair amount of self-hatred on her part, plus a general desire by Marvel to forget that Civil War II ever happened (unlike the first Civil War, which had extended consequences right up to and after Siege), which was helped by how it was a forgettable event to begin with, and Ulysses himself hasn't been seen since - means that it's simmered down to the occasional mention.
- Several years on, thanks to a successful film and appearance in another, a number of negative consequences for Carol and a fair amount of self-hatred on her part, plus a general desire by Marvel to forget that Civil War II ever happened (unlike the first Civil War, which had extended consequences right up to and after Siege), which was helped by how it was a forgettable event to begin with, and Ulysses himself hasn't been seen since - means that it's simmered down to the occasional mention."
The actions of either Tony or the Inhumans during Civil War II are not mentioned in the page, but they do have entires, albeit for different reasons.
"I guess we're ignoring the fact Tony kidnapped a man and tortured him, all to get those experiment results which are tainted as a result of said torture. And he assaulted a head of state to do it by tresspassing on their sovereign territory. But the Inhumans are jerks I guess, so they deserved it huh? Yeah, I have a bone to pick with the Inhumans vs X-Men entry too, as it ignores the fact the Inhumans are trying to find a cure for the X-Men, trying to keep them from being harmed by the cloud and the mutants do not explain that they're already out of time to find a cure and just attack them outright with no provocation. The entry even ignores how the crossover ends, with Medusa herself learning that the cloud is about to saturate the atmosphere and kill all mutants... and then she instantly kills the cloud herself because that's the only solution obviously, basically revealing this entire war could've been avoided if the X-Men just told the Inhumans the truth."
"But hey, better to find an easy person to blame in both cases, right? And both events do suck, a fact I won't argue, so who cares if we leave out other details that kinda show that this tropes more easily applies to the other side of the fighting. Frankly, I haven't heard one solid defense for what Carol should've done when Tony attacked her. And if we're using alt. Universes to justify the Mutants actions in Iv X, then fine! In another universe, as detailed in the lead up to Infinity Warps, Carol broke off her engagement with Tony to free Miles from his prison bubble thing... and took what appears to be a mortal blow from Tony's Carolbuster suit in the process."
"Tony. Was Trying. To Kill. Carol Danvers. Period. I find this continued attempt to blame Carol for putting the guy who ASSAULTED HER into a coma very "Victim Blaming" of its proponents. Like if a wife puts an abusive husband into a coma, suddenly she's a criminal too I guess? Next woman who knocks out her rapist and gives him brain damage, charge them with attempted murder, right? And sure, Tony didn't do anything nearly as bad as that... but he did commit Kidnapping, Torture and Terrorism in a short span of time. Yet he does not pay for a single one of his crimes and the comics community forgives him just as easily it seems."
"Tony deserves to be called what he is in the story, as the comic is clearly on his side and even ends with Carol throwing herself onto her sword in anguish over her mistakes while Tony's "death" is lamented as a tragedy. It's not, he attacked her, he got what was coming to him. He's the designated hero of CW 2, not Carol. Carol was presented as the misguided antagonist at best while Tony was allowed to run rough shod over her and scream on his soap box. She never got a chance to present her case! EVER! And we keep blaming her for things that other people did! It's ridiculous!"
"The entry should be switched around, the comic clearly sides with Tony Stark. By definition of trope, the author isn't trying to excuse Carol's actions, they are trying to excuse Tony. He suffers no real lasting consequences for his actions, while Carol has to repeatedly blame herself for things she didn't do! And the same goes for Iv X, as that comic is very clearly on the mutant's side. Neither entry fits the trope and is just someone complaining about characters not being perfect. And the implication that Carol should've let Tony punch her face into the pavement and not defend herself, while ignoring everything he did, SCREAMS sexist bias in my opinion."
"Those are my criticisms, feel free to discuss."
So, what do we do here? I'm perfectly aware that Designated Hero had a TRS clean-up thread
, but it was closed because people were using the trope simply to criticize heroes didn't like.
By the way, I already asked this question at Is this an example?
to get a proper consensus.
openIs Chaos Princess Pinkie Pie in Issue 57 Pinkie Pie's One Winged Angel form? Print Comic
In Issue 57 of the MLP IDW comics, after getting a little too used to the chaos dimension, Pinkie Pie threaten to use her new chaos powers back in her home world (she never says what she'll do from there) then turns herself into an alicorn and calls herself the "Princess of Chaos" . Would this count as One Winged Angel?
Edited by HaloFlyer1122openSelf-reporting - image replacement Print Comic
So...
As a new(ish) troper, when I started actively editing works pages, I swapped out a fair few images for 'better' versions on both ComicBook and Characters pages. By which I mean different images that looked better, not just permitted quality upgrades.
At that point I hadn't fully understood the Image Pickin' rules and how they also applied to non-trope pages with existing images that weren't Image Pickin' approved.
Now, after much more troping, I have a much better understanding of the tools and customs for making that sort of change.
I've never had notifiers on this, and other tropers working on the same pages seemed to be comfortable with the changes. But. This is one of those things where I have seen other tropers get notified and suspended months or years after a change. And I'd prefer not to get caught up In that months or years further down the line, especially if that comes up multiple times on different occasions for the different images.
So what's the best way to make it right? Is it a case of leave it and deal with it if a particular image is challenged, or should I try to look back through history and take the cases to Image Pickin' (or elsewhere) to get them reviewed and confirmed or overturned?
Edited by MacronNotesopen Is there a reason that "Variant Cover" does not seem to have an article? Print Comic
Okay, so, while by necessity discussing the ridiculously confusing labeling of the covers of the Green Lanterns series it became necessary to reference the fact that part of the problem is that with fans knowing that there are Variant Covers for the issues in this comic event, it's even harder for them to automatically notice that there's more than one issue that is a different chapter of the story but numbered the same and named/labeled so closely as to be easily confused with another one (yes, I know it's confusing when tldr'd. I think I managed to give an accurate enough summation on the page itself if you need clarification on what the heck I'm talking about, though. That part doesn't really matter though, because...).
Thing is, I assumed (though yes as always I would have double-checked my link to make sure) that Variant Cover would lead to a page describing the trope. But...nope, it's a red link. "Perhaps it has an article, but just under a different name" I figured, so I searched and...
...surprisingly, there are a LOT of uses of the term "variant cover", in the correct context, all over the site. A notable example being The Great Comics Crash Of 1996 which explains the logic behind the practice. What there apparently isn't, though, is an actual article telling you what it is...?
For those less familiar with publishing industries, particularly comic book publishing, where the practice is currently still very common, a Variant Cover is:
An alternate cover option - not an alternate edition that happens to have a different cover to differentiate it, that is, but in fact a "collectible", internally identical, alternate version of the same issue/book produced at the same time, but simply with a different cover. The idea being the actual comic book issue (again, usually it is comic books where you see this) is exactly the same on the inside but it has the option of an alternate and often rarer or more exclusive cover, usually with primary art done by a different artist than the "main" cover. Sub-types of Variant Cover include: a normal full-color cover that just happens to differ from the original "main" cover (often done by a different artist, who may or may not specialize in cover art); "sketch" or black and white covers meant to show the original pencils or ink drawing instead of a full-color version of the drawing; comedic/parody covers like the series of covers Marvel did with Deadpool; event-exclusive V Cs like for San Diego Comic Con; and even mostly-blank covers, where there's only the important logos and basic information like price and issue number (these are intended for bringing to artists at events like conventions and book signings, where they can sign or sketch on the front for you)
The practice became particularly popular in the early-mid 1990s Western comic book publishing industry as a way to boost sales among obsessive collectors, but it's still very common in the West today; so common in fact, that DC recently reassured readers kind of sick of the practice that there would be only "one variant cover each" for any given issue in the DC Rebirth relaunch! But it's not just DC that does it, or even just DC and Marvel: some "indie" publishers do as well, as well as prominent but non-Big Two companies, such as Dark Horse (I know for a fact that the Buffy Season 8 and 9 comics had V Cs for instance).
Again, there are a LOT of examples (like, literally everything DC is putting out right now, probably literally everything Marvel is putting out, at least a few LONG-running Dark Horse titles, etc), to the extent even that I might suggest using it as an explanatory-only article that notes you can link the trope from the individual work's page - but I definitely think the practice is specific enough, distinctive enough from simply "different edition/different cover", and widespread enough, to deserve an article to explain it to those not familiar with the practice?
Given all that, I'd like to know if there's ANY good reason why there is NOT already such an article, aside possibly from the fact that nobody's thought to/bothered to make one yet? I don't want, after all, to start an article that might not exist for a reason, but I can't imagine a reason why it shouldn't?
open Question about an obscure DC Character Print Comic
I was reading information pertaining to Grant Morrison recently and it was referencing all the forms he has taken in various comics written by both himself and others. I unexpectedly had the topic come up again today in a conversation and was looking up a piece of information I had noticed. There was reference to (if I remember correctly) a Silver Age DC Comics time traveler that looked like Grant Morrison in his signature look years before he had adopted it. This isn't the Invisibles or anything since it wasn't by Morrison. It was just a weird coincidence someone was noting. Now, I know most time travelling characters across various publishers and I just can't place who this might actually be. It was either someone stretching what they thought or something I just haven't found through any cursory searching. I have a set of links from the day I saw that but I'll dig through all of it to find the answer. Was just seeing if there was a more expedient way of digging this up however. Now, is there anyone who might have any idea what I may be talking about?
openJay Garrick: The Flash Print Comic
For some reason, edits to Jay Garrick: The Flash aren't being reflected on my "Followed Pages" list, even though I'm following the page and even though I just made an edit to the page a few minutes ago. In theory, it should be at the top of my "Followed Pages" list, but it's on the second page, and according to the list, its most recent edit was November 23rd. I've checked the work page itself and the its edit history, and those are both up-to-date. Is this a known bug?
openIdentifying Few tropes that I need to write for two series Print Comic
Hey, I am asking if anyone know some few tropes, so I can write them for two series like Cleopatra in Space and Making Friends
- Which trope has a person who was cursed is killed by their loved one said their last words “Thank You” before reverting back to normal in death like Octavian (formerly Gozi) who is killed by Cleo with the Sword of Kebechet and his last words were “Thank you” before being reduced to dust?
For Making Friends
- Which is the prison trope for Madison when she is only trapped in a dressing room and only be filmed for the show My Magical Best Friend?
- Which tropes have Mortha a moon goblin who disguised herself as Linda, Dany’s mom as she is homesick for her home world the moon and would have an ambition to own a moon yacht with her sister Xanther?
- Which trope takes place in the final pages where Madison and Dany find a graphic novel in the dream world that chronicles their life called Magic Friends similar to Making Friends hinting that Dany might one day make a graphic novel based on her experience throughout the series ?
- Which is a trope Daphne st cloud had a crush on Prince Neptune ?
openDeadpool Main page Print Comic
Hello, I'm a long time lurker here and on a whim after seeing the new deadpool movie i checked out the page and to my horror it has been replaced with unreadable gibberish of a "self demonstration page". Well fine I thought I will work my way to the main page only to have it redirect me every time no matter the link used. This is starting to really grate me that some fans are forcing their jokes on others by replacing things with SD material. But when I tried to find a way to reach the main page I noticed a couple mods and others mentioning that there was no main page ever made. Now of course that last time I looked at the deadpool page was awhile ago sure but it absolutely wasn't after this SD nonsense. And I was right, using the wayback machine to early 2010 there is a well made main page for deadpool with absolutely no self demonstrating. Now I'm wondering why people are trying to insist this page never existed and that the deadpool page was always self demonstrating even to the point mods will say it but the old main page apparently got canned sometime in 2010 in favor of self demonstrating article and seems to have never been changed back. The old page can be found on March 4, 2010 for the main page of deadpool.

I've been thinking about creating a self-demonstrating page for Superman but it's been said that it's been cut because it's "redundant". I mean, Most of Superman's supporting cast has a couple, so why not him? Is it okay to re-create one?