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openTroping works made by family members
I know that Auto-Erotic Troping, troping your own works, is disliked, and YMMV for such is outright forbidden, but what about troping and adding YMMV for works made by family members? For example, making a work page for a now-discontinued webcomic my brother made. I probably can't reference anything he told me personally that he never wrote anywhere, but the comic itself should be fair game, right?
Edited by KingofNightmaresopenBorked note markup
On Fanfic.Medicated, one of the notes in the first Entertainingly Wrong bullet doesn't work, but it wasn't always this way, and it looks normal when I copy it here:
- The Plantars try to study Anne's human form to discover what species she is. They correctly deduce that she's a mammal, but most of their other conclusions are just slightly off, though still based on logical evidence. Since she's warm-blooded, they think she's native to colder climatesnote Humans live all over the planet, but thrive in temperate climate, and are native to sub-saharan Africa. Anne herself is from southern California, that she's arboreal due to her natural climbing skillsnote Humans are not arboreal, but primates usually are, so it wasn't too far off, and that she's primarily a herbivore since she prefers fruits to insects.note Humans are omnivores that can survive on any diet, fruit is simply more easily digestible than insects
openScrappy misuse(?)
- The Scrappy: This show's incarnation of Velma is not only the most hated incarnation of the character but also one of, if not the most hated character in the Scooby Doo franchise by being a self righteous, grating, hypocritical, petty, and cruel Designated Hero with no redeeming qualities.
While the characters is widely hated by Scooby-Doo fans, I believe this is misuse as Scrappy must be hated by fans of the specific work and is about consistently hated characters not hated versions of otherwise popular ones. (Hence the Titans of Teen Titans Go! not counting despite the show getting similar backlash.)
If this Velma was hated by those who otherwise liked the show, I'd say she counts. But while I've seen implications of such, the show is such a negativity sink I can't tell for sure and am leaning to "hated by non-fans of the work" misuse.
I asked Scrappy Cleanup
but got nothing. Prior discussion on the matter was unclear given the version of characters grey area. The Scooby Doo thread
was also unsure, not saying if her haters otherwise like the show and saying this was more a definitional question than popularity one.
Thoughts on the matter? Would Overshadowed by Controversy be a better fit as it's seemingly impossible to talk about anything other than the character as opposed to the shows other merits/flaws? Can anyone confirm or deny if she's hated by those who otherwise like the show?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaughtopen"Franchise Original Sin" or "Older Than They Think"?
I did some edits of the YMMV page of Metallica's St. Anger, and some people have been fudging around on an entry between Franchise Original Sin and Older Than They Think. The matter has to do with St. Anger's negative reputation among fans, and how the flaws of the album (namely sketchy audio mixing and James Hetfield's lyrics) were argued (particularly by Todd in the Shadows) to have been around to a less significant degree in previous Metallica albums. Timeline for context:
- Was originally coined
as Franchise Original Sin.
- I later removed it
because I argued the trope should be applied on the original work, not on the nadir.
- A different user swooped in
and reinstated it as Older Than They Think because "Indeed, not Franchise Original Sin but another trope." I mostly agreed that this was probably more correct and could be left be, though I still did a bit of tweaking on the entry
to give clearer context, be less complain-y, and remove the egregious Todd in the Shadows reference.
- Several months later, an entirely different user switches it back
to Franchise Original Sin without giving an edit reason.
I don't want to risk an edit war by switching it back after we'd already gone through this, but I just wanna make sure if it's actually correct to do so or not. There's a chance this topic might not even fit for either trope in the way they're meant to be used, but I think it's supposed to be more Older Than They Think (referring to present issues being, in fact, older than believed), not indicating that St. Anger is itself the "franchise original sin". Thoughts?
openDeadpanSnarker Indexes
Should Deadpan Snarker be a Self-Demonstrating Article? You can't tell which lines are which media categories without reading them thoroughly.
openHTAW goes where/limits and complaining
- Hard-to-Adapt Work: The Secret Invasion comic series was a large Crisis Crossover event that overhauled the post-Civil War status quo and continued to have an impact on the Marvel Universe. The concept of Skrulls posing as established characters such as Rhodey and Everett Ross for an uncertain amount of time would have repercussions that could be covered over the course of a Phase, if not a Saga in and of itself. Having such a grand event being covered in a six-episode TV series can feel underwhelming, especially with such a small cast consisting of little to no superheroes. Even The Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes had taken several liberties when adapting the comic storyline.
The last part makes me think Hard-to-Adapt Work should only apply to the work being adapted, not the adaptation. And the many complaints I've seen about the 2023 series make me thing more of this is difficulty of fitting it in the MCU given its differences than difficulties within the source material.
Two other related questions about Hard-to-Adapt Work.
- The Lord of the Rings is listed as one even after the films proved it possible and well done. Is it due to the prior adaptations being poorly received and/or it being surprising the success of the film adaptations were.
- Undertale isn't listed despite many attributes prohibitive for non-interactive work. So does it require serious effort/discussion regarding adapting to count?
Also there's so much complaining under YMMV.Secret Invasion 2023 that it might need looking into.
openWMG pages for creators
So WMG.Lady Gaga has two sections: one for her music videos and one seemingly about Lady Gaga herself. I just had to remove a section about Lady Gaga having an Oedipus Complex for her real life father and there's another example about Lady gaga being a Satan-worshipper, which is some Illuminati-level conspiracy theory crafting.
Now, I know the section about her videos is fine as it's making guesses about her work, but this section seems like it's violating all kinds of Real Life Troping and gossip policies.
Is this ok? Should it be removed? And while this is the only page I cam across, should WMG pages for creators that talk about the creator and not their work be blanket-banned?
openQuestion Adding Images To Trope with no pic.
So this is something that has been on my mind for some time, and I am just trying to make sure I get this right so I can understand so far. Are we allowed to post pictures in the trope page, or do we need to discuss the chosen images in the thread? I say this since it is something I wanted to know and I want to know if you have to discuss images on the no image thread. If not, then what should we do regarding the situation?
If I do confuse you I will try my best to clarify myself regarding the question.
Edited by Echidnaopen What trope does this fit ? Film
So I recently learned that the actor dog that played John Wick's dog Daisy, then named Andy, is now called Wick after the man himself. So now I'm left wondering if there's any Trivia or Main trope this example belongs to ? Can you guys help me out ?
openCompletely forgot to announce intent to launch a trope
Jumped the gun on the trope Protection in Mouth once three days had passed, without bothering to follow the rule that said indicate intent to launch. Did I screw myself over, does it need to be deleted? Or can it simply be axed and put back on launchpad?
openSuper RWBY Sisters YMMV clean up
So, it's moreso related to Moral Event Horizon but I feel like it's being misused on this page so if someone could maybe take a look, that would be great. I'd do it myself but I'd rather not get fingered if I'm in the wrong here.
open Are Kyle and Korey from Being Ian the "Manly man and Sensitive guy" duo of their TV show?
Kyle: He's the oldest brother out of the three siblings, Korey, Ian, and himself. He is laid-back, lazy, and serves as a “Big Brother Bully” and an "Aloof Big Brother" to Ian and on occasion Korey. He's very very smart, but doesn't act that way because he he is self-conscious about his status as one of the cool popular kids. He's obsessed with girls and acts like a casanova towards them. Kyle's main interests are razzing his brothers and pursuing the opposite sex. He will readily chase any attractive female that catches his attention, but these advances usually end in rejection. He is always into girls and has a dirty mind set. When it comes to his brothers, he's aggressive towards them when he bullies them.
Korey: He is very eccentric and not even his own family understands him much of the time. He is also implied to be quite private. Caught in the middle of his two brothers, Korey combines Ian's niceness and sensitivity with Kyle's laziness and antagonism. He is a bit naive and sweet, but always willing to help his brothers out of a pinch, He can be the “Baby of the Bunch”. Ian seems to have a better relationship with Korey, overall, than he has with Kyle. He has a high pitched voice as well, especially compared to Kyle. In the episode "Bad Day at White Rock", Korey is rescued by a girl named Andrea. She proves to be something of a tomboy (Not at Level of Sandi) and shares a lot of his interests. The two get along famously and Korey develops an obvious crush on her, on the way back home even dreaming of her as he sleeps. He also gets flustered when Ian calls her his girlfriend, after the pair 'rescue' him. He is also a little shy and naive when it comes to love.
opennew troper with seeming fetish-motivated editing
All of Summerhouse's limited number of edits seem to revolve around nude scenes in some way (particularly the Spider-Man 3 scene where Spidey pulls the Venom suit off himself in the bell tower), and they also posted a negative-effort TLP draft called Symbolic nudity
. Got me scratchin' my head.
open Are me and my friend a real life example of the Tomboy and Girly Girl duo?
My friend: She doesn't wear any makeup, has a short boyish haircut, and wears clothes like T-shirts, jeans, pants, and sweatshirts. She also doesn't wear nail polish or get her nails done. Although, I've seen her wear a dress to prom once when I saw her there.
Me: I wear makeup (mascara, lipgloss, blush) almost every day, if not all the time. I have my nails manicured all the time as I enjoy pampering myself by doing my own nails every 2 weeks, I wear blouses, jeans, dresses, and skirts as my choice of clothing. I love doing my hair and giving myself blowouts before going to school. I also love love, LOVE going shopping especially for cute clothes, cosmetics, cute shoes, perfume, and getting boba. My favorite color is pink and honestly I would get anything that is pink and has bows on it.
The only difference is our personalities. She is a Genki Girl while I am more like an Ice Queen, or an Aloof Dark Haired girl.
openCharacter Perception possible misuse.
These Character Perception Evolution entries are possible misuse as they fail to explain if/how the popularity of their portrayals before that change was effected.
- Back when Kingdom Hearts II initially released, Roxas was a major Base-Breaking Character due to the games' infamous Prolonged Prologue at the beginning. Roxas was considered to be a less interesting and appealing character compared to Sora, his storyline was accused of being full of melodrama and wangst (the scene of him smashing DiZ's computer and later screaming at him were often cited as reasons to make fun of the game), and most players were unhappy that Roxas took the focus away from Sora or any of the Disney characters. These days, Roxas is considered to be one of the most beloved characters in the fandom (thanks in part to games like Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix and 358/2 Days fleshing out his character more) due to his more mature and serious personality, in contrast to Sora. His backstory is also considered to be one of the most tragic in the fandom and fans are more likely to feel bad for the trauma that he had to endure. Word of God has even stated that the popularity of Roxas was the entire reason that he returned in Kingdom Hearts III and was finally given a happy ending. Sound like it's a valid retroactive shift, but not sure how to state it here.
- Master Xehanort, who upon the release of Birth by Sleep, was praised as the best villain in the series due to his Affably Evil demeanor, his massive Xanatos Gambit pulled over the course of the game, having a The Chessmaster role that directly tied into the at the time widely anticipated Kingdom Hearts III, and amazing performances by both Chikao Ohtsuka and Leonard Nimoy. However, in recent years, it is easy to find fans calling him out for being indirectly responsible for the infamous Kudzu Plot, often criticized for being an Invincible Villain, and contributing to several Retcons and Ass Pulls. His reception was soured even further after the release of Kingdom Hearts III and Dark Road, both of which attempted to paint Xehanort in a sympathetic light to varying degrees. The former revealed that he was actually a Well-Intentioned Extremist who detested the darkness all along and was attempting to restore balance by wiping out the world and starting anew. Many fans called this out for being a large Motive Decay that largely contradicted his characterization in games prior. The latter game would reveal that Xehanort had been manipulated during his adolescence and was driven to becoming a villain due to the death of his friends pushing him down that path, which some fans found to be a poor Freudian Excuse that attempted to rationalize his actions and make him more sympathetic. Fairly certain this is misuse as just complaining about their later portrayals as opposed to prior ones being re-revaulated, but asking here to be sure.
- Steven Universe: When the late Rose Quartz was first introduced, the fanbase fell in love with her. This was thanks in part to her chemistry with Greg, her formation of the Crystal Gem Rebellion to save earth, and her encouraging Pearl and Garnet to be themselves, the former of whom she had a romantic subplot with. However, as the show went on, many both in-universe and out of universe learned about her character flaws. In particular, her views on humans were shown to be much more condescending than originally thought, she was implied to have left Pearl for Greg without considering her feelings, and she poofed Bismuth and left her trapped for eons in the bubble without telling anyone, a situation that was morally grey at best. But what really changed many people's opinion on her was the revelation that she was Pink Diamond the whole time, Pearl was her slave, and her faking her shattering lead to the corruption of all Gems on Earth and the creation of the Cluster in an attempt to destroy the planet outright. This caused many to turn on her, viewing her as a selfish individual whose irresponsibility, poor decisions and numerous mistakes overshadow any good she might have done. On the other hand, many defenders remained, pointing out her more positive traits, such as her genuine love of Steven despite never getting to meet him, as well as hints that she genuinely regretted some of her actions during the war. As a result, she became one of the most polarizing characters in the entire series; though even her die hard fans view her as a severely flawed individual at best. Fails to explain the retroactive change but it does seem likely the case. My question is does it count if the change was 100% intentional by the work? And is In-Universe Broken Pedestal instead as IU CPE would mean Show Within a Show?
openOf crosswicking for The Movie of a series Film
So, I recently made individual pages for both BoBoiBoy movies, BoBoiBoy: The Movie and BoBoiBoy Movie 2, and am gradually crosswicking them.
Let's say there's occurrences of the same trope both in the original series and in a movie. Should the latter's example be a sub-bullet of the former on the trope page? Or should the movie's examples go in the appropriate Film folder?
Example: Height Insult has 3 examples from BBB, 2 of which are from movies, but I was hesitant to move the two movie examples to the "Films - Animated" folder, which I now think would be appropriate since I moved those sub-bullets for that trope example to the respective movie pages
from the BoBoiBoy page itself.
A different example: Mourning a Dead Robot has two BBB examples, one from the series and one from the movie. I haven't edited it recently yet to correct the wick, but I'm uncertain if I should leave the movie example in its current position or move it to the "Films - Animated" folder.
I lean towards separating show examples from movie examples in crosswicking unless they have information that cross-references each other. But I'd like to get more feedback please. Thank you.
open Potential complaining in YMMV of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? Literature
I had a look at the YMMV section of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? and the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot entry seems more complaining about the premise than any neglected plot points.
* They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The very idea of exploring an Isekai setting based in an MMORPG is nothing new, but has the potential to be extremely deep and rich if the lore and write-up is done right. The actual novel itself, though, only seems to rely on the game as an excuse as to why the players are there fighting the monsters as they are. There is no exploration of the game mechanics, how players interact with them and the bearings they have on the plot at large à la Sword Art Online, and actual story content is threadbare and disjointed. It doesn't even really work as a game setting, as games have to have rules and balancing if they're to be fair and believable, while gameplay in the story is deliberately designed poorly to favor a subset of players for no discernible reason than a gag, which is the deconstruction of isekai protagonists being The Ace. Nothing would have changed plot-wise had all of the game-related aspects been removed, as their presence in the story is just fluff. In fact, removing the constraints of a game setting would give the author even more leg room to wiggle without breaking the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, since it still has the makings of a standard isekai plot.Wanted input on what to do rather than get gung ho about deleting the example.
EDIT: Noticed the appropriate thread. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16509479720A72263400&page=1
Best just close this already.

So, saw that adding a Broken Aesop to The Last Jedi's page would need to be approved first, so I figured to ask if this was acceptable (or if it was already added/removed)
One of the aesops was that your life is too important to throw away. However, it's underscored by not Holdo's Heroic Sacrifice to take out an entire fleet and Luke's sacrifice to hold off the First Order long enough for everyone to escape, but it's also underscored by the person giving the aesop in the first place, Rose, who nearly died to save Finn from having to sacrifice himself in the first place.