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openHow to word this Live Action TV
Having just seen the show, I've started editing the page of Ripley (staring Andrew Scott as the titular Tom Ripley).
In it, there is an Actor Allusion as John Malkovich plays a character (and in the trailer even says he like Ripley's name, though the context is different in the show itself), having played the role of Tom Ripley in Ripley's Game (2002). This has already been added.
However, on top of this, it's revealed he plays the character of Reeves Minot, a character with a major role in the plot of Ripley's Game. Would this be playing the actor allusion trope straight further, exaggerating it, or something else?
openorganizing trope examples Live Action TV
I previously made a thread
asking for help organizing the tropes
on Film.Meet The Parents Film Series and had no response. What should I do? Here’s a full list of tropes that don’t mention a specific film for example.
- Accidental Truth: When the family finds out that Greg got a cat to be a fake Jinx which trashed the family room and lied about it, Pam rhetorically asks him this:
Pam: Now what are you going to tell me next? That you set Kevin's altar on fire? (chuckles nervously. Greg keeps his silence, causing Pam to stop smiling, and realize that what she just guessed was actually true) Oh my god.
- Actor Allusion: Jack mentions to Greg that he spend 9 months in a Vietnamese prison camp.
- Adaptation Expansion: Compared to the 1992 film, the main characters' backstories are much more developed, and Pam gets one additional sibling as well as a specific job as a 2nd grade teacher.
- Adaptation Species Change: Bingo the dog from the 1992 film is replaced by Jinx the cat.
- Adaptational Jerkass:
- 1992's Irv Burns is presented as a typically serious, conservative, cigar-smoking, gun-wielding Midwestern American father. A realistically intimidating father-figure, if you will. Still, he is initially trusting of Greg until his would-be son-in-law's accidents cause the family to collapse. Jack Byrnes, however, is a paranoid, overly accusatory former CIA agent who is immediately suspicious of Greg and goes to comical extremes to confirm his suspicions that he's an unsuitable suitor for his daughter, as he did for all of her past suitors.
- Downplayed with Greg. In the 1992 film, he always apologizes and tells the truth, even if no one believes him. However, in the Hollywood trilogy, he tends to make up lies and excuses when something goes wrong, but he's trying to save, not ruin, his relationships with Pam and her family.
- Adaptational Job Change:
- 1992's Greg (no last name) is an advertising agent. 2000's Greg Focker, on the other hand, is a male nurse.
- Also in the indie flick, patriarch Irv Burns was a gas station owner who eventually sold his business to Japanese investors and retired on the income. Here, Jack Byrnes is a Vietnam War veteran and retired CIA operative whose cover story is that he's a retired florist.
- Adaptational Name Change: Besides Greg being given an embarrassing last name when he originally had none (plus an embarrassing real first name), the Byrnes family last name was originally spelled "Burns" in the 1992 film. Likewise, Jack, Dina, and Debbie were once called Irv, Kay, and Fay.
- Adaptational Nice Girl: Pam's 1992 sister Fay is a creepy, obsessive lunatic who can't stand anyone criticizing her singing, and her interactions with Greg lead to the whole family's downfall. Her 2000 sister Debbie, though, is happily engaged to a man named Bob and isn't given much characterization beyond that, as the bulk of the film focuses on the Greg vs. Jack dynamic.
- All Take and No Give: Jack's Circle of Trust, despite its intentions, is unfortunately this. Jack expects the select few in the circle to be utterly honest, but he cannot keep his suspicions in check.
- Amazingly Embarrassing Parents:
- The free-spirited Fockers. They Cannot Keep a Secret and have no boundaries whatsoever, especially when it comes to sexuality.
- Jack Byrnes to a slightly lesser degree - it's clear that Pam has grown very tired of his overprotectiveness and the lengths he is willing to go to nitpick any potential suitor of hers. Not to mention, he wears a fake boob for much of the second movie.
- Ashes to Crashes: Greg breaks the urn containing the ashes of Jack's beloved mother trying to open a champagne bottle. To make it much worse, Mr. Jinx mistakes the resulting pile for a litter box.
- Blatant Lies:
- Pam telling Greg that her dad is "the sweetest man in the world". Also, later, when Jack claims to be a very accepting person.
- Greg himself is guilty of a few, especially invokedthe one about the time he milked a cat.
- Bourgeois Bohemian: The Fockers. They're portrayed as well-meaning and friendly (certainly much moreso than Jack's family) if a little loopy and too open.
- Butt-Monkey: These films are all about making poor Greg Focker actually, Gaylord as miserable as possible, having everything that could possibly go wrong, go wrong starting with when he's meeting his girlfriend's parents and continuing the trend well after he's managed to marry her and start a family.
- Cannot Keep a Secret: When Pam reveals to Greg that she's pregnant (and the Fockers figure it out on their own), he's afraid Jack will find out because his parents are so open about everything and refuse to keep secrets. Ironically, Greg ends up being the one who spills the beans to Jack, albeit under the influence of truth serum that Jack injected him with.
- Cats Are Mean: Even Mr. Jinx seems to have it in for Greg.
- Chekhov's Gunman: The "bingo bango bongo" guy in the second film who turns out to be the county judge.
- Closer to Earth: Played straight with the Byrneses; Dina is far more sane and rational than Jack. Averted elsewhere, though. Greg, despite being a klutz, is otherwise a fairly level-headed guy and on par with Pam in terms of overall intelligence and sanity. As for Bernie and Roz Focker, they're both pretty loopy.
- Cloud Cuckoolander: Greg's parents to a T. Kevin evolves into this by the third film. And Jack, in his own paranoid and overprotective way.
- Conflict Ball: And how! The entire trilogy's biggest conflicts all revolve around Jack thinking Greg is out to do no good when it's all misunderstandings and not waiting until he has all evidence before confronting Greg.
- Control Freak: Jack Byrnes' Fatal Flaw, on top of being Improperly Paranoid, is that he needs to be the leader of the situation and only his opinions matter. The further down the trilogy he goes, the less control he has, the more stress he gets, which culminates with him getting several heart attacks in the third film.
- Cringe Comedy: Any lesser man would have pummeled Jack Byrnes to a pulp (or would have risked serious injury/death trying), hollered his feeling fed-up with the crap he's been through, and gone back home. Which goes to show how determined Greg is to make things right.
- Daddy's Girl: Pam, being Jack's oldest daughter. Debbie to a slightly lesser extent.
- Dating What Daddy Hates: Not just Greg, but most of Pam's exes as well. There's nothing really wrong with the guys, Jack is just that overprotective
- Dead Pet Sketch: With a cat.
- Decomposite Character: 2000 Pam's sister Debbie and brother Denny are two components of 1992 Pam's sister Fay, one being a woman and the other being a secret marijuana user. Neither, however, has inherited Fay's trait of being an obsessive would-be singer who can't take criticism.
- Digging Yourself Deeper: Greg just can't help himself.
- Do Not Call Me "Paul": For obvious reasons, Greg Focker does not like using his actual first name: Gaylord.
- Embarrassing First Name: Greg's real first name is Gaylord. His parents also call him "Gay". What sort of parents call their son Gaylord Focker? Hippies, of course. It is also implied with the airport security officer Norm, considering Greg's sarcastic "Bye, Norm." after Jack shows up to interrogate Greg instead.
- Empathy Pet: Jack's beloved Mr. Jinx is equally intelligent, standoffish and mean to Greg. Bernie's dog Moses humps everything that moves.
- Everyone Has Standards:
- While Jack has all but delighted in giving Greg a hard time from the moment they met, he cannot abide by Denny's mean-spirited mockery of Greg's legal name. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it background moment, you can see Jack soberly gesturing to Denny that his joking isn't appropriate and he needs to stop. Despite being Greg's biggest critic, even Jack's one of the few who doesn't find it amusing.
- In Meet the Fockers, Roz causes Greg much embarrassment when she talks about Greg's circumcision, and shows the Byrneses his saved foreskin. Even Bernie, who's notorious for being TMI and causing embarrassment by it, thinks that Roz is taking things too far.
- Failed a Spot Check: The ultra paranoid and suspicious Jack is unaware that his own son Denny smokes pot.
- Fatal Flaw: Jack's hyper-paranoid humorless Control Freak tendencies and how because of them he's constantly stressed. The fact that this almost becomes a literal fatal flaw is an important plot point of the third film.
- Flanderization: Jack is a domineering Papa Wolf / Knight Templar Parent in the first film and gets even worse in the sequels. Greg/Gaylord, meanwhile, gradually becomes marginally more self-sufficient and assertive and by the third film, is almost Jack's equal in terms of being a hardass.
- Greeting Gesture Confusion: When Greg first meets Dina, she holds out her hand for a handshake while he goes for a hug.
- Happily Married: Bernie and Roz Focker, to the point that the level-headed Dina is secretly jealous that they have such a successful sex life at their advanced age.
- Hippie Parents: Roz and Bernie to Greg.
- Horrible Judge of Character: For someone who claims to be an expert in reading people, Jack is astoundingly bad at it. His laser-focus on Greg makes him completely miss Bob's character flaws and he only realizes it when Bob cheats on Debbie. He also thinks that Kevin, who, while wealthy, is a flighty In Love with Love airhead who believes in "alternative medicine" and is bold enough to make advances on an already-married woman whom he is suggested to have an unhealthy fixation with, is a better match for Pam than Greg, a skilled nurse who rose through the ranks to become department chair and is clearly dedicated to his wife and children. Dina, in fact points out how he treated Kevin similarly to Greg when he and Pam were dating, and only developed this idealized view after they had broken up.
- Improperly Paranoid: Jack's Fatal Flaw – he would rather believe Greg (and his parents, and everybody else who so much as saw his girls) is actively and maliciously trying to do something (and put him through utter hell to force him to tell the truth) than accept that his son-in-law is just a Butt-Monkey. The "circle of trust" system is also supposed to allow for an open inter-family relationship, but it becomes apparent long before Pam and Dina call B.S. that Jack is the only one allowed to have secrets. Not to mention that he's so focused on Greg that he's caught completely by surprise to learn his other son-in-law, Bob, has been cheating on Debbie, which then indirectly causes him to double down on his paranoia toward Greg over something innocent his granddaughter says.
- Innocent Swearing: Little Jack repeating the word "asshole".
- Insistent Terminology: Jack always says that Greg's job is "male nurse" rather than just "nurse".
- Irony: Even though Jack is one of the best examples of a Knight Templar Parent, his favorite song is the one that exemplifies childlike innocence: "Puff, the Magic Dragon."
- It's All My Fault: After Jack learns that his daughter Deb has broken up with her husband at the start of the third movie, he blames himself for not seeing the signs that Bob was cheating, claiming that he was so focused on Greg that he didn't pay attention to Bob.
- Jerkass:
- Jack. Pam's entire family, in fact, except Dina and Pam herself. Even his cat is a Jerkass.
- The redneck cop in the second movie.
- The Lawful Stupid airline employees that Greg had to put up with in the first film.
- Jerkass Has a Point: While Jack clearly disliked, bullied, and had many unfounded suspicions about Greg, not all of it was unjustified. Greg did unwittingly cause a lot of property damage, and a lot of trouble for the family, and always lied about it, or made excuses, rather then simply fess up, apologize, and try to make amends. Even Dina and Pam couldn't argue with Jack that this was disgraceful, and sided with Jack, when he finally threw Greg out. On the other side of the coin, Jack claimed if Greg had simply been honest about everything, he would've been completely accepting of him. Additionally, while his biases may have led him to assume the worse, quite a few of the things that sour his view of Greg throughout the trilogy are based on Not What It Looks Like examples that Greg is initially unaware of and lacks the opportunity to refute, so a few of his bad impressions are based on not entirely unreasonable deductions.
- Jerk with a Heart of Gold: Jack a very restrained type considering the actor that is playing him; he clearly loves his daughter and wants only the best for her, but his extreme Papa Wolf personality makes it difficult for her to have any successful relationships. Though he does push it with how much he tortures and refuses to reason with Greg and his family. The "Circle Of Trust" and control-freak tendencies make it clear he's pretty difficult to live with, which even his own wife and daughters admit. That being said, he does come to respect Greg by the end of each film, even if he slips into Aesop Amnesia in the next film and has to relearn the same lesson all over again.
- Kafka Komedy: All 3 movies revel in being this.
- Kindhearted Cat Lover: Jack, who dotes on Jinx like crazy. The "kindhearted" part is extremely debatable to say the least, though.
- Knight Templar Parent: This describes Jack Byrnes to a T.
- Large Hams: The Koshers - er, Fockers, oh damn.
- Let Her Grow Up, Dear: Pam's mom is definitely more supportive of her relationship with Gaylord than Jack ever will be.
- Lighter and Softer: Very much so compared to the 1992 movie, in which most of the main characters die, including Bingo the dog. The worst example we see of animal cruelty in this movie is Greg accidentally losing Jinx and replacing him with a stray, spray-painting his tail.
- Living Lie Detector: Jack places his thumbs on Greg's wrists as an impromptu lie detector in their last major scene.
- Which may border on to research failure as using your thumbs to take a person's pulse is not correct; your thumb has its own pulse and thus may give a false reading.
- Some have speculated that Jack was counting on Greg not knowing that, and getting distracted from hiding other signs that he's lying. Though he'd already learned that Greg aced the MCATs.
- Which may border on to research failure as using your thumbs to take a person's pulse is not correct; your thumb has its own pulse and thus may give a false reading.
- Lovable Sex Maniac: Greg's parents.
- Luke, I Might Be Your Father: See Ethnic Menial Labor above.
- M.D. Envy: Inverted; although Greg scored top marks in medical school, he chose to be a nurse so he could spend more time with patients. Jack and the rest of the Byrnes family (which include several doctors themselves) grill him on why he just didn't become a doctor and even refuse to believe he passed his MCAT with top marks.
- Military Alphabet: Jack uses this when talking to his CIA contacts.
- Nasal Trauma: Greg accidentaly breaks Debbie's nose during the volleyball scene.
- Not Under the Parents' Roof: Greg and his fiancee Pam are staying with her parents, Jack and Dina. After a disastrous first day, they are just about to have sex in her room, only to be interrupted when Jack and Dina knock at the door. They're there to say not to worry about the events of the day... and to inform Greg that he will be sleeping downstairs in the den. As Dina is leaving, Jack casually informs Greg that while he realizes the two of them have probably had "premarital relations", while they're under his roof, it's his way or the Long Island Expressway.
- Not What It Looks Like:
- Many of Greg's problems with Jack come from Jack jumping to erroneous conclusions based on limited information; he assumes Greg is giving Pam fetish clothes when he examined a suitcase that was sent to Greg by mistake, he believes Greg didn't take the MCATs but in reality Jack's contacts didn't find Greg's marks because Greg took the tests under his legal name of Gaylord, etc.
- In the third film, Andi gets drunk and tries to force herself on Greg, but he rejects her. Jack arrives, planning to apologize to Greg for their earlier falling out, but gets the wrong idea when he sees them from afar.
- Obnoxious In-Laws: Different types: the Fockers are of the "so embarrassing to be around that they feel like a plague" type, while the Byrnes are of the "make your life hell via constantly point out any little flaws you have" type, with Jack being the exaggerated version of that, that being "Personal version of Big Brother Is Watching You".
- Old People are Nonsexual: Jack and Dina are implied to be this in the first, while Bernie and Roz are definitely not. By the end of the sequel, Jack and Dina pick up a few tips from the latter and proceed to do it in the RV.
- Only Sane Man: Dina's the only member of Pam's family who is remotely nice to Greg.
- Overly Long Gag - see Punny Name below.
- "Are you prepared to be... the Godfocker?" "The Godfocker." "Yes. The Godfocker." "I'm not sure I like the name 'The Godfocker'".
- Papa Wolf: Jack to a disturbing degree.
- Jack learns to his dismay that Bernie Focker can be one when he finds out that Jack drugged Greg with truth serum.
- Parental Marriage Veto
- Precision F-Strike: "Ass...oooole..."
- Profound by Pop Song: Greg is asked to say grace at dinner. He tries to improvise a prayer, which ends up as the lyrics to "Day by Day" from Godspell.
- Punny Name: Mo Focker, an unseen relative. A conversation between Jack and Greg reveals that's not the extent of it, either:
Greg Focker: You meet some of the... eh... some of the cousins?
- Put on a Bus: The first scene we see of Bernie Focker is him taking dance classes... in Spain. It seems this will be his only appearance in the film... until he makes a surprise return home in the second half of the movie. Originally, Dustin Hoffman could not agree to work on the film due to disagreements with the production studio on the scope of his role... but this changed, thanks to negotiations that included a bigger paycheck. He ended up being added via reshoots
- "The Reason You Suck" Speech:
- After spending most of the movie being dumped on by his prospective in-laws, Greg finally loses it and gets thrown off an airplane for giving this to a flight attendant.
- Jack also gets this from Pam and Dina after they realise he's just been looking for excuses to kick Greg out, and from Greg himself when he shows up at the airport. In all cases, he's basically being called out on being an overbearing Control Freak Boyfriend-Blocking Dad.
- Running Gag:
- At the end of each film. At the end of the first two Jack views a video of Greg ragging on him via "hidden" camera. At the end of the third film Jack views a Youtube video of Greg talking about Jack at a seminar and Reiterating the crazy antics Jack pulled in the films.
- People (usually Jack) taking pot shots at Greg for being a male nurse. Even Kevin gets in on it in a backhanded way when he equates nursing with volunteer work.
- Sadist Show: The basis of the humor in the movies is that the universe seems to hate Greg Focker. Also, his new father-in-law is a sadist who refuses to let Greg ever come out of something looking good, and most of his in-laws are sardonic snobs who ridicule Greg at every opportunity. Even the cat seems to delight in making Greg look bad.
- Second Place Is for Losers: The attitude expressed by Jack and (to a lesser extent) Dina after they see the "Wall of Gaylord" put together by Bernie and Roz.
- Shout-Out:
- When Greg and Jack fall into the ballpit, the Jaws theme starts playing. When Greg notices a Worm Sign circling him, a dolly zoom occurs and he starts screaming for the kids to get out of the ball pit.
- Greg and Jack listen to "Puff the Magic Dragon", and Greg brings up the common reading of it as a weed metaphor. Jack is unimpressed.
Greg: Some people think that to "puff the magic dragon" means to smoke a marijuana cigarette.
- Shown Their Work: The human lie detector was debunked, due to info on the pulse. However, another aspect of lie detecting was still in play. When Jack administers the test, he looks at Greg in the eyes. While Greg looks away a few moments, Jack still keeps his eyes focused on Greg's. This is based off of a popular fact that if you look to the left while answering a question, you are lying. The left side of the brain has been known as the thinking side while the right side is the creative side, but they each control the opposite side of the body. Looking to the left means you are coming up with some BS story.
- Spared by the Adaptation: Given that the 2000 film is much lighter than the original 1992 story, Pam and her mom are not accidentally killed by her dad, nor does said dad die of a heart attack.
- Strong Family Resemblance: Averted with Isabel's son, Jorge and Greg as it turns out he's not the real father. Its still uncanny, though.
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: Greg finally snapping and telling off the annoying flight attendant ends with a hard cut to him getting dragged off the plane back through the airport by security guards, and only Jack showing up and pulling rank is able to save him from getting hit with a slew of criminal charges. Even before The War on Terror and the creation of The TSA, aggressive and threatening behavior on an airplane was not taken lightly.
- Too Dumb to Live: Even though the film takes place in the pre-9/11 era (barely) and Greg was at the end of his rope, saying "bomb" on an airplane was pretty stupid on his part.
- Too Much Information: Practically everything Greg's parents say.
- Trailers Always Spoil:
- The reveal of Jack being ex-CIA would've been funnier if it wasn't stated outright in trailers for the movie.
- They also played up Jack watching Greg doing silly kung fu moves to his hidden camera, which is the film's last scene.
- There isn't much the theatrical trailer doesn't give away.
- The Un-Favorite: With Grandkids. Jack picks the bright (and slightly psychotic) Samantha as his favorite to the lonely and somewhat dim Henry. He claims this is because Samantha likely has more of Pam's genes than Greg's, and is therefore "less of a Focker."
- Vertigo Effect: When Jack is swimming after Greg in the ball pit. This is a Shout-Out to Jaws, which helped make the Vertigo Effect famous.
- Wham Line: A subtle one... During the What the Hell, Hero? scene with Jack, Pam and Dina, after Pam walks out says a lot, including the fact that even the adored Kevin had difficulties while dating Pam.
Jack: So what if he took the MCATs? He's still not good enough for Pam.Dina: Who is, Jack? Nobody has ever been good enough for your Pam. I mean, do you realize that you never even warmed up to Kevin until she broke up with him?
- What Happened to the Mouse?: The fake "Mr. Jinx" cat with the grey tip on its tail. When Jack confronts Greg about it, Greg sets the cat down, and the cat walks off, down the hallway. It's never seen again after that. Not that we even need to know about it after that.
- Andi Garcia in the third film; she disappears from the plot after she and Greg wake up in the dirt pit.
- Who Names Their Kid "Dude"?: Only hippies. Pam's brother has a good laugh when he asks the trope; "Wait a minute! So your name is gay focker? (laughs) It's an unusual name."
- World of Jerkass: With the exception of Pam and Dina, everyone seems set on making life miserable for Greg.
openDropped a Bridge on Him example Live Action TV
A long while ago I added this example to Recap.Doctor Who S 27 E 13 The Parting Of The Ways:
- Dropped a Bridge on Him: Not to anywhere near the extent of say, the Sixth Doctor's death-by-falling-over or the Eighth Doctor's regeneration not (at the time) being explained at all, but the fact that Rose was able to store the vortex energy for several minutes and only got a headache as a result, while the Doctor is killed by just storing it for a few seconds raised more than a few eyebrows.
Another troper later added this underneath the entry:
- Considering that Rose was able to bring Jack back to life, the Doctor might have been able to heal Rose, but couldn't heal himself.
This resulted in a third troper deleting the entire example with "Repair, Don't Respond" in the edit reason. However, would I be right in thinking that the second-level bullet point was speculative troping, and that the right course of action would have been to just delete that rather than nuking the whole example?
Looking back on it I'm not very happy with how I worded the example in the first place anyway, but just so I'm not engaging in a (very slow-motion) edit war, would I be okay to put the example back in as this:
- Dropped a Bridge on Him: The Doctor's dying as a result of holding the vortex energy in his body for roughly five seconds before he returns it to the TARDIS was seen by some fans as an abrupt and poorly-explained reason for his having to regenerate, especially since it comes right after Rose kept the same energy in her body for several minutes of screentime, while using it to wipe out the Daleks and resurrect Jack.
openRemoving a page redirect Live Action TV
I'm currently working on reworking the Giant Robo page into mediums (i.e. manga for the manga, series for the Toku show, anime for the OVA) instead of clumping every entry on one page. However, the current page for Giant Robo is a redirect to Giant Robo. I don't know how/if I can remove the redirect by myself. Is there a way I can do this, or is mod interference needed?
open 80s Horror/possession TV (mini?) series/film Live Action TV
Right! A little obscure here. 80's British TV show/mini-series/film about a possessed teenage girl. Set in a pretty normal urban British household. Myself and my sister both remember so I know I didn't dream it 😁. I only really remember one scene, the mother comes into the bedroom and the daughter is twisted into a weird pose with a scissors stuck in her shoulder/chest/clavicle. It's wrecking our heads for years here as all both of us can remember is that scene. I've tried many different Google searches and come up with nothing.
I know it's not: Hammer House of Horror/Mystery, Tales of the Unexpected, Dramarama, Ghostwatch, Moondial, Dead of Night.
Cheers
open B99, s6 ep3. Live Action TV
In 'The Tattler' episode, we meet Mike Joseph, a musician wannabee.
(The rest is my opinion, based on body language.)
Initially, he is friendly with Jake, but when Jake shares how active & fulfilling his life is, Mike seems to become bitter because how his carrier isn't going anywhere.
He quickly shifts tones by insisting on talking about Jake's high-school experience as a rejected classmate & he somehow seems amused about the subject, at Jake's expense.
I've read the TVT page of the episode, but I don't feel like there is the trope I am looking for.
So, my question, after giving the context, is, What Is This Trope?
When someone you'd assume to be your friend, doesn't hesitate to lower your self-esteem by digging up all of your insecurities or flaws, just to feel less small about themselves?
And, even in contexts where their reputation isn't in danger, they just don't hesitate to bring into conversations what their 'friend' isn't comfortable with?
Edited by PassionFloweropenSapphire and Steel Word of God Invoked Live Action TV
Paul A removed the "[invoked]" from the Distress Ball example where Word of God was mentioned on Sapphire and Steel, mistakenly thinking it was related to Invoked Tropes and not realizing it was to prevent the unsightly marker from appearing on the main page. I sent them a message explaining it, but they haven't responded and may not realize they had to re-add it themself. Can a mod please re-insert it, as if I did it myself I'd be edit warring?
Edited by NOYBopenFanDisservice Misuse Live Action TV
I noticed on the Recap pages for Breaking Bad that Fan Disservice is listed any time we see Walt naked.
If I'm correct, Fan Disservice is for sexual situations deliberately played up to be disturbing or uncomfortable (like the show's infamous "Happy Birthday, Ted" scene, which ironically wasn't listed anywhere until I added it myself), not "character gets naked in this scene and they're unattractive". The examples don't list why the trope counts, it just says "Walt was naked in this scene." It even lists it for a serious moment where Walt undresses to get in the shower only to pass out on the floor while Skyler tries to talk to him.
Examples:
- "Pilot": Bryan Cranston makes the first of many appearances in his tighty whitey briefs, and it is not pleasant...
- "The Cat's In the Bag": In the opening scene, we see Walt's bottom as he walks naked to the bathroom after sex with Skyler.
- "Bit By a Dead Bee": Once again, Bryan Cranston shows some skin, this time going fully naked (albeit from the back).
- "I See You": Fanservice: Opening scene. For once, it’s Jesse that’s topless, not Walt.
- "Buried": Walt stripping in silence to take a shower, before collapsing on the bathroom floor.
- Walt's character page: Walt sometimes strips down to his tighty whities in order to cook (usually in the first season) or for other reasons, but neither for comedy nor to look pretty. I don't know about that, the scene with Walt naked in the supermarket was pretty funny...
The page for the episode "Peekaboo" lists the trope because of Spooge and his girlfriend (two ugly meth-heads) even though neither are seen naked or in an otherwise sexual situation.
I ran a wick check and couldn't find enough misuse otherwise to justify a TRS thread or a clean-up thread so that's why I'm presenting it here. Cut these examples?
Edited by supernintendo128openLucy Lane = Unintentionally Unsympathetic? Live Action TV
A few days ago, I described Lucy, younger sister of Lois Lane, as Unintentionally Unsympathetic in the YMMV page of Superman & Lois with the following argument:
"An argument can be made that Lucy was treated with a lot of sympathy for someone who willingly betrayed her own family and endangered her own universe in service of a cult leader. Over the course of season 2, Lucy attempts to destroy her sister's reputation, drugs her father to break Ally out of military custody and almost gets Superman (her own brother-in-law) killed but her family doesn't have any hard feelings against her. Further aggravating the issue is that she doesn't suffer any comeuppance for her actions. Sure, she feels guilty for almost getting Superman killed, but it comes off as Lucy repenting her actions when she herself suffers from them. Possibly justified due to the fact that Sam and Lois aren't angry at Lucy but rather at Ally for manipulating Lucy and at themselves for failing Lucy when she needed them most, but it's still notable."
I really don't want to come off as the guy trying to editorialize his opinions and I certainly don't hate Lucy as a character or as a concept. I just don't like what the show did with Lucy.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopenAre these valid Creators Pet entries? Live Action TV
Found these on the YMMV subpage for Once Upon a Time
- Creator's Pet: The four mainstay "villain" characters on the show have all had this accusation thrown at them:
- The producers have openly stated that Regina is by far their favorite character, and their first question about literally any plot idea from the writing staff is "How can we make it about Regina?" This really started to be a problem around Season 3 when the show started treating Regina as a hero, which made her seem like an Easily Forgiven Karma Houdini to many fans. And it got even worse in Season 4 where she wanted to force the Author to write her a new happy ending. And with the 100th episode in Season 5 it's taken Up To Eleven: you would expect the 100th episode to star the main character (Emma), but nope, it's Regina. The finale does go some way into addressing fan concerns though, although Season 6 just broke the base on the matter all over again. Accusations worsened beyond what was thought possible after she is crowned "the Good Queen" over every realm in the series finale.
- Hook has been accused of this because, due to his position as Emma's official love interest, he has gained a more prominent role in the stories than Henry, Snow, or Charming. In Season 5, every main character, including several who have no motivation to do so, choose to risk traveling into the Underworld to bring him back to life, contradicting the previously established rule that the dead cannot be resurrected. Not helping matters is that the resolution to that plot ended with a literal Deus ex Machina that revives him which occurs in an episode that kills Robin permanently and in a way that prevents revival. This occurred after it looked like Hook would stay dead. Love him or hate him, there's little doubt that Hook has received much more preferential treatment from the writers than just about any of the other men in Emma's life, be they former lovers (Neal) or potential love interests (Graham and August).
- And of course, there's Rumplestiltskin / Mr. Gold, who some fans feel has long worn out his welcome by the fifth season and should be considered irredeemable at this point, but who not only continues to stay on the show and in important roles, but more often than not seems to get off scot-free for all of his evil deeds, if not flat-out rewarded with even MORE power. Whether or not he redeemed himself by the series finale is a major point of contention.
- Following her promotion to regular status, Zelena became viewed as this by fans too. While the fifth season gave Zelena her own redemption arc and did a decent job in fleshing her character out enough for more fans to feel sympathy for her, there were a number of fans who questioned if she was being forgiven too easily even by the standards of this show. She has at least expressed remorse for the things she did to Regina, but hasn't actually done the same for all the other people she wronged. Since Zelena's crimes include: manipulating Neal into trading his life to resurrect Rumple, abducting Snow and David's infant son as soon as he was born to use in a magical ritual, potentially killing him, and murdering Robin's lost love Marian in order to masquerade as her, then having sex with Robin (which can be considered rape by fraud) thus producing their daughter — it can be jarring for viewers to see how easily the group accepted Zelena's change without much fuss.
Thing is, I'm not too familiar with the fandom but the show's YMMV entry states that the characters in these entries are Base-Breaking Characters so could someone more familiar with the show's fandom check to see if these entries should be cut? Thanks
openThe100 Moral Event Horizon Question Live Action TV
Copying this from the Moral Event Horizon cleanup thread to get more opinions on these entrys.
Found these entries on the Ymmv subpage for The 100. I’m putting this into a folder due to the length
- Moral Event Horizon:
- Clarke and Bellamy when they torture Lincoln which they did in order to find a cure for a poison that's killing Finn.
- Also Clarke killing that Grounder in Season 1 though justified by the fact she was trying to escape so that she can save Finn but it is the first time she straight up murders somebody as the first time she killed somebody it was a mercy kill and being emotionless when she gives him the "shh" gesture while he falls to the floor dying and later along with the others burning up 300 grounders to defend themselves.
- There is also when, along with Lexa, she doesn't inform everybody in the village that a missile is about to hit and of course when she irradiates Mount Weather by pulling a switch with Bellamy and kills everyone including the children and including the earlier mercy kill of Finn and the guilt of every thing she has done ends up leading to her decision to not return to Camp Jaha and live out into the woods.
- Finn caging up Grounder villagers and then slaughtering eighteen of them when they tried to escape. Subverted because it is implied that he was in a PTSD state when he started shooting and as noted he started shooting because one of them tried to escape but the second one was because he was attempting to attack Finn as a result of the first one's death and it causes mass panic that results in all them trying to escape or attack Finn and in his state he just kept shooting until Clarke arrives to snap him out of it and of course the reason he was on edge in the first place was because he was told that the village was holding Clarke captive by a grounder who wanted revenge on the village and to get Finn to stop torturing him. He ends up feeling guilty about this and it is part of the reason he turns himself into the Grounders who were ready to wipe out the Sky People because they wouldn't turn him in for what he did.
- Tsing was already straddling the line before, but she takes a flying leap over it when the President gets locked away. She stops playing nice and takes them one-by-one, killing them for bone marrow extraction.
- If Cage creating Reapers by injecting Grounders with a drug to make them murderous cannibals didn't push him over the line, then staging a coup so that he can forcibly remove the bone marrow from the teens definitely does.
- Tsing and Cage justify their actions as trying to find a cure for their people's illness and being on a deadline because of radiation leaks. But they are not really justified because they basically enslaved Grounders as Reapers. Killed their 100 captives brutally, just to speed up production of the cure. They had a method to cure the populace that would not kill the 100 but decided it would take too long. Deciding to kidnap more of them to literally butcher them for marrow for their own convenience. In fact another reason they where on a deadline was because their actions forced a Grounder/ 100 alliance and as noted by Kane, the Sky People would have volunteered if asked and they didn't ask just because of the possibility they would say no.
- Pike ordering (and helping carry out) the murder of 299 Trikru Grounders who were there to protect them in cold blood and in "Bitter Harvest", after being told that Lexa would not start a war over his massacre, he doesn't take the reprieve as the one-shot blessing he's been given, and moves right into deciding to take a Grounder village's land to use it for farm land. Then he sentences Kane to be executed because Kane attempted to kidnap him and turn him into the Grounders and he later executes Lincoln who stays behind after Kane and the others escape because Pike threatened to kill the other Grounders prisoners if one of them didn't surrender. Subverted when he later helps in the fight against A.L.I.E and his murder of the Grounders is partially justified by his bad experiences with the Ice Nation that made him distrustful of all Grounders and he believed that they were secretly planning to attack and as stated he sentenced Kane to be executed because he attempted to kidnap him and Lincoln was probably a show of force to show he means business though his killing of Lincoln is what leads to his death.
- Bellamy participating in the massacre of the 299 Trikru grounders sent to protect Arkadia and supporting Pike's anti grounder movement. It is eventually Inverted when he turns against Pike and eventually sees the errors in his choices even then his actions are some what justified by the fact that he wasn't in his right mind because of his grief over the deaths of many people and someone he cared about and his guilt for what he did with Clarke in Mount Weather when they killed the whole population and really not having too many positive experiences with the Grounders to begin with which includes the fact that they have killed several of his people and Lexa abandoning them at Mount Weather that lead to him and Clarke making that decision in the first place.
- Before this in Season 1, there is his attempt to kill Jaha and on the ground telling everyone they can do whatever they want and convincing them to take off their wristbands making the Ark think that they died from radiation and destroying Raven's radios which ends preventing them from stopping the killing of 300 people on the Ark to save life support and led to them shooting flares to try to contact the Ark and the flares end up destroying a village which ends up making the conflict with the grounders worse. Though these actions are justified by the fact he did these things for his sister Octavia to protect her from the Ark's harsh laws and protect himself from getting punished for what he did to Jaha. Also what he did to Jaha was part of a deal so he could get on the drop-ship with Octavia to either die with her so she won't die alone or to be their to protect her on the ground if it turned out to be survivable.
- Jaha not even hesitating to sacrifice one of his disciples to a hungry sea monster is viewed as such by Murphy and when you consider that awhile back he was willing to sacrifice himself so that his people could get to the earth and he also didn't enjoy enforcing the laws of the Ark and started going against them in the end.
- Then in Season 3 he becomes loyal to A.L.I.E and participates in torture and forcing and manipulating people into taking her chip and falling under her control but this is justified by the fact he is under her control too but he was the first one to take the chip and the one who found her in the first place and it is implied that he made some of the decisions on his own.
- A.L.I.E's was when she caused the nuclear strike that destroyed the Earth in the first place and in Season 3 when she mentally tortures Raven in submitting to her because before this she mostly got people to do what she wanted by talking to them through Jaha and getting them to voluntarily taking her chip, but after torturing Raven she generally just starts threatening and torturing people to get her way.
- Ontari was when she killed all the nightblood children in their sleep.
- Octavia in the Season 3 finale when she killed Pike because yes he did kill Lincoln but he did save her life and even then it was straight up cold blooded murder as he wasn't a threat anymore and Kane and the others probably could have still turned him over to the Grounders to make peace. Even then she just did it to make herself feel better and other people she has killed in the past have mostly been in self defense/defense of others and during war. It is also hinted that this may be a Start of Darkness for her in Season 4.
- Clarke in "Die All, Die Merrily," when she takes the bunker while the 12 clans are distracted by the conclave, moves Skaikru inside, and seals the door. In doing so, she leaves Octavia, Kane, Monty, Raven, Murphy, and a handful more of her own people to die. To top it all off, she had Bellamy drugged, abducted, and dragged inside the bunker without his knowledge before shutting it, because she wanted him to survive, despite knowing how he would react to Octavia being left behind.
- Octavia, in Season 5, for several reasons: first, she allows Cooper to experiment on Wonkru people to generate more mutated worms for biological warfare against Diyoza's criminal group in Eden. Then, as the strain of realizing she might never be truly free of the bunker wears on her, as well as the fact that fissures are forming within Wonkru threatening her command, in a last act of spite, and to regain control, she burns down the entire hydroponics section of the bunker even though Monty had proven it could be regenerated. Finally, the origin of the phrase "all of me for all of us" is shown in The Dark Year when she begins — albeit under great stress and after repeated attempts at verbal persuasion — to kill people to force the rest of Wonkru into cannibalism.
- Abby in Season 5 pushed Octavia into enforcing "full compliance", hinting that she needed to force Kane, in particular, to eat the "meat" that was being provided during the Dark Year. Her insistence on having Octavia shoulder that burden had lasting effects on her, pushing Octavia to become Blodreina over increasingly macabre death matches in the fighting pits.
- In Season 6, the leaders of Sanctum, Russell and Simone, jump well past the horizon when they take advantage of Clarke having been immobilized by one of the Children of Gabriel spies in order to implant a chip which completely overwrites her entire brain, in effect "killing" Clarke and replacing her with Josephine Lightbourne. It's especially hypocritical because even Russell objects to some of Josephine's ideas, primarly because she doesn't think consent needs to be obtained for her mad plans to breed more "royal bloods".
Considering that this show has Grey-and-Grey Morality and some of the entries here have fairly sympathetic reasons like being out of options, etc, should some of these entries be cut? Thanks.
Edited by spyland2openSay Yes To The Dress question Live Action TV
I found an entry for The Scrappy on the Say Yes to the Dress page that I must question.
The entry says Randy is very full of himself and makes inappropriate comments toward the brides. In the episodes that I've watched, none of this behavior occurs. He's flamboyant, sure, but he gets along wonderfully with the brides and whomever they've brought along with them. I also looked up reviews for the show and people seem to agree: Randy is a decent guy who really cares about helping others.
Since YMMV is a general opinion and not just one person's (in this case, mine), I'd like to know other's thoughts on this. Should the entry be removed, reworked, or kept?
Edited by HMSquaredopen trope: seer can't accurately interpret visions? Live Action TV
is there a trope where a seer or psychic can see into the future accurately but can't properly interpret it?
ex: like that episode in that's so raven when she has to get a good grade on her school project to go to a concert with her crush. she has a vision of herself boppin' to some music, so she interprets it as proof she'll pass and get to go to the concert. she ends up failing and it turns out her vision is her dancing to music in her room while her crush stands outside playing the song on a radio.
openIndexing Law and Order episodes Live Action TV
Apologies in advance if I missed something, a thread, a how to, but my searches have been fruitless. I am filling in Law and Order episode recaps, but I don't know how to index them once they are created. I've been able to self teach and learn from other posts, but this one I'm stuck on.
openDetective with a Twist? Live Action TV
I've seen a lot of shows & movies where the main character is a cop/detective/'helps the police' who is a ghost, vampire, zombie, android, dog, dinosaur, immortal, Satan, and many, many more. How would you classify this trope? I think it isn't quite the same as "Wunza Plot" or "They Fight Crime!" since it's specifically regarding the character herself as a sort of "detective with a twist" type rather than her relationship with another different, possibly more normal character (although that does often play a role).
Edit: I stumbled onto the page for "The Exotic Detective" which I think is the answer I was looking for.
Edited by kedarguruopenNo Title Live Action TV
I know the rule "fix it yourself" but since I've never seen Firefly, I have no idea what's true within the four-bulleted argument/natter on the Photographic Memory page:
- River Tam from Firefly exhibits this when she memorizes the exact locations and cover arrangements of three soldiers in a room and shoots all three in rapid succession, a bullet to each, with her eyes closed.
River: No power in the 'Verse can stop me.
- That only required her to memorize three points, and retain that memory for a few seconds.
- Remember them exactly and then unerringly hit them in an instantly fatal spot. She captured their exact location and stance in an instant. Let's see you try that - with a Nerf gun, though. Shooting people is generally frowned upon.
- Not only that, but she also spun her body around. She was facing them when she saw them, got shot at and ducked in behind cover, picked up Kaylee's gun, stood up and then spun her clockwise, extending her left arm, while her eyes were still closed. She would have had to not only remember exactly where the guys were, but also calculate the exact angle she turned her body, how high she should point her arm (and the gun) in relative position to how far clockwise she spun her body.
Kaylee: Not even the captain could make a shot like that!- This is more a case of perfect coordination than perfect memory. You could set up basketball goals all around someone with perfect memory, but that doesn't mean they'd make every shot with their eyes closed.
- Possibly photographic memory (for locking the position of the targets in her mind), perfect coordination (to be able to move and attack with the necessary precision to the image in her mind) AND perfect calculation (for the position, trajectory of the bullets, possibly deviations, etc; she can kill you with maths)
- That only required her to memorize three points, and retain that memory for a few seconds.
Could someone who knows Firefly better please help out? Again, I would love to do it myself but I have little knowledge of the show. Another question, is this the right thread to ask for this type of thing or should I have put this in the discussion section of Photographic Memory?
open No consensus on page Live Action TV
Myself and another troper are having difficulty reaching consensus regarding definitions of Anti-Villain or {{Wild Card)) in relations to Ward. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Characters.MCUHYDRALeadership
the debate has reached agreements on some definitions and stuck on others. Both are us agree to disagree in the most polite of ways but both seeking closure. We both have given what we feel are good points just trying to reach consensus.
openNo Title Live Action TV
On The Walking Dead TV Show Main Characters, gonzalo deleted the note about not allowing Zero Context Examples and un-commented ZCE entries, after being told explicitly that wiki policy prohibited them when he previously uncommented ZCE entries (saying that they were self-evident), including being given a pointer to the thread on the subject.
Edited by Nohbody

A while back, someone greatly expanded the filmography section of Creator.Pedro Pascal, with roles previously unmentioned and/or lacking their own pages. Some of these include instances of him playing himself in something nonfictional, or narrating a documentary. Do these usually go on actors' pages?
Today I removed a credit for him hosting SNL, because I noticed pages for actors who've hosted more than once don't mention it in the filmography.