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Ask the Tropers:
openForum thread going off-topic
I'm worried that the Marvel Cinematic Universe forum thread is starting to be filled with posts that don't have anything to do with the MCU itself.
I had sent a holler for this post
, as it was talking about DC Comics stuff instead of Marvel.
openTLP laconics
A little while ago, I came to ATT to get help because Lord Gro was adamant that the slightly-ambiguous wordering of my laconic meant the TLP itself wasn't ready to launch, despite people pointing out that TLP laconics aren't even used after launching (meaning their sole purpose is to exist on the TLP itself and most people only use them because a bug forces them to
).
I thought it was all resolved, but now they're complaining about the laconic on One Mistake, Endless Mockery
. Now, nothing big has really happened yet, and I'll fully admit that I have a bad habit of sparking bigger arguments than I'd really like, but I'm bringing this up now to bring attention to the subject, as it seems they feel that TLP Laconics are real laconics and need to be as carefully crafted as actual laconics are, and this is the second time they've started bickering over it.
Hell, I'll freely agree that the laconic it currently has isn't ideal- but the issue is over whether or not TLP laconics need this much attention despite that they don't launch with the trope itself, and the potential for this to turn into another big issue. I just want this to be handled and discussed without it turning into a flame war like the other debate did.
Edited by WarJay77openWayyyy too many empty lines (yes, pun intended)
Wayyyy has sorted examples in sevaral pages, which by itself is a great contribution to the wiki.
However, there's a major issue that comes along with this sorting, and it's that examples are now spaced out by empty lines. I replied them asking them not to add these lines, but they refused to do so, arguing that it makes the examples "easier to read". These spaces are making the trope pages too awkward-looking and large, and the fact the troper won't stop doing this comes off as disruptive.
openMemetic Loser misused (again)?
- Avatar Kuruk. He was a lazy Avatar who was more interested in flirting with girls, showing off, and playing pai sho than he was being the Avatar. He’d finally started to get serious and then got his wife’s face stolen by Koh and then died himself at the ripe old age of 33. Not helping matters is the fact that he’s Avatar Kyoshi’s, the Memetic Badass of the universe, predecessor. She spends most of her novel cleaning up his messes and even she doesn’t really respect him too much.
- Captain Phasma from the same movie also gets this. Pre-release materials set her up to be a mysterious chrome badass, but in the movie she ended up doing nothing but ordering stormtroopers around before she was easily captured by rebels and thrown down a garbage chute. She ended up being completely upstaged in popularity by Nines, a random stormtrooper who yelled "Traitor!" and beat the shit out of a lightsaber-wielding Finn with nothing but a stun baton. The Last Jedi didn't help her cred much since, after coming back with a vengeance, she got defeated in an anti climactic fight against both Finn and Rose (by using the oldest trick in the book, nonetheless) and seemingly falls to her death.
- Rogue One: Director Krennic. His character arc in the movie can be very accurately summed up as "Krennic gets yelled at by his superiors for two hours" or "Krennic has a very bad day". Even in-universe Darth Vader clearly sees him as an incompetent loser, an opinion rather well supported by Krennic showing up at Vader's home on Mustafar in the middle of the morning to bitch about a coworker (Tarkin).
- The Last Jedi: The MG-100 Star Fortress SF-17 bomber, whose only screentime in the movie has a wing of them getting blown up in the process of destroying a First Order Star Dreadnought; in particular, a single TIE Fighter crashing into one Star Fortress leads to a chain reaction that sends several of them up in flames. As a result, they're seen as worse flying coffins than TIE Fighters.
- Its director himself, Rian Johnson. A popular meme mocking his infamous writing-style is "If Rian Johnson Directed [...]" - where an iconic part from another film abruptly ends in an absurd Anti-Climax/Shocking Swerve.
- Avatar Kuruk. He was a lazy Avatar who was more interested in flirting with girls, showing off, and playing pai sho than he was being the Avatar. He’d finally started to get serious and then got his wife’s face stolen by Koh and then died himself at the ripe old age of 33. Not helping matters is the fact that he’s Avatar Kyoshi’s, the Memetic Badass of the universe, predecessor. She spends most of her novel cleaning up his messes and even she doesn’t really respect him too much.
Memetic Loser is about unfairly exaggerated loser reputations, this is all objective loserdom. Expect for Rain Johnson who's noted to be memetic, but I find applying it to a real life individual suspect of complaining. Cut? Does this trope warrant a cleanup thread yet?
openSelf-Pimping Webcomic
Very new account goliberalart
has only been making edits pertaining to the webcomic of the same name. Unsure if this is a problem, but it's certainly noticeable.
openNightmare Fuel Vanity Plate recreated without permission
See here. The page was cut back in 2017.
While I do think the page should be restored, not only was this without approval, but it's also.......not the way to do it. The namespaces are weird (no spaces between words, making the name look awkward and also causing it to use the generic background rather than the Nightmare Fuel background), most of the links (both potholes and links to videos) are gone, the image has a much bigger box to the sides of it and the page itself isn't even finished, with a note asking to help recreate everything.
Edited by KingofNightmaresopenFanFic/KyodainaSentaiManukeranger
So while I was indexing a different fic in Fanfics of the 2010s, I checked out Kyodaina Sentai Manukeranger because the work it was a fanfic of wasn't listed, and hoo boy...
- The namespace is miscapitalized
- There is no work summary, only "Needs Wiki Magic Love."
- What the fanfic is based off of isn't listed either
- The work link goes to some deviant art page for the fanfic and not the actual first chapter of the fic itself
- ZCEs out the wazoo
- A YMMV page with misused Ho Yay and a random out of place piece of trivia about the fanfic
Aaaaannnddd it was last edited two years ago. Help.
openCurb-Stomp Battles of Death Battle Web Original
It's come to recent attention that the Curb-Stomp Battle page for DEATH BATTLE! has a lot of issues. The page lists a lot of fights as examples, to the point that literally every episode from season six is listed. However, the entries seem to only focus on the post-fight analysis that determined the winner and not how the actual fight played out. The fight itself could be portrayed as pretty even, only for the analysis to point out the discrepancy between the two fighters.
Even if the hosts explain the fight was actually pretty close, those matches will still be listed because the victor had the advantage, which seems like misuse. I tried to clean up entries
that were listed as "downplayed", but they were simply added back
with slight alterations that the hosts were just explaining the loser's strengths. I think the page should focus on the fights themselves, and not rely solely on the post-fight wrap-up. At the very least, the page needs a clean-up.
open Mod revert on fanfic?
Can I get a mod revert on The Boy Without a Fairy? I had added an alternate link (no pun intended) to the story and revised the description slightly but SneakyHint's edit seems to have overlapped mine, and they added a bunch of ZCEs. I don' want to re-add it myself as that'd be an edit war.
EDIT: Nevermind, the ZC Es are gone now.
Edited by lalalei2001openDisgust Tropes definition and misuse
So, Disgust Tropes is meant to be about the emotion, but people are adding tropes like Bird-Poop Gag and Urine Trouble that are gross, but not to do with the emotion itself. Some do involve reactions from the characters, but it's not necessary. I know I could Always Edit It Myself, but it seems like a substantial problem.
openFranchiseOriginalSin.StarWars Film
I want to start this by saying that locking or cutting a page should be used for worst-case-scenario pages only.
I've been trying to fix up FranchiseOriginalSin.Star Wars, and I've found that the page has many, many issues regarding the examples listed. It, of course, suffers from Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, as most Star Wars Audience Reaction pages end up like. Now, this in itself is a pretty fixable situation, because it's very similar to Narm.Star Wars, which we successfully cleaned out. Yes, it took months, but it was a satisfying conclusion.
But the Narm page was different, because that had 1-3 sentence examples that resulted in a simple cleanup objective of "remove misuse". It was very simple to fix the page. But with this page? No, my objective was to shorten the examples instead of cutting them. But the more I go into the page, the more I realize that nearly every example is a violation of Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, and it's frustrating. Just like Example Indentation or Zero-Context Examples, complaining is a fair reason to remove a bad example.
So here's the "Ask" part: What should be done with the page? If it's undeniably hard to fix, and just about every example is a heavy violation of policy, what can be done to help? I was thinking of maybe locking it, but it sounds too obstructive. Cutting is also an option if the cleanup proves unmanageable, but it's barely on the table.
So, what does the rest of the wiki think about the page?
openCan't link videos to media source Videogame
I realized that the page for Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers didn't have video examples linked to it, but videos for Ret-Gone and Player Personality Quiz had examples from that same game anyway. On closer inspection I noticed that the name of the media source given by the videos on each of the trope pages is not completely the same as the title given by the media page. Is there anyway for me to fix this myself?
Edited by TheGrayShadowopenIs this an okay BrokenBase entry?
I was looking at the YMMV page for Monty Python's Life of Brian here
and after reading the Broken Base entry, I can't help but feel that there's something just a little off about it.
- Broken Base: This is a film that still remains controversial. Some people assume it's a parody of Jesus, who is actually just a very minor character in the film (and himself played completely straight). Others claim the film mocks Christianity, while it can also be interpreted as mocking religion or blindly fanatical followers in general, for that matter. In a sense it also spoofs the typically heavy handed and deadly serious Bible epics. Some very devout religious people condemn the film for being blasphemous without having seen it. Some religious people who did watch it act as if this movie doesn't mock Jesus, Christianity or religion at all, which is again not totally true either. There are several very outrageous heretical scenes that could easily offend people who take their faith too seriously, but religious people with a sense of humour can enjoy the film just fine. The movie is also more than just a shocking comedy. It raises excellent points about blindly following leaders, misinterpreting so-called signs and messages and not thinking for yourself.
I don't know, but it seems like the entry is going off-topic a little bit in trying to talk about every stance on the film, and the last two sentences don't seem relevant. Also, this:
- easily offend people who take their faith too seriously, but religious people with a sense of humour can enjoy the film just fine.
Seems needlessly insulting, bordering on breaking the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.
openContrasting Spelling and pronouncing
I was watching the official release of Beastars on Netflix, and one of the character's name is spell Rouis but is pronounced Louis. The page itself use Louis but should it be changed to Rouis despite how its pronounced?
Edited by WhirlRXopenI need help cleaning up these mess (SCP Foundation characters sheet) Web Original
Just to make it clear how bad it is, this is from Characters.SCP Foundation SC Ps 5000 To 5999
- And Then John Was a Zombie: In SCP-5000, The Foundation itself is the Monster of the Week.
- Alternate Universe: The SCP comes from either this, a previous iteration of the universe or the past before it was changed via Reset Button. In any case, the Foundation found no ties between the SCP and their still-living version of the employee that died inside the suit.
- Always Chaotic Evil: The cured Foundation personnel are unable to feel pain or sympathy and are nearly emotionless. The hidden dialogue hints that this is the natural state of the human race.
- Apocalyptic Log: The majority of the article features one, with data logs being the only thing still functioning from the SCP, that detail a Foundation employee's cross country trek in a world where the SCP Foundation declared war on humanity.
- Bittersweet Ending: Despite near-impossible odds, Pietro manages to reset the timeline at the cost of his own life. But since it's never revealed what the secret that caused the Foundation's Face–Heel Turn was there's no way to tell if it will happen again.
- Also since the Eldritch Abomination inside humanity's collective unconsciousness hasn't been stopped it's still able to continue its unknown goals. At least in the new timeline humanity may have a chance of stopping it without resorting to genocide as now they know what happened last time.
- Blue-and-Orange Morality: The SCP Foundation believe that the extermination of humanity is the right thing to do. Scant references imply that it's thanks to a discovery that humanity itself is abhorrent and anomalous. And if the revelation that a foreign entity gave emotions to humanity's collective unconscious in the past is correct, then humans as a whole are originally inclined to this kind of morality before the entity stepped in.
- Body Horror: Pietro tries to bury the corpse of a young boy, only for hundreds of worms with the child's face to burst out of it.
- Brown Note: Whatever the Foundation learned that made them declare war on humanity, it's something very dangerous for the uninitiated to learn. When an interrogated MTF member revealed it to his interrogators, it caused them to essentially be put in a state of perpetual screaming.
- Call-Back: To 2998. "Can't fit round pegs in square holes", can you?
- Clingy Costume: Pietro is forced to wear SCP-5000 throughout his entire trip. Not because he can't remove it but because it is keeping him as The Needless and invisible for his walk across the country in a world where humanity is getting systematically exterminated.
- Conditioned to Accept Horror: As his on-foot trek continues Pietro becomes more and more desensitized to the constant genocide happening around him. This doesn't help his self-image.
- Continuity Cavalcade: Over a dozen different SCPs get referenced in this article, mostly with reports explaining how the Foundation is unleashing them on humanity for maximum casualties. In addition, Pietro's goal, though he can't remember it, is putting SCP-055 in contact with SCP-579, the "square peg in round hole" scenario a couple of other articles reference.
- Curb-Stomp Battle: While the Foundation are eventually defeated by Pietro reseting the timelime their attack on humanity is an absolute slaughter. They easily destroy entire cities overnight, crush the GOC and Church of the Broken God's alliance and force the Serpent's Hand to abandon the universe.
- Death by Irony: Not literal death but the Foundation has their apocalypse reversed just like they had previously used a Reset Button to overwrite the apocalypses caused by all the other world-ending horrors.
- Eldritch Abomination: Late in his travels, Pietro comes across several Foundation soldiers fighting against a weird entity that resembles a human stretched across the sky. It is assumed to be the the foreign entity that invaded humanity's collective unconscious in the past and gave emotions to humanity as a whole for unknown reasons, and since the humanity that it controls is dying, it attempts to materialize itself to defeat the Foundation and to (perhaps ironically) defend the humanity that it controls at the time.
- Enemy Mine: The Global Occult Coalition and The Church of the Broken God are normally hated by the Foundation, but neither wanted humanity to be wiped out and occasionally cooperated as the biggest forces opposing the corrupted Foundation. Ultimately, it wasn't enough, with the GOC being wiped out and the Church crippled.
- The Extremist Was Right: After discovering a horrible secret regarding the truth behind humanity's collective unconscious, the Foundation ends up agreeing with SCP-682 that there is something inherently wrong with humanity...and deciding that eradicating humanity is the only logical step to spare them from this fate.
- Face–Heel Turn: The Foundation as a whole undergoes one of these after discovering something horrible.
- Feel No Pain: While conducting purges of uncorrupted SCP soldiers, the Foundation would test them by stabbing them. Most had no reaction, while those who did were promptly killed.
- One Foundation scientist claims that humanity as a whole is not supposed to feel pain.
- Foreshadowing: This line from the interrogated MTF member might seem nothing at first glance but it hints at what the Foundation of SCP-5000's universe learned. It is the same line SCP-682 expresses when talking about humanity
Samuel Ross: …disgusting.
- Heroic Sacrifice: Pietro manages to create a Reality-Breaking Paradox that restores the world, but in order to do so he has to jump into the pit containing SCP-579, dying on impact with the ground.
- Hoist by His Own Petard: Three of these occur. The Foundation, which was created to protect humanity from world-destroying horrors, end up exterminating the human race. But then Pietro combines SCP-055 and SCP-579 to create a Reset Button that restores the world just as the Foundation had previously used the same method to stop an Alien Invasion. Even better, in order to do it Pietro needed the aid of an advanced armour suit the Foundation itself had created.
- Living Statue: Eventually Pietro starts finding statues of SCP soldiers except they have blades for hands, a permanent grimace on their face, and ability like SCP-173. They turn out to be frighteningly effective in killing people too.
- Oh, Crap!: Pietro could only utter a "Fuck me" when the Foundation released a global message revealing their existence and their intent to exterminate mankind.
- The Purge: The first people the Foundation killed were those of its own membership that had not been hit by whatever "cured" them.
- Reset Button: As in SCP-2998, combining SCP-055 with SCP-579 accomplishes this.
- The Reveal: Hidden text in the last image implies that what the Foundation learned to make them want to exterminate humanity made them essentially see humanity the same way SCP-682 sees humanity.
- It gets better! The hidden dialogue in the blank space between the final journal entry and the footnotes and the hidden implications in the article depicts that in the past, a foreign entity entered humanity's collective unconscious and gave humanity the ability to feel emotions like empathy...emotions which humans aren't supposed to be able to experience at all.
- "Shaggy Dog" Story: Unfortunately even though Pietro eventually reached his goal humanity was essentially exterminated by this point, he is left with no answers, and he could only make SCP-055 come into contact with SCP-579 by dropping from a fatal height, causing him to die before his remains were transported to the main SCP universe.
- Luckily reading SCP-2998 makes it more of a Bittersweet Ending. It's implied that Pietro really did reset the timeline to save humanity.
- ...but then potentially Double Subverted when one realizes that, thanks to this timeline reset, whatever entity the alternate Foundation found within the collective unconscious and was trying to fight by exterminating humanity is still out there, and now there's nothing stopping it from pursuing whatever its goals are in granting humanity empathy. Though since the Foundation has SCP-5000 now they may be able to rediscover it.
- Technically Living Zombie: The "cured" Foundation members are still alive, but feel no pain or fear and refer to those who do as "live ones". It's implied that they sacrificed some core element of their humanity itself thanks to discovering it to be unnatural and repulsive since it is assumed that humans originally do not have emotions at all (or at least not certain ones such as empathy).
- Was Once a Man: The Foundation as a whole. They still look human but definitely aren't. Even the personifications of Death can't recognize them as humans anymore.
- You Have Outlived Your Usefulness: The first thing the newly insane Foundation does is execute most of its staff with gunfire.
Obvious mistake like bad Administrivia.Example Indentation In Trope Lists and ZCE aside, I think the problem is how this is more like a work's trope page despite being in a character sheet (even the header named after the article, not a character or faction or something). And as such it troping several characters at once (mostly Pietro Wilson and the altered Foundation, despite how they don't work together), and include plot/narrative tropes. Seriously, if it has proper summary I would just move this to its own work page. But no, all it has is link to article and trope list.
This isn't just one case (please check the page's history, as well as other character sheets'), sometime they're bad enough that the folder say one name but all tropes belong to a completely different character or the writing gimmick of the article. And as a wiki, you can bet that this kind of thing will keep coming.
Edited by KuruniopenFridge horror on Arthur Western Animation
Found this on Arthur:
- D.W. becomes much more disturbing as a character when you realize that her treatment of Arthur and her behavior in general, despite her being only 4, is actually eerily consistent with a sociopath. She tends to see anything she wants as good and anything she doesn't want as bad, believes she is entitled to whatever she wants, is a Manipulative Bitch (often tricks others to get her way), is known to have outbursts, and seems to be learning to do what is socially expected of her even when she herself doesn't think she needs to do it but shows a complete lack of genuine empathy (for example, her Backhanded Apology in "Arthur's Big Hit", where she apologizes to Arthur for breaking his model plane when ordered to do so but doesn't actually feel guilty for it and still sees it as Arthur's fault for building the model wrong, therefore seeing anything "bad" as the fault of anyone but herself), and in general actually seems to enjoy making Arthur's life a living hell. So if she's already this sociopathic at four, what is she going to turn out like as a teen and adult!? Not to mention how this easily makes her one of the, if not the, most disturbingly fucked up characters to ever grace an Edutainment Show.
- While it's not canon, the You Tube video series Adult Arthur by AOK takes the "what will she be like as an adult" part and runs with it. It's not pretty.
Is this allowed here or no?
Edited by fraggleloveropenEdit warring troper Web Original
Dr Mc P has repeatedly removed two Shipper on Deck entries from the Critical Role: Wildemount Campaign page on the claim that Shipper on Deck is a YMMV trope (notably both are about the same ship). Vorpoler tried to explain that it isn't but Dr Mc P deleted them again anyway. Dr Mc P eventually added one of the entries back themself but the other is still gone.
openOverly Long Notes In Quotes
These are from Quotes.Game Breaker. Should the notes be trimmed down, since they're hard to read even if they do prevent a Zero Context Example?
openFranchise Original Sin for Harry Potter Literature
The Harry Potter saga has acquired enough space to fit its own page for the Franchise Original Sin trope. While some entries are understandable, this one feels kinda odd.
- One of the more common critiques of Crimes of Grindelwald was the titular villain's plan, where he wants To Unmasque the World with the purpose of taking it over and stopping the atrocities of the 1930s-40s. While his imperialist ambitions are undeniably bad, the invoking of Holocaust and Nazi imagery and Grindelwald's legitimate argument about how the Statute of Secrecy ultimately does a lot more harm than good for both Muggles and Wizards ended up striking a chord with a lot of audiences. As a result, it made the "good guys" seem extremely selfish, because when you read between the lines, it acknowledged that wizards could have stopped World War II, the Holocaust, etc., but considered staying isolated and segregated to be more important than saving millions of lives. To an extent, the implication that wizards value their secrecy and privilege over Muggle lives was always there in the original series. Even when Voldemort's supporters were pretty much declaring open season on Muggles during the final two books, none of the good-guy wizards ever considered informing them of the truth despite them finding out what's going on being the best way for Muggles to protect themselvesnote For one thing, the Muggle government could have coordinated with the Order of the Phoenix by combining their resources, and the Muggle Military and the Aurors and/or the Order of the Phoenix could have worked together to track down and kill/capture as many Death Eaters as possible. This could have given the good guys a major advantage over the Death Eaters; even if they don't have magic, Muggles can still fight and kill wizards (and given wizards' general ignorance of Muggle technology, it being used to combat the Death Eaters and Voldemort could have totally blindsided them), and the Muggle population outnumbers the Wizard population. Notably, Dumbledore reaches out diplomatically to a tiny enclave of murderous giants who hate wizards and kill each other for fun, but never considers reaching out to Muggles despite knowing full-well that the Death Eaters want to wipe all of them out. In fact, the only explanation we ever get for why wizards even maintain The Masquerade in the first place is Hagrid briefly claiming that they don't want to use their magic to solve Muggle problems in the first book. While the apparent moral was pretty ugly, the story never really dwelt much on the relationship between wizards and Muggles, which made it easy to ignore or handwave. Crimes of Grindelwald just made it explicit how far their callous indifference went and made it part of the central conflict, rather than a mere implication. It also didn't help that the 1990s were generally seen as a pretty stable era, which made a noninterventionist policy feel somewhat defensible to readers, while the '30s and '40s (and, adding in Reality Subtext, The New '10s) were not.
What exactly is the complaint here? Is the writer complaining that the wizards (and by extension, Rowling herself) chose not to reveal the existence of the wizarding world, even though that was never on Rowling's plans for the series? I'm no Harry Potter expert, but I'm sure the characters and Rowling have explained plenty of times why revealing the existence of the wizarding world to Muggles would be a bad idea. What should we do about this?

Not long ago, slimeshady added a lot of natter regarding negativity and confirmation bias to the Pokemon stadium Computer is a cheating bastard page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheComputerIsACheatingBastard/PokemonStadium
. Other than the fact that what they added has absolutely nothing to do about the page/trope itself, but the info is completely pointless because by his own logic, anything in a video game is negativity or confirmation bias. By his logic, stuff like That One Boss That One Level and That One Sidequest shouldn't exist either because it can interpreted as such.
Would there be any objections to me reverting the page to what it was before he added all of what he said?
Edited by KamonTheSkunk