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Ask the Tropers:
openPotential popcorning creator pages
Today, I stumbled upon Gerry Tesch and Marina Terkulova. These are the parents of Gloria Tesch, who is the author the terrible vanity-published Maradonia Saga. All three creator pages were made by Pony Boy and lack tropes or sections listing what they've worked on. Gloria is fine as a creator page as long as someone makes a section listing her works, but I'm not so convinced for her parents.
My problem is twofold. For one, in addition to the pages being very barebones and self-isolated, I don't know if they need creator pages. Gerry at least directed Maradonia and the Shadow Empire, which is also a terrible vanity project as you might imagine, and it non-specifically says he worked on German writing, so maybe there's something there. Marina absolutely does not need a creator page though, since the only thing she's done is make the illustrations for her daughter's books. For two, they just seem to exist to document controversies surrounding these infamous books. They're written neutrally, but there's this sort of undercurrent around these pages existing at all.
Can I cutlist those two pages, or is there enough to salvage something?
Edited by MurlocAggroBopenWhat is a Ghost Wick ?
Self-explanatory, I saw several a lot of these on Cut List. What is that, and how can I find them ?
openDeleting references to cut work
Several weeks ago, Elmo 3000 deleted all examples and quotes linking to WebVideo.Mau Ler because "Red link". I'm aware the work page itself was cut because it was deemed non-tropeworthy, but I'm not sure if there's a policy for or against purging all references to such works wholesale.
(I admit to doing this myself for one fanfic cut by P5, but on lewdness grounds which don't apply here.)
openWeird character folder quote change Film
On 26th Oct, sapphyblue change the folder quote in Mark Hoffman's character folder on Characters.Saw: Jigsaw and Accomplices from a quote said by Hoffman himself:
To one said by another character to him (incidentally, the one Hoffman told the aforementioned line to):
I find this change rather weird because I've never seen any character folder or character-specific page use quotes said by other characters to describe the one whom the folder/page addresses (even if they give an idea of who the character is). I'm not really sure how I should deal with this, though. Is it best if I send sapphyblue a notifier? Should I bring this issue on a forum thread? Or should I do something else? Perhaps it's better to leave it as it is?
Edited by Inky100openPinocchiogoria Page Videogame
So, I was working on the Pinocchiogoria page and for some reason, the index located down in the bottom of the page lists the Pinocchiogoria page as its own index, despite the fact that the page itself doesn't have an index within the page. How do I fix this problem?
open How broad is I Let You Win?
I recently had a read through it as I was making a TLP draft, wanting to mae sure it is distinct. Based on the description and Playing with page, it tells me that it is about characters who orchestrate someone's win (as in it was planned) and that fact becomes known after. However, I found a pothole to here from Sore Loser's Adventure Time example, where Finn genuinely wants to win but sabotages himself to make Jake happy, and the latter never finds out. So does I Let You Win cover this scope, or is this a case of misuse?
Edited by Eggy0openThe alphabetisation of the tv series’ main page.
Hello, everyone. I happen to find this main page called Outland, a Australian tv show I’ve discovered not too long ago (also not to be confused with this page and this page, that both works share the same title). While it doesn’t seem important but the alphabets listed under the "Following examples include" from the tv show look rather messy, or perhaps there is no issue with it?
I thought it would be alright worth mentioning this seemingly obscure tv show known as the Outland, released in 2012. I definitely can fix the alphabetical order by myself somehow without a doubt (after all, I honestly did do some edits through this page before). So first long story short, is it okay to simply ignore it or proceed fixing the alphabetisations freely (though it might probably take me some time to finish however)?
openInviting others to forum threads
Hi there,
I've searched, but I'm afraid I can't seem to find the answer.
How do I invite another troper to a thread? Am I correct in thinking that adding a ~ symbol, followed by their user-name, pings them an alert in P Ms?
I've received P Ms saying a troper "wants to draw my attention to this Image Pickin' post" (for example) but I'm not sure how to do that myself.
Thank you,
Lex.
openMisuse(?) / more Ohvist issues
Ohvist added this to YMMV.My Little Pony A New Generation
- Spiritual Successor: Far too many comparisons to note within the general storyline, internal lore, character archetypes, and setting taking place sometime after the events of Friendship is Magic that the movie itself feels very much like a Kid-friendly adaptation of Fallout: Equestria.
- Best exemplified HERE
.
- Best exemplified HERE
- This is edit warring as they added it back after I removed it as they're too different in tone and content despite some similarities (FE is a R-rated war fic, ANG is family friendly). Cleanup
said to cut when they added it under YMMV.My Little Pony Generation 5.
- The video they linked is their own channel which seems problematic.
This is in addition to their other issues I I brought up prior
.
open Embarrassing Name Inspiration
Should the Embarrassing Name tropes cover an intance where the name itself is not embarrassing, but the background for it is?
Like if a character is named John and there is nothing wrong about it, but then we find out his mother gave him that name becuase she gave birth in a bathroom, so she decided to name him John.
open Questionable deleted example
This was deleted from YMMV.Pokemon Sun And Moon:
- Common Knowledge: Many point to Lusamine being a bad and abusive mother, when the game itself heavily implies that Nihilego's neurotoxins heavily affected her mind, mostly causing her to become obssessed with Ultra Beasts, particularly Nihilego. Not helping the fact that her husband mysteriously vanished sometime prior. There's likewise no real evidence of her being abusive towards her children. At most, controlling of Lillie and dismissive of Gladion. In the post-game, Gladion himself states Lusamine's change was the result of Nihilego.
The edit reason was "Lusamine literally insults her children and treats them with scorn. Verbal abuse is still abuse. Stop placing all the blame on an innocent Pokémon acting on instinct to excuse this vile woman’s behavior. I have suffered from verbal abuse by my own mother and it has deeply affected me, and I see a lot of her behavior reflected in Lusamine."
My issue is what was supposed to be the "Common Knowledge", that she wasn't shown as directly abusive under Nihilego's neurotoxin (which is untrue), or that she was abusive even without said influence (also untrue as objectively portrayed otherwise, but has fans disagree covered by UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Pokemon), or about the extent of her abuse being speculation/Fanon as opposed to clearly shown (the difference between Fanon/CK is an issue I've noticed)? That would determine the validity of the deletion.
openFor Want of a Nail substitute
So For Want Of A Nail is apparently not a trope anymore (something I disagree with, but fine), and I've got a problem. Many of the alternatives offered don't really fit with some of the examples used for characters, most commonly when describing the differences between the main version of a character and their AU self. Should these differences be put in the Alternate Self trope or can anyone think of a different trope that could be used?
openJust how much information should be mentioned in a character's description? Videogame
Felt like I have to ask this question hoping for those who are way more familiar with how this wiki works to give their thoughts as well. Wall of text warning though, as this does not involve only one video game. But a TL;DR is that some Gacha Games on this wiki have long character descriptions because they're also including gameplay information and other fluff, while there's a debate on whether one game should copy another similar game's way of handling descriptions. Who knows if the descriptions run the risk of going into Walkthrough Mode? Just how much "fluff" can really be added there?
For those who are not familiar with the above two games, the older and longer way of writing descriptions can still be seen on Characters.Genshin Impact Fischl, divided into paragraphs or parts:
- First, a short paragraph describing who they are, usually just in a concise manner, but longer ones talk about their lore.
- Second, a general paragraph describing their "core" gameplay mechanics; what their general gameplay is, what their skill does, what their Limit Break does.
- Third, another gameplay-related paragraph talking about their "character progression systems", like how their skills or Limit Break are improved through in-game means. There are also bits of fluff added in this part.
- Fourth, one sentence stating where the character can be obtained, as the game is a Gacha Game.
Note that the character descriptions for Star Rail used to have simple descriptions, yet there are tropers who massively expanded them to focus on their gameplay. The discussion on the descriptions started a month ago
... Several tropers (including myself) have already weighed in our thoughts on why trimming was necessary, though the discussion was mostly between tropers zero5889 and Ner0014re N, with the latter being the one who mostly did the trimming after getting plenty of responses from those who agree.
Personally, I agreed trimming specifically the "fluff" part of the third paragraph
, stating fluff doesn't really make sense depending on the character... as if other tropers were trying to link gameplay upgrades/passives and lore when they can be misinterpreted in another way, or are not exactly Gameplay and Story Integration at all. Welt's old character description in Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express used to have such kind of fluff that don't really make sense if you're into the lore of the character.
The newer and shorter way of writing descriptions can now be seen on Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express. Generally, there's no longer a paragraph talking about "character progression systems".
For what it's worth though, games like Arknights and Honkai Impact 3rd were written with concise/very simple character descriptions for years now (and tropers who are/were very active on maintaining them kept it that way), and yet troper zero5889 insisted that Honkai Impact 3rd needs some structuring on character pages, and suggested
that "detailed descriptions" for gachas like Arknights are long overdue.
But should it be the case? Are detailed character descriptions for Gacha Games really necessary?
If it would seem like troper zero5889 is planning to restructure character pages or rewrite descriptions on Gacha Games, they did confirm
they are going to give the character pages of Honkai Impact 3rd a look in the future. zero5889 also went to the Arknights forum
to suggest a rearranging of Arknights character pages to group them by "subclass" instead of general class, but several tropers objected and say it would just be overcomplicating things.
Recently on the Discussion tab
for Star Rail, there's another troper who disagreed on the trimming effort of some ability descriptions in Star Rail (particularly the removal of the "character progression systems" paragraph), like a week or so after the actual trimming edits were being done... suggesting the character descriptions of Genshin and Star Rail should still have a similar way of writing.
The trimming effort went through because many tropers agreed with it (like a majority vote, or so), but there are still those few who disagree (likely unware that a month-long discussion already happened).
Edited by DanteVinopenAm I allowed to move other Tropers' DethroningMoment entries for sorting/wick migration?
I recently moved GradeAUnderA from WebVideo/ to WebAnimation/
He has his own entry in DethroningMoment.Web Original
- Izzy 1: To be honest, GradeAUnderA's video "THE YOUTUBERS COMPLAINING ABOUT DRAMA RANT (Exposing Matthew Santoro)" rubbed me the wrong way, specifically the part where he insulted Markiplier. Now, before you make assumptions, I don't follow Markiplier or watch his stuff, but the fact that Grade was insulting him based on his appearance (having dyed red hair) and for calling himself "Markimoo" (which I heard is something his fans call him) rather than what he actually had to say was disappointing. And when he addressed this in his followup video saying that nobody is immune to criticism, I had 2 problems with that: 1. He was completely missing the point of why people were mad at him, for the most part, thinking that people were mad because Markiplier dyed his hair, initially pink for charity and later red out of respect for a dead friend, and saying he shouldn't be immune to criticism as a result, especially since Mark apparently caused more drama with his video. While I'm not sure if that's true, I think I can say that a lot of people, myself included, were more miffed about the way you attacked him for petty reasons, rather than that. 2. He makes a huge point about saying that everyone should be open to criticism, yet on Reddit, he tried to delete a thread criticizing him for getting "annoyed" by it
. Honestly, I was starting to like this guy's content, but these events turned me off from his videos.
- shonengirl: Hoo boy, his Pokémon video... It's hard to point out one moment in particular, but it's basically a series of "jokes" (I think) that have already been beaten up to death, revived, HM 01'd into tiny pieces, beat up again, horn drilled, and incinerated. And I seriously couldn't tell if it was all supposed to be a bunch of jokes or not due to many of the "jokes" (mainly "hurdy durr Pokeymanz is animal abuse!") being things said with complete seriousness before, and it comes off a lot like some cringy "scrub" ranting about something he knows nothing about, or at least has never played since gen I. The blatant Critical Research Failure all over the place was just painful to sit through, so much so I had to skip through tiny segments of it. This was especially jarring since he pulled up the gen I manual, something only hardcore fans usually do, and actually knew that Red is 11... But yet calls Red "Ash", something that no Pokemon fan over 12 would ever do, and he should be relieved that he wasn't swarmed by rabid Red fans by some miracle. If those were jokes, they weren't funny. It doesn't help that the description made me put my hopes up. The only things that were good or new were the bit about him actually getting Red and Blue's ages right, and the mocking of the deviation of game text from what's said in the manual. Everything else is just so cliche and overdone, and I expect more from him. Not to mention it feels like he's trying to jump on the hype train of second wave Pokemania because he can, and free cash.
Is it fine to move it to DethroningMoment.Web Animation without those tropers' permission?
Edited by AudioSpeaks2openWhy is the Adult Hater trope under the Jerk index?
I mean I noticed that most Adult Hater characters listed under that trope hate adults for sympathetic reasons. I mean sometimes Adults Are Useless and fail to protect children from harm.
As an adult myself, I noticed that a lot of adults aren’t even good people (& I find other adults insufferable and toxic) so IDK why that trope is under the Jerk Index.
EDIT: I only came on here because I didn’t want to remove the trope from the index without a discussion.
Edited by MsCC22openConsent to re-add a little removed text excerpt under a different wick. Videogame
Before the dewicking of Kill Em All as a trope, the Foil entry on Biker's folder in Characters.Hotline Miami looked like this:
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Kill Em All and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
After the dewicking, on the beginning of January 2023, Robert TYL removed the bolded part, making it look like this (note that this also includes a grammar correction done by another troper months later):
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
The removal of the bolded part makes Biker's point of "can spare a whole lot of people" come out of nowhere an unrelated. As such, I'd like to restore the bolded part with Leave No Survivors, since it's still a trope and fits Jacket's description better than the original Kill Em All.
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Leave No Survivors and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
Can I go ahead with this change, or does anyone have any objections?
Edited by Inky100openPermission to revert entry on Manga/AirGear. Anime
On Nov. 4th, 2018, I corrected
the Official Couple entry for Air Gear due to being inaccurate to the epilogue chapter.
- Original Version:
- Corrected Version:
- Erivale's version:
- Erivale: I just read through the whole series again, and it's pretty clear that Ikki's date with Simca is two riders who respect each other meeting up for a run and the fulfilment of an old promise, as compared to the overt romantic overtones involved in Ikki's resolution with Ringo. Even during the epilogue itself, Ringo is treated as the woman in Ikki's life, not just a prospective for his affections.
With this in mind, I request permission to revert the edit without risk of inciting an Edit War.
openHow do you address a nameless main character in a work?
For works where the main character doesn't have a name, how do we address them?
I'm writing up a work where the main character goes without a name at first, but only remembers theirs later through a spoiler. The name itself is technically not a spoiler, but might be confusing, since the character is not addressed by name for large portion of the early part of the work.
openVideo Secondary Tropes
Whenever I've tried adding secondary tropes to some of my videos recently, it tends to not let me do so. For example, if I try to search up Sword Beam as a secondary trope, I get nothing to select/add and when I try to search Half the Man He Used to Be, I only get media subsections (i.e. TV, anime, etc.), but not the main page itself. Has this been an issue for anyone else, or is there a website rule about this that I'm not aware of?

Quotes.Villainous Breakdown Film Live Action
I previously removed the Punctuated! For! Emphasis! link as a Chained Sinkhole, but it was added back. Permission to re-remove?
Also, despite prior cleanups agreeing to add commented out notes to top of Villainous Breakdown quotes pages not to add sinkholes, they're still a magnet for and regularly attracting such. So is they're anything more that can be done?