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openEditing Etiquette for Large-Scale Edits Literature
Having recently caught up to the English release of a particular Light Novel, I went to its Tv Tropes page and noticed it was quite lacking, and figured I'd help fill it out myself as the series isn't very popular.
However, rather than make edits in pieces I decided to make a copy of the latest version of the main page and work on it over time little by little with google docs; automatically saved, backed up and easier to keep track of changes or notes that way.
The question being, when I finish at some point and start moving the changes over to the main page, would it be preferable to do so in batches with appropriate Editing Reasons? I fear if I just slapped the revamped main page edits into the site at once, a mod could think I'm messing around and I definitely don't want to give that impression.
I'm going to take a few days at minimum on this little project anyway.
open Weirdly off-topic poster.
We're having a bit of an issue over on Complete Monster cleanup thread with a troper Molokai198
whose umh really disruptive and off-topic with some offputting comments.
- This one was a very strange comment arguing about whether infecting people with HIV
is horrible?
- Their was this weird time they just went off-topic to ask about the contents of an article
about Purdue and the Opoid crisis.
- Now we've gotten this post
which featured this shockingly bad statement.
This is just both incoherent and offensive.
He also doesn't vote On anything so much as the questions.
Like the fact this has happened three separate times.
Edited by MacronNotesopenMultiple issues
mattmcc appears to have multiple issues with adding ZCE entries, tropeslashing and some weird use of spoiler tagging, including sometimes spoiler tagging the trope name itself and placing spoiler tags into descriptions above the trope lists. Examples of all these can be seen on Characters.RWBY Blake Belladonna dated the 26th March 2023. When I tried to clean up some of this (such as removing the tropeslashing), they added it back, so edit warred as well. Other tropers have cleaned up some of this, but the tropeslashing is still on the page — can I go ahead and remove that?
Edited to add: they seem to have issues on other pages as well, such as removing commented out tags on WebAnimation.Murder Drones page (8th April 2023) without adding any context to stop the entries from being ZCE or lacking citation references.
Edited by WyldchyldopenPossible Singlehanded Decision?
So I was reading a page, and came across a Take That Us link, which I remember three days ago used to redirect to Self-Deprecation.
But apparently, prettycoolguy changed it into a disambiguation link
.
Was this talked about anywhere? I didn't see any discussion about it, and the edit reason makes me believe they decided this entirely on their own.
Edited by Steven-KeysopenHow to approach adressing a problematic aspect of this work(Little Witch Nobeta) Videogame
Considering addressing the Little devs offical Twitter provocative posts but not sure how to approach it given the account contains explicit posts over the protagonist and bosses.
Mainly because it's worth discussing since the game it's self is rather tame, outisde a few questionable outifts, and takes its self seriously but the offical twitter accounts post brazenly erotic and suggestive posts from time to time enough that it's rather noticeably jarring to compare the two.
Note this is an issue mainly because of this site's stance on "pedobait"
Though on a more minor not sure what tag to use for a "sexual advertisement tame work" kind of thing.
open Requesting Edit Revert... On Myself.
I copy-pasted a version of the page I edited in another tab, but hit paste too many times and made a mess.
openMediation needed
@Imjustme and I have a conflict that we need some third-party mediation on. We tried talking it out, but we quite simply disagree and talking about it didn't make us agree more. (We agree on the mediation bit, though XD)
Background: In Interview with the Vampire (2022), there's an Age Lift: in the book Claudia was turned into a vampire when she was 5, and thus immortalized as that age. In the show this is aged up to 14, and then played by 18-at-the-time Bailey Bass.
I want to add a few lines talking about the ways that this Age Lift does and doesn't work. Imjustme thinks that what I'm saying is subjective and should be on YMMV. I think it's fairly objective.
My side: While I think the Age Lift was a good logistical decision for all the Analysis.Dawson Casting reasons, I think it also creates some issues because Claudia's youth is a key plot point. I want to add a few lines to the page talking about that.
Occasionally the script claims Claudia is not just 14, but specifically prepubescent:
Dawson Casting works (to the extent that it does work) because teens grow up at different rates. There's more than one stage a young teen could plausibility be at. A 14-year-old might be pubescent, or postpubescent, or maybe (albeit uncommonly) prepubescent. It depends on the person. When the dialogue says Claudia is supposedly prepubescent, that wiggle room is lost.
I think Bailey Bass is reasonably believable as a postpubescent 14-year-old, but not as prepubescent. The discrepancy between actor and dialogue creates what I think can reasonably be termed an Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole.
Imjustme thinks this is subjective and should be on YMMV. I disagree; I think saying virtually no 18-year-old can pass as prepubescent is an objective, grounded thing to say.
@Imjustme, your turn, explain your side.
Edited by EievieopenPossible edit war - Creator/JKRowling
This one might be a borderline case in terms of the edit itself, but in context it seems worth flagging.
Back in March, following guidance from GastonRabbit, the intro paragraph on J. K. Rowling regarding Rowling's views on trans rights was cut back to a short summary
that tried to keep things factual and avoided weasel words or emotive language. This was agreed via the ROCEJ thread.
A comment was later added advising tropers to check with the thread before making unilateral changes on this.
On April 9th, PatTron made two changes
to that part of the intro - adding a reference to "massive controversy" and changing the "racist tropes" reference to "questionable tropes".
An 'Ignored Comment' notifier was sent, but the view on the thread was that folk were comfortable keeping 'questionable' phrasing. I removed the "massive controversy" line and reverted to the original wording for that sentence, though.
(The thread was very quiet at the time and there was no consensus/comment on that aspect - so reverting to the last version that did have consensus seemed safe)
Today PatTron has added
the "massive controversy" phrasing back into a different sentence within the same para, this time with edit reason "Had to include the word "controversy" elsewhere in the paragraph".
Again, there's been no engagement with the ROCEJ thread, and I've not seen any reply on the notifier message.
Edited by Mrph1open Is This An Instance Of "Blind Idiot Translation" Or "Translation Train Wreck"?
So, I have an absolutely hilarious instance of mistranslation and I'm not sure if it's a "Blind Idiot" Translation or a Translation Train Wreck.
This hilarious mistranslation comes from two facts: 1. The German dub of SpongeBob SquarePants renamed Squidward to "Thaddäus Tentakel", and 2. Google Translate's neural network-based translation software has a tendency to pick up patterns in language... even when it really shouldn't. End result: Any instance of the name "Thaddäus" has decent chance of being translated as "Squidward". (See for yourself
with Thaddius Vent).
So is this a "Blind Idiot" Translation, Translation Train Wreck, or something else?
Edited by sRAMrelevratopenSalvagedStory or ImprovedSecondAttempt?
These are under ImprovedSecondAttempt.Star Wars but under Salvaged Story under YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker:
- Unlike the prior films where Rey, Finn, and Poe were never together as a group and spent most of The Last Jedi in separate plotlines, they're now a Power Trio and spend much of their screen-time together.
- Finn's goofiness has been toned down to oblivion and he instead makes for a rather good Supporting Leader in the climax.
- Lando is finally added to the new trilogy, after many fans wondering where he was and many believing he was to be in The Last Jedi. He's shown playing a rather important part as well, allowing him to shine in his own right.
- C-3PO and R2-D2 get more screen time and importance compared to the previous films, where they were Demoted to Extra.
- Audiences had mixed responses to Luke's cynicism and depression in The Last Jedi. In this film, Luke's Force Ghost appears to say he was wrong to cut himself off from the galaxy while convincing her not to do the same, acts more light-hearted, and has made peace with his past mistakes. While his final moments in The Last Jedi certainly suggests this, The Rise of Skywalker spells it out and has Luke interact with Rey with this mindset.
- The climax of the previous film had the Resistance's distress calls from the surface of Crait be ignored, noting outright, "They've heard us, but no one's coming." That, combined with just how quickly and easily the galaxy had fallen under First Order control, made it look like the galaxy actively supported the First Order or at the very least were apathetic, undermining the Resistance's whole reason for existing. The Rise of Skywalker reveals that the Resistance's distress calls were being jammed after all, and has Lando go get help from a wide array of allies who come in as The Cavalry in the final battle.
- The Digital Head Swap of Carrie Fisher's face in the flashback of Luke training Leia is less visibly jarring than the same treatment in Rogue One, helped by the nighttime setting and using lightsabers as light sources rather than Rogue One's direct white lighting. After the film premiered, audiences learned that Leia's body double was Fisher's daughter, Billie Lourd.
- The movie reveals that Luke gave Leia basic Jedi training. Expanded universe novels were vague about the extent of her lessons with him, and the prior films didn't explain if she acted on instinct or training when she used the Force to rescue herself from floating in space.
- General Hux's Villain Decay and Butt-Monkey treatment in The Last Jedi leads to him being replaced with General Enric Pryde to take over his role and provide a more credible, non-goofy foe.
- It took 42 out-of-universe years, but Chewbacca finally receives a medal onscreen when Maz gives him Han's as a memento of his deceased friends.
- Turning Rey into Palpatine's granddaughter addresses complaints about why she was so naturally gifted with the Force in The Force Awakens.
- After The Force Awakens, some viewers complained that Rey was an Invincible Hero when she defeated the injured and emotionally unstable Kylo Ren despite his years of training with the Force and experience with lightsaber combat. In this film's final lightsaber duel, a healthy Kylo eventually gains the upper hand and is about to kill Rey when Leia intervenes Just in Time.
- After complaints about Kylo's lightsaber and combat prowess, this film's opening scene shows him as an unstoppable badass tearing through cultists while utilizing the crossguard blades.
- The novelization validates people who believe Rey and Ben's story arc wasn't about romance by describing their kiss in emotionally heightened but non-romantic terms.
- After the lightspeed ram in the previous movie, many fans wondered why such a destructive tactic wasn't commonly used, especially considering Lightspeed travel has existed for thousands of years in-universe and that there was a conflict in which one side was mostly composed of expendable troops just 50 years prior. In this movie, Poe comments that it is a risky manouver with "one-in-a million" chance, explaining that it is not a reliable tactic, hence it is not used unless as a desperate last resort.
Salvaged Story requires it be in-continuity and directly follow up the original storyline it's fixing. Improved Second Attempt I believe only applies to adaptations/separate continuities that do it better, but it seems like it's using separate stories in the same continuity as examples. A lot of this seems to be just moving the Author's Saving Throw (which now require official confirmation) examples to Improved Second Attempt.
Before I move/remove the Improved Second Attempt examples that fit Salvaged Story better, what is the line/limit for what fits ISA (adaptations only or just separate stories or non narrative fixes)? Anything else to do?
openTrope entry refers to "trope image"
Over at Trivia.Cobra Verde (courtesy link to page history
), the lone entry on the page, for Hostility on the Set, was originally written on 3 January by Anicomicgeek and opened with "The trope picture came from this film" (the page image for Hostility on the Set shows Klaus Kinski holding a machete to Werner Herzog's neck).
I re-wrote the entry on 15 January to correct a factual inaccuracy (as originally written, the entry claimed Kinski is trying to strangle Herzog) and remove the reference to the trope image, since Image Pickin' changes or removes such images on a regular basis.
On 6 February, Anicomicgeek changed the entry again by changing "A widely circulated photo shows..." to "The trope picture is, in fact, a widely circulated photo shows...", making the entry grammatically incorrect, adding Word Cruft ("in fact"), and once again violating the rule against mentioning page images in trope entries.
So no Edit War has taken place, but I wanted to be sure I wouldn't be straying into that territory myself by undoing this edit, since I wrote the previous version. And is there an appropriate notifier to send for this?
openTroper adding back potholes to an indice
When checking the wicks for A Date with Rosie Palms (which was recently renamed to This Index Touches Itself), I noticed that a lot of the meaningless 'masturbation exists' type of potholes to it that I'd removed have been readded by Fatter Queens, just changed to the new name. This seems to run counter to the point of turning A Date with Rosie Palms into an index in the first place; is this allowed?
Edited by OrbitingopenCharacter is unmentioned and doesn't appear, yet has folder
This is about the character of Daeron Targaryen, located on Characters.House Of The Dragon Greens. He hasn't appeared in S1, isn't mentioned at all beyond a vague allusion, and was retroactively mentioned in the supplementary website only after the first season ended. Yet he has a folder that's been added/removed a couple of timesnote Counting the initial location of the fam at Characters.House Of The Dragon House Targaryen.
This is his The Ghost entry, which seems to be straining to justify the folder's existence:
- The Ghost: Daeron doesn't appear on-screen in Season 1 and most references to him were removed - except for one brief reference in the Season 1 finale when Daemon states that the Greens have four dragons (Daeron's dragon Tessarion being the fourth). The official HBO website's family tree was updated to include him after the Season 1 finale. Both Ryan Condal and George R.R. Martin himself confirmed in interviews that he exists in the TV continuity and will appear in Season 2: the explanation is that, as in the books, at the time period corresponding to the end of Season 1 he's away in Oldtown squiring for his Hightower cousins, so he wasn't part of the King's Landing storyline. They also avoided having anyone state exactly how many children Alicent has (such as "all three of my children" etc.) - compare this to how Game of Thrones Season 2 self-consciously avoided saying "Stannis has no children", but said "Stannis has no sons", to later introduce that he does have a daughter.
Season 2 of House of the Dragon is, however, publicly still in the writing stage and plans could very well change. Remove this and leave a note saying not to add it back until he actually shows up?
openEdit war on Awesome.TheSuperMarioBrosMovie
Tropers.Blue Sun Studios modified this example to have spoiler markup to the page despite the notice that moments pages are Spoilers Off. Link
- A villainous example as Bowser's more stalwart and gung-ho koopa soldier steps out of the fiery remains of his vehicle and reveals himself to be the blue shell! He quickly takes himself out like the item proper, but this koopa was so unafraid of death that he immediately resorted to his life-ending blue shell tackle+explosion combo without a second thought to get one last shot at killing Mario.
Tropers.King Clark removed the spoiler markup only for Tropers.Blue Sun Studios to put at all back. Link
.
Add > Delete> Re-add constitutes an Edit War...
openTroper with ROCEJ / possible agenda-based edits on JK Rowling pages
Troper nargleinfestation (joined in Jan 2023, three pages of edits) has rewritten Creator.JK Rowling's intro today، cutting most of the ROCEJ thread's agreed phrasing re her trans rights stance, as well as the intro's reference to some of the problematic/racist tropes identified in her work.
Previous version, as agreed on the ROCEJ thread:
New version:
The page has a ROCEJ conment, which didn't say tropers must consult the thread, but cautioned against significant unilateral edits.
The Write What You Know example on the page was also amended to remove direct mention of Rowling's views on trans rights.
This intro change has now been reverted and a notifier has been sent.
A couple of hours after the notifier they also added lengthy Common Knowledge examples to YMMV.The Ink Black Heart and YMMV.Troubled Blood which also read a little defensive about Rowling.
The view on the ROCEJ thread was that this should be flagged here, so bringing it to ATT as recommended.
Edited by Mrph1

Quotes.Could Have Avoided This Plot
Ohvist first added the Suicide Squad quote. I deleted them as "Could Have Avoided This!" Plot is about in-universe characters acknowledging such (I believe I recall asking and being told reviewers doing it in their shows is misuse). Ohvist later added it back. Later Hotaru3 added the NIMH 2 quote. IchigoMontoya deleted both without edit reason. Hotaru3 added both back.
Besides the apparent edit warring, is this misuse if it's out of universe reviewers stating such even within their own shows universe?