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Ask the Tropers:
openMetroid Prime 4 edit war
It really hurts me to write this query, because the involved troper is a good contributor, but unfortunately coming here is the only resort I have.
On YMMV.Metroid Prime 4 Beyond, QU 4 DR 4 X 15 had written a flawed Tainted by the Preview entry, which had issues like self-contradictory sentences and focus on knee-jerk reactions from a Vocal Minority. I removed the example on those grounds, but they added it back with a different wording that, if anything, amplified the aforementioned issues. The edit reason also comes off as needlessly defiant.
At the very least, they should have brought this up on any venue, but I can't seem to find any thread or discussion board where they did.
openPoppy Playtime's Prototype sympathy
Would like to prompt for more opinions on the subject here
, since there are only 3 people arguing and I myself would like to step down from it. It's been almost a month and I don't think the back-and-forth on what essentially is an Alternative Character Interpretation will be getting anywhere any time soon.
openPage quote citing a work's creator?
On Flow (2024), the page quote is sourced from an interview with the creator. The animation itself does not feature any dialogue. Is this suitable?
openCan a Continuity Nod qualify as a Mythology Gag at the same time? Videogame
Probably a stupid question, but, what the title says. This is a super specific situation I'm dealing with: I'm thinking of editing a page that's about the second game in a series that was originally self-contained but contained a cameo of the Big Bad from a previous game made by the same developer, before being adopted as part of a series later on as a Non-Linear Sequel.
Can this be considered both a Continuity Nod as well as a Mythology Gag, due to the circumstances? The page I previously made and edited currently lists it as a Mythology Gag when it really should be considered a Continuity Nod (a mistake from the days where I had way less experience as a troper), but can I retroactively slot the Continuity Nod in while explaining that it was originally the latter before later games made it into the former? Or should I Take a Third Option and just replace Mythology Gag with Continuity Nod and call it a day?
openNot sure this should have been removed. Videogame
I recently added an edit for Fourth Wall Myopia on Dragon Age: The Veilguard, that was removed:
- Dragon Age: The Veilguard: This is a major factor to Taash's infamous confrontation with their mother in their personal quest coming off as Unintentionally Unsympathetic to audiences, even though anyone familiar with such issues would recognize the ethos, logos and pathos all hold up. Taash's grievances were on paper entirely understandable; they were emotionally neglected by their mother for most of their life, and one of Taash's fundamental questions is how non-binary characters would even exist in a religion like the Qun. Suffice to say, not well at all; the Qun are adamant that the role you play is the one you're born in and will die in, and are likewise adamant that men and women are assigned to strict gender roles, and while this means that the Qun are surprisingly okay with trans people, they don't even consider non-binary people to even exist. This is a sentiment that several trans people go through when explaining their gender identity to their own parents, and Taash was clearly meant to emulate that with them finding it difficult to keep themselves composed over the matter as their mother doesn't even recognize why Taash made this choice and even insinuates that Rook had a reason for "making her like this". Unfortunately, due to Taash taking an overly defensive tone and their mother being calm by comparison, it comes off to many unfamiliar with such a dilemma that Taash's mother was being unfairly railed on by her child, despite the context making total sense within the universe. This leads to a scene that would otherwise be poignant being undercut by an awkward execution, even when the details of the scene in question make total sense on paper versus how it impresses on itself in practice.
The given reason for the removal was that "this trope is when character's actions make sense in-universe because they don't know something that the viewers do and thus the latter complain that the scene is irrational. In this case, it's not about having more knowledge of the characters (to the point the entry even says that viewers don't know certain elements, quite the opposite); plus, one complaint about taash's reaction is that it's very immature for their age, while it could've been more understandable if they were a teenager." Except that the edit itself notes that the execution is awkward and immature-sounding, and last I checked, the actual trope is that viewers do not realize that the plot is not known to the characters, or that they are in a story. In particular, that the Qun is very strict about gender roles, and so Taash being nonbinary does cause a breakdown in social roles.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I'm sincerely wondering.
Edited by LelielopenIs this an edit war?
On Characters.Rain World, this happened:
- I added a trope entry
, using a YMMV trope thinking it was deliberately invoked in-universe (Moral Event Horizon where the "audience reaction" is enacted by the work itself and not the audience).
- After a while, I grew concerned that it may have been misuse so I changed it to a non-YMMV trope
that seemed like the appropriate choice for the situation (in this case Beyond Redemption). I had not touched it since.
- Someone else changed it back to the YMMV trope
— with an explanation as to why they thought it fit better — and I was never told, I had to stumble upon it to find out.
Is this an edit war, or something else? I genuinely can't tell aside from the fact that a deliberate restoration happened after removal of what I thought was misuse. I've contacted the person and will see how that goes, but for now I just need to know if this is an edit war or not.
Edited by Eggy0openPossible error
I was editing the page for Chou Kuse ni Narisou and it is listed on the TimeImmemorial.Work Pages page. However, according to the work page itself, it was created in 2021.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openConcerning edit on The White Lotus
I stumbled across this on YMMV.The White Lotus Season Three:
- Diagnosed by the Audience: Some viewers have claimed that Frank's desire to be a submissive Asian woman is rather reminiscent of autogynephilia, a sexual fetish where a male is aroused by the thought of himself with female anatomy.
To my knowledge, "autogynephilia" is a transphobic dogwhistle which basically means "trans women are just perverted men with a fetish for becoming a woman." I don't think the term is used by anyone who isn't a TERF.
Putting that aside, I don't think this is a valid example anyway, as Diagnosed By The Audience is about mental illnesses and disorders, not fetishes. Maybe Trans Audience Interpretation could work for this example, but I'm not really familiar with the show so I'm not sure. I've just heard a little bit about the scene in question through other sites.
Edited by ZuxtronopenVandalism/gushing
Borught up here
, but I saw some bits that I'm certain are gushing on top of natter, and had to double-check if the troper's edits were natter on other pages too (the troper self-admitted in the edit reason, and they appear to be new, only having five edits).
On Characters.Sonic Boom Antagonists, in this edit
for Shadow the Hedgehog:
- Adaptational Jerkass: Shadow was never a saint, but he wasn't malicious and had several close friends. His original version was a Consummate Professional whose rivalry with Sonic was built around either seeing Sonic as a Worthy Opponent or an obstacle in the way. This version of Shadow is an arrogant (yet awesome) bastard who mocks Sonic for relying on his friends and wants nothing to do with them in the games. In the TV show, he's also a case of Vile Villain, Saccharine Show, being a villain that even intimidates Eggman, and knocks everyone else out of the way so he can fight Sonic one-on-one, and even then his motivations can be seen as petty.
- One-Man Army: He absolutely destroys Team Sonic like the scrubs they are, all by himself, just like the badass he is.
And these edits in Characters.Dragon Ball Z Abridged Movies for Broly here
- Hulk Speak: Just like the Trope Namer, he speaks like this after his homicidal personality surfaces.
Broly: Excuse Broly? (Rebel's Version: "Excuse me?")
- Mythology Gag: When Broly attempts to describe himself.
Broly: Monster? Broly's not a monster. Broly is a... huh...\ (Rebel's Version: Monster, you say?! I'm not a monster! I am... hmm...)Gohan: A genuine demon? note What Broly refers to himself as in the AB Groupe "Big Green" dub
—>Goku: A true freak? note What Broly refers to himself as in the Funimation dub
—>Broly: The Devil. note How Broly refers to himself in the original Japanese version and the Speedy dub
—>Vegeta: OH MY GOD, HE'S SO GODDAMN COOL! - Pre-Mortem One-Liner: Arguably, it's ambiguous whether he knew it would kill him or he simply didn't know his own strength. However, what is the last thing he says to his dad before crushing his pod (and him)? "HUG!" (Rebel's Version: "DEATH WAITS FOR NO ONE!")
- Pokémon Speak: As LSSJ, he devolves into Hulk Speak and then into saying only "Kakarot!" And also "hug"...while crushing his dad to death. Rebel's Version defies this with a huge passion.
- His general impatience even in casual conversation, especially in his Legendary form, also mirrors that of the aforementioned fans when they kept asking for Broly's movie to get the Abridged treatment.
Broly: BROLY DOES NOT LIKE TO WAIT! (Rebel's Version: "TIME'S UP, MOTHERFUCKER!")- Played straight after becoming the Legendary Super Saiyan: his interest in Trunks has increased to the point he thinks Trunks is his property.
Vegeta: You've been ignoring someone this entire time.
Broly: Broly's wife?\ (Rebel's Version Are you referring...to Trunks?
Trunks: Well, technically, I was the one who killed Freeza.
Broly: That's hot.
This is all grounds for vandalism and I can remove without issue, correct? I should also send both a natter and gushing notifiers too?
1x1x1x1 (NOT FORSAKEN)
openWould this be better as a trope or a useful notes page?
So, I am currently working on an article on the topic of "selfshipping" (not to be confused with Screw Yourself) on my sandbox page, but I don't know if this would be better off as a trope or a useful notes page.
openQuestion regarding Definition Only Pages
Let's say we have a Definition-Only Pages like Hat-and-Coat Shot which states that examples should not be added to work pages. Does this also mean that we should avoid potholing the trope in example lists?
For example, would this be allowed?
- Flyaway Shot: Explanation of the example, hat and coat pothole.
If potholing is allowed, what would be the rationale behind not allowing the trope to be listed by itself?
Edited by eroockopenDetermining whether certain content is "official" enough to trope
I'm looking to have a conversation on whether certain content can be official enough to be included as part of a work's (character) page, and kinda found myself stumped on finding a specific forum threat to ask this in due to the specific nature of the work in question, so I'm just gonna try here and see if anyone can help me out.
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition has 12 character classes that developers Wizards of the Coast consider "official" canonnote Artificer was a late addition which was not in the game's SRD, but that's an issue for another time, and those classes are documented appropriately on Dungeons & Dragons Classes: Fifth Edition Classes. However, I'm wondering if there's enough room to document the additional "unofficial, yet WotC-endorsed" classes of Blood Hunter and Illrigger, both of which are technically homebrew content created by third-party developers, but are available as selectable character options on D&D Beyond, what has become WotC's official toolset/digital platform for maintaining games of D&D.
Something that may give this precedent is that back in Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition (especially 3.5E), there used to be PrestigeClasses — extra character classes beyond the central "core" lineup exclusive to certain sourcebooks. Due to not being core classes, they aren't referenced as part of the game's official, vanilla lineup and "canon" means of play, but they were options that WotC considered official enough to publish, and they're evidently enough to warrant a character page specifically to document them. Blood Hunter and Illrigger fall into a similar grey area for 5E, but I'd like a second, well-informed opinion of anyone who can piece together whether this makes sense, and whether or not we can trope those content as part of Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition (with an understanding that it is only kinda-sorta-official).
Edited by number9roboticopenInappropriate No Yay quotes?
The No Yay trope is supposed to be about fictional relationships that are disgusting because of something wrong with the relationship itself (pedophilia, coercion, Unequal Pairings, rape, incest, etc.), correct? It's not for relationships that turn people off of shipping just because one or both of the participants are butt-ugly. That sounds more like Fan Disservice or Fetish Retardant.
With that said, some of the quotes on the Quotes page appear to have missed that memo…
- "This teaches us all a valuable lesson—rape is undesirable when ugly people are doing it."
That's the standout, though there were some others that also raised my eyebrows.
openHow should I include this information? Videogame
Sorry if this is confusingly worded. If this is more of a Trope Finder sort of question, please tell me so or redirect me to elsewhere more appropriate.
Context: This query is about the song “Corruption” from the Phineas & Ferb themed Friday Night Funkin’ one-shot mod of the same name.
The mod’s creator Milo008 has released a remake of the song called Corrosion V2
with significant changes to production, most notably the lyrics rewritten to be more in-character. While the remake was never officially brought into the mod, it was very well received among fans of the one-shot and was considered to be even better than the original, to the point that there were multiple unofficial fan-made charts of this song for the mod itself.
I feel that this information is important to include in the description of this mod, but I don’t know how to mention this remake in the page, or to even mention it at all since it's outside of the mod.
Please advise.
Edited by Duy03openScrappy Misuse
YMMV.My Brave Pony Starfleet Magic
- The Scrappy: Even with readers who find the fic to be So Bad, It's Good, various characters leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
- By far, the most hated character in the entire fic is Rhymey. He has no personality outside of his annoying Running Gag of always rhyming and arguably contributes the least of the Starfleet, which is saying a lot. While he is meant to be a Plucky Comic Relief, his jokes and rhyming quickly became annoying due to how constant and uninteresting they are. Additionally, despite not having any significant backstory or character development, he ends up taking up as much screentime and standalone adventures as Lightning and, despite his aforementioned lack of contributions, parades his successes for attention and as an excuse to do whatever he wants. His questionable relationship with Fluttershy doesn't help. Unsurprisingly, most docs based on Starfleet tend to have him killed off or Demoted to Extra.
- Goldwin, besides sharing a lot of problems with Rhymey, spends a lot of his time complaining about not being a real unicorn, constantly taking his mask off as a Running Gag despite the fact that it basically kills him, and constantly putting actual heroics on hold in favor of complaining.
- Dr. Emil Kudos is hated for just how Unintentionally Unsympathetic he is. He was dumped prior to the story in favor of a unicorn, so his response is to lead a massive conspiracy against his own people out of spite towards magic and abducts Peni just to rub it in her face and later kills himself just to spite her. Needless to say, several readers did not feel the same amount of sympathy towards him as Starfleet did.
Prior cleanup
said this works doesn't count as Scrappy must be hated by those who unironically like the work. Permission to re-remove and add a note? (Asking here because Scrappy cleanup
has yet to reply to current unrelated inquiry there.)
openCan I trope my autobiography? Literature
I'd like to create a trope page for my self-published autobiography Andy's Nature: Asperger's, Obesity and the Supernatural. Would this be allowable? If so, could I link it to my You Tube channel? The channel is linked to my website, which in turn is linked to the book's Amazon page, and I understand commercial links are forbidden on TVT.
openCreating subpages are free will ?
Pretty self explanatory. Some subpages like Cyberpunk.Video Games and AnimeAndManga.Scenery Porn look very long enough to have their own subpages back. Its okay to re-create a subpage without discussion ?
openQuestion on what Useful Notes are supposed to cover.
So, if I'm not mistaken, Useful Notes are supposed to be about explaining complicated real world topics to help media consumers understand context when they see them in works and for writers to help them write difficult topics better. A while ago I came across UsefulNotes.Cult, and the last half of the page is entirely dedicated to offsite resources for more on cults, often about how to recognize real cults and how to avoid joining them. Many of the books referenced are out of print and/or expensive, and many of the links to websites are dead or the sites are inactive, but right now I'm more worried about the "largely for helping people avoid joining cults IRL" angle, because I looked through some of the other Psychology UN pages, and there's others that have problems too. From least concerning to most concerning:
- UsefulNotes.Alcoholism And Alcohol Abuse - This page is entirely written as a help page, but I'm torn on what to do on it because alcoholism is almost never portrayed correctly in media and thus is one of the more warranted UN pages. You could also argue that it's closer to the illness pages like UsefulNotes.Depression or UsefulNotes.Personality Disorders (which I think in general are written much better than the other ones I've listed) and thus has merit to stay as is or close to as is.
- UsefulNotes.Trigger - Most of this is pretty alright, and it has merit to be a UN page as it is technically fanspeak, but it definitely gets a little... heated - "Due to the seriousness of this trigger, it is good Netiquette and being a decent human being to offer at least some warning of suicide, of ruminations on suicide and suicidality, or on things that are guaranteed to be severely depressing and bring out such emotions." This kind of language shows up a couple of times here and other similar pages. Notably, this kinda conflicts with the message we have at the top of this page that says don't add trigger warningsnote and the "guaranteed to be severely depressing and bring out such emotions" part conflicts with what we say later that not all people who are suicidal will be triggered by depictions of suicide. Are we not decent human beings anymore?
- UsefulNotes.Victim Blaming - This page says it's about trying to prevent victim blaming in fiction, but is that really a problem? How often do people unintentionally blame victims in their writing? This is just self-help (and possibly soapboxing) disguised as writing advice. Much of it is just a list of examples of victim blaming, and aside from the weird ones (how is blaming a child for wetting the bed "victim blaming", wetting the bed is a victimless non-crime), I think all of these are fairly obvious from explaining the concept. Also, both this page and the next are very vague on who in situations are "victims" and who are "perpetrators"note for instance, if a car hits and injures a jaywalker they had no chance to avoid, who is the victim? Failure to prevent isn't always a fallacy., and that's confusing at best and a problem at worst.
- UsefulNotes.Abuse - This page doesn't even pretend it's connected to anything related to works of fiction. It's largely about telling abuse victims it's not their fault and how to help yourself/friends get out of abusive situations. There's also this very concerning section in Disability Is An Excuse For Jerkassery: "Furthermore, it is not bigoted or ableist to say that there are certain disorders (primarily Cluster B personality disorders and certain types of bipolar disorder) that should absolutely bar you from dating unless they are properly managed, which means sticking to all prescribed medications and therapy regimens without deviation. Again (because this cannot be stated enough), if you have a disorder that has an extremely high correlation with being toxic or abusive and you are not taking the proper steps to manage it, you have no business being in a relationship." Uh, no, this is actually ableist as hell. This perpetuates the stereotype that the mentally ill (especially people with the "scary" mental illnesses) are a danger to society unless they're sedated into submissionnote not to mention how, especially to someone who, oh, I don't know, is bipolar in a depressive phase, this section might come off as saying that they should avoid any relationships, with anyone, altogether - don't forget that the page isn't just about abuse between romantic/sexual partners, but also toxic friendships, toxic family dynamics, child abuse, elder abuse... this can absolutely send the message that people with mental illnesses should just entirely isolate themselves to avoid their inherent nature to abuse others, and, I'm no expert, but I think that's not a good message?.
We Permanent Red Link Club'ed Useful Notes Suicide Prevention because we decided we weren't qualified to give medical advicenote and because most of the suicide hotlines we were linking to were country-locked, it wasn't fair to visitors who lived in countries where we couldn't find an active suicide hotline. UsefulNotes.Suicide, for what it's worth, is in pretty good shape following its cleanup and locking.. What is our stance on giving self-help on UN pages?
Edited by MissConductopenSelf-Demonstrating Character Pages
Hypothetically speaking, how would one go about making a new self-demonstrating character pages?

I have noticed in some of my videos that some secondary tropes have been added by other users/tropers, even though I myself have not added them. How do people add secondary tropes to video examples that were not uploaded by them?