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Ask the Tropers:
openWhat is this?
Peacefulpie is a new troper, and their edits are kind of odd.
- Here
, they switched 'Tolstoy" to 'Toystory'.
- Here
, they switched 'Pushkin' to 'Pushykins'.
- Here
, they switched 'Gogol' to 'Googly eyes".
- Here
, they seem to make a toilet joke in an image caption. It looks like they also removed the image itself (and added
a commented-out note with 5 misprints) but that's been fixed by now.
- They expanded
an image caption, then deleted
their addition saying "vandalism" in the edit reason.
openPotential Sockpuppet
I suspect Lord Of All could be a sockpuppet of Lemarhoffman, just like RileyBrant 20, yoyospinner17, and gothamarkhamlord
. They both:
- Talk alike, e.g. leaving "Minor edits" as an
edit reason
.
- Have edited the same page, at least when Lemarhoffman was Riley Brant 20, namely Characters.The Amazing World Of Gumball Gumball Wattersonlinks evidence #1
, evidence #2
and Characters.The Big Bang Theory Sheldon Cooperlinks evidence #1
and evidence #2
.
- Are apparently Batman fans; Lord Of All has an avatar
of the man himself with Lemarhoffman's page saying on his page that he enjoyed several works from said series.
Also, it's notable that Lord Of All's account seemed like it was created shortly after Lemarhoffman's otherwise most recent sockpuppet (Riley Brant 20) was bounced
.
I would like to hear what you all think, especially if you're a mod. (From my experience, mods are the best at figuring out whether a troper is a sockpuppet or not.)
EDIT: For the curious, I referred to Lemarhoffman as a guy because his page reveals he's that.
Edited by RandomTroper123open"They Changed It, Now It Sucks!" misuse?
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: The manner used to bring John to his Silent Protagonist self from the games ( which amounts to him undergoing Death of Personality so that Cortana can drive his body) has been absolutely eviscerated by fans. Part of this is due to the fact that many had no problems with John having a personality on the first place, instead disliking the Adaptational Personality Change he went in the series. Many also viewed it as a tone-deaf insult toward fans.
I question if this is an example as it's not the change from the original that this states it disliked, but changing/undoing his Adaptational Personality Change which was already disliked. So dislike for the means of bringing him more in line with the original, that sounds like something else. Maybe Fan-Disliked Explanation? Anything else a better fit?
openQuestionable entries to NotWorthKilling .
Thought I would bring this here instead of just going in and deleting examples. Want to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree. The Not Worth Killing page has many entries that are questionable at best, and others that seem to be roughly shoehorned in to make them fit.
Some examples: Under the Real Life section, this is given as the reason Ali signaled the ref to end his fight against Jerry Quarry. Anyone who has seen or knows about the fight knows that is not the case. Quarry put up a valiant effort but by the seventh round was completely out of gas and could barely defend himself. Ali was deriving no satisfaction whatsoever out of pummeling him, because Everyone Has Standards, and even the commentators were openly wondering why the ref hadn't stopped the fight. After the fight Ali personally went to Quarry's corner to make certain he was okay and speak kind words of encouragement to him. Not Worth Killing simply doesn't apply.
Also under Real Life, the BBFC returning the film New York Ripper to Italy has nothing to do with killing anyone (it's a film, not a person). Again, you could probably say the BBFC was just displaying Everyone Has Standards.
Under the Live-Action TV section, take the Daredevil example of Fisk telling Wesley not to kill Karen. It isn't that Fisk thinks she's not worth killing, it's just that everything she knows is already in the papers so done is done, and Fisk does show her respect. If killing her would have kept it out of the papers, she'd be dead because she would have been worth killing.
Under Film - Live Action, the Breaking Dawn example feels incredibly shoehorned in, Cruel Mercy is what really applies.
The Predator example is another. It's not that Dutch thinks the Predator is not worth killing, far from it. He can already see it's mortally wounded, so he drops the rock and asks it a question ("what the hell are you?"). Big mistake on his part, because it gives the predator the opportunity to activate the self-destruct feature in his armor.
Okay, that's all. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
Edited by Traveler123openA little too much real-life troping on Michael Jackson Music
chizo made some absolutely massive
edits to Michael Jackson's main page, and probably edited some of the subpages as well. Most of these are troping the man himself, and also bloated his page description by a crazy amount. Much of the page description can honestly go with the RL tropes, but I wanted to get consensus before firing up the chainsaw.
openPages for Tropers
I was thinking about making a laconic page about myself which would be a very short description of me. Is this allowed?
open Troper deleting entries without providing reasons
frogpatrol has been deleting examples from Ambiguously Human without leaving an edit reason for doing so.
- Although referred to as an alien (and it would make her a Human Alien), Skye in the 2021 John Lewis Christmas advert
looks human enough but it's never clarified if she is a human, Half-Human Hybrid or Human Alien, with only her unfamiliarity with earth and Christmas making it quite unclear what she is exactly. She doesn't have any abilities associated with a human alien, but her behavior suggests she isn't quite human.
- Batman:
- Jack Nicholson's Joker in Batman (1989). While his pre-clown persona, Jack Napier, is unquestionably human, you have to wonder about exactly what happened to Napier after he fell into that acid; after all, No One Could Survive That!. It's undeniably creepy when the Joker tells his first victim: "I've been dead once already; it's very liberating." During his face-off with the Batwing during the parade, he seems almost unafraid of death; does he believe he's become immortal? And just how are we supposed to interpret the Joker's signature line "Did you ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlight?" (He was already saying that as Napier, but on the other hand it could have been Foreshadowing.)
- In Batman Returns there's Selina Kyle, who's Ambiguously Alive. It's never made clear whether she survived being pushed out that high window (she only awakens after the alley cats lick and bite her, and up to that point she appeared pretty dead), and given Catwoman's borderline superhuman and/or supernatural powers (though many have noted there are logical in-universe explanations for those) it's possible that Catwoman/Selina is no longer human, but some kind of avenging angel/zombie/feline hybrid.
- Almost all of the members of the Penguin's Red Triangle Gang, though grotesquely costumed, are obviously human in appearance, and the Penguin himself is shown to be the deformed offspring of human parents (though in his madness, he thinks he's nonhuman)... but then there are those "skeleton-bikers" who tear around Gotham Plaza when the gang launches its first attack. They're about the same size as the human characters, and obviously a villain with the power to raise the undead would have far grander plans in mind than the Penguin does in this movie, but... those skulls. They look real, and they're much too large to be ordinary masks. You have to look very closely to make out the actors' bare skin underneath, making it clear that what we're seeing is just a really high-tech Hollywood makeup job — although whether that's the case in-universe is doubtful, especially since the gang is living in near-poverty in the Gotham City sewers.]]
- A pretty common interpretation of the Man With No Name character in the Dollars Trilogy is that he isn't a human being. He appears to show only Inhuman Emotion, has near-supernatural abilities with guns, has Blue-and-Orange Morality to the extent of Designated Hero at points, and is virtually identical in appearance during both the 1860s (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) and 1890s (For a Few Dollars More). A more mundane interpretation is that the three films don't take place in the same 'universe' and that the Man is a different character each time, though the way that The Good, The Bad and The Ugly goes out of its way to show his origin story makes this a Continuity Snarl.
- Halloween (or at least the installments without anything overtly supernatural) has Michael Myers. Maybe he's some kind of indestructible boogeyman, or maybe he's just a very tough and persistent Serial Killer.
- The cast of Milky Way and the Galaxy Girls look like humans, though some have unusual hair colors. They are however anthropomorphic planets (though normal planets also exist in their universe) so it's unlikely they're human or that they age like humans.
- The Nations from Hetalia: Axis Powers all appear human, but live for ridiculously long amounts of time (China is 4,000 years old and, by Word of God, immortal) and their physical age is tied to the military strength of the country they represent. Their "birth" consists of them randomly showing up in an area as a very small child, and most if not all of their family relations are Not Blood Siblings. Also, their physical wellbeing is directly affected by the status of their country (Spain is made ill by The Mafia in his country, Lichtenstein nearly starves to death when her country is in a depression, and Hungary is "freakishly strong" around the time when her country helped with the War of Austrian Succession).
Again, frogpatrol has left no edit reasons, I have no way of knowing whether these deletions were justified or not.
openmaking a Tropers page for myself but I have a special character in my username
I want to make a Tropers page for myself but I have a special character in my username. since I can't make a Tropers/Professional_Noob page, is there something else can I do instead?
openNeed to know this Webcomic
Is there a place where i can suggest works to be added? I want to see Mirror Stories by Lancer Gaming added to the wiki but don’t have the self-confidence or writing skills to add it myself, please and thank you.
openCut page or replacement entry?
The only entry under YMMV.Star Trek Strange New Worlds S 1 E 03 Ghosts Of Illyria:
- Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped: Una, as a member of a species whom the Federation has been prejudiced against, expresses her fear that Pike (and others) are only willing to accept and defend her because she continuously proves herself to be exceptional and heroic, and that such acceptance wouldn't be extended to Illyrians who simply exist as ordinary people.
SANTBD was cut and turned into a redirect to Only entry was cut and redirected to Anvilicious, which does not apply here as the entry is not about the heavy handedness of the message. I assume the page should be cut unless any other YMMV items can be found for the page. Any other YMMV's to put there or reason not to cut?
In cases like this where the only entry is a redirect or cut item and is objective misuse of the replacement, do they need to be ran by here before cutlisting?
openFaux Action Girls in Yu-Gi-Oh! Anime
Jack Pot 21 has been continuously removing the Faux Action Girl entries in the different Yu-Gi-Oh! pages throughout the years, even after multiple users have been re-editing, providing justifications and reworking entries so that they show what the trope entails.
- Yu-Gi-Oh!: Mai Kujaku/Valentine is setup as a powerful duelist that manages to defeat Rex Raptor (the Japanese Championship runner-up) off-screen. However, she never manages to back-up said reputation, losing all of her major on-screen duels with the exception of one against Jean-Claude Magnum (a one-off mook) and one against Joey (who was thoroughly exhausted by his duel with Valon in the same episode) in the Doma arc.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's: Akiza is an interesting example of this. She has a fearsome reputation as the "Black Rose Witch", a ferocious and powerful psychic duelist that enjoys inflicting pain on others. This is eventually revealed to be a facade created by Akiza as a response to being treated as a monster. As such, she goes from easily stomping her opponents and nearly defeating Yusei in the Fortune Cup, to losing in less than two turns to Andore in the WRGP. She also loses her psychic powers without much of a reason.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL: Rio Kamishiro is presented as The Ace that is both academically and sports-gifted, with many characters expressing awe at how competent and scary she is. However, she never quite manages to leave the shadow of her brother Shark, mostly serving as a source for his character drama and getting hospitalized, kidnapped, possessed, thrown-off a cliff, hospitalized (again) and finally killed by characters that just wanted to hurt and/or attract Shark's attention, with Rio never able to fight back once.
- Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS:
- Blue Angel/Aoi Zaizen is one of the most prominent Charisma Duelists in Link VRAINS, presented with a bubbly and energetic idol persona, but willing to prove herself as a duelist to her brother and Yusaku, and also getting multiple avatar makeovers related to her development, as if setting up a big character moment. Unfortunately, she always loses her duels against plot-prominent villains (and the protagonists), with her loss to Specter being presented as particularly humiliating. This is possibly lampshaded by the characters in the final episode, as Kusanagi thanks Aoi and the others for saving his brother and Link VRAINS, with Aoi admitting that she actually didn't do anything.
- Emma Besho/Ghost Girl is presented as a skillful hacker and bounty hunter hired by Akira Zaizen to gather information about Playmaker. She's actually quite competent at collecting data, spying on others and making her way through Link Vrains; it's the "bounty hunter" part of her description that she always fails at, with her only win in the entirety of VRAINS being against Brave Max. This is particularly ironic, given that her Altergeist deck was one of the most competitive decks ever featured in the anime.
Jack Pot 21 has been removing any entries regarding the franchise since some years ago with many shifting justifications. First it was that the entries centered around winrates; then when the entries were adjusted to not focus on winrates, he added the justification that "examples for this entry can be very subjective", but I can't help but feel that this is agenda-driven edition, and that he feels that the entries are attacks on the characters themselves rather than assessments of how the (male) staff has issues writing women, which is something that the YGO fanbase has acknowledged over and over.
When his original argument for the removal of the entries was
"Having what’s personally deem as an “unimpressive victory” or because they don’t have enough duels doesn’t mean a female character a Faux Action Girl. Aki for example has a good win/loss ratio, yet she’s labeled as one simply for being nicer in the second season, ignoring the fact she only had one loss and a few Action Girl moments outside of duels."
Which seems to me a very suspect justification shift, as he went from claiming that "not having enough duels doesn't mean a female character is a Faux Action Girl" to saying that "Rio's examples don't even include anything duel-related" which are two contradicting statements.
Also, I quote one of the opening statements in the Faux Action Girl definition
"She has a well-grounded reputation as a strong fighter in her field but always fails miserably in the line of battle. Her talents and skills are well-known to fellow characters but for some strange reason, they're never seen by the viewers outside of perhaps A Day in the Limelight episode"
YGO is a shonen battle anime, in which the fights are card-game duels. Most of these examples include characters that have strong reputations in dueling, but they always fail miserably. They even get the "Talents and skills are well known to fellow characters but they're never seen outside of perhaps a Day in the Limelight episode", which is particularly glaring with Rio Kamishiro, who only got a character focus episode before going back to serving as a source of character drama for Shark.
Addendum: It seems like Jack Pot 21 has already had multiple issues through the wiki by attempting to tweak Yu-Gi-Oh pages to show what only he thinks are valid examples despite evidence to the contrary, which I believe is something that should be taken into account here.
Edited by Edgar81539open Bad Grammar, Punctuation Issues, Trope Shoehorns, Edit Warring...
... and all of the above.
So, recently stumbled across Manga.Police In A Pod, a page made exclusively by one X-FALCONER
, a relatively new guy whose edits consist mostly of editing said page...
Grammar, spelling and punctuation issues are one thing:
- "Fuji have this with Kawaii with multiple characte note that she treat her nicely compared with how she treat others"...
- Jaywalking Will Ruin Your Life: downplayed and not jaywalking but in one case Kawaii interrogate a teen that stole a bike and made her confess the girl admitted that these incident will probably make her lose her scholarship in a university at Tokyo, but she is confident that she can go there through other means. — This is lifted wholesale from the page btw, I didn't change a single thing
- Yakuza: Minor nuisances in the manga. Seiji and Takeshi at one point get to a shouting match with them after a wakashu throws away a lit cigarette onto the street. — What does this have to do with the Japanese gang syndicate called the Yakuza again?
- Irony: While Kawaii just met Yamada and Minamoto through Fuji , is shown later they found her nicer and easier to get along than Fuji who is a Jerk With The Heart Of Gold. — How is this Irony? Also, yes, they didn't double-bracket the words "irony" so it's not bluelinked.
But there's also blatant Redlinked typos that the user neglected to fix (Big Sister Instict? Jerk With The Heart Of Gold? Abusive Mother?)
... Shoehorning Tropes that doesn't fit:
- Running Gag: During the anime Kawaii and running specifically her tendency to run and the monologues she has complaining about this, thanks to the anime adapting the early chapters where Kawaii had to run a lot — I don't think that's what Running Gag means?
- Cop Killer: While not a killer White Angel is a driver that Hit and Run Sakura an Officer of the station leaving her in a wheelchair for years he is later revealed to be Kimura a father who abandoned his family whose daughter is a cop in another prefecture, the reason why he was fixated on sakura was because she looked similar to her daughter but it wasn't intentional he just dozed off after he had too many all nighter. — The entry argues with itself, and is therefore a shoehorn. Also grammar in sentences.
- Dramatic Shattering: An apartment window is busted by Fuji with her issued baton when she and some officers were conducting a wellness check and the tenant wasn't answering the door (plus the tenant had a previous meeting with the police due to concerns that he's been drinking). — The trope Dramatic Shattering means "drops and breaks an object in shock". This entry is "Breaking A Glass Window With A Baton", which... isn't a trope that exists as far as I remember.
And an 18-bulleted-point Surprisingly Realistic Outcome entry with really, really bad shoehorns
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: One of the manga's main strengths with reader and critics is that Miko Yasu write with a lot of realism compared to other manga principally based on her own experience as a police officer.
- While everyone treat Kawai as The Ditz in the beginning, officer of others precints say that Kawaii actually is above average as a rookie, being someone who listen to her superiors advices and use them, follow orders and have generally a good will to work, is just that they compare her to Fuji who is The Ace.
- In a case of an Abusive Mother, who hurt her 3 year old child, instead of being a sadistic Child Hater, the woman was a teenage mom whose family kicked out and have her husband working aboard,and she was overstressed, after she found herself incredibly guilty of that, but still they took her daughter away from her, much to both sadness because they loved each other, Kawai felt incredibly guilty for this thinking that if she looked deeper on the case they would still be together, she and Kana outright admitted that Kid will probably hate Kawaii, but Kana admitted there was nothing she could do because she was just a grunt.
- Because they tend to be Hot-Blooded their superior dont really like Yamada and Minamoto, while they don't dislike them they outright said that they prefer Makitaka and Nasu who meanwhile doesn't have any great skill (Makitaka is outright said to be the weakest officer in all the station) they are dilligent and don't make dumb mistakes
- Just because someone passed Training from Hell doesn't mean they are going to become great athletes, Kawai passed the police academy training which according to the manga is capable of making men cry, but she doesnt show any Charles Atlas Superpower, actually there are a lot of times she is shown struggling in police work.
- Most officers spend their entire career with little to no experience in using their guns outside of target practice. If one is used to shoot a suspect, the officer/s's actions are to be scrutinized very carefully, especially since Japan has strict anti-gun laws.
- Because their work schedule, and Japan sexist tendencies toward male oriented jobs, is pretty common for policewoman to marry policemen until now all married (Ex)and current policewoman have been married to other officers.
- When officers are involved in strong traumatic incidents, they are often told to take time off or else they cannot function mentally in the field.
- Police officers, just like other first responders, don't have the luxury of having a social life or enjoy holidays because they need to be ready in case of an emergency or they need to work to ensure others can enjoy their holidays by covering their shift.
- Because of their past antics like breaking a car and losing his Badge, the inspectors were extremely vigilant to Minamoto and Yamada.
- When Kawaii got hit by a car but was fine nonetheless Fuji made her work until an ambulance come to check her, this was later revealed to be a facade she was way more affected than she showed with Minamoto having to console her later.
- In one chapter the main duo, had to deal with a lot of animal Jinx like subduing a Dog, making a cow move and deal with a monkey, like they explain they haven't being trained to this kind of stuff so they had a lot of trouble in this, in the cow case Seiji had to do it because he was raised by a police father in the countryside had experience with cows.
- Kana cuts corners and used inquiry to pass her training from the police academy and she is shorter than the minimum height required to be a cop in the first place, making her pretty bad when she need to do something physical.
Takeshi Yamada: [about Makitaka and Kana subding a large female suspect] Sgt. Minamoto, allow me to say something as their peer. Makitaka-san is the type of person you regret doing exercise with and Kana got through the academy solely through trickery. Their inability to do anything physical is laughable.- While Fuji may be The Ace, Yamada reveals she also had her struggles when she was rookie, like when a case had to be shut down for lack of evidence and she apologized endlessly to the victim or when the victim couldn't stand the investigation and decided to suspend the investigation.
- In most cop shows the one who hurt or kill an officer tend to be extremely dangerous criminals like Crime lords or Serial killers , in this case Kimura the criminal who runned over Sakura, was simply a man who was overworked and dozed off and because of his debts tended to lay low, also the only reason why he wasn´t caught was because of the rain all evidence was erased and he got rid of the truck the principal element Fuji used to investigate the case
- After seeing Sakura accident ,her instructor and superior Onigawara entered in a state of shock, this the bad weather, and her not drinking any liquids culminated on her suffering a miscarriage, after that she never went back to police work.
- Just like in Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Fuji explain that the only reason officers like her and Kawaii could work there was because older Policewomen like Yokoi or Onigawara trailblazed during a time where the police was more sexist, and made things easier to younger officers.
- Linked with above, policewomen have to work harder than his male peers so they don't hurt the image of all the policewoman.
- Officer need to have a crime before they can act, until then ,they can only watch or warn people.
- Later in the manga, it's revealed that Kawai distanced herself a little from her family. It turns out her family lives 2 hours away and because of her work schedule, she can't come to visit very often. She's the first police officer in her family and because of a mix of police confidentiality and Mai not wanting to worry them, Mai doesn't really talk about her job.
... which the discussion thread gave me the "OK" to delete after I did a consultation / analysis
...
(Cue Drumroll For War... Edit War)
... only for FALCONER to re-add the whole thing, wholesale (both of them!
), with his excuse amounting to "I disagree with the deletion reasons so I'm adding everything back without even bothering to correct the grammar issues
"
…given the cleanup thread disagrees with him, me re-deleting would constitute as an Edit War. We really don't want that to happen.
They also made Characters.Police In A Pod, which is the character page for the show, I guess they're a fan. But then you see shoehorns like this ( I haven't analyzed it thoroughly, that page is huge)
- Meaningful Name: Fuji is a reference to Mt. Fuji. — Isn't Fuji a super-common Japanese name?
- Meaningful Name: Kawai is cute. — Actually, "Kawai" is a Japanese word that means "Confluence". Also sounds like character gushing.
- Berserk Button: Temporarily after seeing a baby corpse, she got a button with people who downplay security measures specially with kids, a pep talk with Miyahara work this out. — I don't think that's what Berserk Button means? This entry is just "X freaks out after seeing a dead baby"...
- Fair Cop: In a more cute, than sexy way but Kawai is considered quite cute with even Minamoto (who see policewoman as apes) telling her that she is cute, once one of her classmate outright admitted than she is jealous of Kawaii boobs and figure. — "More cute than sexy" — wait, what?
- Brutal Honesty: a big part of the character specially in a Deadpan Snarker way — "X is this" violation, also grammar and lack of punctuations.
- Cool Big Sis: Sometime she gives this feeling with Kawai — "X is this" violation, also grammar and lack of punctuations.
- Fair Cop: She constantly gets compliments for her looks. — What?
There's also
- violation of
Repair, Don't Respond on Recap.The Owl House S 1 E 11 Senses And Insensitivity note since deleted by another user
- Natter
on Recap.What If S 1 E 7 What If Thor Were An Only Child note since deleted by another user
- more grammar stuff and borderline RDR
on Characters.Avatar The Last Airbender The Fire Nation Royal Family
- this edit
to Characters.Avatar The Last Airbender Other Characters and this edit to
Recap.The Simpsons S 21 E 13 The Color Yellow having similar grammar and capitalization issues as the Police Anime page linked above.
- violation of
EDIT: Apologies for the bolding, I know there are guys who consider this an eyesore. It's just, you know, for pointing stuff out
Edited by RobertTYLopenRats of NIMH example
There was an example on Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH that was removed a long time ago without an edit reason and I reinstated it:
- Interspecies Romance: Mrs. Frisby is a field mouse (which aren't proper mice at all, they're voles), but laboratory mice such as her husband are house mice. Although they have children, the two species aren't closely related enough to breed.
The reason why it was removed may have been that it wasn't portrayed as Interspecies Romance in the story itself, and most likely the author wasn't even aware they were different species. Would it still be legitimate to put it here, or would it be better under Artistic License – Biology?
openBrave Little Toaster Pronoun Conflict
Not long ago, there was a discussion about
the pronouns for the titular character of The Brave Little Toaster. The film itself uses he/him pronouns, while the director and voice actor refer to the toaster with she/her pronouns. The matter was brought to a vote and it was pretty much unanimously agreed
that he/him pronouns should be used.
Troperfind was one of the Tropers who advocated for she/her pronouns, necessitating the discussion to begin. After the consensus was reached, the pronouns on this
page were changed accordingly. However, Troperfind has changed pronouns to she/her, saying "The best thing to do for this situation is to be considerate for both argument, referring to Toaster y both male and female pronouns, so as to settle both sides of the argument."
Thing is, using both male and female pronouns was an option in the voting thread, but no one voted for it. This seems like a dismissal of consensus to push for the opposite, even if the intention was to be fair to both sides.
Edited by iamconstantineopenHow do you link to the important part of the page?
I've made this edit on the main page of Russian Reversal:
- T.S Eliot's "Choruses" has "Has the Church failed mankind, or has mankind failed the Church?" [1]
- T.S Eliot's "Choruses" has "Has the Church failed mankind, or has mankind failed the Church?" [1]
openI messed up an Image Pickin thread
I started an Image Pickin
thread but I accidently forgot to link the page at the top: It was for Pirates Of The Caribbean Actors. I don't know if this the place to point this out, but I would like to apologize for the trouble and ask that it be fixed or discarded. If I broke the rules, I would to report myself.
open Designated Hero in Civil War II Print Comic
Ah, Civil War II, the comic book that reignited the old discussions about who is the hero and who is the villain in Marvel's Civil War. I really want to figure out, once and for all, who is the real Designated Hero of the story.
- "Carol Danvers. When shown proof of how Ulysses' powers actually work, she ignores it and continues her campaign of fighting the future by arresting a woman with the only proof being his vision of her and an empty suitcase. She recruits Kamala to aid her in her venture and essentially tells her to deal with it when the poor girl is having completely major second-thoughts over the entire thing. Later on as she ramped up, several characters call her out on her increasingly totalitarian behavior. Magneto outright compares her to the Nazis after a few mishaps between her and the X-Man, causing her to compare Magneto (who, keep in mind, is a Holocaust survivor) to an internet troll invoking Godwin's Law. Notably, Carol seems to be repeating the same pitfalls that Tony went through in the original Civil War (whose side had a point but invalidated it by acting in a villainous manner), but exaggerated ten-fold. As trying to save people from attacks and crisis that would cause a huge loss of life (which Carol and the Ultimates had been doing and was Carol's initial plan for Ulysses) would be unquestionably a good thing, it comes off as Marvel deliberately trying to make her more villainous to add more moral ambiguity to avoid Tony being the clear-cut bad guy."
- "Tony Stark. After finding out about Ulysses' power, he instantly distrusts it for little to no reason, starting an argument with his friends over essentially nothing. He follows this by, when Ulysses's vision gets Rhodey killed, but successfully prevents the deaths that Thanos would have caused, attacking the Inhumans and kidnapping Ulysses, proceeding to begin experimenting on him to determine how his powers work in order to find any flaw to justify his irrational distrust of him. When he goes about recruiting people to his cause, he does so through bribery (such as trying to buy Sam Wilson's support by playing off of his financial troubles), among other issues. While Carol is Jumping Off the Slippery Slope, Tony seems to start the event being an unsympathetic asshole, even before Carol's extremism comes into play."
- "The Inhumans. At first, they are right to be angry that Tony kidnapped Ulysses. However, Medusa destroyed his company, took his money and ruined his reputation. Even worse, Triton and Maximus blew up his company tower because they felt that she didn't go far enough. When they were with the other heroes confronting Banner, Tony pointed out that Banner hasn't done anything, to which Medusa responded with "Yet." Add to the fact that they don't want to really help save the mutants from being killed off by their mists, and it's pretty hard to see them as heroic. Now it's debatable whether some of the writers themselves consider them heroes considering what Magneto asked Rachel Grey in Civil War II: X-Men #3: "Tell me... in the world you came from... your future... do you recall an Inhuman lifting a finger to help our people?" This instantly caused her to join Magneto. They had basically abandoned Carol when she turned to them for help after Miles went home to deal with the vision of himself killing Captain America."
Civil War II gives us Captain Marvel, following in the footsteps of Iron Man in the first Civil War and who went a little crazy with her methods while using a Inhuman precog, Ulysses, to combat crimes. She went around trying to arrest her allies and others for things that haven't happened yet, and ignored people when they tried to tell her that the precog wasn't really seeing the future, at least not with 100% accuracy. Having indirectly caused the deaths of War Machine and Bruce Banner, she grew more stubborn in her beliefs and went on to imprison an innocent woman, tried to arrest Miles for a crime he may not commit, and put Iron Man in coma when he opposed her. This was explained in Ultimates 2015 partly as having her Go Mad from the Revelation of the Marvel Universe's floating timeline thanks to Galactus showing her. While some fans still love the character, others are unsure that she should be the female face of Marvel.
- Several years on, thanks to a successful film and appearance in another, a number of negative consequences for Carol and a fair amount of self-hatred on her part, plus a general desire by Marvel to forget that Civil War II ever happened (unlike the first Civil War, which had extended consequences right up to and after Siege), which was helped by how it was a forgettable event to begin with, and Ulysses himself hasn't been seen since - means that it's simmered down to the occasional mention.
- Several years on, thanks to a successful film and appearance in another, a number of negative consequences for Carol and a fair amount of self-hatred on her part, plus a general desire by Marvel to forget that Civil War II ever happened (unlike the first Civil War, which had extended consequences right up to and after Siege), which was helped by how it was a forgettable event to begin with, and Ulysses himself hasn't been seen since - means that it's simmered down to the occasional mention."
The actions of either Tony or the Inhumans during Civil War II are not mentioned in the page, but they do have entires, albeit for different reasons.
"I guess we're ignoring the fact Tony kidnapped a man and tortured him, all to get those experiment results which are tainted as a result of said torture. And he assaulted a head of state to do it by tresspassing on their sovereign territory. But the Inhumans are jerks I guess, so they deserved it huh? Yeah, I have a bone to pick with the Inhumans vs X-Men entry too, as it ignores the fact the Inhumans are trying to find a cure for the X-Men, trying to keep them from being harmed by the cloud and the mutants do not explain that they're already out of time to find a cure and just attack them outright with no provocation. The entry even ignores how the crossover ends, with Medusa herself learning that the cloud is about to saturate the atmosphere and kill all mutants... and then she instantly kills the cloud herself because that's the only solution obviously, basically revealing this entire war could've been avoided if the X-Men just told the Inhumans the truth."
"But hey, better to find an easy person to blame in both cases, right? And both events do suck, a fact I won't argue, so who cares if we leave out other details that kinda show that this tropes more easily applies to the other side of the fighting. Frankly, I haven't heard one solid defense for what Carol should've done when Tony attacked her. And if we're using alt. Universes to justify the Mutants actions in Iv X, then fine! In another universe, as detailed in the lead up to Infinity Warps, Carol broke off her engagement with Tony to free Miles from his prison bubble thing... and took what appears to be a mortal blow from Tony's Carolbuster suit in the process."
"Tony. Was Trying. To Kill. Carol Danvers. Period. I find this continued attempt to blame Carol for putting the guy who ASSAULTED HER into a coma very "Victim Blaming" of its proponents. Like if a wife puts an abusive husband into a coma, suddenly she's a criminal too I guess? Next woman who knocks out her rapist and gives him brain damage, charge them with attempted murder, right? And sure, Tony didn't do anything nearly as bad as that... but he did commit Kidnapping, Torture and Terrorism in a short span of time. Yet he does not pay for a single one of his crimes and the comics community forgives him just as easily it seems."
"Tony deserves to be called what he is in the story, as the comic is clearly on his side and even ends with Carol throwing herself onto her sword in anguish over her mistakes while Tony's "death" is lamented as a tragedy. It's not, he attacked her, he got what was coming to him. He's the designated hero of CW 2, not Carol. Carol was presented as the misguided antagonist at best while Tony was allowed to run rough shod over her and scream on his soap box. She never got a chance to present her case! EVER! And we keep blaming her for things that other people did! It's ridiculous!"
"The entry should be switched around, the comic clearly sides with Tony Stark. By definition of trope, the author isn't trying to excuse Carol's actions, they are trying to excuse Tony. He suffers no real lasting consequences for his actions, while Carol has to repeatedly blame herself for things she didn't do! And the same goes for Iv X, as that comic is very clearly on the mutant's side. Neither entry fits the trope and is just someone complaining about characters not being perfect. And the implication that Carol should've let Tony punch her face into the pavement and not defend herself, while ignoring everything he did, SCREAMS sexist bias in my opinion."
"Those are my criticisms, feel free to discuss."
So, what do we do here? I'm perfectly aware that Designated Hero had a TRS clean-up thread
, but it was closed because people were using the trope simply to criticize heroes didn't like.
By the way, I already asked this question at Is this an example?
to get a proper consensus.
openRepeated Issues and Move?
Trivia.The Conversion Bureau The Chatoverse:
General Trivia
- Contrary to what "New Universe Three: The Friendship Virus" claims, men are not responsible for 98% of all violence and rape. This is a common misconception and an example of Common Knowledge.
- Also, the increase of oxytocin would increase nurturing... in anyone within your "group" according to nationalism. Enough of it increasing worldwide would cause such an up-spike in tribalism that about five wars would break out at once.
This was under Critical Research Failure until it was made a Disambiguation which was told to be cut as opposed to moved as too inflammatory
, Abbywabby moved it to Artistic License, which was cut
as AL is not supposed to be taken as real life fact which this story does, now Abbywabby moved it here citing "Since there is no consensus on which items exactly are appropriate, they should be listed here until a consensus on where else, if anywhere, is best. If it is agreed they do not fit anything in particular, they should probably be deleted or left here for lack of a better place."
I don't disagree that it should be mentioned if something it fits is found, but this seems inappropriate adding something that was twice deemed too contentious to keep and shoehorn if not outright inappropriate use of "General Trivia" (it make me question if it's worth having "General Trivia" if it's used to shoehorn in stuff that's not proper Tropes or Trivia entries). Thoughts?
Also from the page:
- Undermined By Reality: Chatoyance openly states that her version of Equestria, the Princesses, and the ponies is "more in line with Lauren Faust's original vision" than that of the show. However:
- This version of Celestia is basically the omnipotent god empress of Equestria despite Faust herself directly stating that Celestia is not actually a goddess.
- The show's pilot, written by Faust to set up their vision for the series, had Princess Luna become Nightmare Moon and bring about The Night That Never Ends, which Faust stated would have ultimately killed all life on the planet, out of jealousy. While Chatoyance handwaves other antagonistic ponies as descended from a ponified human, they portray Luna as an infallible Big Good without any acknowledgment of Nightmare Moon which would invalidate the point of their work to portray ponies as morally superior if one as great as Luna could fall and commit such evildoing.
Undermined By Reality was cut as now a disambiguation
. Would Informed Attribute (saying their work is in line with X but unsupported/contradicted in the actual work) be a valid replacement in this case?
openDDLC Edit War
On the Doki Doki Literature Club! page, this Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry was added by Tropers/Justmenoworries in November 2020.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Monika, for some. You're meant to feel sorry for her because she knows her world is artificial and desires something, anything real in her life. But a lot of players had a hard time feeling sympathy for a girl who would drive two of her friends to suicide and outright kill the third in cold blood, just to get some alone time with someone she barely even knows. Monika tries to justify this at first, stating that Natsuki, Sayori and Yuri are just programs, not self-aware like she is. However, that argument holds less and less water the more you think about it. Note While the girls never come to the same realization as Monika, save for Sayori who becomes full self-aware in both endings, they do always notice something's wrong when Monika messes with their programming. And even then, the fact remains that Monika viewed her three best friends as disposible, if it would just get her the attention of someone she was (supposedly) in love with.
Last September, Mummy Ga Ga deleted it with the edit reason, "Monika has a Heel Realization at the end though." Two months later Justmenoworries added the entry back exactly the same saying, "The fact that Monika has a Heel Realization at the end doesn't change what she did to the other girls and MC. A lot of fans still found her unsympathetic after said realization." For the entry itself, I'll run it through the U.U. thread to see if it sticks.

CAPS LOCK is listed at Self-Demonstrating Article and Just for Fun, along with SelfDemonstrating.Caps Lock, which is actually applicable. Should CAPS LOCK be removed from these?
Also do I understand correctly that since it's not at Definition-Only Pages it needs an example list as a Text Trope?