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Ask the Tropers:
openIndexing Law and Order episodes Live Action TV
Apologies in advance if I missed something, a thread, a how to, but my searches have been fruitless. I am filling in Law and Order episode recaps, but I don't know how to index them once they are created. I've been able to self teach and learn from other posts, but this one I'm stuck on.
openProper Namespace for an OELManga Series?
I'd like to create a page for the OEL Manga "Orange Crows", but I'm conflicted over what namespace to put it in; Manga or Comic Books. (Clicking around in the OEL Manga titles section shows that it covers works from both namespaces, which only deepens my confusion.)
On the "Manga" side: the work was generally marketed as a "manga" when the first volume was released in the late 2000's, it was originally published by Tokyopop in their standard 5 in. × 7.5 in. tankobon format, and it draws heavily on manga style.
On the "Comic Book" side: it was written by an American author, it reads from right-to-left, and I can't find evidence that it was ever released outside of the USA. (It appears the author self-published the second volume in a similar tankobon format outside of the Tokyopop imprint.)
I would lean towards putting the work in the Comic Books namespace, but I figured I would pose the question here for propriety's sake. Is there a consensus on these matters that doesn't appear on the OEL Manga page?
Edited by LeporidaeopenEdit War involving Flame Bait
Today, I was going through and removing Flame Bait from various YMMV pages (and a couple of others). When I found this page
, I saw it had a So Bad, It's Horrible entry (which was apparently an intended reaction). I promptly removed it; no other YMMV page has a SBIH entry, and hasn't in a long time. But then, I looked at the edit history (probably should have done that to begin with) to see who added it. Somebody had added it only a few days ago...
And they had also added it back in November of last year. And I had removed it a few months later (which I forgot about). It's an edit war. Which I've (unknowingly) got myself into.
So, what should I do? If I revert my own edit, will that push me out of Edit War territory? Or will it not make a difference?
Edited by Shadow8411openCompletely Different Title
jOSEFdelaville deleted some examples from CompletelyDifferentTitle.English:
- The Castafiore Emerald was originally Les bijoux de la Castafiore, or The Jewels of la Castafiore.
- Flight 714 was originally Flight 714 to Sydney (Vol 714 pour Sydney); but the extra bit has been added back to recent editions of the comic printed in Britain.
- Le ciel lui tombe sur la tête (The sky is falling on his head) = Asterix and the Falling Sky
- Asterix in Spain instead of "in Hispania" (again, how the country was called in that time, and also through the book itself).
- Asterix in Britain instead of "among the Britons".
The edit reason was "Not really completely different." While it's true that they have some similarity, they definitely are deliberate, noticeable choices. Does it really have to be entirely different? Can they go somewhere else?
In addition, the edit also changed "among the Helvetians" to "at the Helvetians" (original French chez les Helvètes). That may be technically more accurate to the word "chez", but "at the Helvetians" doesn't read grammatically correct. Can anyone weigh in on this?
Edited by nw09openCan this be reviewed, please?
So flblbl has just made a very big edit to the Transgender Useful Notes page here
. I wanted to ask if other Tropers could review it and see if it's all good—I know this topic has been under a lot of discussion on the wiki as of late.
I'm also a bit wary because the edit reason contains "did delete a bunch of stuff that was just weird cis scientific voyeurist crackpot theories and self-congratulatory pats in the back"
But anyways, I'm a cis person who isn't well versed in this subject AT ALL so I'd appreciate some others' input.
Edited by iamconstantineopenWMG/EverybodyCries
I happen upon the trope page for Everybody Cries and I'm perplexed to find a WMG subpage. There's no media namespace of the same name, and the page itself (WMG.Everybody Cries) doesn't help much.
openI think I edit warred by mistake.
I think I edit warred by mistake. So it was decided that the Resident Evil games can't have an FPC on the FPC cleanup thread a while ago. Here is a link
. Leon in particular is given Ship Tease with everyone, and lacks an official pairing which is needed for the trope. However today I noticed an entry on YMMV.Resident Evil 2 Remake. It was for Leon and Claire who are given Ship Tease in the remake. This already makes it impossible to for it be a FPC as it's for non-canon ships, and Ship Tease means that the creators meant for it to be shipped. So I removed it here
. However, I hadn't noticed that it had been removed and readded by tropers that are not me. As I didn't check the edit history.
Did I edit war? If so I will accept the consequences and would like to report myself.
Edited by BullmanopenFollow-up query to RedMoonAlgesco
The original query is long buried by this point, but consider this new query a "bump" of sorts because Red Moon Algesco is still displaying very bad editing issues. Most notably on Characters.Genshin Impact Archons (history here
).
Here's an example they added to Baal's profile, which is a clear violation of Example Indentation in Trope Lists.
- Jerkass: Baal is a very self-centered, arrogant and egotistic Archon who rules Inazuma as more of a ruthless Dictator than a proper Ruler. To summarize...
- Jerkass Gods: Compared to the mischievous Venti and the collected Zhongli, Baal is a massive Narcissist who holds her country in an iron grip and even initiates a decree to seize all vision-holders inside her domain. It is said that as of currently, it has been a year since she granted anyone an Electro vision. Reasons for this is currently unknown.
openSelf Promoting Troper?
This one is a bit weird, and I'm not sure It's strictly bad, it's just... weird and I wanted to probe the hive mind about it.
Charles Phipps is clearly Creator.CT Phipps (He makes no secret of this, it's his forum signature), which, fine, authors can be tropers and trope their own works. The part that gets weird is whenever he write an example in a trope page about his work, he'll always plug the work name "by C.T. Phipps". For examples:
- This is the policy of the Vampire Nation in Straight Outta Fangton by C.T. Phipps. (...)
- This is the case for vampires in the Straight Outta Fangton books by C.T. Phipps. (...)
- Gary Karkofsky in The Supervillainy Saga by C.T. Phipps is a prime example of such. (...)
(See basically any trope page one his creator page's related to tab
)
Now, this isn't strictly wrong at all. It's just that we don't usually list the author of a work in an example unless it's relevant and there's no policy for or against it afaik, and even then that's not a big issue, what makes me bring this here is that it's clearly being done by the author himself so it kinda enters this weird Shameless Self-Promotion territory and I'm not sure if it's something that needs to be addressed. And again, I wanna emphasize that this isn't like he's sockpuppetting or anything, he's pretty open about who he is. I'm not accusing him of violating actual policy or anything underhanded, it's more a question of form.
I removed the one in Stronger with Age at first coz it felt weird to have just the one example that listed an author, but undid it coz I really wasn't sure how to proceed.
Edited by GhilzopenRedirect policy and one-man cleanup projects
A while ago, I noticed that Vulkus (who I'm pinging here so they can respond) had started to systematically remove all redirects to The Legend of Zelda: Oracle Games (primarily The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons, the two games in the duology) and replacing them with the main page name. I was a little concerned, primarily because a) most of the examples affected were specific to one game or the other but not shared between them, so I wasn't too clear on the reasoning, b) relatedly, Vulkus did not leave any edit reasons nor links to any discussions to explain what they were doing, and c) this seemed like kind of a big project do out of one's own initiative. I contacted them through PMs to ask what was going on, and they stated that they were in the process of removing all redirects for certain pages that in their opinion had too many (they specifically identified the The Legend of Zelda and Golden Sun games here). Their stated reasoning was that these pages had been given too many redirects by a specific troper and that these redirects clutter up the pages for mobile users, and so they were intending to remove them all.
The primary reason I'm concerned here is that from what I'm understanding of this, this is far too big a project for a single troper to just decide they're going to across the entire site without consulting anyone else — especially if this is supposed to include actively cutting the redirects on all these pages right now instead of "just" editing examples to have a different active link. This was the primary thing I was trying to stress in my messages, but I'm not too certain I got my point across because after a while they simply stopped responding to me but continued right on with their one-troper cleanup project (they finished with the Oracle games, moved on to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and I think they're on The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess right now). Essentially, they decided to undertake a wide-scale wiki project on their own, apparently did not attempt to engage in any discussion over this before implementing it, did not leave justifications in their edit reasons, and simply cut off communication without altering their editing when contacted independently. I'm a little concerned about this.
Regarding the issue itself, I would actually tend to agree with their basic reasoning (a lot of the Zelda redirects are simply truncated or modified versions of the titles that don't seem to have ever actually been used officially, which does mean that they probably shouldn't actually exist) — but this should have been discussed and agreed on publicly, not decided by one person without oversight or input. This is especially so because a number of the redirects are the valid titles of secondary games and re-releases, and it seems to me that they would be the appropriate links to use for tropes and examples specific to them and not the broader and/or base work.
Basically, this should have been taken to the forums, and probably should be taken there still. A dedicated redirect cleanup thread is probably something we could make use of.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openComplaining and poor grammar on Music
Radiant Dawn Lord has made a few very complainy edits, with grammar and wording issues, to YMMV.Music 2021. The most recent one, which was made today, is this one:
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: Aside from Maddie being forced to take the role as an autistic character and was very sad about it, the character Music herself suffers from this. Her sister, Zu, just sees her as an unhuman-like burden, and all those supposed "treatments" she gets when she stims are actually restraining techniques that are SO BAD they can potentially hurt, or worst-case kill, Music. It's really not hard to feel sorry her, character and actress. Seriously, Music and Maddie should have deserved better, and should have been not made as caricatures not just for autistic people, but also for disabled people in general.
Others include the following (these have since been rewritten):
- Pandering to the Base (just this alone, with no additional context)
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Music, oh so much. If this film actually received any help from REAL autistic people, Music would've not only had more screen time, but would've also been portrayed as a much more reasonable and sympathetic character who'll actually have a very cement supporting relationship with her sister, rather than as an immature Hollywood autistic burden she was being portrayed as.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Obviously, this film would have been more meaningful and inspirational if the main character, Zu, actually spent some time in the film getting to know her sister, Music, and understand her needs so both Music and Zu can have a decent character development plot. But, instead, this is just about Zu, and only Zu, trying to cope with own struggles of alcoholism, drug dealing, and trying to deal with her "poorly behaved" autistic sister, and not much else.
I have previously sent a notifier for the poor grammar on these past edits.
Edited by ZuxtronopenDesignated Hero and Villain in Wonder Woman 1984 Film
The YMMV page of Wonder Woman 1984 places both Wonder Woman and the Cheetah as Designated Hero and Villain, respectively, under the following arguments:
- Designated Hero: At its worst, the film makes Steve Trevor out to be more of a heroic figure than Diana herself, particularly where it comes to Steve's situation. From using the body of the "Handsome Man" for sexual activity without any ability to consent (which is sexual assault and/or rape) to her reluctance to ever let this nameless man have his own life back instead of keeping Steve possessing him, she is rather selfish overall, with it being Steve insisting on her going to save the world from catastrophe. Much like the prior film chronologically, she only allows someone or something she truly desires to leave when the object of desire itself says so while telling of her heroism, showing that if she actually has a possible penalty to her actions personally on an emotional level, she would more likely not suffer said consequences at the expense of the world unless forced to.
- Designated Villain: Barbara's wish to be like Diana is completely understandable given her circumstances. She's overlooked by almost everyone at work despite her positive qualities such as her sweetness and her knowledge. She had to rely on Diana to save her from a rapist, with the only lesson said rapist learned from the encounter was that Barbara was powerless on her own. Steve then tells Barbara and Diana that anyone who made a wish on the stone must renounce it regardless of their reasons for making the wish. Diana agrees with Barbara that they just can't do that; they are both reluctant to renounce their wishes. It doesn't help that Barbara's wish is corrupting her mind, while Diana's own wish is for reasons that seem frivolous in the big picture (see Designated Hero). Adding to all of this is that Barbara's less-sympathetic moments only ever kicked in during moments when selfishness would be a natural reaction. For what it's worth, Diana never sees Barbara as a villain and keeps trying to reason with her; Barbara momentarily stops attacking Diana on seeing the latter renounced her wish.
Okay, I have to ask, are these arguments valid? I did watch the movie, personally I believe these arguments to be flawed. The movie goes out of its way to make Wonder Woman realize it's selfish of her to keep her wish, especially because of the price she has to pay. As for Cheetah, she she never visibly renounces her wish even after seeing the consequences the collective wishes of humanity are having on the entire world.
I know that YMMV pages are meant to be opinionated, but it looks like there are people who using this particular YMMV page to voice their grievances with this movie and I would like to remind everyone that TV Tropes and the Internet are not your personal echo chambers you can use to say whatever you want and not expect any consequences.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopenLying Creator only about plot?
Is Lying Creator supposed to refer only to cases where the creators lie about the plot in order to protect plot twists? The page itself has many examples of creators "lying" about other things. I kind of feel like stretching it beyond twist-hiding lies might make it too complain-baity and subjective.
openCan Trivia be played with? Videogame
Exactly What It Says on the Tin: I'm wondering if Trivia can be played with. Specifically, I'm asking in regards to Trivia.Super Smash Bros, as the Unintentional Period Piece has two bullet points; one which explains how the first three games are this (due to them being Museum Games that released before games could be regularly updated, and as such are limited to what existed at the time of development), and one which explains how the fourth and fifth games avert this by adding in new content from games which were concurrent to and/or released after Smash itself.
I looked at What Goes Where on the Wiki and Trivia and they don't mention it at all; compare to YMMV.Home Page, which does.
openLaconic troubles...
Laconic.Zeldas Honor was brought up in the Laconic improvement thread
for being distinctly unlaconic (i.e. way too dang long). We took a crack at trimming it down
, but Chrononaut 70 came back and added many of the unnecessary words back
.
Can't revert it ourself cause that's an edit war, pinging them in the thread
got no response so we think they just don't read their DMs.
halp
openBrokenMasquerade - no examples list
The trope page Broken Masquerade is a bit... odd. To start, it's sort of written "in character", like the writer is part of the masquerade and is delivering The Reveal to the reader. From what I've seen, that sort of thing seems to be used more in Self-Demonstrating/ pages than Main/. Maybe this is actually okay; it just struck me as a bit unusual.
The bigger issue, though, is that there isn't an example list. There's a subbullet under each main "type" of masquerade (like Tomato in the Mirror, Hidden Realm, etc) with a list of "Signature Examples" provided, but it's just a list of works with no explanation of how they fit.
Is it okay to restructure it like a typical trope page, with examples in a separate section? Broken Masquerade currently has 752 wicks, so I could probably find at least a 5-10 good examples to start off the crosswicking.
Edited by Willowleaf24openWebcomic page wiped by creator Webcomic
It seems that we have one of these situations again: Gerbil1
wiped pretty much everything on the The Misadventures Of Gerbil main page and YMMV page. The main page edit had the following edit reason:
As author of this page (and the original comic), this was a mistake. The comic itself has long been wiped from the internet. I'd prefer not to have my name associated with it any longer.
For the record, the link that was on the page does not appear to work any longer, but I haven't done anything past that to see if it still exists in some fashion.
openMore custom titling kerfuffles
Colon Cancer was recently custom titled to be self demonstrating. While this is somewhat amusing, it also renders the title nonsensical and isn't even an actual example of the trope since there's only one colon, not at least two (and there can't be more colons without breaking the words up, of course). We discussed this a bit here
already. I personally think it should be changed back; do I have permission to do that?

When I created Pinball.Stranger Things last year, I indexed it under The New '10s because it was revealed in December 2019, with at least outside forum post noting that someone had received a machine before 2020 began. Now, however, I find myself wondering if I should categorize and index it as a 2020 release instead, as the vast majority of machines were manufactured and released that year. (Long story short: there are three different versions of the game, all of which entered production at different times. The Internet Pinball Database lists the Pro model
as beginning manufacturing in December 2019, though the Premium
and Limited
models started in early 2020. In addition, the TWIPYs - the most prominent pinball awards show as of present - listed it among other 2020 pinball games for their most recent ceremony
.)
Edited by BlueGuy