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Ask the Tropers:
open Mod revert on fanfic?
Can I get a mod revert on The Boy Without a Fairy? I had added an alternate link (no pun intended) to the story and revised the description slightly but SneakyHint's edit seems to have overlapped mine, and they added a bunch of ZCEs. I don' want to re-add it myself as that'd be an edit war.
EDIT: Nevermind, the ZC Es are gone now.
Edited by lalalei2001openCurb-Stomp Battles of Death Battle Web Original
It's come to recent attention that the Curb-Stomp Battle page for DEATH BATTLE! has a lot of issues. The page lists a lot of fights as examples, to the point that literally every episode from season six is listed. However, the entries seem to only focus on the post-fight analysis that determined the winner and not how the actual fight played out. The fight itself could be portrayed as pretty even, only for the analysis to point out the discrepancy between the two fighters.
Even if the hosts explain the fight was actually pretty close, those matches will still be listed because the victor had the advantage, which seems like misuse. I tried to clean up entries
that were listed as "downplayed", but they were simply added back
with slight alterations that the hosts were just explaining the loser's strengths. I think the page should focus on the fights themselves, and not rely solely on the post-fight wrap-up. At the very least, the page needs a clean-up.
openFanFic/KyodainaSentaiManukeranger
So while I was indexing a different fic in Fanfics of the 2010s, I checked out Kyodaina Sentai Manukeranger because the work it was a fanfic of wasn't listed, and hoo boy...
- The namespace is miscapitalized
- There is no work summary, only "Needs Wiki Magic Love."
- What the fanfic is based off of isn't listed either
- The work link goes to some deviant art page for the fanfic and not the actual first chapter of the fic itself
- ZCEs out the wazoo
- A YMMV page with misused Ho Yay and a random out of place piece of trivia about the fanfic
Aaaaannnddd it was last edited two years ago. Help.
openNightmare Fuel Vanity Plate recreated without permission
See here. The page was cut back in 2017.
While I do think the page should be restored, not only was this without approval, but it's also.......not the way to do it. The namespaces are weird (no spaces between words, making the name look awkward and also causing it to use the generic background rather than the Nightmare Fuel background), most of the links (both potholes and links to videos) are gone, the image has a much bigger box to the sides of it and the page itself isn't even finished, with a note asking to help recreate everything.
Edited by KingofNightmaresopenSelf-Pimping Webcomic
Very new account goliberalart
has only been making edits pertaining to the webcomic of the same name. Unsure if this is a problem, but it's certainly noticeable.
openMemetic Loser misused (again)?
- Avatar Kuruk. He was a lazy Avatar who was more interested in flirting with girls, showing off, and playing pai sho than he was being the Avatar. He’d finally started to get serious and then got his wife’s face stolen by Koh and then died himself at the ripe old age of 33. Not helping matters is the fact that he’s Avatar Kyoshi’s, the Memetic Badass of the universe, predecessor. She spends most of her novel cleaning up his messes and even she doesn’t really respect him too much.
- Captain Phasma from the same movie also gets this. Pre-release materials set her up to be a mysterious chrome badass, but in the movie she ended up doing nothing but ordering stormtroopers around before she was easily captured by rebels and thrown down a garbage chute. She ended up being completely upstaged in popularity by Nines, a random stormtrooper who yelled "Traitor!" and beat the shit out of a lightsaber-wielding Finn with nothing but a stun baton. The Last Jedi didn't help her cred much since, after coming back with a vengeance, she got defeated in an anti climactic fight against both Finn and Rose (by using the oldest trick in the book, nonetheless) and seemingly falls to her death.
- Rogue One: Director Krennic. His character arc in the movie can be very accurately summed up as "Krennic gets yelled at by his superiors for two hours" or "Krennic has a very bad day". Even in-universe Darth Vader clearly sees him as an incompetent loser, an opinion rather well supported by Krennic showing up at Vader's home on Mustafar in the middle of the morning to bitch about a coworker (Tarkin).
- The Last Jedi: The MG-100 Star Fortress SF-17 bomber, whose only screentime in the movie has a wing of them getting blown up in the process of destroying a First Order Star Dreadnought; in particular, a single TIE Fighter crashing into one Star Fortress leads to a chain reaction that sends several of them up in flames. As a result, they're seen as worse flying coffins than TIE Fighters.
- Its director himself, Rian Johnson. A popular meme mocking his infamous writing-style is "If Rian Johnson Directed [...]" - where an iconic part from another film abruptly ends in an absurd Anti-Climax/Shocking Swerve.
- Avatar Kuruk. He was a lazy Avatar who was more interested in flirting with girls, showing off, and playing pai sho than he was being the Avatar. He’d finally started to get serious and then got his wife’s face stolen by Koh and then died himself at the ripe old age of 33. Not helping matters is the fact that he’s Avatar Kyoshi’s, the Memetic Badass of the universe, predecessor. She spends most of her novel cleaning up his messes and even she doesn’t really respect him too much.
Memetic Loser is about unfairly exaggerated loser reputations, this is all objective loserdom. Expect for Rain Johnson who's noted to be memetic, but I find applying it to a real life individual suspect of complaining. Cut? Does this trope warrant a cleanup thread yet?
openWayyyy too many empty lines (yes, pun intended)
Wayyyy has sorted examples in sevaral pages, which by itself is a great contribution to the wiki.
However, there's a major issue that comes along with this sorting, and it's that examples are now spaced out by empty lines. I replied them asking them not to add these lines, but they refused to do so, arguing that it makes the examples "easier to read". These spaces are making the trope pages too awkward-looking and large, and the fact the troper won't stop doing this comes off as disruptive.
openTLP laconics
A little while ago, I came to ATT to get help because Lord Gro was adamant that the slightly-ambiguous wordering of my laconic meant the TLP itself wasn't ready to launch, despite people pointing out that TLP laconics aren't even used after launching (meaning their sole purpose is to exist on the TLP itself and most people only use them because a bug forces them to
).
I thought it was all resolved, but now they're complaining about the laconic on One Mistake, Endless Mockery
. Now, nothing big has really happened yet, and I'll fully admit that I have a bad habit of sparking bigger arguments than I'd really like, but I'm bringing this up now to bring attention to the subject, as it seems they feel that TLP Laconics are real laconics and need to be as carefully crafted as actual laconics are, and this is the second time they've started bickering over it.
Hell, I'll freely agree that the laconic it currently has isn't ideal- but the issue is over whether or not TLP laconics need this much attention despite that they don't launch with the trope itself, and the potential for this to turn into another big issue. I just want this to be handled and discussed without it turning into a flame war like the other debate did.
Edited by WarJay77openForum thread going off-topic
I'm worried that the Marvel Cinematic Universe forum thread is starting to be filled with posts that don't have anything to do with the MCU itself.
I had sent a holler for this post
, as it was talking about DC Comics stuff instead of Marvel.
openRequest to remove natter from a page
Not long ago, slimeshady added a lot of natter regarding negativity and confirmation bias to the Pokemon stadium Computer is a cheating bastard page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard/PokemonStadium
. Other than the fact that what they added has absolutely nothing to do about the page/trope itself, but the info is completely pointless because by his own logic, anything in a video game is negativity or confirmation bias. By his logic, stuff like That One Boss That One Level and That One Sidequest shouldn't exist either because it can interpreted as such.
Would there be any objections to me reverting the page to what it was before he added all of what he said?
Edited by KamonTheSkunkopenCharacter Derailment?
Questions about these Character Derailment examples.
- Total Drama All-Stars Rewrite does this to Cody due to the authors having an immense hatred for the character. In canon, Cody was indeed a perverted dweeb with hopeless delusions of being a cool ladies man, but despite that, he was also a nice and friendly person who was very much capable of being respectful and gentlemanly when he wanted his beloved to be happy (as was the case when Gwen hooked up with Trent, which he actually helped with making happen). In this story, he has none of his redeeming qualities and is instead depicted as a dirty liar and a selfish Jerkass whose aforementioned I Want My Beloved to Be Happy moment was secretly a shallow attempt by him to make Gwen like him even more.
If it's a rewrite, that's Adaptation Personality Change. And how is Derailment different than Ron the Death Eater here?
- Along with mass Flanderization, Seasons 4-9 of SpongeBob SquarePants were hit by this very hard, until Stephen Hillenburg's return to the show:
- Patrick got progressively dumber as the series went on. He goes from average intelligence in the first season to The Ditz in season 2 and 3 to virtually brain-dead in season 4 and onwards. He also became more of a Jerkass on occasion.
- Mr. Krabs goes from greedy and selfish, but still good, to a Jerkass with little to no good qualities who often puts others and himself in danger just to get some cash, and even tortured Plankton until he tried to commit suicide. It doesn't help that he gets away with most of his crimes.
- In the first three seasons, Sandy is a daredevil who is skilled in a variety of sports, including skiing, karate and weightlifting. Then in season 4 she suddenly became a scientist, and much of her characterization and humor started to revolve around her intellect and inventions.
I belive Flanderization is exempt from this trope as it is a gradual change based on existing traits as opposed abrupt and inexplicable. The last part about Mr. Krabs is irrelevant and shows it more about complaining than this trope.
- In My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Twilight Sparkle is a kind, moral and intelligent individual who is protective of her friends, to the point where she was willing to hand over godlike power to a malevolent demon so he'd let them go. In the IDW My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic comic, she's possessed of an extremely arbitrary and obstructive morality that she'd do things like not intervene when her friends were getting assaulted, or not intervene when a bunch of thugs were terrorizing a town, or scold her friends when they tear up a legal document that the aforementioned thugs were using to acquire a piece of property despite their blatant campaign of terror against the townsfolk that should get them laughed out of court, or concocting a plan that involves them kidnapping and impersonating the notary to commit fraud so she would have an excuse to use her magic.
- Iron Will during the "Siege of the Crystal Empire" arc. In the show, and previous IDW comic he appeared in, he's a pretty nice guy who left both times on good terms with the mane six and was generally a nice guy, if a tad aggressive. Here he's part of a Legion of Doom dedicated to helping resurrect King Sombra. Even assuming he was unaware of the King Sombra part, other members of the team up include the Changelings and Queen Chrysalis (enemies of state who have tried several times to destroy Equestria), and the plan involves him stealing the Crystal Heart needed to protect the Empire and keep it safe from harm. He does so proudly and openly enjoys doing so.
I'm inclined to agree, but these aren't unexplained (Twilight has the never before mention law against acting, Iron Will wanted to be feared to regain his reputation as an assertiveness teacher). The explanations are poor, contrived, unpopular, and inconsistent with everything else, but it tried to explain it. Since derailment is about unexplained changes insufficiently explained changes seems too subjective and better moved to Fan-Disliked Explanation.
- Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell derails Trixie in great length. Word of God claims the book is canon to the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic continuity after the season 3 final. However her portayal is rather jarring. In season 1, Trixie was a pretentious magician boasting that she's the greatest magician in all Equestria. At the end she has to flee Ponyville when her exploits are revealed to be made up. It's noteworthy to mention she was also a controversial example of Designated Villain and Unintentionally Sympathetic since many viewers feel like she did nothing wrong before Rainbow Dash started booing to her performance. She comes back in season 3 as an antagonist, we learned that after the event in season one, she became a laughingstock and was unable to go anywhere with her magic show without being laughed out of town. She goes back to Ponyville with a powerful artifact to seek revenge on Twilight. At the very end Trixie realizes her faults and makes peace with Twilight Sparkle. Comes this book, Trixie is again resentful toward Twilight, is described as a bully and teams up with Gilda to replace Applejack's cider with gloopy green gunk for the sake of it.
This would be an example, except it is consistent with her next portrayal on the show of still being a rival with Twilight Sparkle having similarly ignored her realization there, even making ignoring Aesops part of her character. That she had learned it then was speculation that was Jossed. What do we do in the case where "derailments" turn out to be Accidentally Correct Writing.
I'd say Character Derailment could use a cleanup. But since it's Flame Bait, why do we even allow examples when no other Flame Bait page does? I think they were added before we disallowed Flame Bait examples.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenMore Spoiler Problems
I posted this issue a while back
, but Gideoncrawle is getting mad at me again. Here's his message:
"On the Predator and Prey page, you recently added an example of Saying Too Much that had the example text completely spoilered out (when spoilering out two or three words would have sufficed) in violation of this site's spoiler policy. Dude, we've been over this. Spoilering out all, or substanially all, of an example's text is NEVER allowed, because it defeats the purpose of adding the example in the first place. You know this, or should know it, so continuing to post fully-spoilered examples comes across as open defiance of this site's policies. Seriously, are you trying to get suspended? If you're really that concerned about spoilers, wiki policy allows for putting a warning at the top of the examples list, stating "You may encounter unmarked spoilers", or words to that effect. If we do that, though, then the page is not allowed to have any spoiler tags at all, because they would be redundant. We're here to trope works, not advertise them; and hiding all the details to shield people who "haven't read the fic yet" is an advertiser's mindset. The vast majority of people who read a work article on this wiki will never read/view the work itself, so those are the people you should be writing examples for."
Is this legitimately how spoiler policy works with fanfiction?
Rein this man in. He's running the fan works page like a tyrant.
Edited by MagnusForceopenI'm not sure where to put this? Videogame
Mother 3 has a Player Punch entry that is way too long for its own good.
- Player Punch: A lot.
- In Chapter 1, in a series built around the protagonist usually having a close relationship with their mother during their adventure, it goes against the series expectations that Hinawa, Lucas's mother, is killed very violently.
- You then play the first chapter as Hinawa's husband, Flint. Upon finding out about her death, he goes into a terrifying Heroic BSoD, lashing out at other people in the village until he has to be knocked unconscious in order to be subdued. You then get the lovely experience of becoming Tazmily Jail's first prisoner.
- Claus, Lucas's twin brother, then goes out into the mountains to try and avenge Hinawa. He fails.
- As it turns out, the animal responsible for killing Hinawa was a Drago, a perfectly harmless creature Lucas used to be friends with. It's been "reconstructed" by a strange group of men wearing pig masks, making it aggressive and mindless.
- Oh, and who's in charge of all these Pigmasks? Why, Porky Minch, naturally.
- In Chapter 2, you play as a thief named Duster. And, let's just say, his father is not very satisfied by his thieving abilities.
- In Chapter 3, you play as a monkey named Salsa. He's getting routinely abused by a member of the Pigmask army named Fassad. He spends the chapter being forced to help them with their evil deeds, since his girlfriend is being held captive for leverage.
- In Chapter 4, three years have gone by. Let's just say, one of the biggest RPG cliches of all time has been... horrifyingly subverted.
- Then, at the end of the chapter, when the DCMC sing their goodbyes to "Lucky". It's for the greater good, but you'll feel really terrible for finally getting your last party member.
- Chapter 6. Lucas chases Hinawa's ghost through a field of sunflowers, which are associated with her. It ends with you essentially making Lucas attempt suicide.
- In Chapter 7, you find out about these Plot Coupons called the Seven Needles. Only Lucas and the commander of the Pigmask army, The Masked Man, are capable of pulling them. If Lucas pulls them, the world will be reborn anew and everything will be good and pure. If the Masked Man pulls them, the world will cease to exist.
- And, in that chapter, you manage to only pull three. The enemy ends up getting the rest of them.
- Then there's Tanetane Island. After washing up on the shore during a wreck, your party is weak, starving, and incapable of healing themselves. Since you lost all your items, you have no choice but to eat some funky-looking mushrooms off the ground. Let's just say, it ends very, very badly.
- Then, when you get back home, the town is almost completely empty. Everybody's gone to the big city, save for a few individuals.
- In Chapter 8, we meet up with a fellow named Leder. He was the bell ringer in Tazmily Village, and he never spoke a word to anybody. Now that Tazmily is gone and he has no other purpose in life, he reveals that pretty much everything you thought you knew about the world is a lie. The human race destroyed this world long, long before you started playing this game, and the tiny island you've spent the game on is the only habitable place left on Earth. There is hope, but now the entire world is resting squarely on your shoulders, and the odds aren't looking very promising.
- Then you meet the Pig King himself, Porky. He essentially gives the entire human species a "Reason You Suck" Speech. And considering what you just found out, it'll strike a few chords.
- Hey, remember that Masked Man guy? The one who's been pulling all the other needles and striking you down at any given opportunity, hellbent on bringing the world to an end? It's Claus. Lucas's brother.
- You can't defeat Porky. During the fight, he reveals that his constant abuse of time travel has rendered him immortal. At the end of the fight, he locks himself in a machine called the Absolutely Safe Capsule. However, it's revealed that, once he's in there, he can never get out. Ever.
- The final battle in the game is against the Masked Man. It may just be the most heartbreaking "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight ever executed. With your party knocked unconscious, leaving you alone, you cannot fight him. A battle implies a conflict on both sides, but Lucas can't bring himself to hurt his brother. All you can do is guard against his attacks, while a terrifying boss theme that rivals Giygas's in intensity assaults your ears. Forcing you to just try and survive blasts from your own iconic attack, slowly watch as your brother gets weaker until he can't even damage you anymore. And it ends with Claus using your always-dependable Franklin Badge that protects you to deliberately blast lightning so it will deflect back at him, with every intention of committing child suicide. All you can do is hear him apologize for his mistakes as he says goodbye... so he... he can be with his mother...
- The ending. There are no words to say, just the ending.
It's just listing the entire game. I'm not doubting that the game pulls punches on the player, but I think we should probably just have highlights of this item, rather every single time the game has a depressing moment.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenCyberJudas trope page Videogame
Should there be a separate work page for Cyber Judas instead of grouping the sequel’s works along with Shadow President on the page?
(I don’t really know how else to add to this, I’d make the work page myself but I’m not entirely familiar with Cyber Judas aside from watching Joel’s gameplay of it.)
openArguing-against-self Narm entries?
I've noticed on entries for Narm across the wiki (I may even be guilty of it myself, not sure) that they occasionally include lines of explanation. For example, "It's hard to take (insert scene here) seriously when Alice's face is so goofy-looking. Though considering she was just drugged, this might explain why."
Would this be considered arguing against a listed trope? I usually see them added by the original editor, and it seems to have less to do with arguing that "Alice's face" is unintentionally funny and more about it being Justified.
Edited by iamconstantineopenDr Adler and Master Org are two different characters Live Action TV
Okay, this is the first time I've done this and I wasn't sure at first and though just speaking with the troper who kept doing it. However, doing some research I found this troper has a history of changing or altering things based more on their perception rather than what actually happens and wanted other to know of this.
It regards the characters section of Power Rangers Wild Force. There are spoilers for this season so if you hadn't watched it, be warned.
The Big Bad of the series is not the original Master Org by Dr. Victor Adler. He was friends with the Red Rangers parents and fell for his mother, but she was unaware of his feelings and she married who became Cole's father. Resentment turned to hatred, when they discovered seeds that were the remains of the original Master Org, and this is important to note, he swallowed them.
Now, the troper in question, TV Lubber, insists Adler was possessed by Master Org from the start and made him do terrible things. However, as someone who watches Wild Force once in a while, I can tell you this is not true in the slightest.
Adler has full agency over his actions, it's one of the reasons why in the YMMV section he, not Master Org, is given the Complete Monster entry. Until the episode The Master's Last Stand, it's repeatedly stated by himself that he's not the original or at least the original isn't in the driver's seat.
For example, one episode has him send his henchmen steal his tombstone built for his supposedly lost body. Upon reading it, how he supposedly died, he laughs about "So that's where they think I am..." Note that the wording clearly shows this is Adler, not the original, who is in full control of his actions.
This is why the original Master Org was given his own, albeit short, character entry to show he's the Greater-Scope Villain and could be influencing Adler, or influencing him.
Even to give TV Lubber the benefit of the doubt and assume Master Org has been in control of Adler the whole time, he still has full agency over all of his actions, including murdering Cole's parents, outright rejects his one chance at redemption towards the end of the series and clearly enjoys committing his evil deeds.
Anyway, I just wanted to ask what should I do about this? I don't want this to be an edit war, especially when the show itself makes it clear Adler isn't a good man under evil's control but genuinely evil himself.
openQuestion about The Southpaw
So I have been working on the The Southpaw TRS effort
for a while and I am nearing the final stage of the project which is wick cleaning. It was brought up that it might be better to turn it into a disambig instead of a supertrope since lefthandedness by itself isnt a trope. If it turns into a disambig, I would have to cut the Laconic and Quotes subpages.
But thing is the old crowner voted to make it an exampless supertrope and I don't want to get in trouble for going against something that was already sided by crowner. Should I make another crowner? Granted, people don't pay much attention to the thread besides me but it seems like the proper way to do things
Edited by MacronNotesopenTroping Tropes Before and After a CosmicRetcon
Question: how do we handle tropes that have different outcomes before and after a Cosmic Retcon?
I ask because of Mortal Kombat 11. Two games prior, the series Soft Rebooted itself via Time Travel. While ostensibly, it is the same universe it was before the point time was changed, the writers decided to take several liberties with the source material. Even prior to the point where time is changed, character personalities have changed, backstories have changed, rules about how the setting works have changed, etc, etc.
Of note, someone went around not long ago and started deleting tropes like Bathe Her and Bring Her to Me because while it was stated in the old continuity that the character Sindel was stolen by the local Evil Overlord and forcefully became his queen, in the new continuity, she describes this as a lie she told her followers so that they would remain loyal to her. In reality, she was happy to kill her "weak" husband and gain a stronger one. This is absolutely NOT how her original pre-Cosmic Retcon personality was, as in the old continuity, Sindel was absolutely a hero.
Edited by NubianSatyress

So, Disgust Tropes is meant to be about the emotion, but people are adding tropes like Bird-Poop Gag and Urine Trouble that are gross, but not to do with the emotion itself. Some do involve reactions from the characters, but it's not necessary. I know I could Always Edit It Myself, but it seems like a substantial problem.