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openRemoved elaborated context in trope example Videogame
In Characters.Goddess Of Victory Nikke:
- Iron Scope added a Compelling Voice example in Little Mermaid's character folder
, which reads as a ZCE as it only says that she shares a power with two other characters.
- I edited the example
to elaborate on how she fits Compelling Voice as to not make it a ZCE.
- Sonic Gamer 07 alters the example to remove the description of how her powers work
, only referring it by comparing it to other characters and with a work-specific term for it (kotodama).
I don't think it's good to remove context from an example to make it rely on knowledge of other characters instead of letting it stand by itself, which would make it a bit confusing for readers who aren't familiar with the game, plus according to the "hidden trope name" rule of thumb for ZC Es, it doesn't really specify that her powers are a Compelling Voice. Can I add back the elaboration to not make it a ZCE that's too reliant on work knowledge or at least send a notifier to SonicGamer07?
Edited by Excessive-MenaceopenSpyro: Shadow Legacy armadillos in Spyro 1 Cliff Town- what trope does it fall under? Videogame
I just played through all of Spyro: Shadow Legacy, adding tropes to its page here, and just started playing through the Reignited remake of Spyro 1. Due to this technically out-of-order play order and reaching a certain stage in Spyro 1 Reignited, an odd, idiosyncratic question has come up.
In the original Spyro game, Cliff Town was implied to just be inhabited by Peace Keeper dragons. Here in Shadow Legacy (where the trope is meant for), the armadillos live there instead, with no dragons there. However, while Spyro 1's instruction book at least affirms the Peace Keeper dragons lived in their territory as a whole, nothing in it or the original game necessarily says no-one else lives in Cliff Town, and Shadow Legacy doesn't say anything to contradict Spyro 1 regarding Cliff Town despite the armadillos. As a result, I don't believe it can be considered a Retcon. In addition, since this is part of the same continuity as the classic games and is also a video game itself, I don't believe it falls under Adaptation Expansion. I also want to say Remember the New Guy? or New Neighbours as the Plot Demands, but some little details stop each from being a perfect match.
So I guess the question is "What trope would a new species living in a past canon location fall under, let alone the Shadow Legacy armadillos living in Spyro 1's Cliff Town?" Is it one of those tropes after all, or another one?
openAsking if these entries are valid Videogame
Originally posted on the BB thread and here but decided to rewrite part of it.
These examples from BrokenBase.Touken Ranbu are kinda shakey. This is primarily because a majority of them were added by one troper (biggestSoap) and since the fandom is fairly niche (in English speaking spheres), I have a feeling that these entries might be biased or apply to other fandoms besides Touken. All opinions I have on the issues are bolded.
- In July 2015, an update changed several charactersnote Izuminokami, Ookurikara, and Doudanuki from tachi to uchigatana. Naturally, fans were divided over this change, with some not really minding while others were unhappy, considering the change a big downgrade for the characters; however, their tachi-grade stats weren't nerfed, making them a strong uchigatana trio. Especially Izuminokami, who currently holds the position as the strongest uchigatana. unsure
- How the Revisionists are portrayed in and out of game counts. Some are fine with their monsterous characterization, since it brings more focus on the Saniwa's swords and leaves less room to root for the empire like what happened with the Abyssal Fleet in KanColle. Others argue that the Revisionists barely have character at all, and treating them as little more than cannon fodder takes away from exploring how the factions operate and the possible implications of how they came to be (See Fanon below). unsure (also has a "see below" mark)
- The announcement of the two anime adaptations had mixed reactions. Some people fear that the adaptations will not be very good (especially considering the low opinions many fans have of the KanColle anime), while others are happy about the prospect of their favorite swords getting animated. Another reason why a part of the fandom (mostly overseas fans) are against the adaptations is because they fear how the new Touken Ranbu fans will be. It was notable how they held the popularity of the franchise back, however, with two upcoming anime, chances are pretty high the bigger mass will discover Touken Ranbu. unsure
- Related to above, will the Saniwa (and by extension, what will the Saniwa's gender will be) appear in the anime or not has sparked debates, similar to the adaptation of KanColle. While the saniwa of Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru sparked some debate over whether or not they should have been depicted in full or just have another sword take the role (amusingly, similar to KanColles own adaptation), Ufotable's version for Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu ended up in some wondering why the saniwa wasn't depicted as off screen like the Hanamaru one, why they looked like a little boy, and whether the decision to go for an androgynous look and not confirm either way instead of featuring the more popular interpretations of the character was an example of pandering, chickening out, a good idea, or something else entirely. not only does it contain Word Cruft (related to the above), I'm very unsure of this entry since a lot games have self-insert like Main characters'
- While Kiwame has been well-received by most players as a way to upgrade the weak tantous to be useful on later maps, some are concerned by the changes in their lines that focus more on that Saniwa's attention and less on their own character tics. In a particular case, many fans of Imanotsurugi are reluctant to give him the Kiwame upgrade because it retcons a huge part of his character, and tragically so. unsure
- However, as later swords got remodels, it seems this trait is only reserved for tantous only. Justified, as tantous are supposed to be protection weapons. natter
- In the Western fanbase, there are quite a few vocal fans that openly question the morality of shipping the younger looking toudan, particularly the tantou, with the swords that are clearly intended to be adults, believing it to be disgusting despite the actual ages of the swords who in reality are well over centuries old; some of the younger looking sword boys are older than the characters that look like adults. There are fans that argue back that the age they appear to be is irrelevant due to the reasoning mentioned. The JP fanbase generally doesn't make a big deal out of this but that doesn't stop the debates from coming up. Valid but I do think it might be better as Values Dissonance
- Now that the first seasons of the Anime adaptations have concluded, which one was superior? Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru or Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu? In Japan, it's made abundantly clear that Fans tend to prefer Hanamaru's adaptation over Katsugekinote and the dvd/bluray sales only hammer this home but in the west it's more divided. The below examples are arguing with themselves which may be part for the course for a BB entry but I do think that some of it just complain-y
- Some say Katsugeki was better because it supposedly had more of a plot, "relevant" character arcs, played up the oft-forgotten "protecting history" angle, and to some felt more like a Touken Ranbu anime in adapting the more dramatic aspects of the swords' backstoriesnote mainly only with the two leads Izuminokami and Mutsunokami, plus tritagonist Horikawa; the rest of the squad, despite being a part of the main cast, did not really get much development or arc focus and decry Hanamaru as "the Pixiv version" that makes the series look no different than any other Slice of Life series, and overexaggerates the characters and their arcs to match with fan perceptions (leading to events like Yamatonokami's controversial desicion to stop Okita from getting injured at the Ikeda-ya). Some also feel like the series crams too many characters in to make sure nobody feels left out, at the expense of the main pair's arc and development, up until the end. kinda complaining about more casual stories
- However, others argue that Katsugeki was a soulless bore of an adaptation whose only saving grace was it being visually impressive, and that it didn't live up to what it promised/was hyped up to be. In comparison, fans of Hanamaru say that this series felt like it was made for the fans, fun to watch, took an Ensemble Cast approach thus giving all fans more time to see their faves instead of staying focused on one (and to a VERY LESSER degree, two) sword group and was supposedly more faithful to the game and characterization; whereas Katsugeki took various liberties, particularly with their citadel's lore (the multiple Konnosukes in one citadel and being able to only send two swords at a time back in history at one point, in particular) and characterization/dynamics. People who prefer Hanamaru often refer to Katsugeki as a "Fate/stay night with a Touken Ranbu skin" anime and various other snarky nicknames involving that franchise due to their similarities in animation and other things ufotable lifted from their previous Fate adaptations. Complaining that an adaption is bad
- There are some fans who say they like both adaptations but lean more towards one, and those who say that both adaptations sucked or didn't like the heavy Shinsengumi focus on both series' leads (two Okita swords in Hanamaru, two Hijikata swords in Katsugeki) and their commonality of attempting to prevent their masters' most famous historical injuries. Some other fans tend to prefer the Stage play, Musical and Manga adaptations over both, while others just prefer the original game and fan created content. unsure
- Lastly, there are fans who whole heartily liked both adaptations or felt that both adaptations fulfilled their purpose of what they were adapted to be like with Hanamaru being the Slice of Life anime it was promised to be and Katsugeki being the action oriented other half. unsure
- The English translation of the game divided fans. For one thing, the website it was hosted on was largely known for ecchi and hentai games, so playing the game made certain fans uncomfortable, not only for the porn ads that would surround the game window, but for the sheer absurdity of such a tame game about men being hosted in such a place. For another, many fans took issue with the incredibly liberal translation, which often changed the characterisations of the boys, and contained many spelling and grammar errors. Some fans refuse to touch the English version thanks to all of these issues, while others think that the issues are minor and are just glad the game got an official translation at all. maybe valid
- The shipping of swords who are brothers can cause controversy, with one side claiming that it's incest and therefore immoral, and the other side countering that fiction has nothing to do with a writer or consumer's morality and therefore what a person ships doesn't matter. The issue gets muddied further by the nonhuman natures of the Toudan, and that what exactly makes a pair of swords "brothers" varies from character to character. Much like the tantou issue above, this argument is exclusive to the Western side of the fandom due to Values Dissonance. As squicky as it is, its a fairly common talking point in a decent amount of fandoms so this is not a new issue
- Over the years, fans have become conflicted about the statuses of the Series Mascots (Mikazuki Munechika, Yamanbagiri Kunihiro, Kashuu Kiyomitsu, Kasen Kanesada, Hachisuka Koutetsu, and Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki) and how much emphasis the franchise places on them for what they assume is for no other reason than because they're the mascots: Unsure and violates the Examples Are Not Recent rule
- Dissatisfaction with Mikazuki's "special positions" has grown over time because of his frequent appearances in merchandise, attention from advertisers, assurance of an important role in every adaptation, appearance on the cover of anthologies, and other benefits. Also, unlike the five starter swords, he is not limited to being advertised as part of a group, meaning he is often promoted independently of the Sanjou, Tenka Goken, and, on occasion, the starter swords, leading to accusations of preferential treatment, especially over the other Tenka Goken who some believe he is treated as better than, despite there being no evidence of this in the story content that features the Tenka Goken.note While most works focus on Mikazuki Munechika due to his mascot status, every work treats the Tenka Goken group as a whole as special because of their status, even the original game itself. Others have argued back that Mikazuki showing up is justifiable and inevitable because of his status as one of the most recognizable characters and that his appearances don't take away from focus from other characters in the franchise, as he often isn't even the main character of the adaptations he appears in, with the exceptions being the live-action movies and Kabuki, due to the works either featuring an Ensemble Cast or focusing on some other character (ironically usually being some other overused Touken Danshi). There have also been some accusations of hypocrisy on the part of critics, as some other non-mascots like Tsurumaru Kuninaga and the Shinsengumi swords have shown up almost as often in merch and just as often in adaptations without facing the same heat that Mikazuki does because they aren't outright regarded as mascot characters.
- Yamanbagiri Kunihiro has also received criticism over the years, particularly following the announcement of the stage play's anime adaptation, due to his frequent appearance in adaptations, to the point where the only major adaptation he has not appeared in is Kabuki, making him more prominent than even the equally popular Kashuu Kiyomitsu. Like with Mikazuki, fans have argued about preferential treatment because of his popularity and a desire to see other swords promoted more, especially among the five starter swords, as, with the exception of Kashuu Kiyomitsu, the Mutsunokami, Kasen, and especially Hachisuka have made far fewer appearances and most of their advertising comes from being advertised as a part of the five starter swords group rather than because of their individual characters (Although Mutsunokami has been a little better off in recent years than to the introduction of the Jouishishi).
- Kashuu Kiyomitsu receives this as well, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent because he appears in less adaptations unless it somehow relates to the equally oversaturated Shinsengumi group (the first Touken Ranbu Musical being an exception). However, his Spotlight-Stealing Squad tendencies have been highlighted by fans who have watched the musicals (not helped by the fact that his actor is incredibly popular, not just the character, giving the production more reason to promote him over others), and the anthologies that are impossible to get through without at least three chapters that concentrate primarily on Kashuu and his Shinsengumi comrade. Fans of the other five starter swords have also pointed out just how long his Special Investigation event is compared to the other starter swords, leading to accusations of bias.
Any thoughts?
openQUESTION: can I add the pale garden to the fridge horror page on minecraft? Videogame
CCONTEXT: The name kind of speaks for itself. I have a fridge theory based on how the creak is behaving, along the way to defeating it. Can I begin the small edits? Also, if you find some errors, it will be nice if you'd be the one to fix it, since it won't be easy for me to be aware of it.
EDIT: made it a bit more lively to myself, while fixing a few spelling errors
Edited by bereshpoop19openAnother user removing my WMG entries Videogame
Just now, ttuser023 removed
some content I added
to my own WMG assumptions in WMG.MultiVersus, while at the same time adding an assumption of their own.
As far as I'm aware (since the only content concerning about WMG entries that I know thus far is the description on the main Wild Mass Guessing page), all assumptions should be welcomed regardless of how legitimate and/or outlandish it sounds, unless it doesn't seem too much like a proper theory (which even then seems to be a hard condition to reach in WMG entries). This should imply that while you can remove assumptions you had added yourself beforehand, removing those of other users wouldn't be really allowed.
Aside from sending a PM to ttuser023 so that they can be aware of this query (which I've already done), what should I do in this situation?
Edited by Inky100openA troper who posted extremely biased and outright fabricated edits due to shipping bias Videogame
I saw troper Sayacha change several YMMV entries on Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and even wrote on Ship Sinking (videogames) that had very biased takes and even blatant lies. I felt compelled to delete and undo their edits, especially the claim on the Ship Sinking page. As I've said there, the claim that protagonist Cloud Strife "friend zones" Aerith Gainsborough in the final chapter of Rebirth is complete fabrication. There are two ways their conversation can go, based on Relationship Values. He either enthusiastically looks forward to going on a date with her again, or responds with less enthusiasm, but he never outright rejects her. Writing that Aerith "probably realized she doesn't like him romantically" is another very biased reading. All she said was that she really likes Cloud but is unsure yet what kind of "like" she feels. It's a deliberately vague response. Anyone with common sense and an objective mind can see that what I say is true by looking at Youtube videos of that scene on Chapter 14.
Sayacha also claimed on both Ship Sinking and the YMMV page that developer's commentary on a book (Ultimania) allegedly said that Aerith was "certainly killed off again" and that developers "confirmed" it themselves. Another blatant fabrication. I checked the claim and the only thing that came up from every non-biased fan translator who translated that Japanese book was that the developers deliberately designed the outcome of Aerith's fate as of Rebirth to be vague and mysterious. Did she die? Is the Aerith shown "alive" afterwards a mere illusion by Cloud? Or is there something more going on? The game's story introduces the concept of Alternate Self and what appears to be Alternate worlds. There are no details yet revealed as to how this phenomena occurs within the lore of FF 7 but it's there. And the developers made a deliberate narrative choice to keep the ending of the game ambiguous and leaving the story full of questions in order to entice players to look forward to the next entry for answers. Ask yourselves. What kind of writer/developer would be incompetent enough to spend YEARS of development time to deliberately create an ambiguous situation to create speculation for the next few years, only to go a couple of months later and say "Actually, nothing changed. LOL"?
I'm also reporting this because I regretfully ended up engaging in an edit war on the YMMV page by deleting/reverting Sayacha's biased edits back to the more neutral posts. However, the main reason I'm reporting this is because I'm seeing another bad sign that the FF 7 pages are about to be swarmed with another wave of edit warring by extremely biased shippers intent on spreading their agenda with bad faith justifications. We've seen this nightmare before in the original 1997 version of FF 7. It may be best to take preventive measures by locking down the pages of FF 7 Remake and Rebirth too until the third and final game finally clarifies everything.
openElden Ring DLC gets its own Video Game page Videogame
So Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree suddenly got a separate page under the video game page (VideoGame.Elden Ring Shadow Of The Erdtree). While I'm not sure it's the right namespace to be used, it feels like it's jumping the gun separating itself so quickly.
The only other times this happened was with Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty, which fleshed out well enough, and The Witcher 3, which treated them as continuations of the "Tropes A-Z" subpage creation but that comes with consistency issues.
My question is, do we really need to separate the Elden Ring's DLC from the base game in this instance?
openPermission to cut a character page (due to citation issues) Videogame
In Characters.Death End Re Quest Code Z, there are a few entries that cite the official website
(the website has an 18+ warning due to graphic violence). However, in the upcoming works thread
, it was confirmed that official websites do not count (due to, to quote the post, "If something is present solely in commentary made by a work's creator or someone involved in its making, but is not present in the work itself, it cannot serve as the sole source for examples."). It's thanks to this that I also hid some tropes on the main page Death end re;Quest Code Z.
I've already made a sandbox for the characters so I'm asking if it is ok to cut the character and reinstate it once the game is released.
Edited by Ayumi-chanopenVisualNovel/VideoGame split on trope pages. Videogame
If I want to crosswick/add a Visual Novel example in a trope page and it doesn't have a Visual Novels folder or subpage, should I create it myself, or should I put the VN under Video Games?
In the case that the Video Games folder already contains some VNs, is it better to move them to a new Visual Novels folder, or to leave it like that and add my example there?
Edited by animuacidopenFemale protagonist from P3P Videogame
So I was on the Persona 3 YMMV section and came across this entry, edited by Key Will Jay:
- The female main character herself is rather divisive. Some love her inclusion for providing an interesting "what if" scenario (and with the main theme of Portable being the butterfly effect, this also fits) and for her personality contrasting with the male main character while still keeping the "masking feelings" theme. They may also like how some of the less interesting Social Links get replaced with S.E.E.S. members. Others see her as unnecessary and believe she ruins the game's themes of overcoming despair and accepting death with said alternate scenario and personality, and dislike how SEES is made obviously friendlier in her route (a criticism fans of older titles sometimes level at newer titles in general). The memes and exposure surrounding her also induce Hype Backlash for non-fans and those that have played the console version but do not try Portable, calling her overrated. It was bad enough that when an alleged lead regarding a theoretical remake mentioned cutting out Portable content (which turned to be reality per the reveal of Reload), the fanbase split between those calling it a worst-case scenario and those celebrating the removal.
I’m not as active in the fandom but do people really fight over the female protagonist? Because I’ve never seen much divide over her. In fact, I’ve only seen people express their disappointment of her being excluded from Reload.
Edited by Superdude96openDogwhistle on Memetic Mutation Videogame
So i was reading the YMMV page for the cancelled Video Game/Hyenas, and i came across the following example of memetic mutation:
- JOIN THE ACK- explanation At the end of the announcement trailer for the game, the slogan "JOIN THE PACK" is supposed to be displayed. However, due to the fact that You Tube puts the thumbnail of the next recommended video on the screen at the end of every video, said thumbnail ends up covering the word "PACK" and turning it into "ACK"—a common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. The abrupt cancellation of the game itself just adds to it.
The part "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. " really bugged me, this whole sentence felt really weird. That feels terribly specific and it's overall just a clunky piece of writing.
So i decided to investigate on google for "hyenas "join the ack" " and my suspicious were validated, all of the results containing the phrase where from Kiwi Farms and 4chan, with true context of this "Ack" that the troper pretends it's a "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making" was actually a mockery of the suicide of transgender individuals, one other example of "join the ack" that i found was an steam user making a community post with this as the title and going full transphobe.
Now, the point i'm trying to make is that based on my research, there is absolutely no way KB Zheng 123 didn't know what the context of that was about, which means they intentionally and knowingly added a transphobic joke to the site and tried to pass off as a regular joke, and that requires action by the moderators, as there should be zero tolerance for transphobia and transphobic users in this site.
openAdvice on how to proceed with a Bumblekast Page. Videogame
So, for those who don't know, The BumbleKast is a podcast run by semi-famed Sonic the Hedgehog writer Ian Flynn and a close friend of his. From its humble beginnings as a rather standard podcast, it's more recent incarnations have become more frequently about for fun questions from various Sonic fans (myself included). The sticky thing is that it also does occasionally get serious questions pertaining to Sonic lore and due to his increasingly prominent role in the franchise, his answers are frequently treated as Word of God and regularly gets cited on various Sonic trivia pages, even when he makes clear his word only goes so far. And they've had incidents with hostile tropers in the past.
For these reasons, the page would obviously get a huge disclaimer relating to how seriously it is to be taken. I'm wondering if a stricter citation rule would be warranted too. Any other advice before I go forward with it (or if I shouldn't) would be welcome.
Edited by DDRMASTERM

In live-service games or those that keep on receiving updates. What should be done when an example that used to be valid or was applied in an older version suddenly got removed in a newer version?
Other Genshin tropers brought this up too years ago in the Discussion tab
I'd like to know if there's a guideline for these kinds of examples here on TV Tropes, because there are several other live service games I know of here with trope examples that are "outdated" or "no longer applies in the newer version".
"Blind Idiot" Translation and Good Bad Translation examples also have this dilemma sometimes, as it's common for live-service game devs to fix translation/localization errors when pointed out by players in the game's online platforms.
Edited by DanteVin