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Ask the Tropers:
openCleanup needed on The Mask cartoon pages
Domino 710 added a whole bunch of really long and grammatically-dubious passages to pages related to the animated adaptation of ''The Mask''. For example:
“The Mask can be too strong towards any girls he comes across such as putting himself in a position with a girl so that he can kiss them only they are put off by him which makes him like Stanley unlucky with any woman he comes across but however he does get lucky later on due to the fact that he’s polite, kind and very sweet as well which makes most of the girls who are put off by him to be attracted to him.”
You’ll notice how it is just one run-on sentence with very strange wording. Stuff like this is all over the place, so I’d like to request some help in fixing it all up. Luckily, some tropers have already started (thanks for that!), but there’s still much more that needs to be done.
Edited by Loopytires55openIs it Mockguffin or not?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MockGuffin
Except, instead of mistaking something worthless for a valuable item, the item itself is either discharged, damaged, or is actually worthless in one way or another, despite previous intel painted it as something important. Meaning smart people, did research, and either it became outdated, or they got wrong info.
openPoorlyDisguisedPilot misuse?
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars had a couple, though it's not as evident as some given the show's anthology-style format.
- "The Gathering" through "A Necessary Bond" involve Ahsoka meeting a diverse group of young Jedi in training and helping them learn the ropes. None of the characters get another speaking role in the series, and it's very easy to imagine a TV show around them. One has to wonder if the involved Inferred Holocaust was a factor...
- "Secret Weapons" through "Point of No Return" is a completely self-contained mini-arc where the only main character to be present is R2, with everyone else being a crew of naturally kid-appealing droids and their commander.
Does Poorly Disguised Pilot require they produce the followup or Word of God they planned to? It seems speculative otherwise.
openParody Retcon
So, at the beginning of 2020, costanton11 removed this from Trivia.Cinema Sins:
- Parody Retcon: A common response to criticism is "it's satire" and claiming Jeremy is more of a character representing online critics who get anal-retentive over small details. This generally only comes up when they're called out for getting something wrong, while at all other points the complaints they make are their genuine views, mistakes and all, as evidenced in videos on Jeremy's personal channel. Jeremy also acknowledges mistakes, something he wouldn't need to do while in-character, and contradicts himself in several interviews, on Reddit and in his rant on a live-action remake of Winnie the Pooh in a Dear Hollywood video where he states the channel is not satire and should be taken seriously, which really reinforces the notion the "it's satire" and "he's playing a character" claims are just attempts at deflecting legitimate criticisms.
There was no edit reason, and it is actually a valid example. (Cinema Sins is notorious for pulling the Parody Retcon. They've even claimed at certain points that a certain percentage of all the "sins" they call movies out on are "intentionally wrong" as a joke, even though none of them are presented that way and the only way to know which is which is... well, can you prove the point wrong? Then it was on purpose and you just didn't get their biting satire!)
It feels like one fan just not wanting a negative trivia item on the page. Is it safe to put it back?
EDIT: Actually, it looks like there is an edit reason I missed, linking to the Complaints Cleanup thread, where Fighteer said he thought it didn't count as Parody Retcon.
But the thread also has no evidence or even attempts at arguing why it's actually wrong. And honestly, I'm not sure why or how anyone could possibly think that it is wrong. It literally says "people pointed out they made incorrect points and they responded by claiming they were just kidding." How is that not Parody Retcon?
The example could probably stand to be rewritten to be less complainy, and maybe make the point a bit better, but seriously... everyone knows Cinema Sins is guilty of this, even Cinema Sins.
Edited by Mimic1990openMisuse of Mythology Gag?
i don't mean to call anyone out, i'm just here to learn from my own mistakes.
this bit i added to Sephiroth's Mythology Gag entry in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - 76 to 81 got removed (in bold):
with the following reason:
i'm just curious what my mistake was, since Mythology Gag doesn't seem like it's limited in scope to how mundane the reference is, just that the thing referenced isn't in the same canon/universe otherwise it'd be Continuity Nod. unless, of course, i missed something while skimming the article (that happens to me a lot, unfortunately).
Edited by FreecomopenUnbuilt Trope
Mythology & Religion has these two examples for The Bible. Are they legitimate examples, a different trope, or some sort of complaining?
- Picture if you will a being that exists outside of space and time that can make and unmake the universe at will just with its voice, who sometimes sends messengers into the mortal world to manipulate mortals into performing seemingly insignificant actions as small parts of a very long-term plan that is inscrutable to all beings except itself, that has the power not only to destroy said people's bodies but also to lock their souls into an eternal state of And I Must Scream for failing to follow said plan, and a form that is so incomprehensible to human beings that the mere sight of it would kill them instantly and even the most minuscule fraction of its power is able to induce visceral terror in even its most loyal of servants. No, it's not some Lovecraftian Eldritch Abomination; that's God Himself. And He's not out to destroy or mutate the reality He created with His sheer might; He's the benevolent guardian of humanity who sends a manifestation of Himself (Jesus) to show them the light, and protect them from a lesser-but-actually-evil entity (Satan).
openTroper with oodles of problems
This troper here
has problems with examples not being self-contained
, referring to "the above mentioned" example; writing with awkward phrasing
("wasn't having to follow him repeatedly"?) and so on.
openGLaDOS Page weirdness
Something weird is up with SelfDemonstrating.G La DOS (Unless it's just my phone.)
It's full of end lines as though someone had added double slashes between almost every word. But theres nothing like that in the page source and I can find nowhere in the history where it was vandalized.
The page has a metric crap ton of formatting to give it its voice. Did it break the page?
openDirect to profile move Web Original
So, in my review of several Super Sentai pages, I've noticed a few times a character in the group get called either The Smart Lancer or The Big Lancer (with links to relevant Lancer/Smart Guy/Big Guy pages). It's making me wonder if maybe these 'Lancer combos' should become either full-fledged pages of their own or maybe just side notes on the Lancer page itself. I just wanted to discuss this before launching any Trope pages.
Along with https://saukrit.com/profile-creation-site-list
openSmart Lancer and Big Lancer
So, in my review of several Super Sentai pages, I've noticed a few times a character in the group get called either The Smart Lancer or The Big Lancer (with links to relevant Lancer/Smart Guy/Big Guy pages). It's making me wonder if maybe these 'Lancer combos' should become either full-fledge pages of their own or maybe just side notes on the Lancer page itself. I just wanted to discuss this before launching any Trope pages.
openPersistent complaining on YMMV.CrashBandicoot4ItsAboutTime.
Psi001
has been constantly adding entries complaining about characterization in YMMV.Crash Bandicoot 4 Its About Time. Among their entries include a Cliché Storm entry ranting about flanderization of the characters, They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character and Badass Decay complaining about Crash being stupid compared to Coco despite it always been part of his character, and an Audience-Alienating Premise entry that reads more like a general rant about the game (while the game itself definitely has flaws, Psi spends more time ranting about Positive Discrimination like his other entries). Also, a Badass Decay entry on YMMV.Crash Bandicoot is a huge Wall of Text complaining about Coco suffering Positive Discrimination which misuses Drama-Preserving Handicap and outright states We Want Our Jerk Back!.
I'd send them a PM, but I've already had several arguments with them about their Single-Issue Wonk on other sites that inevitably go nowhere, so I don't want to talk with them again lest we have another argument.
openThe thin line between webcomic and web-manga
This is an issue that has been raised several times over many years and involved works that I edited heavily (for example, Daily Lives of High School Boys and Kotoura-san), that is, how to handle manga that started online.
I know we have a consensus that an online preview, by itself, does not change the work's namespace, which is why the two works named above are still in the Manga/ namespace, because from day one they are intended to be published on paper, but released online-first.
What I am confused are works like I Can't Understand What My Husband Is Saying and I Think Our Son Is Gay. They were originally serialized on Pixiv (and in the latter case, Twitter as well). However, they are collected and published on paper eventually. Should they be Manga-namespaced, or they should—following the precedent of Hetalia: Axis Powers—be put into Webcomic/ ? Or even in Web Original/ like Getsuyoubi No Tawawa?
A third case is even more complicated. Wasteful Days of High School Girls was originally published as webcomic (on Nico Nico Douga), but eventually no longer published that way; most of the series is published in anthologies like traditional manga. How should it be namespaced?
Edited by SamCurtopenRemember 103pmaL?
This user got bounced from TV Tropes back in 2013 for adding false information. His edits can be found here
, but, strangely, the ones below (albeit since edited/corrected by others) are still lingering on this site.
(This is gonna be a long one, so...)
- Many live-action shows on Nickelodeon do this - a lot. Below are a few examples...
- The Amanda Show's theme song was essentially the Wizard's Peak theme from Spyro The Dragon With Lyrics.
- Drake & Josh used "I Found a Way" by Drake Bell.
- Unfabulous used "Unfabulous" by Jill Sobule.
- Zoey 101 used "Follow Me" by Jamie Lynn Spears.
- iCarly uses "Leave It All To Me" by Miranda Cosgrove and Drake Bell.
- Victorious uses "Make It Shine" by Victoria Justice.
- Sam & Cat uses "Just Fine" by Backhouse Mike.
- Crossover: Drake & Josh had a crossover with Zoey 101 and Unfabulous in which a hurricane strikes the shows' respective towns - San Diego, Malibu and Santa Barbara. The three-part special was originally scheduled to air in May 2006, but due to the massive tornado outbreak happening at that time, it ultimately didn't air until October of that year.
- "Do It Yourself" Theme Tune: Starting with the episode "iWill Date Freddie", Miranda, aka Carly, sings the theme tune.
- Replaced the Theme Tune: Avril Lavigne and Drake Bell sang the theme song, titled "Leave It All To Me" — that was until the episode "iRock with Drake Parker" in which Carly sang Avril's vocals at the end of the episode. Then, a version of "Leave It All To Me" by Miranda Cosgrove and Drake Bell became the top-downloaded song on iTunes for the week, and coincidentally, the Avril Lavigne version was dropped starting with "iWill Date Freddie". Promptly, this ended Nickelodeon's aversion of Disney Channel's tradition of Do It Yourself Theme Tunes.
Sam & Cat is the first Nick show to use an actual song as its theme song since 2007.
Until 2007, Nickelodeon used a lot of hit songs for its sitcoms, such as Simple Plan's "I Found a Way", (Drake & Josh), Nerf Herder's "Girl Next Door" (Unfabulous), JoJo's "Follow Me" (Zoey 101), and Green Day's "American Idiot" (Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide).- That changed when the producers of iCarly dumped Avril Lavigne from the opening titles in favor of Miranda Cosgrove, and now Nick follows the lead of Disney Channel in using DIY theme tunes.
- Hopefully for fans, this may be the last time they might hear an actual song in the opening of a Nick sitcom.
- Since 2007 note (and even before that), Nickelodeon does this a lot too. Miranda Cosgrove sings the theme song to iCarly (starting with "iWill Date Freddie"), Victoria Justice sings the theme for Victorious, Keke Palmer sings the theme for True Jackson, VP, Big Time Rush sings the theme for... Big Time Rush, Brec Bassinger sings the theme for Bella and the Bulldogs, and Kel Mitchell sings the theme to Game Shakers. Older Nickelodeon series include the entire cast performing the theme to Eureeka's Castle.
- Only one Nick series averts this: Sam & Cat, whose theme song used is a Real Song Theme Tune: "Just Fine" by Backhouse Mike.
- Season two of My Babysitter's a Vampire has Vanessa Morgan singing the theme song, "Girl Next Door" (which was sung by Nerf Herder in season one, and also used for the Nickelodeon show Unfabulous)
- Real Song Theme Tune: Jamie Lynn sings the theme song, titled "Follow Me".
openAvoiding an edit war.
On Happiest Season I found a Unintentionally Unsympathetic that didn't really explain how a character is mean to be sympathetic:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Harper. She is understandably afraid to come out to her conservative small-town family, but it doesn't excuse that she lied to Abby about being out and continuously acted in a way that made Abby uncomfortable.
- There's also the unambiguously cruel way in which Harper outed Riley, which is largely brushed off but which other, thematically similar films have treated as a Moral Event Horizon.
- And the fact that she smashed Jane's painting.
So I took it to the clean up thread here
. And most seemed to agree with me. So I cut it. However another troper York back added it here
with no new additions, except a link to an un related site and the reason of "after the movie came out, the points made in Fan-Preferred Couple and Unintentionally Unsympathetic have been discussed on social media and by Aubrey Plaza herself, so these entries have been added back in." Which I don't thinks is allowed. They also unhid a Zero Context example I hid for Fan-Preferred Couple, which from my research I am not sure qualifies, without new info. Then whoseliner deleted the second bullet here
I am trying to avoid an Edit war.
Edited by BullmanopenIs ExpositoryHairstyles a trope, or an index? ... EDIT: Are we done cleaning?
I'm on a bent to do some TRS Wick Cleaning, and my focus is Expository Hairstyles, right now, since it's super short.
Expository Hairstyles is used as a trope in at least Motherly Side Plait, and calls itself a Super-Trope, but it looks like an index.
Is it an index or a trope? Or is it a trope that has effectively an Examplesectionectomy?
There's 33 wicks
left. Should we work to remove all of them, or is it basically as clean as it can be?
openTroper Can't Grammar
Hollywill06 is making some pretty huge mistakes. I caught them with their Timeline.Gunners Genocide page, which...sort of speaks for itself, both when it comes to grammar issues and general lack of wiki understanding. note the page has been cutlisted; Mightymewtron copy pasted the text in a comment. The strange thing is, they've flown under the radar since at least February of this year, and scrolling down the list, yeah, none of their edits are passable- due to both grammar mistakes and other issues, like formatting problems
, a lack of wiki words
, and stub pages with a context issue
. For those who don't feel like clicking wicks, their grammar issues include:
- Lack of punctuation
- Randomly capitalized words
- Randomly uncapitalized words
- A complete lack of proper wiki formatting, in good number of examples
- Run-on sentences
- Generally confusing / nonsensical phrasing
I sent a notifier today but for problems this severe I'm not sure waiting around is a good idea.
Edited by WarJay77openQuestionable Deletion?
On saw this paragraph was deleted by Johnny Be Bad on Big Mouth with no edit reason.
- Incels and the Men Going Their Own Way movement are shown as the manipulative hate groups that they are, preying on ignorant and impressionable young white men and middle school boys and showing them self victimizing techniques and later using their "victim" status as an excuse to blame all of their problems on women, minorities and LGBT+ people.
Because these type of examples usually cause a bit of a conflict, i wonder if it's a justifiable deletion.
openTroper edit-warring, declined to take disagreement to discussion page
Betoniarz and I are having a disagreement over an entry for the trope LOL, 69 on the Crusader Kings III page.
History:
- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.CrusaderKingsIII#edit27876410
- Troper adds some extra content, that I felt was Natter. I sent a standard notifier for Natter.
- They asked for clarification since they edited the page several times (fair point).
- After clarifying to them, their response message included "In that time, you could fix it yourself."
- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.CrusaderKingsIII#edit27922934
- So I did fix it myself.
- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.CrusaderKingsIII#edit27923081
I don't want to extend the Edit War by making any more edits, so I'm coming here to get some feedback. I'm aware mods can see P Ms, so I'll let a mod decide either Betoniarz or myself have been unprofessional. I'll admit to not being a very friendly person, but I try to remain calm and collected when interacting with other tropers.
I sent a PM pointing them to this thread, so they can join in on discussing the entry.
Edit: They responded to my PM declining to join the discussion. I would ask that we respect that choice and not spam them with P Ms.
Edited by bitemytailopenPlease help me compose a note Web Original
This might be yet another futile attempt, but I would like to enforce "Please state the character(s)" in Characters.SCP Foundation (the skips sheets, other sheets are doing fine). One major problem with them is that people troping someone else instead of the character in the header.
For example, SCP-5000 used to be filled with tropes belong to the Foundation (which has its own sheet) despite the SCP-5000 is (from the article itself) "a non-functional mechanical suit identified within its internal schematics as an 'Absolute Exclusion Harness' designed by the SCP Foundation."
This is likely stem from how the site march on with style. While many articles are named after the object itself, but some don't. (Although this isn't something new, although it didn't cause problem before because at least the object will be the center of the story. But many new articles on SCP Wiki are now a tale in skip guise.) For examples, said SCP-5000 is called "Why" while SCP-4000 is called "Taboo", neither is the name of the object. So I guess that's how tropers think "Anything is ok if they appears in said story.", and so we got purely narrative tropes list in character sheet (For example, here's one from Characters.SCP Foundation SC Ps 3000 To 3999:
- Apocalyptic Log: Most of what the foundation knows about the interior of the store comes from a journal carried by a man who spent several months inside before managing to escape, only to get killed by one of the staff shortly after.
Mind you, SCP-3008 object is an IKEA store as Eldritch Location. The journey is written by a man trapped in it but not the direct result of its anomaly, so the trope is clearly not belong to the IKEA store itself.)
I did add some "Tropes associated with X" to handful of skips entries because I think it should resolve some issue. People should at least aware of who or what they're troping and it can cover other one-shot character who's only has major role in one skip (for example, the aforementioned SCP-5000 has a good chunk of the story being about a character called Pietro Wilson who used that suit even if he isn't skip itself). The 3008 above? Troping "people trapped inside" (or the "store and people trapped inside") would allow that misplaced trope to stay with minor edit. Plus, that's how other sheet done. When troping a Stage 2 of video games, we add "Tropes associated with mini-boss" and "Tropes associated with stage boss" if they're stand out.
Unfortunately, it isn't done to all entries yet because, as noted, not all articles are named after the character and so I need to look up the article first (and with articles getting longer these days...). Also, even when it's done with the character's name clearly stated, some people just ignore it anyway and that's discouraging.
But lets try a gain, put a big bolded notification of "Please state the character before troping." on the top of skip sheet and see if it would help. Although I cannot write a good message and need help here.
Edited by Kuruni

Once again, on Characters.Ys VIII Lacrimosa Of Dana. I saw four examples of Child Soldier used for Ricotta, Reja, Quina, and the general Castaway Village folder. However, given that the trope talks about literal child soldiers trained and drafted for war, these examples on the character page are really overstretching it, because not only are these child characters not actually soldiers to begin with, but outside of Beast Raids as support skills, Reja and Quina don't get actively involved in fights, and Ricotta is actually a Jungle Princess who fights for survival rather than war.
Edited by DivineFlame100