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openAbout Batman Print Comic
Do you think that we should add The Woobie subpage for the Batman franchise? I mean, Gotham is very unforgiving place that is filled with harsh environment and dastardly villains. Batman himself is the Iron Woobie as though he lost his parents to an killer, yet he still presses on and become a Hope Bringer to Gotham. Likewise, Barbara Gordon and Damian Wayne should count as well; as the former was humiliated and crippled by The Joker just to torture her father, and the latter was raised by a mother who is mentally unstable, and a grandfather who is a genocidal maniac. Cassandra Cain, Jim Gordon, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and even Jason Todd are good examples. Heck, it even extends to some in Batman's Rogue Gallery, especially Harley Quinn and Mr. Freeze. The latter is in the tropes, Even Evil Has Loved Ones and Tragic Villain for a reason.
Edited by AlexHoskinsopenSelf Demonstrating Yoshikage Kira is gone?
I was trying to find the Self Demonstrating character page for Yoshikage Kira, and it's not here anymore. I don't know why it got deleted, but I like to joke that Kira himself actually blew up the article. Anyways, is it possible to rewrite the article and post it after it got deleted?
openGender neutral writing in trope descriptions
I noticed that the description for Widely-Spaced Jail Bars uses male pronouns, even though you could easily replace them with gender neutral ones. For some reason, I thought that descriptions should be gender neutral, unless the trope itself relates to a specific gender.
However, I couldn't find a rule that states that descriptions should refrain from using gendered pronouns, and some other pages (such as Frozen Face or This Way to Certain Death) use male pronouns as well.
Is there a rule regarding the use of gendered pronouns in descriptions?
Edited by PowogaopenJigsaw puzzles?
What medium do jigsaw puzzles fall into? I ask because I had one when I was younger which had an image I think could qualify for Epic Fail.
The image depicted a cartoonish miniature golf course. One of the holes is labeled the Beginner's Hole and the hole itself is maybe five times the size of a normal one. Standing next to the hole is a guy saying "I missed."
open Can someone fix the Tofie page? Music
The page for electronic musician Tofie is a complete mess. Half the tropes are misused and are seemingly only there for the creator to gush over how attractive they think the artist is, one of them is a ZCE, and the page isn't even indexed. I'd do it myself, but I have no idea where to start.
Edited by PhysicalStaminaopenDo crossdressers count for LGBT Fanbase?
I was originally just going to ask in Is This An Example?, but the more I thought about it the more complicated it seemed, possibly too complicated for the relatively simple answers in Is This An Example?. I was just clicking the button for Random Media and wiki walking, when I came across the YMMV page of Blend-S and saw this and now I have several questions.
- LGBT Fanbase: Hideri is well-liked by several fans who were also crossdressing enthusiasts.
Is Hideri a crossdresser or trans? I've never seen Blend-S, so I don't know myself.
If Hideri is just a crossdresser, would crossdressing enthusiasts count for LGBT Fanbase?
If Hideri is a crossdresser but has a significant number of trans fans, shouldn't the entry be reworded to about trans fans?
The entry just seems to me like it's trying to conflate crossdressing enthusiasts and trans people, but I don't know for sure.
Edited by pikachu17openRequesting New Addition to She-Ra and the Princesses of Power Fanfic Page Western Animation
I'd like to suggest adding Don't Go
to the She-Ra and the Princesses of Power Fanic Recs page, but can't do so myself without it being vouched for by a third party.
It was written by Annacharlier — who is apparently Noelle Stevenson herself — and bridges some of the narrative gaps in Episode 5
and Episode 6
of Season 5 (consider that a spoiler warning if you haven't watched the show yet). Regardless of whether or not Noelle herself wrote it, it's very well-written and emotional — if a bit more mature than the show itself is.
It also comes with some Adora-ble artwork
apparently also done by Noelle herself.
openUser changing many images without discussion
Matuta 930 has been changing a lot images without discussion. As far as I know, they've changed the images on the following pages:
- Multiple Head Case (which was later reverted)
- Lovable Lizard
- Barefoot Sage (also later reverted)
- BodyHorror.Western Animation
- Was Once a Man
- Crazy Homeless People (once again, later reverted)
- Cats Are Mean
- For Halloween, I Am Going as Myself
- BodyHorror.Film
- TearJerker.Beastars
- Heartwarming.El Chavo Del Ocho
- Morphic Resonance (yet again, later reverted)
- NightmareFuel.Alien
- Various images on many character pages (although some of them do actually seem like improvements)
They've also added images without discussion on Funny.Akira, Polly Wants a Microphone and Amplified Animal Aptitude (while the first is fine, the latter two are JAFAAC).
Edited by jandn2014openEditor with grammar and ZCE problems
(Been a while since I've used that subject line.) Ghngjnty
is the culprit this time; their grasp of spelling, grammar, and punctuation is tenuous at best. Just looking at their edits since the beginning of June, we have such errors as "espically" for "especially", "appearent" for "apparent", "than" for "then", "embarressed" for "embarrassed"... and, going back a few months to February, the self-demonstrating "unintentionable gibberious" for "unintelligible gibberish" (ironically, replacing the correct phrase in the process). They also have problems with zero-context examples and example indentation (see their edit to NightmareFuel.LA Noire for an example of both of those).
I've sent notifiers for grammar, ZCEs, and indentation, but these problems are so chronic and pervasive that I wondered if further action might be needed.
openClueless Aesop misuse?
After removing this from Clueless Aesop per cleanup
this was added back:
- * ''Literature/HarryPotter'': According to Creator/JKRowling, the idea behind the House Elves and Hermione's attempts to help them was to satirize WhiteMansBurden-esque activism, where well-meaning people from a more privileged group are so determined to help others in a less privileged group that they ignore what the people they're trying to help actually want. Unfortunately, this lesson is impossible to get across to the readers because House Elves' culture is completely surrounded by being happy that wizards use them as ''[[SlaveRace slave labor]]''. [[ValuesDissonance Not only is this never depicted as wrong by the books]], Hermione [[InformedWrongness is treated as an annoying tree-hugging hippie by both the narrative and the other characters]] simply for being the only one who is horrified by the fact that wizards are completely fine with slavery. It also makes an argument that [[HappinessInSlavery House Elves enjoy serving Wizards]] and [[SlaveLiberation abhor the attempts to free them]]. This ignores the fact that they're psychologically conditioned to [[SelfHarm physically punish themselves severely]] if they fail a task or disobey their masters, [[MoreThanMindControl clearly indicating they are not in control of their own minds]]; in turn, this [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation strongly implies]] that their "enjoyment" of servitude is just as forced. The closest the series comes close to decrying the treatment of House Elves is that [[GoldenMeanFallacy it's wrong to enslave them if you're an abusive master, not that it's wrong to enslave them at all]], with Hermione's CharacterDevelopment over it making her gradually become more reformist and accept that most House-Elves value better treatment from their slave masters more than actual freedom. And even that clumsy message loses what little water it holds when ''Deathly Hallows'' reveals that even a loving and well-meaning master can ''accidentally'' lock an elf in an infinite loop of failure and self-punishment by incautiously giving them an impossible order. As a result, the subplot came off as a huge mockery of genuine activism to many readers, especially to ones who were introduced to ''Harry Potter'' after the series wrapped up. It's not helped by the fact that many real-life slaves in the past were portrayed by their owners as being happy in slavery as an excuse to justify owning slaves.
I removed it as Clueless Aesop is not just an Aesop poorly done, but an Aesop poorly done because:
- It's a subject more mature or complex than the work can effectively portray (not the case given how the series had matured by this point).
- The fantastical parts undermine the real world applicability (not the case as the problems are the real world comparisons).
Also most of the issues causing it are YMMV which shouldn't apply for a non-YMMV trope. This issue is already covered under Strawman Has a Point and Unfortunate Implications. I intend to cut unless anyone objects.
openWhy is Sailor Earth not YMMV?
Sailor Earth is about fans of a work creating Original Characters that follow a theming convention in the work itself. Creating Original Characters based off a work is an Audience Reaction. However, despite this, the trope is not YMMV, and is listed as a trope on many work pages.
openPrerelease "He Panned It, Now He Suck"
I came across an entry for He Panned It Now He Sucks on the YMMV page for Bad Movie Beatdown, describing a tweet made by Mathew where he brings up how he's not looking forward to Zack Snyder's Justice League.
The question I want to ask is, is this okay? The film's not even out yet, so is listing an entry like this premature? It's not even something he brought up on the show itself (Bad Movie Beatdown's been on a massive hiatus for the last few years).
Edited by chasemaddiganopenTierInducedScrappy Edit War Videogame
A while ago, I added an entry to the YMMV page for Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn regarding Tier Induced Scrappy for a Crutch Character named Sothe.
Around March 4th troper Slimeshady adjusted the entry to be arguing with itself by making it talk about how he "used to be seen as one" and is now defending the character. I will put it under a note so it doesn't fill too much of this space out note Sothe used to be this. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). In more recent times though as Jagens are looked at much more favorably by the community, the receptions to Sothe has changed, as Sothe is so indispensable in Part 1 and the DB's Part 3 missions (i.e. the hardest parts of the game), and that by the time he loses his usefulness, it doesn't really matter when you have so many other overpowered units to pick up the slack. Tier lists covering the game as a whole will generally put Sothe in the top tier as he is just so good in Part 1, and without him the early Part 1 maps would be insanely difficult on Hard/Maniac, while when the other Crutch Characters join in later Part 1 he still stands out for his great movement, strong 1-2 range with forged Knives, and all the thieving duties he can do. That said there are still certainly some people who don't care about Sothe's Part 1 contributions and remain resentful of how irredeemably bad Sothe gets in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit.
I adjusted the entry to be back to how it was before, but I did adjust it a bit to include his usefulness in part 1 so point out where the issues people had with him gameplay wise were. As it was before, it was arguing with itself since the entry said he was a bad unit but not anymore despite nothing changing about the game. Again I have put this entry under a note to save space. note Sothe, primarily after Part 1. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). As to make this worse, Sothe is the only character who doesn't benefit from the bonus stats from the previous game because unlike others who instead gain a flat bonus for any capped stats, Sothe, if data is transferred, instead gains whatever his stats were from the previous game which means its possible he'll be even worse since his max stats in the previous game are only marginally higher than his bases here. His use in Part 1 is good but due to how awkward Part 1 is, using him to even the odds is more of a long term detriment to your units since he can soak up precious experience.
As of 6/14, they readded their entry, added a section under Vindicated by History note Sothe's perception as a unit. With how unsalvagebly terrible he ends up in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit for the entire game that can't even die without triggering a Game Over until the Part 4 endgame, for a long time Sothe got a lot of hatred from fans for being an "EXP THIEF!" that "stole" EXP from the rest of the Dawn Brigade in Part 1, only to become The Load in Part 4 no matter how much investment he got. In Japan he was even a Memetic Loser for his insistence on being Micaiah's "protector" up to the end of the game, while becoming so ineffectual in combat and was more someone who needed the protection himself. However more and more players started realizing that the endgame and max level stats are only a microcosm of an entire game, and that a unit's contribution in the entire game before that very much matters, with it being especially a big plus if that unit can provide that contribution without requiring significant resources. So Sothe, being such a vital unit for Part 1 (especially the first half) and still a useful offensive unit in the Dawn Brigade's Part 3 chapters with his Beastkiller, became much more highly regarded and shot up to the high or even top tier of unit tier lists, and he also got big props for providing that big contribution in what are generally considered RD's hardest maps (while most of Part 4 is generally considered pretty easy, as you have the Game-Breaker Laguz Royals, a third tier near-invincible Ike, and a bunch of other trained up third tier units, so Sothe being bad at that point doesn't really matter). Sothe additionally gets sympathy from fans for his boss conversations with the likes of Ike, Dhegnisea, and Sephiran, where he acknowledges that he is a normal man amongst gods that really doesn't belong, but he'll still try to fight for Micaiah and the little things even if he is hopelessly outclassed. Sothe nowadays is often regarded as one of the best executed "Jagens" in the series, as he fulfills his role of really helping the player during Early Game Hell and other difficult maps, while actually falling off hard later in the game like Jagens are supposed to unlike many other Jagens who remain strong late into the game or are flatout Game Breakers up to the very end., and added this message as the reason: "Not using Sothe in Part 1 becaus he "steals EXP' is a pitfall that makes Part 1 harder than it actually is, use him.".
This is a matter of debate yes and I should have clarified why I adjusted it previously, that was my fault. However this is becoming an argument at this point. I will message this about this but the entries are written in such a way that they come across as very defensive about this unit and its becoming an edit war at this point.
openAgenda edit?
On In Touch with His Feminine Side, Bulsara 413 has just changed instances of "tomgirl" to "janegirl", though page history shows this is something several users disagree on. Is this agenda-based editing? I thought that the term was considered acceptable, since Christine Chandler, a transwoman, used it to describe herself at one point. Thank you.
Edited by Piterpicheropen"Common Knowledge" issue?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 5 E 26 The Cutie Remark Part 2
- Common Knowledge: Many of Starlight's detractors criticize her Freudian Excuse, and also compare her to Apple Bloom and Moondancer in terms of cutie marks and losing friends and how they didn't resort to villainy in their situation. What they forget when comparing Starlight to these two is that Starlight hated cutie marks and believed they created differences among ponies, thus driving them apart because they don't have connection, and she believed to have lost Sunburst as a friend as a result of differences created between them. Given that she was a filly at the time, was confirmed to have isolated herself from other ponies out of fear that cutie marks would break new friendships made, it was clear her villainy rose from wallowing in victim-hood and self-pity over her situation which resulted in her blaming cutie marks as the result of friendships that fail in general. Both Apple Bloom and Moondancer are quite different from Starlight, as Apple Bloom wanted her cutie mark badly and Moondancer thought that friendship wasn't for her, and they both didn't become evil because they didn't wallow like Starlight did.
This was deleted as "Misuse and another attempt to complain about Starlight's detractors". I assume the misuse is due to this trope applying to audiences missing things to the point of making factually incorrect factually incorrect beliefs/claims about the work, which this isn't. But there some issues with the comparisons I was thinking about for awhile:
- Moondancer was Twilight's age, young adult, so could be expect to handle it better than Starlight who was a child at the time.
- Apple Bloom was lucky enough to stumble across new friends before Starlight's issues could set in. "On Your Marks" shows AB begin to descend into such when she thinks she's loosing her friends due to their cutie marks ("Oh, hello girls."). Starlight outright says "Not everypony's lucky enough to get her cutie mark at the same time as her friends!" The reason Starlight was supposed to be deserving of forgiveness/redemtion is because the only difference between her and Twilight was Twilight was lucky enough to have a destiny that gave her friends.
I fault the episode for failing to portray or emphasize those points, and agree with cutting shoehorned/misused tropes for such. But I want to be sure we're not quashing legitimate points counterarguments (there's a reason Starlight's a Base-Breaking Character not The Scrappy, which was brought to cleanup) if there's an appropriate trope/place for them. And I was planning on adding some criticism of complaints (which fall under factually incorrect) under Common Knowledge, I want to double-check what the line is for this trope since it came up.
My questions are:
- Do the points brought up fit Common Knowledge and if not why are they objective misuse (only pertain to factual error?). Are the point's I raised objective enough?
- What other tropes or place might those things fall under?
openIntentionnal Special Effect Failure
Should an animation that's intentionnaly bad have Special Effect Failure ? The YMMV page of Mario Pissing have Special Effect Failure for the fact that the noise is not realistic but considering the animation itself, it's one of the less worst thing there is. In general, should a work have Special Effect Failure even if the effect is meant to be bad ?
openDebating on whether this is a good idea here...
So, the Screamer Prank has an actual horror image built into the laconic via a "note". I'm wondering if this really should be here, I get it's in the vein of the trope, but to me it honestly reads as a really iffy idea for a laconic page to have. This has been added back in 2017, and I get it's supposed to be a bit of a Schmuck Bait kind of joke, but I was also wondering if it's almost "too far" of a joke for the wiki in itself.
openIs Cross-wicking required?
Endark Culi created a page for Tokyo Tattoo Girls, which itself has sufficient content. However, they only made 3 cross-wicks. Two of them are indexing and one trope was cross-wicked.
I was going to send a notifier, but realized I didn't know if this was actually against the rules.

So recently I found a bad example in The Glass House like this:
- Financial Abuse: This is basically the plot. The siblings Ruby and Rhett were adopted by Erin and Terry, the best friends of their dead parents... only to be targeted for death so the "new parents" can collect the kids's HUGE inheritance. Not to mention Terry makes passes at Ruby, who's squicked outta her mind. Then, Ruby finds out that both Terry and Erin staged the parents's deaths. She then goes Plucky Girl, attempts to fight back against Terry and protect Rhett, and ultimately kills Terry (Erin had been Driven to Suicide out of guilt a while before). Then, the kids are taken in by their uncle.
The First part is kinda related to this part but then the next part shows what happened next which has nothing to do with this trope. Should I remove the bottom?