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openLiterature/Molesworth Literature
molesworth... The entire page reads like a Self-Demonstrating article. Said self demonstrating includes a ton a grammar and spelling errors. The Fanfic Recs and Trivia pages have the same problem.
openCan't find my work page in the search engine Literature
Hi! I just posted a new work page (see link below). Yet when I type "That Irresistible Poison" into the search engine, I see a lot of pages unrelated to the book. The search engine does show the history page of my edits at the top of the results, though. Typing "That Irresistible Poison Alessandra Hazard" leads to just the history page of my edits, but not the work page itself. Does anyone know why? I already have the Page Type set to Work, and have Indexed it under Queer Romance, Queer Media, and Literature of the 2010s.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/ThatIrresistiblePoison
Thanks so much!
open (RESOLVED) nattery wall-o'-text on Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Energy Literature
Half the Literature folder on SciFiWritersHave.No Sense Of Energy is currently comprised of a nattery, Example Indentation-noncompliant Wall of Text about the Incredible Cross-Sections firepower numbers controversy in Star Wars Legends (which admittedly I contributed to over a decade ago when I was young and stupid).
Fixing it would be a major change that I think probably could use some extra sets of eyes, but couldn't find a good cleanup thread for this to go in, so I figured I'd come here.
- In one of the Star Wars Legends technical manuals (now non-canon along with the rest of Star Wars Legends), a starfighter's main guns are about 1/200,000,000th the power of a capital ship's heavy guns, and yet starfighters still try to shoot at enemy capital ships like they can do more than annoy the enemy captain by obstructing his view out the bridge. The series that book belongs to throws out words like kilotons for starfighter weaponry, megatons for Slave-1's weaponry, hundreds of gigatons each shot for capital scale weaponry, and the latter being powered by reactors with the energy output of a star. All this for weapons which, for the films that they're detailing, display yields that rarely stack up to the more extreme episodes of MythBusters and are outdone by modern heavy cruise missiles. The light ion cannons the size of mortars on the Invisible Hand are supposedly throwing out as much heat as a 4.8 megaton thermonuclear bomb, which is strange when compared to the Hoth Ion cannon, a weapon that disabled an Imperial Star Destroyer in a handful of shots and yet didn't produce enough heat to melt the surrounding snow. In general, you could probably knock off about six orders of magnitude on anything written in those books and you'd still get way too much. Supposedly, these represent the maximum yields, but because nothing like these figures occur in the movies and there are multiple times when using even a percentage of these maximum yields would prevent ship-wide destruction, where do these numbers come from?
- In general, all of the Star Wars films basically depict combat as being World War II IN SPACE!. This extends to firepower. Fighter cannons can hit the ground a few meters from foot soldiers without harming them, while main gun batteries on capital ships seldom display effects beyond a few tons of TNT- which is roughly in line with World War II era battleship guns, albeit with a higher rate of fire and effective range. There's even a famous scene in Return of the Jedi where the kinetic energy (plus whatever explosives were still on-board) of a crashing kamikaze fighter was able to cripple a Star Destroyer by destroying its bridge, something that would be completely impossible if these things were routinely trading shots with ships capable of depopulating a planet with a single salvo. These numbers have been made even more ridiculous in hindsight by material that came out after the Disney buyout. For example, the Last Jedi art book depicts a strategic-scale (i.e. orders of magnitude more powerful than regular guns) plasma bomb carried by the Free Virgillia-class corvettes as being the size of a building... yet "only" having a 100 megaton yield (which makes these bombs, per area, less efficient than the Tsar Bomba). For reference, by Saxton's old numbers, any single Acclamator-class ship (which are the size of heavy cruisers) had 12 turbolaser cannons each capable of dishing out 200 gigatons per shot. So basically, a ship not much bigger than the Virigillia-class could dish out 2,400 gigatons or the equivalent of 24,000 strategic-scale plasma bombs, every second, continuously. Imagine that every ship in the U.S. Navy had an autocannon that shoots the equivalent of 24,000 nuclear missiles a second and you start to see how ridiculous this idea is.
- However, the author of these works, Dr. Curtis Saxton, is an astrophysicist and so by any right should have a very good understanding of the yields being described. Unfortunately, there is controversy surrounding the author's relationship with those in the online "versus debate" community, which, if true, would mean that the author didn't so much screw up the math as deliberately misrepresent it. Another scientist and Star Wars fan/contributor, Gary Sarli, analyzed Saxton's work and came to very different conclusions. Particularly one of Saxton's most influential calculations, which not only vastly overestimated how much damage needed to be done to fulfill a certain operation ("Base Delta Zero", glassing a planet, in other wordsnote A big part of Sarli's argument pointed out that the original description in the Imperial Sourcebook limited itself, relatively speaking, to wiping out the planet's assets of production, like factories, arable lands, mines, fisheries, and all sentient beings and droids, which, while on a planetary scale is definitely impressive, wouldn't necessarily mandate slagging literally everything on the surface or vaporizing the oceans unless the commander was in a particularly vindictive mood, nor would it have to do so by itself, in under an hour. For context, the entire world nuclear arsenal (more than enough to wipe out all major cities and industry) totals 1.5 gigatons. Ten times that number should easily be able to kill nearly every human on Earth. Melting off all the Earth's crust and vaporizing all its oceans, on the other hand?
7 exatons or 7,000,000,000 gigatons.).
- And on the third hand, proponents of the ICS numbers point out that they are several orders of magnitude less than what you'd get simply by down-scaling from the Death Star, which has been calculated from screen evidencehow? Measure how long it took the planet to double in diameter after being shot (0.83 seconds), and do the math assuming Alderaan has the same properties as Earth. For the math, see these
links
. to produce a minimum of 1E38 joules, roughly the energy that the Sun produces in eight thousand years when firing a planet-busting shot. That puts the Empire well into Type II on the Kardashev scale. By the same token, there are those who think that Saxton did the above calculations and then gave their shipboard weapons numbers that he would have expected a Type II civilization to have. Of course, both the EU and the new Disney continuity specified that the Death Star's power came from Kyber crystals, making its showing completely irrelevant to anything that doesn't also use Kyber crystals.
- And critics will counter that there are a lot of weird effects for that to be purely a brute-force weapon, like the existence of a two-stage explosion and a Planar Shockwave. And since the Death Star novel came out, they've either retconned or clarified that the superlaser uses an exotic reaction that causes large parts of the planet to shift into hyperspace (presumably in a violent manner, since vessels with hyperdrives can do so without exploding), causing the planet to blow itself up.
- (separate unrelated example about Vulture droids I added yesterday)
- Star Wars Legends:
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to be wildly out of scale with the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith). Saxton was even accused at times of making up inflated numbers to help Star Wars "win" the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny with Star Trek (he was a participant in sci-fi debating groups on the Internet at the time the books came out). Other debaters argued that some of his calculations were rooted in faulty assumptions, for example that the Orbital Bombardment involved in a Base Delta Zero operation wasn't intended to be at the Earth-Shattering Kaboom level a la Exterminatus, but just to destroy population centers and military sites. The argument was ultimately rendered moot when the Legends continuity was ended.
- (unrelated Vulture droid example)
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to be wildly out of scale with the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact. Saxton has shown where his calculations came from: primarily the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan, the concept of Base Delta Zero from West End Games' Imperial Sourcebook, and shots from The Empire Strikes Back of star destroyers blowing up asteroids said to be nickel-iron in Alan Dean Foster's novelization; however, other debaters such as Gary Sarli have questioned some of his underlying assumptions. The whole thing was ultimately rendered moot after Legends was decanonized, with the efficacy of Orbital Bombardment in particular dramatically scaled down in Disney canon reference books.
Third draft:
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to significantly inflated compared to the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); for reference, the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact
. Saxton has shown where his calculations came from;note primarily the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan, the concept of Base Delta Zero from West End Games' Imperial Sourcebook, and shots from The Empire Strikes Back of star destroyers blowing up asteroids said to be nickel-iron in Alan Dean Foster's novelization however, other debaters such as Gary Sarli have questioned some of his underlying assumptions.note e.g. whether "Base Delta Zero" involves glassing an entire planet For the Evulz or just destroying mission-critical population centers Due to his author's notes thanking various members of online "versus debating" communities, Saxton has also been accused of deliberately inflating his numbers to "win" arguments over whether Star Wars factions would beat Star Trek factions in a war.
- The Incredible Cross-Sections reference books for the Star Wars prequel trilogy, written by physicist Dr. Curtis Saxton, became quite controversial for giving energy numbers that to some readers appeared to significantly inflated compared to the film special effects: for example, maximum yields of 200 gigatons on the turbolasers of Acclamator-class troop transports (Attack of the Clones) and 10 teratons for Venator-class star destroyers (Revenge of the Sith); for reference, the latter number is about 10% of the estimated yield of the Chicxulub meteorite impact
open AdmiralDT8 vandalising a page. Literature
A user going by the name AdmiralDT8 has vandalised Loyalty Among Worlds and deleted the YMMV and the Trivia articles for that fanfiction. It is unknown if this is really AdmiralDT8 himself doing this or the work of a troll. If it turns out to be the former, then this is a funny case of Dear Negative Reader
Profile here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/AdmiralDT8
openLiterature/Survivors, Too Dumb To Live Example Literature
On Literature/Survivors, there is this example of Too Dumb to Live:
"The other dogs, from Lucky's point of view (and probably the readers' as well). Individual dogs' antics include going back into a house they just established was filled with carbon monoxide (especially since it had caused the one dog to become unconscious and they had just rescued her), swimming too far out in the river after Lucky had just warned them about it being deep and fast, and one dog trying to put a collar back on after he'd gotten it caught on a bush and nearly choked himself to death."
Now, there are... problems with this example. One, in the book proper, the Leashed Dogs (pet dogs) agree to hold on to one memento as a reminder of their longpaws. (human owners) Of course, this means returning to the houses to get them. Daisy, the one who lived in the house that now has a gas leak, holds her breath as she goes in, knowing the second time around that she shouldn't inhale the toxins. Two, while I don't recall enough to talk about the example with the river, I do know that in a later book, Lucky is actually grateful that the Leashed Dogs kept their collars on, as it saved one dog's (Mickey's, who was the one who almost choked to death in the first place) life.
So, what should we do about this example? In fact, the page could use a little cleaning up, with the series still having new entries being written.
openCreate parent universe trope? Literature
I built the Threadbare and Small Medium entries regarding series by Andrew Seiple set in the common universe of Generica Online. I occasionally find myself copy-pasting entries to both pages when I find a trope common to the universe in general. To use a mildly trivial example, the world has an in-universe Cap on class levels (due to the world being associated in some way with an MMORPG) that has in-story effects. I could list that the cap exists on both works pages, but it seems to make more sense to put it on a Generica Online page.
openCan I trope my autobiography? Literature
I'd like to create a trope page for my self-published autobiography Andy's Nature: Asperger's, Obesity and the Supernatural. Would this be allowable? If so, could I link it to my You Tube channel? The channel is linked to my website, which in turn is linked to the book's Amazon page, and I understand commercial links are forbidden on TVT.
open Jana Whitaker in YOLO (internet girls #4) Literature
does she cut or she depressed? (ie. there's a part in yolo that says something like "why would jana post about almost cutting herself?" she gained a lot of weight, and the status updates the winsome threesome report on her, are very upsetting?)
openFanfic Rec pages formatting Literature
Is there a consensus on how to format a Fanfic Rec page besides the basics? LunaSlashSea has added a lot of three or even six full paragraph spaces to fic rec pages that aren't used on other pages, as well as divider lines (----) between every fic. It looks fine on the page itself but when going into the editor it's kinda messy, mainly for the big gaps.
FanficRecs.Hades and FanficRecs.Hadestown have those attributes, while FanficRecs.Slay The Princess and FanficRecs.Doki Doki Literature Club don't, for comparison.
Edited by lalalei2001open"Meta" Take A Third Option Literature
Not even sure where such questions belongs, so asking here. Let's start with a backstory, cause I likely wouldn't be able to explain properly without it.
Two writers, both writing about the same topic (let's call them Alice and Bob for now) were arguing about one element of Alice-created world, which Alice considered "unavoidable evil", and Bob considered, basically, Moral Event Horizon.
They chose to dispute it by writing a short story (a non-canon crossover between their worlds), with each side taking turns and writing their parts from their characters' point of view, and defending their position. They never came to an agreement and... let's just say, those two are no longer friends.
But some time later, another author (let's call him Charlie) came to Alice and offered to write another short story, where that issue finally was resolved... by Taking a Third Option to the original conflict. Even "Alice" himself calls it such on his site (where he hosts all his works).
And here comes the issue. As far as I understand, "meta" examples aren't allowed at all? But in that case, what other way it may be mentioned? Aforementioned conflict and finding an alternate solution to it is the entire reason why the short story was written in the first place, but they don't share continuity.
openDoes this fanfic example even exist? Literature
So, in the "The Reason You Suck" Speech page, specifically the section for crossover fanfics, there are two fics that confuse me: Fire & Ice, a crossover between Frozen and The Hobbit, and The Transformers My Little Pony Crossover 2, a crossover between... well, you know. Now, if you look at the examples each fic gives, you'll notice that both speeches are practically the same thing, even ending on the whole "You will die for wasting my time". Now, the thing that confuses me is that, whereas the MLP/Transformers fic has a link to the fic itself, Fire & Ice doesn't, so I have no idea to confirm whether or not it exists.
openFire and Blood Designated Hero Literature
I feel like the YMMV for Fire and Blood calling Jaehaerys a Designated Hero is wrong and should be removed because 1) Jaehaerys did plenty of legitimately great things for Westeros. 2) It was Baelon who let Alyssa humiliate Vaegon in the training yard. 3) Jaehaerys sending Vaegon to the Citadel was something Vaegon himself was happy to do. 4) Saera and her male consorts were legitimately awful people and Jaehaerys treated his daughter very well until he learned of her many misdeeds. 5) Jaehaerys had a good argument as to why trying to bring back Saera from Lys would cause nothing but trouble and correctly guessed that his daughter wanted nothing more to do with her family. 6) Arranged marriages like the ones Daella and Viserra had are commonplace amongst Westeros nobility. And 7) Westeros is an inherently male oriented culture and Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys as his successor, while sexist, would be the expected choice for him to make.
Edited by ChubzhacopenPoorly-written page Literature
I see a lot of bad writing in A Girl Who Brought Down the World, such as misusing the spoiler tags. Are the spoiler tags the only problem that you notice, or does the page itself need a bigger cleanup?
Edited by MitchellProductionsopenWhen can I add my work? Literature
Hello fellow Tropers!
So I have a novel due for publication on 9/4/2018 through a small press and wanted to make a page for it. I've been staying away from any YMMV tropes because it felt a bit narcissistic to try and point out a "Crowning moment of Awesome" or "Tear Jerker" lol. I wondered about two things
1. Is there a way of creating a draft of a page? I wanted to work on it on my downtime but would prefer to not make it visible until the publication date.
2. I mentioned the YMMV tropes being avoided earlier, are there more types of tropes you would recommend I don't add myself as the writer of the book?
Thank you!
openWhat's in a name? (and a blank page) Literature
Hey everyone.
I wanted to create a fan fiction page for a story that I really enjoyed, and I'm thoroughly looking on the How to Create a Works Page. But for the life of me I can't find a good blank page to write on.
I'm not asking anyone to do this job for me, but where can I find one? Or do I create one by myself.
Thanks.
openImmortals Fear Death example? Literature
I have a question regarding whether an scene in Chronicles of Chaos about an army of four different immortal factions are all taken aback when faced with a Army of the Dead and either fled or stopped counts as example of this trope, since it's a rather literal example but the point of the narration seems to be that they find death itself a fearful, unnatural or and incomprehensible concept, the text in the book goes likes this:
- Yet even they, yet even they were held back by one more terrible still: the great lord whom I will not name, the Unseen One, the Lord of the House of Woe, came forth that day in all his horror, opened the hell-gate, and drove his armies of shadow before him; the dead walked, and the Great Fear was at hand: the dreamlords shrieked and fled like mist; the Fallen spirits cowered, aetherial spear and shield a-tremble in their airy hands; and the cold brains of the war-machines of the Lost would not open fire with their planet-destroying weapons without the support of their allies. Even the deathless Titans of your timeless people, the prelapsarians, were astonished, and they paused, even though they could not be made afraid.
So what do you think? I know this usually goes in the discussion pages, and I opened a one, but no one answered.
Edited by Revival_ZeroopenUnfinished subpages Literature
Characters.Alex Rider was split into multiple subpages, but the creator of the subpages hardly bothered to move content that used to be in the main character page to their appropriate, respective subpages.
I'd fix it myself, but I'm uncertain which goes where as I haven't actively kept up with the series in a long while.
Subpages:
Edited by Tenma-YuukiopenWhen is Spider-Man and Superman gonna get a self demonstrating article Literature
Question supes and spidey had one, but now they dont could this change one day?
openRed links to the Back to the Future novel Literature
Lately, I've been seeing links to the article for George Gipe's novelization of Back to the Future as a Red Link, like so. However, the page itself is still intact. Worried about the page being cut, I took no chances and moved all of the examples from that page to the page for B to the F: The Novelization of the Feature Film in case. I checked the Recent Cuts page
, but it's not there. I checkd the Cut List page
, but it's not there either. Can someone tell me whether it's actually being cut or not?

(The original entry is two bullets at the bottom of LONG list of "teen dystopia" sub-genre entry)
Ignoring how it's include as Trope Codifier (But is it? The note only claims it "started the trend more properly", not how it codifies the genre), the fact that it outright say "its author being very fond of deconstructor fleets" make me think it's more of "early deconstruction" than actual Unbuilt Trope.
Edited by Kuruni