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openSelf edit-war?
I'm not sure whether to ask about this here or on the Scrappy cleanup thread, but I'm trying here because it's an odd behavior from a specific troper.
Basically, Brian KT removed Devon and Cornwall from The Scrappy entry on YMMV.Quest For Camelot saying "What about when they Took a Level in Badass at the end of the movie?" Then they re-added the example, before removing it again with the exact same edit reason.
openQuestionable Examples on "Unbuilt Tropes"
Found this here on https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UnbuiltTrope/Literature
"A Confederacy of Dunces: Though written in the 1960s and published in 1981, John Kennedy Toole's masterpiece unbuilds the crackpot ideas and philosophies that emerged from the Internet, and the kind of people who promote them. Ignatius is a predecessor of those very crackpots: he promotes the idea of returning to feudalism and conservatism, predating the modern "Dark Enlightenment" movement, but is a lazy slob who leaches off his mother and spends his time watching cartoons and movies just to complain about their "degeneracy". And it's all but stated he engages in pseudo-intellectual nonsense just to stick it to his liberal activist girlfriend."
The thing is, I just feel uncomfortable about finding some Unbuilt Trope example of something that exists in real-life and not just in the world of tropes and conventions (in fact, the entry explicitly states it is referring to something in real life). It's like saying that so-and-so shows an Unbuilt example of communism or any other real-life theories and movements with real life impact.
To further build upon questionable examples purporting to have found Unbuilt examples of real life movement, here's some other entries on just that page itself:
"The Moviegoer has a series of insightful and utter deconstructive extrapolations about the flaws of 60's counter culture but the book was published in 1961, well ahead of the popular outbreak of what he was describing."
"A good forty years or so before the concept of The Man began to take root in the public consciousness, it is discussed without being named in the 1922 novel One of Ours. Progressive young Gladys takes a moment to ruminate on how protagonist Claude Wheeler's asshole brother Bayliss is one of the type of people who run the world.
— “She believed that all things which might make the world beautiful—love and kindness, leisure and art—were shut up in prison, and that successful men like Bayliss Wheeler held the keys.” "
(I don't even think this is an example of Unbuilt Trope)
open Is there a way to change the formatting on mobile?
Just today, the formatting in the forums on mobile has changed strangely for me. Is there an option to change the formatting like that? I’m not sure if I accidentally changed it myself or not.
openCan I add a trope? Live Action TV
To the B5 page, Ceremonies of Light and Dark. I noticed they had missed something for Continuity Nod, but tbh, after my year-long tempban, I'm a bit hesitant in even any minor infraction. Like, you know... not knowing proper edits. Not the wording, per se, but the text itself. What do I do? Maybe do I post here to ask you guys for help in the final product?
openEgregious Unintentionally Sympathetic example? Western Animation
- Applejack in "Hearthbreakers". The whole episode is supposed to be about her learning that she was being too closed minded about Pinkie's family and their Hearth Warming traditions, to the point where even her own family worn her that she shouldn't be interfering. However this glosses over the fact that the Pie family can easily be accused of the exact same thing, seeming to expect the Apples to follow their traditions without question and never allowing an alternative point of view. In fact, Applejack was the only one who did try and embrace the other's way, forcing herself to eat their rock soup when the rest of her family only complained.
This reads like a disguised Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry. It dosen't even tell us how Applejack ends up being sympathetic, just that everyone else around her isn't.
openThe Last of Us Part II questions
The Last of Us Part II has attracted a lot of controversy as mentioned here
. I have questions about the character Abby who is at the center of this controversy.
- Karma Houdini: She ultimately gets away with brutally murdering Joel, as Ellie opts to spare her to end the Cycle of Revenge. Of course, she still loses a lot of her friends at Ellie's hands as a consequence of what she did.
- Villain Protagonist: Arguably given the Black-and-Gray Morality of the setting, but you basically play as Joel's murderer for significant parts of the story. Of course, part of that story involves her having a Heel Realization of sorts that eventually leads her to give up her pursuit of Ellie.
- Designated Hero: Abby, her role in the game was done to humanise her as an antagonist; showing that she had a sympathetic reason to kill Joel and prove that his death changed nothing for her. However, players already saw her as beyond redemption for killing Joel since he was a beloved character from the first game. Ellie sparing her after killing so many people wasn't seen as the message it was intended to be, it was instead seen as Abby getting away with her crimes while Ellie loses everything in the process.
- Fourth Wall Myopia: Arguably part of why Abby is seen as unsympathetic by many players. We've played as Joel in the first game and are thus aware of the complexities of his character, and the understandable (albeit selfish) reasons why he killed the Fireflies to save Ellie. From Abby's perspective, however, he'd just be an unrepentant murderer as she only knows that he killed someone she cared about in cold blood. Many see Abby killing Joel as her crossing the Moral Event Horizon, but the reality is that she wouldn't be aware of Joel as a person unlike the player.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: One of the biggest criticisms the game faces is that, despite its numerous efforts to the contrary, Abby is stunningly unlikable and unsympathetic. While just about everybody understands why she would want to kill Joel, the fact that she actually goes through with it, the insanely vicious and sadistic manner she does it in, and her overall mean and ruthless personality destroys a lot of the sympathy the player may feel for her. It also really doesn't help that she basically gets away scot-free at the end, while her friends all suffer Ellie's wrath and Ellie herself ends the game with her life in ruins.
Karma Houdini seems to argue with itself saying they lost friends as karma. Villain Protagonist says it’s arguable and notes she makes an effort to repent. Designated Hero seems to clash with how Ellie and the game treats her as a villain and is redundant with Unintentionally Unsympathetic. Fourth Wall Myopia and Unintentionally Unsympathetic seem to disagree and I question UU since that’s why she’s the villain who gets better of because the repent for those traits (not denying she’s UU but was written it comes of as combining about intentionally dark stuff). Thoughts on these entries? I asked complaining cleanup but haven’t heard back.
I also have a question about Misaimed Fandom, does it count if fans wanted to kill Abby despite the point of the work was to show otherwise (the downer ending was the result of trying to do so)? Does it apply when there are legitimate reason for it (eg. Broken Aesop, Designated Villain, Strawman Has a Point), or only when it goes past what those reasons would justify?
openProblem Troper
Rtkh 68 has made some very complain-y and shoehorned edits in regards to The Last of Us Part II, and have edit warred.
This entry on this
page, which I've deleted:
"Without the pesky necessity of asking the animators what they thought in the process. Leaks already hint that a lot of people were pointlessly and needlessly made very uncomfortable during a time where a game this nihilistic and depressing REALLY doesn't help with the current climate."
They called the whole game a Self-Insert Fic on the YMMV
page, and added "meanwhile the lead writer turns a scene into a Self-Insert Fic that makes us all cringe until our faces hurt" to the Laconic page.
The Tear Jerker
page has several problematic edits, including edit warring. First all they added was "RIP Ellie and Joel" which is a ZCE and incorrect regardless. It was deleted and they re-added it with "RIP Ellie and Joel, died to a golf club." This was also deleted and they re-added it again with "Rest in Peace Joel, Murdered with a golf-club for wokepoints." This was deleted, and their final re-addition was "Rest in Peace Joel, Murdered with a golf-club for wokepoints." Note these edits were made prior to the game's official release.
The Tear Jerker page also has this entry: "the fact this absolute joke of a game was hailed as a 10/10 GOTY masterpiece by all the official review sources. Metacritic tells the real story."
openNo Title Western Animation
Am I allowed to remove WM Gs that I added myself? I have a WMG I made here that I'm not proud of anymore and I'd like to remove it from the page.
WMG in question.
◊
Proof that I originally made it.
◊
openDo these have any reason to be commented out?
I found a couple commented-out entries in the Yes, Your Grace character page. I could see why they would be commented out if they were zero-context examples, but they aren't as far as I can tell. Given the nature of the information in both cases, I'm getting the impression somone used the commenting out as some sort of spoiler markup. Is it okay to uncomment these?
(Ivo)
- "Well Done, Son" Guy: The good ending reveals that he never meant to kill his father, and actually wanted to win his approval.
(Beyran)
- Good All Along: While he has a Dark and Troubled Past as a highwayman, Eryk's desperate promise of Lorsulia's hand in marriage inspired Beyran to better himself and become a beacon of hope for his people, leading a group of refugees across the border into Davern. Unfortunately for him, Eryk sees him as an invading warlord and seeks to rally the nobles to oppose him
openNot a Clueless Aesop? Western Animation
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"
- Clueless Aesop: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically asks Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a Double Aesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
This seems more like a Broken Aesop, since Clueless Aesop is when a show fumbles in teaching harsh subject matter. Pretty sure "listen to your friends" isn't controversial. It also just seems like it's arguing with itself with the Double Aesop paragraph.
Also posted this here
, but got no response.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openAbout the High-Functioning Autism page
For some reason, the Useful Notes page on autism is called High-Functioning Autism.
This is weird, because the page is about the whole spectrum, not high-functioning autism in particular.
Additionally, many autistic people disagree with the use of the terms "high-functioning" and "low-functioning", because it carries Unfortunate Implications. For example, calling someone "high-functioning" implies that they should be able to adapt to society and act "normally" (read: like a neurotypical/non-autistic person), and that if they have difficulties due to their autism, it's a failing on their part (imagine someone saying "You should be able to handle this, you're high-functioning!). It also dehumanizes low-functioning people and suggests that they're "lesser" compared to the higher-functioning ones.
The preferred terminology is "support needs" (e.g. "low support needs" instead of "high-functioning) since it acknowledges that even people with milder autism may occasionally require support and accommodations, while not belittling those who do have more needs.
Here's an image that kinda explains it
◊, and here's a somewhat more in-depth article
.
So, how about swapping the current title and the redirect, Autism? And maybe add a section explaining why functioning labels are bad (I'd do it myself, but a. the page is locked, and b. it feels weird adding that when the page's title uses functioning labels).
Edited by ZuxtronopenSuspicious troper
Throwaway 219 seems to have spent all of their edits removing "negative" tropes from The Last of Us Part II. Normally, that wouldn't be a huge deal, but the account was first active only 4 days ago, and the name itself sounds suspicious. I think he might be a ban evader.
openRanma 1/2 entry that has natter that seems to invalidate the whole entry
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FigureItOutYourself
Normally I would just cut the natter but it seems the whole entry is invalid. Can A Kind Ranma fan help me out?
Edited by AegisPopenBroken Aesop removal?
This was deleted from The Last of Us Part II by Throwaway219 without explanation.
- Broken Aesop: The game's central theme of the cycle of revenge is concluded when Ellie, at the last possible moment, convinces herself to spare Abby instead of giving into her desire for revenge. While intended as a touching moment, it falls apart because Ellie has through to this point killed far more people in the forms of mooks the player has been fighting, none of whom have the personal reason for her to kill like with Abby, outside of the few instances where it’s an act of self defense. As a result, Ellie's abandonment of her quest for revenge at the literal last possible moment comes off as a case of complete Moral Dissonance. In addition, Abby completely breaks the theme of the cycle of revenge by managing to actually succeed in killing Joel. Despite not feeling any better for doing so, and subsequently losing several friends due to Ellie's rampage, she ultimately escapes her conflict with Ellie in one piece (her injuries from her ultimately unrelated battles with the Rattlers and Seraphites not withstanding, in fact Ellie being there actually saves her from them) while Ellie loses her fingers and thus her last connection to Joel in their Final Battle. It ends up coming across as Ellie being punished for attempting the same thing Abby did to her in the first place, while Abby manages to effectively escape any personal consequences for her actions. At the end of the day, she managed to achieve her vengeance and start a new life for herself, while Ellie's life ends up ruined despite actually ending the cycle herself.
Throwaway219 has already been brought up
for suspect deletions. I PM's then asking to explain the deletion but haven't heard back. I feel it could be reworked to be less wordy and complainy but I don't see anything objectively wrong with the entry warranting deletion. Should this be added back?
openIs Barry Allen a Designated Hero? Print Comic
Barry Allen has earned himself quite the lengthy entry at the comic book section of Designated Hero. It reads:
"The Flash: Barry Allen, the Silver Age incarnation of the character, has largely became this upon being brought back and pushed as the main Flash.
- Upon returning, he created the Flashpoint incident while trying to undo the meddling of his arch-enemy, Eobard Thawne/Reverse-Flash, who had altered Barry's past to give him an angstier backstory involving his mother getting murdered. However, rather than work with other heroes who are experts on this kind of thing, like Booster Gold or even his own former protege and Superior Successor Wally West (who unlike Barry, could run through time-and-space unaided and understood their powers on a much greater level), he did this by himself, resulting in a distorted Darker and Edgier timeline. While his motivations were sympathetic, the sheer idiocy of his blunder and how easily it could have been avoided, especially as he was warned prior during the Prelude to Flashpoint about what was going to happen and did it anyway.
- When he realised what he did and undid it, the result still didn't fix his mistake, resulting in a new timeline that was still Darker and Edgier, only everyone was also Younger and Hipper on top; while Barry's life in this new timeline wasn't bad, his friends were made miserable with both marriages and people erased, including Wally West, Wally's kids, and also Jay Garrick, Jesse Chambers, and the rest of the Flash Family. Though all of this was because Executive Meddling was in play (co-publisher Dan DiDio wanted the rest of the Flash family erased due to his personal dislike of Wally West and his belief that the franchise should be simpler, as well as his preference for Darker and Edgier stories and belief that True Art Is Angsty), it essentially meant that in-universe, Barry was personally responsible for erasing his nephew and family from existence, essentially killing them, while making everyone else he knew miserable and lonely. Meanwhile, Barry in this new timeline? He was a young, happy single with a cute Adorkable girlfriend, largely beloved by his city, with nobody knowing or remembering what he did.
- The Rebirth era didn't help with this matter, even after Wally West returns. During a team-up with Batman, he discovered Wally wasn't the only forgotten speedster when he meets Jay Garrick in the Speed Force. Rather than working tirelessly to save Jay, as you would expect a hero like Barry to do, he seemingly forgets about it to instead focus on other stuff. Then, Wally has his memory of his kids restored to him, and he calls Barry out on not even informing him about other trapped speedsters; he claims he was working with Batman to investigate it off-panel, but they were clearly not sparing much time looking into this, which could have been resolved by informing Wally, who not only wasn't busy with anything thanks to having his life erased, and also understands the Speed Force to a much greater extent than Barry and would be better suited into looking into it. Then, after the two are manipulated by Hunter Zolomon, Wally has a breakdown over the memory of his kids, so Barry sends him to a mental health facility where he never visits him, trusting instead that the facility can help him. It doesn't. Meanwhile, after sending Wally away, Barry could take this as an indication he should put more focus into finding the lost speedsters, but instead, he starts a different investigation into the "Other Forces", something he could have left up to his new ally, Commander Cold while he continued searching for Jay, Jesse, and Max. While his lack of focus on this could be chalked up to not remembering the other speedsters, it still looks callous of him to know people are suffering and to do nothing, even when told these people are his family."
Okay, I gotta ask: is this valid? I know that some people still have grievances towards Barry even after the end of Comic Book/Flashpoint and I do admit that I don't have the best knowledge on Barry's history, but this entry is so long and descriptive that it comes off as opinionated writing. What do we do with this?
Edited by MasterHeroopenAdditions to a Music Trope Category - Heavy Mithril & Filk Music
Hello! I'm wondering what the rules are about adding examples to a trope? I know of a few bands/recordings that might be suited to be added to the Heavy Mithril category (ie. Heather Alexander's folk rock band Phoenyx,) and a few that are suited to the Filk category, which are not listed; and I also can add some information to some of the existing listings (ie. the song Julia Ecklar is best known for.) What are the criteria to determine if something is worthy of adding?
Also, I dabble in both genres myself; would it be rude to add my own stuff if I'm realistic about it? It's not very well known, but it does exist.
Thanks in advance!
openIs there a thread for adding/removing things from YMMV?
No-Damage Run has the YMMV banner (possibly because it's a subtrope of Self-Imposed Challenge), but all of the on-page examples are objective rewards that games have for completing some part of them without getting hit, and only 71 of its 594 wicks (~12%) are on YMMV pages. Is there a long-term projects thread I can take it to (like with Trivia pages), or does it need to go on Tropes Needing TRS?
openQuestionable entry on Non-Gameplay Elimination Live Action TV
I was browsing Non-Gameplay Elimination when I came upon this entry:
- On Ego Trip: The White Rapper, contestants would go through a number of challenges to prove themselves as the best rapper of the bunch, however, many challenges really had nothing to do with their skills as a rapper, but were physical challenges built around humiliating them. The most talented rapper of the first season, Dasit, quit the very first episode (announcing his quitting via rap, actually, and doing so very stylishly) because he knew he was too good for the show. Which is actually true.
Am I the only one who thinks this entry seems highly critical of the show and biased towards Dasit?
Also, I looked up the show on The Other Wiki out of curiosity. While their accuracy is usually called into question, it seems to contradict the above information. (That's the only reason I don't think Dasit wrote the entry himself.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen the show, so I can't judge one way or the other.
openWhat An Idiot: Terminator
Tropers.Cieloazul created WhatAnIdiot.Terminator yesterday and immediately began adding dozens upon dozens of "examples". Most of these examples seem to be personal cases of Fridge Logic (for example: "Skynet should have sent multiple Termintors", "Sarah shouldn't have told the police/hospital about the future", "The T-1000 should have used its shapeshifting more", etc, etc.). If you look at the original edits, he or she added a LOT of these nitpicks as examples of What An Idiot.
Being somewhat versed in the lore of the Terminator franchise myself, I took a chainsaw to a large number of these examples because some of them are even explained in the movies. (For example, it's explicitly stated in the second film that Sarah told the police about the crushed robot from the first film, only for Cyberdyne to cover up its discovery.) I thus deleted a large number of these "examples".
I addition to adding more for the rest of the Terminator films this morning, Cieloazul also readded one of the original ones I deleted (regarding the first chase scene in Dark Fate, where Grace throws metal bars at the Terminator).
Truth be told, I honestly think it's more appropriate to delete most (if not all) of the examples on the page, as most of these are examples of "narrative convenience" and not really What An Idiot. For example, Cieloazul tried to list EVERY SINGLE MOVIE for only having one Terminator sent back to one time period at a time, even though the Terminator Twosome trope is literally the basis of the entire franchise.
(NOTE: I brought up this concern on the Discussion page yesterday, and Cieloazul has thus far completely ignored it.)
Edited by NubianSatyress

Over time, the Characters.Dragalia Lost subpages seem to have gradually grown to include more and more character stats on them. As of now, each character has listed:
I really think most of these are out of place for the site; with the abilities and skills turning into Walkthrough Mode. And the text takes a bunch of space, getting much worse if a character has multiple versions to document (see Characters.Dragalia Lost Main Characters for the worst of it).
I'm tempted to just take a chainsaw to this stuff myself, but I'm worried that it'll just be put back and head toward an edit war. And I could use some input on what stays and what goes.