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Ask the Tropers:
openTroper not giving edit reasons for removals. Also possibly an agenda.
Grotadmorv appears to be almost exclusively removing Nightmare Fuel examples, without giving any of them edit reasons. Could someone send them a notifier? I don't really know that much of how I should do it myself.
Edited by pikachu17open Eteral make-up
Is there any trope for make-up that stays around and is always perfect regardless of anything? I'm not talking about Wakeup Makeup (inly when waking up) nor Beauty Is Never Tarnished (barely even related with the subject of make-up itself), but just make-up that survives improbable things without being just washed away, worn out or even eaten away.
openUnilateral Image Changes in Characters/SpongeBobSquarePantsRecurringCharacters
Troper Grojfan has unilaterally changed the images on Characters.Sponge Bob Square Pants Recurring Characters without going on the Image Pickin' threads for a discussion first. I already PMed them about it earlier today and they agreed to stop (only adding new images for characters who don't have them), but now I would like someone to revert the new images back into the old ones please? I tried doing it myself, but the original image URLs were lost in their other slew of edits, making them confusing to find.
Courtesy link here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.SpongebobSquarepantsRecurringCharacters
openHaving a problem with a thing on the Camp page Film
It's this: "Don't expect it to take itself the least bit seriously."
Now, that may apply with Batman (1966), the works of John Waters, and some of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (specifically Thor: Ragnarok and The Guardians of the Galaxy films), but with all the books and articles I've read on the subject, I've found that part of the page disingenuous. The Universal Monster Movies and the films of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford are very serious but are regarded as camp due to their melodrama, theatricality, and artifice.
I was wondering if it could be changed to something like "The serious becomes silly while the silly becomes serious. And there's no limit to how over the top something can get."
openDeleted Transgender Tropes for Re:Zero Anime
So a while ago I had asked if I should change the page of the character Felis Argyle from Re:Zero to make note that she is a transgender girl, which the story revealed in the prequel volume Ex.1 Dream of the Lion King, and the general consensus was that I should go ahead and do so, and to also cite the post in my reasoning.
I even have the page where she reveals it to the readers, in a scene where its revealed she's been praying to be a girl for six years. https://imgur.com/a/3pNo8Wo
Just right now I found that the character page was altered, by the user Domadordedios, removing any reference to Felis being Trans and gendering them as a guy. They also deleted the Transgender trope, in which this was written.
- Transgender: In the side novel focusing on her backstory, it is revealed that she been praying to be a girl for atleast six years, and is using magic to prevent her body from getting any more masculine. She also gets extremely uncomfortable in men's clothes and addresses herself using feminine Japanese Pronouns.
All of which is true and can be found in the story, mostly within the prequel volume.
The only reason they cite is "Misleading information" without anything else.
What should I do here?
openPrincess Jasmine's Age Western Animation
A while back, I deleted a Values Dissonance entry on Aladdin's YMMV page stating Princess Jasmine to be 15 years old, as I had stumbled across a piece of trivia on Jasmine's page on the Disney Wiki saying she was going to be fifteen and that the Sultan would say that she's got to be married by her sixteenth birthday in an early story concept for the movie, but Jeffery Katzenberg nixed it because he worried about sending the wrong message by showing a fifteen year old girl getting married. It then linked to a book titled Aladdin: The Making of an Animated Film, a book that talks about the movie's development, as its source. More recently, a fellow troper added a Fanon entry to the movie's YMMV page mentioning this exact information. However, Queen Of Swords just deleted it and re-added the Values Dissonance entry while linking to two articles as a source. One of which is a blog that says "although several of the princesses ages were never actually stated in the films, researchers have used aspects from the movies, interviews with members from the Disney corporation, and a general sense of how girls act at certain ages to compile enough data to at least guess at these ages"; from my point of view, this blog never provides any actual sources of their own to back up this claim apart from hearsay, and they even state that it's more of an estimation rather than a concrete answer. The other one links to a Buzzfeed article which itself links to the Disney Princess page on the Disney Wiki, stating that that's where their ages are found. However, I looked, and there's nothing there. Suffice it to say, I don't really consider these valid sources to back up the idea that Jasmine is 15, and I personally trust what a book, that talks about the movie's development and the people working on the movie while going into great detail about each of those things, has to say over what these people on the Internet have to say. I would delete the Values Dissonance example again and re-add fearlessnikki's Fanon entry, but I don't want to risk starting an Edit War.
Any thoughts?
openAsHimself or AsHerself?
The trope page for As Himself adds "a.k.a. As Herself" to the page title.
I know that many tropes have an "official" name which uses the male gender, with a female redirect for the obvious reasons. Does that mean that the male version takes precedence?
I'm asking because there's an example on NYPD Blue which originally referred to one woman appearing as herself, and it was accordingly headed "As Herself". But now a second example has been added under the same heading, this time about a man. So there's one male and one female example under the heading "As Herself".
What's wiki policy about this? Should the heading be kept or changed to "As Himself"? None is really better than the other. I'm inclined to leave it as is, but I'm wondering if "As Herself" counts as a redirect and, as such, shouldn't be used unless it's necessary to avoid confusion?
openAcceptable Targets misuse?
- Acceptable Targets: Everyone and everything on the planet, at one point or another, has been lampooned on the show, even the show itself.
- Out of everyone they've ridiculed, favored butt-monkeys include hippies, Ben Affleck (at least until Argo came out), and Barbra Streisand.
My impression is that this that it's about targets audiences find acceptable. But the entry is about the show finding them assertable which doesn't sound YMMV. ALL the Acceptable Targets entries I've seen are written as the work treating them as assertable, not audiences.
Is it YMMV because fan of the work find it such? That's not how they're written and fans of a work agreeing with the works opinions seems like People Sit on Chairs.
openTempting Fate: Weird subtropes
Tempting Fate has a huge list of subtropes. Which isn't a problem in of itself.
The problem is that a lot of them... aren't subtropes? Some of them are, but a lot of them are examples of how one can tempt fate and saying the trope that they're tempting.
For example, the very first "subtrope":
- "At least it isn't raining." — Cue the Rain. Alternatively, a worse type of weather will occur instead.
Cue the Rain isn't a subtrope of Tempting Fate. A character doesn't have to do or say anything for Cue the Rain to happen, it's just "the weather turns to emphasize an already bad situation." You can tempt fate in a Cue the Rain situation, but it's not a subtrope, just one that can overlap.
A lot of the "subtropes" are like that.
Even if they're valid subtropes, it's not useful as an index because they're ordered by the Stock Phrase that's tempting fate rather than the trope itself, and sometimes the trope is potholed so it's not even visible.
Sorta tempted to just move the whole thing to Analysis.Tempting Fate.
Edited by LarkmarnopenSelf-Demonstrating Index
I wanted to make a Self-Demonstrating page for a web series, where would I index it?
openLuigi a SacredCow?
YMMV.Super Mario Bros recently had a Sacred Cow entry about the franchise itself deleted, while a sub-bullet about Mario being one was deleted in favor of Luigi. Luigi is generally well-liked, but so is Mario, and I think the franchise as a whole is definitely one even more than specific characters. (I've also seen more than a few fanfics where Luigi gets Ron the Death Eater treatment, like I HATE YOU, so his appeal isn't necessarily universal either.)
Here's the deleted entries:
"** The franchise in general is this, due to its incomparable level of success and recognition. Almost all gamers (let alone Nintendo fans) have had some exposure to Super Mario, often as a first childhood game; each major release has a lot of love put into it, and the franchise actively defies the Fleeting Demographic Rule so that fans can continue enjoying the series well into adulthood. Mario is held in such high regard that the series was able to redeem a franchise widely disliked in the gaming community (the Raving Rabbids) via a crossover game, something very few other franchises are able to pull off.
"** As Nintendo's mascot, Mario himself gets this treatment. While some people dismiss Mario for being a dopey, cartoonish everyman Vanilla Protagonist compared to characters like Link, he is near-universally loved and is almost never criticized outright, largely due to his universal appeal — something even Mickey Mouse couldn't sustain over the years. Some modifications of his character — such as portraying him as a Bishōnen or a villain, sexualizing him, or putting him in a CD-i game — are mostly frowned upon, unless it's done for humorous purposes."
And here's the added entry:
"** Luigi is The Woobie, having been pushed out of the spotlight enough In-Universe that just about everyone who isn't Mario or Peach cannot remember his name even though he's done just as much work as Mario and has been just as good at dealing with a threat, and also being branded a coward by Toads who rag on him even while he's trying to save them. Luigi's plight has thus elicited a lot of sympathy from the fans, to the point that it's hard to find anyone who has anything negative to say about the character. Weirdly enough, while a lot of the characters who are portrayed as more of a Jerkass in fanfics and fan parodies are the ones who have criticized Luigi, this also includes Mario, even though he has put himself through hardships because he didn't want to go on without Luigi, supported Luigi while others were abusing him, and even shown his respect for Luigi's heroics. However, the reason Luigi gets next to no credit for his actions is ultimately because Mario is so much more well-known, which means that he is, in a way, somewhat contributing to Luigi's pain and is thus usually characterized as a neglectful, controlling, and sociopathic Big Brother Bully with some of the most trivial offenses — like rubbing their shoes against each other after Luigi wins a trophy in Mario Power Tennis — being used as "evidence"."
Thoughts?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.SuperMarioBros
openPutting tropes for adaptations of characters on comics character pages?
So I recently removed a bunch of tropes entries for adaptations of characters on the X-Men pages because those are comic pages and I haven't seen this done on any other character sheet (Venom, Naruto, Captain America, Batman or anything where the characters have a notable video game presence) and it just sort of looked weird when usually these entries are under the adaptations' own pages. E.g. "Teleport Spam: In [GAME] he does this" or something where it is explicitly said that the person isn't normally something, but in one specific adaptation they are, or Actually a Doombot in one instance for a videogame adaptation. This is in the comics character pages, not the character pages or trope entries for that specific adaptation. There's also their appearances in a videogame apparently warranting being in the main body of text above the examples, which I find questionable.
zealots re-added them without discussion saying there's no rule against it, but the main X-Men characters page itself says it's for the comics and some of the pages themselves state it's for the comics versions, so I'm not sure how to proceed. Thoughts?
Edited by FuzzyBarbarianopenHelp creating an index for a Fan Rec page Anime
Can you help me make a Fan Rec Index for Ren Zha Fan Pai Zi Jiu Xi Tong or otherwise known as Scum Villain Self Saving System page? I noticed it didn't have one and I have no idea how to do it myself.
Edited by Gintama200openCharacter Criticism / Negativity on a Trope Page
The Deconstructed Character Archetype page has an entry for Doki Doki Literature Club!. I haven't read it and so don't have any personal opinions on either it or any of its characters. There's a troper who clearly does, though, and added "The Protagonist can't be blamed fornit because he didn't know. She's a dumb bitch for hiding it." to the end of a subentry. (The subentry only mentions the protagonist in passing. I think the troper was concerned that the subentry mentioning that the protagonist "berates" the character being discussed might make the protagonist look bad.)
I removed the addition with an explanation that Conversation in the Main Page is discouraged and that complaints/reviews should be avoided in examples. The troper didn't re-add it, but they did change the phrase "spacey demeanor" to "idiocy," which sounds like they really want to show their dislike for the character. It's not as much Flame Bait as the previous edit, but given that the subentry discusses how that character appears to be suffering from depression and that fandoms are often sensitive about that in my experience, I'm worried that could still be inflammatory. But I'm also worried about engaging in an Edit War myself by changing it back with Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.
openYMMV subheadings
I noticed this example while looking at pages in recent edit reasons. On YMMV.Mister Rogers Neighborhood, there's a section of tropes that says "Didn't contain, but was still related to examples of:". If they're not from the work itself, should it be removed?
Edited by costanton11openUnintentionally Unsympathetic misuse?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 5 E 12 Amending Fences
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Moondancer may come across as such to some who perceive that she held Twilight at fault simply for not being or staying friends with her, when they had moved apart. It doesn't help that she expected Twilight to show up to her party, yet never even invited her personally, nor cared that her other friends did attend, making her come off as petty and selfish. There's also the fact that she displays a rather blatant Entitled to Have You attitude towards Twilight as well.
It say she may, red-flag, be seen as unsympathetic to those who see her as unsympathetic, as opposed to why she was supposed to be sympathetic despite this. Other problems:
- If the flashback was to be believed, Moondancer was too busy setting the party up to invite Twilight in person.
- Given Twilight's character and circumstances at the time she would have declined even if Moondancer invited her in person.
- Moondancer's other friended reminding her she still had them was a key part in her getting over it, so that's not unintentional. The point was she was unfairly allowing that one moment to taint her view on friendship.
Moondancer and her episode is one of the more fondly remembered because of this, especially compared to Starlight Glimmer who had a similar backstory. This is the only place I've seen criticism agains her suggests it's a tropers personal opinion as opposed to common enough to be this trope. Thoughts?
I asked Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup but haven't heard back. I'm removing it on the 24th per 3-Day Rule unless I hear anything.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenEdit War in YMMV/Super Smash Bros Ultimate Videogame
A while back I noticed this from YMMV.Super Smash Bros Ultimate:
- This would later be downplayed in Castlevania: Grimoire of Souls where Simon initially displays this attitude towards Alucard, commenting on the dark powers from within him are on-par with Dracula's, only for Alucard to remind Simon that he once fought alongside Trevor Belmont, and comments on both Maria, Shanoa, and Charlotte's impressive abilities in magic.
This was a lone third level bullet "reply" to another example under Memetic Psychopath, which was what first stood out as incorrect Example Indentation. Then looking at the text itself it was all about another game's characterization of Simon and nothing to with Simon in Smash Bros. Ultimate. So I removed
it citing both reasons in the Edit Reason.
Tailikku then put it back
showing misunderstanding of both reasons in their Edit Reason.
I PMed them telling them the reasons the entry is incorrect, but they did not respond. So I decided to bring it up here, and checking the Page History again I noticed Tailikku was the one that added the entry
in the first place, so they're also Edit Warring.
openUse of "we", "us", etc. on the wiki
I know that first person writing is not allowed on the wiki (because the articles are not about you), but what does that say for pronouns such as "we" (usually referring to TVTropes itself)?

I find these from The Rise of Skywalker suspect.
The arc was completed and balance restored in ''Return of the Jedi", Anakin outright said "Bring back the balance Rey, as I did." It just didn't stay balanced or Palpatine stay dead for as long as we assumed. This sounds like complaining about the arc being arbitrarily undone as opposed to aborted. Saying it's Zigzagged makes it sound more like a non-example.
Broken Aesop cannot be played with as by definition it's unintentional, all this sounds like it's arguing with itself. It also requires contradicting it's internal logic, so contradicting the Aesop of prior installments isn't this as it's an external contradiction. This sounds more like complaining.
Last question: Rey saving the day by by following Kylo's "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to." seems worth noting. Would this be Villain Has a Point or Strawman Has a Point as the validity was retconned in?