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openNRLEP violations
Epic Fail is listed as No Real Life Examples Please, but the Live-Action TV subpage has these two examples which strike me as Real Life examples:
- One of the funniest outtakes for Mystery Science Theater 3000 involved one of those. Joel had to come on the set and say one word. That word being "waffles." While he's eating waffles. In an episode where every host segment is about waffles. The camera starts rolling:
Joel: "...Pancakes. Oh, I blew it!"
- In-universe example, but just fortuitous in Real Life: Michael Richards was once reminiscing about how, on the set of Seinfeld, he performed an impromptu pratfall while walking through Jerry's door as part of his "Kramer" character. As Richards's feet flew out from under him, one of them went completely over his head, curled around the doorknob, and closed the door all by itself. Richards regretted that he would never be able to do that again.
In fact, I'm not even sure that the latter is an example at all. Candidates for removal?
openIndentation Problem Or Not?
I just got an indentation notifier I'm not sure is justified on YMMV.Rejected (a three-point line talking about a two-point line
), as the line itself wasn't changed by the editor who sent me the notifier.
Also the edit was made 10 years ago.
openSuper-sub trope relationships.
Bit of a weird one, this.
This is regarding a Raven Branwen Hypocrite entry on Characters.RWBY Anima.
Back in July 2021, gjjones initially removed it because the Hypocrite sub-trope Never My Fault was on her page. I added it back because the Never My Fault entry was a completely different example, and there was no sub-trope detailing the Hypocrite entry. They then changed it to Straw Hypocrite, so I started a discussion on the discussion page about whether that was an appropriate move (a straw hypocrite usually doesn't believe the argument they're making, which isn't the case here). They added the entry back to Hypocrite themselves.
They've just removed the entry on the grounds that the sub-tropes Never My Fault and Secretly Selfish are on the page. But, as per last time, these sub-trope entries are about different examples to the Hypocrite one.
So, this guideline about not allowing the super-trope if sub-tropes are on the page. It's about the same examples, isn't it? If Example A for Character Y is under a sub-trope and Example B fits better under the super-trope and not any sub-trope, is it okay to have the super-trope on the same page for Example B? And, if Example A fits better under a sub-trope, you shouldn't have it listed under the super-trope as well. That's what I thought the guideline was, at any rate. What's the right thing to do here about this entry? Is there a sub/super trope thread to ask about this?
- Hypocrite: Raven has a problematic view of family responsibilities. She feels Qrow's abandonment of the Branwen tribe is turning his back on family, but he feels she has no business lecturing him when she abandoned Taiyang and Yang. Qrow tells Yang Raven only contacts him when she wants him; once Yang seeks out Raven so she can take her to Qrow and Ruby, Raven complains about family only visiting when they need something.
openAdult Swim's Yule Log Knight of Cerebus Film
So, I just recently watched Adult Swim Yule Log and I was wondering if I should add that the Yule Log itself became the Knight of Cerebus for the film, since even though the film started off with Pleatherface and his mother murdering a woman and hiding in the log cabin, the film took a darker turn when the Yule Log comes to life and starts murdering people.
openRole Ending Misdemeanor question
Hello. While I'm trying to trim down some entries on the RoleEndingMisdemeanor.Sports pages (edit history is here
), I'm concerned about the following entry, due to its Wall of Text, Example Indentation and Natter issues:
- On November 19, 2004, the infamous Malice at The Palace of Auburn Hills
incident occurred when Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest fouled Detroit Pistons center Ben Wallace very hard. Wallace took exception to the foul and punched Artest, which led to an on-court altercation (which are not uncommon in the NBA, and depending on the severity of it, usually lead to either one or multiple-game suspensions). That fight was soon broken up and while Artest was lying on the scorer's table to cool off, he was suddenly struck with a cup of Diet Coke by a fan named John Green (who was ultimately banned from attending Pistons home games for life alongside Charlie Haddad, Alvin Shackleford, William Paulson, John Ackerman, Bryant Jackson, and Ben Wallace's brother, David Wallace). Artest charged into the stands and attacked another fan named Michael Ryan (who ultimately was spared from the same banned fate despite looking like a prominent figure at the time), who Artest thought attacked him at first. The incident quickly grew out of control as multiple players from both teams (such as Rasheed Wallace (no relation to Ben Wallace), Richard Hamilton, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal), as well as former Pistons player Rick Mahorn (who was the team's radio analyst at the time) charged into the stands and began to fight off the fans. The game was called with 45.9 seconds to go (being the only NBA game to be called off early while still having time on the clock), with the Pacers getting credited with the win (they were leading by 15 points when the original incident occurred, meaning a comeback by Detroit was highly improbable anyway). Unsurprisingly, the incident gave the NBA a huge black eye. Nine players were suspended for a total of 146 games, with Artest justifiably being hit the hardest: Ron was suspended from the remainder of that season (86 games: 73 in the regular season and 13 in the playoffs). Ben Wallace, for his part, was suspended for six games, while other players from both teams (including Artest) were hit with suspensions and legal ramifications as well, such as fines, probation, and anger management classes. Some of the other biggest suspensions relating to that event included Pacers players Stephen Jackson getting 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal originally getting 25 games before appealing it down to 15 games. As of 2023, this incident leaves a very bitter taste in the mouths of Pacers fans, as it costed star player Reggie Millernote Who was a participant in the incident, but not in the game itself because of injury; he was suspended for one game. his last chance at a title, as he retired after that season. What makes it especially bitter for Pacers fans was that they were knocked out of the Playoffs that season by the Pistons in the semifinals.
- Over two years later, a fight that was compared to the infamous Malice at The Palace of Auburn Hills (with some individuals thinking it was worse at the time) occurred at the Madison Square Garden on December 16, 2006. Near the end of that day's game, New York Knicks guard Mardy Collins committed a flagrant two foul (which leads to an ejection of the player that caused what's considered intentional harm against another player, as well as two free-throws and possession of the ball for the team that had the player harmed at the time) on Denver Nuggets guard J.R. Smith, which caused both teams' line-ups that were playing by that time (including Nuggets star forward Carmelo Anthony) to fight against each other on both sides of the court, to the point where they even reached the stands at one point. Everyone who participated in the fight was ejected from the game and replaced with different players from both teams throughout the last minute and fifteen seconds left in the game. In the end, seven players from both teams were suspended for a total of 47 games and lost wages of $1.2 million. However, the three biggest perpetrators of the event (Anthony, Smith, and the Knicks' Nate Robinson) were the only players to get suspensions any longer than six games (which was what Collins got for instigating the event in the first place) due to them utilizing actions that made the event much worse than what it probably should have been, with Robinson and Smith both getting 10 games and Carmelo losing 15 games. Carmelo Anthony later suggested the reason his suspension was the longest was because commissioner David Stern wanted to set an example for the rest of the NBA to not cause more brawls like this to go down ever again.
I tried separating and re-alphabetizing the two entries, but they were merged back. Since I don't want to get involved in an Edit War, any thoughts on what to do here?
Edited by gjjonesopenLong Period EditWar on Character page for Katsuki Bakugo that I unknowingly contributed to.
On March 5th, 2022
, Million Hypotheses removed the trope The Not-Love Interest from My Hero Academia - Katsuki Bakugo with no edit reason.
- The Not-Love Interest: For Midoriya. Bakugo is one of Midoriya's primary motivators and sources of inspiration, and saving or helping him has been Midoriya's primary motivation in four arcs,note The Introduction, Final Exams, Forest Training Camp, and Hideout Raid Arcs as well as the reason behind their second fight. Midoriya even reacts with goofy smiles when Bakugo praises him after their second fight and worries about him during the Joint Training Arc and both refer to each other by childish nicknames. Insulting Bakugo to Midoriya's face is a good way to make Midoriya fly off the handle, and due to Midoriya's Psychoactive Powers is extremely dangerous.
On August 13th, 2022
, Rebel Falcon (Me) removed the entry, unknowingly for the second time, citing trope misuse with the following edit reason.
On October 2nd, 2022
, spaceforests restored the entry again, which has since remained untouched aside from the following addition to the entry.
Once again, I had no idea I was perpetuating an Edit War, and originally came to ATT thinking spaceforests had started an Edit War by restoring the entry after I removed it, only to learn about the prior removal and addition beforehand.
Regardless though, I do feel the entry itself is trope misuse, as none of the details cited are traits exclusive to the love interest, when one of the parameters of the trope is "This trope often represents a Subversion of one or more Love Interest tropes, or tropes that normally lead to a character becoming a Love Interest, such as Rescue Romance.", and multiple traits listed are just traits Izuku Midoriya has as a character overall, especially since he does have traits exclusive to his canonical love interest, Ochako Uraraka, that he doesn't share with anyone else, like their Twice Shy behavior, or being able to confide in one another in a way they can't do with anyone else like in their shared desire to save villains but thinking it makes them weird to everyone else.
...And I know it's begging, but please don't suspend me for this! I swear to God that I didn't know it was an already existing Edit War back when I removed it, and now that I do know I openly declare I would have never removed it had I known without going to ATT first! I can even offer evidence I was just focusing on the trope misuse! I had brought it up on the forum
when someone accused me of removing it out of spite, and was told by a mod then and there to keep it to ATT.
openArticles that allow ZCEs
Hello! I was curious if there was an index for pages that allowed Zero Context Examples on the respective trope pages. I saw that they are allowed on the page All-CGI Cartoon because it's self explanatory, but I was wondering if there were any others. Also, does this mean that they are allowed in general when citing these tropes, or are they only allowed on the respective pages? From what I understand, putting All-CGI Cartoon without any example context in the tropes section of a work is not allowed, but citing the work on the trope page is. Thanks in advance!
open Potential Complaining Agenda
Ok, I hope I'm not making a mountain out of a molehill here since I'm not sure if this is serious enough to warrant a report, but over the past week on ScrappyMechanic.Genshin Impact (starting with this edit
), I noticed that Konoe Jerry has been making constant edits on the banner entry to talk about certain characters getting shafted for reruns, with particular mention going to Eula, whom they seem to have a personal attachment for. Initially I didn't find this a big deal at first, but overtime, their followup edits on the entry to put more emphasis on Eula have become more pronounced, with their most recent edit's edit reason
("And here I am, still waiting for Eula") making it obvious that they have some type of complaint agenda going on which appears to be motivated by saltiness.
Look, I get they're frustrated that Eula didn't get a rerun for so long (that's something all Genshin fans, myself included, experience), but I'm concerned that they'll continue using the page to vent about it until the time when (or if) she gets one, and it may get out of hand.
Edited by VintageEmmaopen No Title
Do we have something for reasoning that is clearly faulty, but not entirely wrong? This is under Characters.Hololive Holostars English:
Insane Troll Logic: His prime reasoning of why he can't be a vampire is because he's afraid of vampires but he isn't afraid of looking at himself.
Which I feel doesn't fit ITL because the reasoning is correct, the problem is that it relies on dubious assumptions (most obviously, that he would recognise a vampire by sight alone).
open Illiteracy Communist
There's a Darth Wiki page called Illiteracy Communist that is basically a sign-up page for tropers who proudly identify as Grammar Nazis, with many tropers imitating stereotypical Nazis in their entries. I didn't see any hate speech towards any particular minority groups, and the page was created in 2009 when jokingly comparing oneself to Nazis was likely seen as more acceptable, but in this day and age it comes off as incredibly tone-deaf. I'm thinking something should be done about the page, such as a cut or at least a clean-up, but I'm wondering what other tropers think.
Edited by ArgoTheBlankopenNon-YMMV tropes in YMMV pages Literature
YMMV.Xeelee Sequence has three objective tropes in its page, none of them are audience reaction or proper YMMV items.
- Always a Bigger Fish: The Transcendence would be considered as most franchises' god-like race and even they pale in comparison to the Xeelee, who themselves are losing against the Photino Birds. And even these two near-omnipotents are mere insects to the Monads. This trope also applies to out of universe as well, for the Xeelee series is often considered as the gold-standard of overpowered franchises that eclipses other 'traditionally powerful Sci-Fi franchises' such as Warhammer 40,000, The Culture, Ancient Halo and Gurren Lagann by several orders of magnitude. In fact, the amount of franchises that could stalemate or surpass the Sequence in scale could be counted on one hand.
- Cool Of Rule: Part of the reason the Sequence is so awesome is that all of the science is explained, and not just in a Hand Wave.
- Eviler than Thou: The Sequence is pretty infamous especially in versus forums for how atrociously dark and deprave it can get; often making Warhammer 40,000 look extremely PG and tame in comparison.
- Retcon: There's some inconsistencies across the series, mainly between the earlier novels and the Destiny's Children books. Some of it is simply the result of a lot more light being shed on the period between the fall of the Qax and the end of Ring, but (for example) the fact that Xeelee-style FTL drives function as time machines, including the ability to create paradoxes is only revealed in Exultant, when one would have expected it to be mentioned earlier.
While the Retcon and Cool Of Rule entry can be moved to Xeelee Sequence (although it seems like Cool Of Rule is starved of wicks), the rest look like shoehorns to compare with characters and factions from other works, not with characters and factions in the work itself. With that in mind, would it be alright to move Retcon to the main work page and to delete the rest?
openCharacter Perception Evolution questions?
Questions about these from Character Perception Evolution:
- Star Wars: The Prequel Trilogy's take on Anakin Skywalker was widely derided along with the prequels themselves on release for being a whiny, selfish brat whose turn to evil failed to be sympathetic and who ruined the image of Darth Vader. With time the detractors softened, claiming that Anakin's actor Hayden Christensen, for whatever faults may have lied in his acting direction, still gave a phenomenal performance and created a modern Tragic Hero. The more favorable opinion strengthened with the release of the Sequel Trilogy, where Anakin's grandson Kylo Ren attempted to fix something that wasn't broken and came out a confusing mess thanks to the constant script changes caused by the Sequel Trilogy's Troubled Production, basically receiving all the criticisms that were once leveled at Anakin save for the acting one. His portrayal in Star Wars: The Clone Wars, which was seen to mesh better with the heroic image Obi-Wan had of him in the Original Trilogy, also helped in endearing him to a newer audience. When Hayden returned to the role in Obi-Wan Kenobi, his performance was widely praised.
The bolded part was removed citing "The point about his portrayal in the animated series is closer to Rescued from the Scrappy Heap." But prior ATT
agreed with me that Rescued can still count it it caused their pre-recused material to retroactively be judged more favorably. So permission to add it back modifying to fit this?
- My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic: Princess Luna only briefly appeared in the Season 1 premiere after being de-corrupted from her stint as Nightmare Moon. She was popular with the fans despite her limited personality and dialogue, and Fanon portraying her as The Woobie and a Shrinking Violet quickly caught on as the accepted interpretation. Then the Season 2 episode "Luna Eclipsed" gave Luna her first major role... and revealed she was a Large Ham. Fans vastly preferred this canon personality and the "Woona" fanon was quickly abandoned.
This seems misuse as every other CPE example is not about their fanon, but their popularity (be it love, hate, Love to Hate, vilify, or whitewash). And later martial may have changed how Luna is seen in fanon/overall but I don't believe it changed how she's seen in her Season 1 portrayal itself (less than a minute of screentime, just two lines, extreme Early Installment Character-Design Difference) Is evolving fanon separate enough to warrant cutting this a it's not her popularity that changed?
openIs it possible to create a series on TV Tropes?
I was wondering if someone can make a series on TV Tropes itself. What I mean is: not a work page about a pre-created series, but an actual series created on TV Tropes. I saw in the How to Create a Work Page... page that tropers can trope even things that don't exist (yet) in a Just for Fun page, like the TV Tropes: The Webcomic page. So how about creating an actual series using TV Tropes as a medium?
open Large Ham and Milikng the Giant Cow
Is Milking the Giant Cow a necessary part of Large Ham trope? Page itself says that, for example, shouting at the top of the lungs isn't, and any ' 'boisterous' ' expression of character's emotion including intense gesticulation by this logic would be too. Cold Ham trope and some examples imply that too. But Large Ham trope page in the part where it is discussed says something like "and Milking the Giant Cow to no small degree"... So i'm confused. What's the actual truth?
Note:I've already made this question and nobode replied.
openAwesomeMusic.AwesomeMusic
Why does this redirect exist? As far as I can tell from related pages and a bit of changing myself, it's barely used and seems really redundant when compared to a massive number of articles that use SugarWiki.Awesome Music instead. Should this get cut and links changed?
openRepeated "They Wasted" misuse
YMMV.Pokemon Scarlet And Violet (again)
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The idea of Paradox Pokémon was praised by many, except for the Future Pokémon. Many think that having them all as robotic or mechanical versions of their present-day counterparts is rather uncreative as they're very identical in appearance. Iron Thorns, Jugulis, and Leaves are commonly cited offenders. Compare this to Ancient Pokémon who were more well-received due to being based on a wider variety of prehistoric creatures. Miraidon itself was one of the few exceptions for looking completely different from Cyclizar and Koraidon while also being very expressive in its own right.
This is misuse as TWAPGP is unused plots not poorly used, which this is as the "plot", the Future Pokémon designs (also character designs seem shoehorns) being seen as untrusting/lazy compared to the Ancient Pokémon are. (Granted Miraidon avoiding these problem is the best argument I've seen for something about it being underused, but this still seems more like poor use, not unused.)
I've previously cut it
from They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character for the same issue (about lack of screentime not poorly received designs). This is the third, maybe forth, time this has been added under "They Wasted" entries.
Permission to remove? Anything this issue might fit?

So, in the "The Reason You Suck" Speech page, specifically the section for crossover fanfics, there are two fics that confuse me: Fire & Ice, a crossover between Frozen and The Hobbit, and The Transformers My Little Pony Crossover 2, a crossover between... well, you know. Now, if you look at the examples each fic gives, you'll notice that both speeches are practically the same thing, even ending on the whole "You will die for wasting my time". Now, the thing that confuses me is that, whereas the MLP/Transformers fic has a link to the fic itself, Fire & Ice doesn't, so I have no idea to confirm whether or not it exists.