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openTheoretically infinite game troping
I've been editing AI Dungeon 2 lately, and the game is almost entirely AI-generated. I'm only troping what the AI outputs, and not any of my actions or such. For examples, see Shaped Like Itself and Mundane Made Awesome. Since this is a theoretically infinite game, is this okay? Should it be restricted to only common habits that the AI has?
openIs there a way of removing an ATT thread?
My last thread was... embarrassing and I'm feeling pretty bad about asking in the first place, since it ended up seeming like I was requesting people edit a page I could do myself. I've had a clean history here and I don't want that affecting me.
openEdit Warring on YMMV/Overlord2012 Anime
Leonidaz made some edits to the Overlord (2012) page on roughly 1/12.
- Memetic Badass: Ainz Ooal Gown is regarded as one of the most overpowered, invincible and badass villains and protagonists in Isekai history. An unusual case in that Ainz is indeed invencible and in-universe everybody regards him as the ultimate superior being, but in reality Ainz is far from being the unbeatable badass everyone thinks he is, he is just lucky to always meet foes weaker or dumber than him.
- Rooting for the Empire: It's rather hard to root for Ainz and the rest of the gang when they act like your typical Fantasy JRPG villains. The fact that they easily steamroll through any obstacle or foe, all the while acting over the top arrogant and snide at the other races and people around them does not help matters. You WISH the antagonist of the arc would actually smack the smirks right off of their faces just for a change of pace (though a bunch of them, such as the Eight Fingers, are even worse than them). The Tomb of Nazarick's over the top entrance and sadistic subjugation of the Lizardfolk (a peaceful community they went to war with just as an "experiment") has been seen as rather infuriating for readers. Though, after they were conquered, Ainz then ordered Cocytus to rule over them with the carrot and not the stick, showing that he's not a total sadist. However, Ainz later unleashed five abominations on a huge, mostly conscript, army and showed nothing but glee towards breaking the record of how many monsters were summoned at once, not even feeling anything about all those who his summoned monstrosities slaughtered. And then there's everything about Demiurge's "livestock". Seriously, many fans of Overlord would want a crossover with other series just so Ainz could face a challenge and be defeated JUST ONCE.
- Spiritual Adaptation: If you unfocus your eyes, you can almost convince yourself you’re watching an anime adaptation of Den.
- That One Boss: For the Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick this title can easily be assigned to Victim, Guardian of the 8th Level. The irony of it all is that Victim is only level 35 and the weakest Guardian. His power comes from being able to sacrifice himself, which causes an onslaught of crippling status debuffs and movement lockdown effects, allowing the rest of Nazarick's forces to kill the invaders at their leisure. To emphasise this point; no Raid Party in Yggdrasil had ever gotten past it.
I removed the areas marked in bold, Spiritual Adaptation, and That One Boss because of the nature of these edits.
- Memetic Badass not only had misspelling, but it also reads as a Justifying Edit and conflicts with the trope.
- Rooting for the Empire has an unnecessary point at the end and has no reason to be there.
- Spiritual Adaptation reads as a ZCE since it doesn't explain how it is one.
- That One Boss is being used for an In-Universe example, so it doesn't make sense to include it.
After removing them on 1/13, said troper returned and added them back in without a message. I sent them a message notifying them I would be making this.
Edited by keyblade333openIssue notifier link.
I sent a troper a grammar issue notifier a few days ago, and they just messaged me back that the included link didn't work. I followed the link myself and found that yeah, it leads to a 404 error.
Edited by SammettikopenJerks Are Worse Than Villains- Order Of The Stick
Found this massive rambly example on Jerks Are Worse Than Villains and I'm, uh...not sure what to do with it.
- Author Rich Berlew deconstructs this trope more than a few times in The Order of the Stick. The main example is that with Xykon, the series' Big Bad. While he has plenty of humorous line and charismatic (appropriately enough, he's an epic-level Sorcerer and thus, would have high Charisma), the author works to ensure that he never becomes a Draco in Leather Pants or Laughably Evil. For Xykon, it's the fact that at his core, he's just an older and undead version of that sort of creepy kid who always derived sadistic pleasure from ripping wings off of flies or frying ants with a magnifying glass. He just now applies the same to a much broader group because of his power, relishes in being evil and has no standards in it (outside of engaging in a physical relationship with a living being, though that's because he's not a "digusting biophiliac" and thus more a matter of "grossness" than moral quandry). He discusses this in Start of Darkness, which served as his and Redcloak's backstories:
Rich Burlew: Writing a story centered around your main antagonist is sort of difficult, because you risk "devillainifying" them. Yes, I just made that word up. What I mean though, is that once an audience has read all about a character's life, with all of their personal struggles and trials and tribulations and such, it's more difficult to see the character as the Big Bad. My challenge here was to tell the story of Xykon's life without making Xykon even slightly sympathetic. I mean, he's wholly and unapologetically Evil, but more to the point, he's kind of a dick.
- Miko Miyazaki plays with this, as part of an experiment with Berlew on whether he could make a Lawful Good paladin an antagonist to the group. He does so by her being a Well-Intentioned Extremist, who's extensive devotion has led her to becoming isolated from most of everyone (her only friend is her steed Windtriker) which just leads her to focus only on her mission. She dies a fallen Paladin who's inteferrence was a large blow to the good guys and the founding spirit of her order tells her that she did not earn her redemption, but her attempt at something means she might reunite with Windstriker. She manages to have some touching last words before dying.
- General Tarkin meanwhile was made to be her Foil. He is shown to be a Crazy-Prepared Genre Savvy Lawful Evil individual who presents himself as a Noble Demon and shares many of the endearing similarties as his son, Elan does. However, he is still a villan and it becomes clear that he's a very selfish and self-centered individual who's morality runs more on using tropes in a traditional sense. He has trouble accepting he isn't in charge. He shows little to no remorse when he kills his other son in Nale, who he raised to be villainous, though he also notes he did it to avenge his best friend Malack and Nale's own pride did him in there because he had to be dumb enough to brag about it. Then he goes off the deep end and shows how ruthless he is to force Elan into what he thinks the proper roles should be and he's disregarded as such an Arc Villain rather than the Big Bad he thinks he is. While Miko is introduced disdainfully yet there is tragedy in her parting, Tarkin is introduced affably and with good reputation, but by the end, his igoble defeat where he is left impotent is a large Catharsis Factor.
- Tsukiko may be this too. Appearing first in March 2007, she is a Parody Sue with plenty of Common Mary Sue Traits: Heterochromatic eyes, great beauty, skimpy clothing, unusually skilled for her young age, Japanese name meaning "moon child", believing she was oppressed (mainly because of her necrophilia). Given how she came out when Twilight was at its peak (just before the films though when the books were being completed), the implications are there. She shows advancements toward Xykon, little respect toward Redcloak (though given how she was initially decent with him and he brushed her off when she notified she was employed before leaving her to be killed by his chlorine elemental, not surprising in retrospect) and no one misses her when she's gone, except the Monster in the Darkness, who laments that all she wanted was someone to care for her and the fact no one did added to the tragedy. Berlew notes her creation of undead who will do what she wants and say what she wants to hear is a way to stay in her own litle world anod have to not deal with others. This was the result of her being hurt by a lot of people in the past.
Indentation issue aside, it bills itself as a "deconstruction", but this is YMMV.
Most of this seems to be added by DVB.
Edited by WarJay77openViewing content violation reports requires being signed in
Why is content violation reports
only visible to known tropers? Only P5 members can do anything on the content violation reports page anyway; pages are reported by clicking the "Report Page" button in the sidebar on the page itself.
openWill This Film Have It's Own Page? Film
Will Nature Unleashed: Volcano (The Volcano Disaster 2005) have it's own page like most films? I've always wondered and originally I wanted to make the page myself, but I'm not that great with tropes and have only have done small additions and edits to a few films so far (even though I come to Tvtropes almost everyday to view tropes, pages, and films that I like so I can have some good laughs and make some stories and novels of my own with those tropes).
openTime Paradox Ghostwriter
I have, on occasion, tried to add tropes to Time Paradox Ghostwriter that were a bit more critical of the series. Most of my edits have been undone by Fishysaur for various reasons. Some of the reasons made sense, I am admittedly not that great of a troper. Others kind of sound like he's Willfully Blind to the series' faults. To avoid things escalating into a full-on edit war, I have not confronted him (outside of a discussion thread from months ago), and have not reversed any of his edits.
- I added Mis-blamed, mentioning the popular claim that the "plagiarism controversy" was the sole reason it got cancelled despite there being other things about it that could have contributed to its failure, citing a video by Replay Value that breaks it down. fishysaur removed it because it was "just 'fans are wrong for liking it'", which wasn't what I wrote at all.
- EDIT: This was misuse, my mistake. I also forgot bringing it up before. Like I said, not a great troper.
- Under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, I added how the series didn't even attempt to go further into the future Jump issues, specifically citing how the Author Comments could have played a role. fishysaur removed it because it was "pretending to do things a Cut Short series couldn't have done", but there's no actual reason why the series couldn't at least broach the subject earlier.
- I added Broken Aesop (first on the YMMV page itself, which was my mistake, and then on the trope page), citing how Teppei's message for Aino (it's impossible to create a manga the whole world can enjoy) at the end might have come off as hollow due to White Knight never being criticized in-universe. fishysaur removed it in both places, the first time expressing confusion over how I got that Aesop, and the second time denying that the Aesop was in the story at all. (The fact that he knew to look for it on the trope page indicates that he might be stalking my edits.)
Apologies for the long post. I acknowledge that it could very well be me who's in the wrong.
Edited by MaximumBurninationopenBrewing Edit War: Self Rpeorting Anime
There are some issues ongoing in the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/YuGiOhSEVENS
page revolving around the Broken Base entry. Namely about the use of a 'repetitive duels' part of the B.B.
Main argument point being my 'this is what people are saying in reaction the duels' versus 'repetitive duels are hardly just Sevens'.
It's going back and forth at this point between myself and Jackpot 21 and should probably get a intervention sooner rather than later.
openOvershadowedByControversy about a (real life) person -- kosher?
So, the Depp/Heard domestic violence thing again popped up. This was added to Johnny Depp 's Creator page:
- Overshadowed by Controversy: This has been the case for him since the allegations of abuse between him and Amber Heard (both claiming that the other is the abusive one while they only acted in self-defense), as he's been in the news much more for his court battles than for his movies. He was eventually dropped from the third Fantastic Beasts movie after he lost his libel lawsuit against The Sun for calling him a "wifebeater."
Can Overshadowed by Controversy even be added to a character (or actually a real person, in this case), isn't it only about works?
It's a YMMV so it also triggered the warning icon.
openVideo example messup Web Original
Hey, so I uploaded a video example for Self-Destruct Mechanism (yes it's 3 am and I'm hyperfixating on The Final Minutes, if you want to know) and I just now realized that the video cropper I used completely cut out the entire countdown sequence and only shows the aftermath. Is there a way that the upload can be denied or something and I can re-upload a better video (with the actual sequence)?
openEdit War; self-reporting
Self reporting that ~St Fan and I have gotten into an Edit War (specifically on Fishbowl Helmet, but probably on others as well). I'm crosswicking examples from a Magazine, so I checked Media Categories, which doesn't have a category which fits, so I created a folder based on the namespace. Checking the history because it feels familiar, I find that St Fan has been changing the folders to say Print Media, which also isn't on Media Categories, but encompasses Comic Books and Literature in addition to Magazines.
So wiki consensus; which folder name is the correct one to use? Which one should be added to Media Categories?
openHostile edit reasons from troper. Videogame
On 1/01 Mr Heroes added the following meme to the Fate/Grand Order meme page:
- Muramasa is ShirouExplanation While he takes Shirou's form, Muramasa isn't Shirou. A running gag is having Muramasa mistaken/called Shirou, which is popular with fan artists.
On 1/04, Rebel Falcon removed it with an unusually hostile edit reason spread across a few minutes:
- "For the last time, Muramasa is Shiro. Muramasa is a Pseudo-Servant using Shiro as his host, and his bio quite literally says that Shiro's personality is the dominant one. He doesn't simply look like Shiro, he is Shiro."
- Saying Muramasa isn't Shiro is like saying Ishtar isn't Rin, or Jaguar Warrior isn't Taiga, or Ganesha isn't Jinako. It's literally their bodies and personalities, its just some have themselves in the drivers seat, some have the spirit, and some fuse together. Bottom line though, Muramasa is fucking Shiro Emiya.
Now in the first instance, this was done because it appears Rebel may have submitted their edit early, cutting off the message as the first of three edits has this edit reason: For the last time, ''Muramasa is Shiro".
However, the third entry was made after the second, more detailed one, and was close to ten minutes later. The meme itself is probably fine being removed but the edit reason is very hostile and leaves me concerned since this is something I've noticed seems to be a recent trend of there's.
For example, on the RWBY page, they readded an entry on 1/03 that was removed with the following edit reason: "Don't remove shit without giving a reason."
I've not had much interaction with Rebel except for once but I wanted to mention it since this hostility is concerning. Not to suspend them concern, more so just a "Hey, everything okay?" kind of concern.
Edited by keyblade333openWeird page organization
Curse Cut Short's subpages are organized not by media, but by type ( Another Character Interrupts, Self-Interruption, Cut to Another Scene, etc). It has no on-page examples that don't fit these internal subtropes. Some pages are so short, like CurseCutShort.Episode Begins, that I don't see why they even need their own page. There's also a page for CurseCutShort.Sound Effect Bleep...even though Sound-Effect Bleep is its own trope.
Is this okay or should we re-organize it? I know there was a trope organized similarly that was brought here a while ago, though I forgot the name.
openExpanding tropes on Insomniac's Spider-Man Videogame
Hey, guys, I realise that this message is more appropriate in a videogame forum or the like, which is where I did originally send it, but I have decided to post it here as well since I have not been garnering any responses from the videogame's forum.
So I recently added some tropes which I think apply to Insomniac's Spider-Man, Manchild, Motor Mouth, Pop-Cultured Badass and Thou Shall Not Kill, onto his folder, but can't expand upon them (as I'm a relatively inexperienced editor and have yet to write up my first official example), so if someone could please maybe write up something on my behalf, I'd very much appreciate it.
To get anyone going, here's some info you can consider and use when writing up some descriptions for these tropes.
- For Manchild, maybe someone could mention his endearingly narrating his own adventurers as Spider-Cop, constant wisecracking, etc, throughout Spider-Man PS4. And Silver Sable lampshading "You are a child." when he enthusiastically helps her calibrate her hovercraft towards the end of the Silver Lining DLC could also be noted.
- For Motor Mouth, this particular exchange between Spidey and Shocker when the former apprehends the latter's bank robbery attempt during the mission "Financial Shock" can be considered. Here's a 41 second clip of the exchange if you wanna watch it.
Spider-Man: Remember our first fight? Me, so young and stupid. You, just stupid. Shocker: You talk too much! Spider-Man: Well, that's a matter of opinion. I mean, are there any standard metrics for how much talking one should do? And who determines the ideal ratio of talking versus not-talking? Also, how would you measure it? Words per minute? Syllables per second? Or is it more about how many words one uses to express a single thought? It's all so subjective. If you ask me, some people don't talk enough. Like about who their mysterious overlord is, the person they're working for, that kinda thing. Shocker: [goaded past endurance] SHUT UP!- Of course, there are other moments where he just prattles on (even if he doesn't talk particularly fast-paced) and Silver Sable has asked him to shut up a couple times during the Silver Lining DLC. However, it may need to be noted that he tends to do this during story campaign, as outside-story gameplay, he's obviously quiet (I'm not quite sure what the trope for this is or if there's even a trope for this, maybe Gameplay and Story Segregation?) but you guys can write it however way you like, doesn't matter to me.
- For Pop-Cultured Badass, much like his MCU counterpart, Spidey makes a number of references to pop culture, of which I've compiled a list.
- Spidey greets Vulture with a friendly "Yo, Adrian!" While the Vulture yells at him to quit babbling, Electro actually responds by telling Spidey that he must break him in a strong Russian accent, much to the web-head's delight.
- Upon being attacked by Sable's jetpack troops and learning from Yuri that the mercenaries have declared martial law on the city in light of the Sinister Six's actions, Spider-Man asks if anyone else besides him is getting a Nineteen Eighty-Four vibe from the whole situation.
- When Sable Agents respond to Spider-Man fighting criminals, Spider-Man reacts by referencing a line from Milkshake
, with "milkshake" exchanged for "web."
- During a Maggia car chase, Spider-Man references It's Raining Men
.
- While going through one of Hammerhead's bases, Spider-Man says the line "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!" from The Wizard of Oz
.
- When talking about his "Spider-Cop" persona, Peter at one point says "Part man, part spider, all cop."
- During a side mission stopping the Demons' car while they have an armed bomb, Spidey may randomly say that it reminds him a lot of "that movie with the bomb on the bus," though he can't quite remember its name.
- A very subtle one occurs during the Midtown Research Mission "Chemical Leak". He follows the trail and in three separate spots he finds traces of mercury, nitric acid, and ethanol then wonders why that sounds familiar. It's familiar because that's the chemical combination used by none other than Heisenberg, the kingpin of Albuquerque drug crime himself, to blow a hole in a building during the first season of Breaking Bad.
- One type of random side mission has thugs pinning down cops with sniper rifles. After beating one, Spidey might quip that it feels like a new-age western, then say, "Yippee kiyay, mother-spider."
- When Spidey stops said heist, he quips, "I love it when a plan falls apart."
- When Spidey infiltrates an abandoned warehouse at the docks, he mentions this feels like a horror movie and asks if there are any fishermen with a grudge and a hook for a hand.
- In the Sable Lookout Crime, one of Spider-Man's quips is asking the soldiers if they should call him by say... flashing a Spider Symbol in the sky but stops himself "before he gets sued."
- And for Thou Shall Not Kill, since Spider-Man has a no-kill policy, thugs that are thrown off roofs during combat will automatically be pulled to the nearest wall and appear webbed-up. He also cites his no-killing rule when discussing how to take down Hammerhead with Silver Sable towards the end of Silver Lining.
So that's that. I hope you more experienced and talented editors can cook up something special with all this info. Write however way you want, I'm just the guy supplying some background info, which I hope will be useful. :)
Edited by gothamarkhamlordopenBan Evader
I have reason to suspect that The Master Chand
is ScumBagMan
. He focuses on many of the same works (Catherine, Mega Man, Xexyz, Godzilla, Mass Effect, and Star Trek) and the Unintentionally Unsympathetic example he added to The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening is suspiciously similar to the one Scum Bag Man added back in 2019. Compare.
Scum Bag Man's example: "One may forgive it for not saving the Nightmares, but more than a little harsh that it lets even those had nothing to do with their schemes die as well. Leaving the guy who saves him stranded in the ocean and clinging to driftwood isn't particularly nice either."
The Master Chand's example: "You can forgive him for letting the Nightmares die, self-preservation motives or not, but the general residents of the island are harder to overlook. There's also the issue of leaving the guy who just saved his bacon stranded in the ocean clinging to driftwood."
Edited by SammettikopenConfusing YMMV deletion
Last month, concernedalien11780 did some cleanup on YMMV.Big Mouth. Some of this was admittedly helpful, deleting natter or ZCE, but there was an entry from Author's Saving Throw that I had initially added and I don't know why it was deleted:
- After being criticized for their poorly phrased and under-researched definitions of bisexuality and pansexuality in "Rankings," the next season introduced a transgender character, Natalie, written in collaboration with transgender women to ensure she wouldn't be written offensively. Natalie is actually a season four highlight she also has a legal, yet teenage voice actress, Josie Totah, (a 19-year-old in a cast of primarily 30 and 40 somethings), who is also transgender herself.
Note that I didn't add that bit about her actress - I think it's kind of weird to highlight her as "legal yet teenage." That came from lifelover91, who also seemed to have some grammar and ZCE issues on top of gushy writing ("Natalie and Gina are the characters we love (and totally deserve)."
) Not sure if they warrant a separate query. Anyway, to make things clearer, the entry as I originally wrote it was:
- After being criticized for their outdated and transphobic definitions of bisexuality and pansexuality in "Rankings," the next season introduced a transgender character, Natalie, written in collaboration with transgender women to ensure she wouldn't be written offensively.
I think this is a valid entry because the creators have discussed wanting to better represent certain positions, they apologized for the Unfortunate Implications in their depiction of pansexuality, so when adding more representation to the show, they made sure to include voices of the community when writing the episode (as a trans woman is on the writing team now), as they were criticized for presumably not consulting pansexual people when writing "Rankings." In short: they were criticized for transphobic implications in their LGBT rep, so they took measures to avoid transphobic implications in future episodes.
I mentioned this on the discussion page
but have yet to hear any feedback. I'd like to re-add it, but I want to avoid an Edit War.
openTroper uncommenting out ZCEs, some rudeness
It was brought up on the ZCE thread
that Queen Adrian uncommented out some ZC Es without adding context on Webcomic.Pandoras Tale. I looked through their edit history to see if this was frequent behavior and I ended up finding that they deleted this entry on SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.Video Games:
- Pokémon Black and White mentions that you should try to get along with people who have different views from yourself. Take one look at any political debate, especially those around major political parties and those on the internet, and you'd know how much that anvil really needed to be dropped.
With the edit reason:
"Oh, fuck off. People's rights are not on a similar scale to whether or not pineapple goes on pizza."
Regardless of context, the edit reason was quite rude. Didn't find a lot of other problems looking through their edits (granted I didn't look a lot, maybe there are others but I didn't see them on a cursory glance) but based on what I did find should something be done?
Edited by themayorofsimpletonopenI think I'm edit warring by accident.
So earlier today I was going through The Devil Wears Prada when I saw this entry:
- Vanilla Protagonist: Andy is an alright protagonist, having her funny and likable moments, but it's widely agreed that Miranda is far more interesting and entertaining, completely stealing the show from her. It's telling that even though some believed her role was a supporting one, one, Meryl Streep was nominated for Best Actress instead of the true lead Anne Hathaway.
I remember reading that this trope has to be intentional, and the entry itself admits that she is still quite likable and has some funny moments. So I removed it here
, but then I recently saw that it was originally a zero context entry I hid here
. Which I forgot I hid. Now the entry was originally added by RiceRomp here
, and they are the one who unhid and expanded it here
. I message them about it, and meant to before I removed it to explain how the trope needs to be intentional, but forgot to before hand. And this was before I remembered that I originally hid it.
So I think I am edit warring by mistake. Did I? If I am I fully take responsibility, and accept the consequence.
Edited by Bullman

Upon rewatching The Mist, I've realised something. The entire premise of the evil cult that forms through the story and preaching of their leader hinge almost entirely on the fact the story is set in place with Protestant majority and the concept of predestination is not only a tenant, but actively used, both for the story itself and the in-story cult. If the story was set in any other background, the entire premise of the cult as "God will only save a handful of chosen ones, and everyone not worthy will go straight to hell, so prove your worth" falls flat on its face, because it just won't work out if you don't, say, have the story set in Maine.
But does it qualify if the location or social background of the story was changed as a Trope Breaker? I was thinking about this exact same story playing out in my own country, which is Catholic, and the type of person that's best described as a local equivalent of a fundie. And they would preach completely different things - assuming they wouldn't just blame it on Jews, then simply pray in the corner to pass time, which would be far more likely than anything else.