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openEntry from "Murphy's Bullet" that I think Really Should Be Removed
Found this in Murphy's Bullet, and, well, just look at it yourself:
"- Subverted in the Battle of Mogadishu (as seen in Black Hawk Down), where the sheer massive amounts of gunfire directed at the US troops largely missed as a result of not even bothering to aim (or sometimes even looking). It was the few trained militia, taking the time to aim well, that actually hit the US troopers. — Reports from the battlefield generally support the assertion that Third World soldiers have almost no comprehension of marksmanship - those that do tend to have been taught by Western advisors. Even American performance is degenerating as our forces fill up with videogame players instead of squirrel hunters."
Honestly, I do not believe that Real Life should even have any Subversions and Aversions at all, and the second entry is just bad.
openDefensive bashing
KJ Tropes' recent edits on Trish Stratus have been pretty defensive and complaining/insulting.
Their entry for Medal of Dishonor doesn't seem too bad in and of itself (assuming that's an okay trope to list) but their edit reason, "Don't say, "Trish wasn't actually in the match, she didn't deserve that." The whole mess could have been avoided if it had been a Bradshaw-Nowinski singles match. Bradshaw may be an asshole, but he had about a decade of experience at that point (he debuted in 1992), so he and Chris could have held the match together." seems needlessly defensive and unrelated.
After this, their entry for Screw the Rules, I'm Beautiful! includes her starting the "Molly Holly 'big ass' garbage" and including her fans dismissing criticisms, which again seems unrelated. The edit reason is "This is the truth. You can not claim that what I described did not happen."
Edited by iamconstantineopenHelp!
Problem fixed
Just stumbled upon Shōnen Hair, which needed some major scrubbing. Though it looks good from the editing window, the page itself...err...something went very wrong. Please help!
Edit: Please note, all I did was delete some natter and potholes, change some indentation around, and hit Shift+5 a lot. None of it should've swallowed the page...was it Data Vampires?
Edit 2: Can't be. Copy+Pasted the source into a sandbox and the same thing happened in preview. :(
Edited by WarJay77openAudience sympathy on Granbelm
Troper Hikaru Hyouishi wrote some lengthy arguments for Unintentionally Sympathetic and Unintentionally Sympathetic about Anna and Shingetsu in the YMMV of Granbelm.
Spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched the show.
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: ANNA, dear lord. While she is one of the major antagonists of the series, thanks to her backstory during episode 6, many fans ended up siding with her due to Shingetsu (one of the protagonists) and her own mother keeping the truth about her lack of power from her for years. While The Stinger at the end of the episode showed that not only did she attempt to murder her own mother, but that she stole her family's crystal to do nothing more than to torture Shingetsu until she saw fit, her sympathy shot through the roof in the very next episode thanks to Shingetsu's utter lack of understanding that not only was her complaining about how she didn't like being a mage and wanting to get rid of the magic to save Anna from the burden of expectations basically crushing the latter's dreams of being The Witch because she personally didn't like it (while being ignorant of the fact that Anna actually wanted to be that powerful for her family's sake), but her "help" in getting Anna to stop fighting in the GRANBELM and remind her that her family still loves her was basically throwing the great difference between their strengths in Anna's face (which was one of the major reasons for Anna's hatred towards Shingetsu in the first place), as shown by the fact that during their final battle, she deliberately stalled the final blow twice before finishing Anna off with the third one. Because of these reasons, Shingetsu ended up coming off as not only hypocritical of why she wanted to help Anna but also ignorant of how her selfish actions ended up tearing Anna's once loving family apart. That ended up leading her to be...
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: While Shingetsu's burden of having high expectations due to her potentially high magic is understandably rough and that getting rid of said magic because of the potentially dangerous misuse that anyone can do with it is also an understandable goal to have, what started to put fans against her was the fact that she basically kick-started Anna's spiral to the mess she is today by secretly helping her perform a technique that her mother and grandmother couldn't do out of good intentions...which led to Anna believing that she was more powerful than she was. That ended up making Anna's own mother and Shingetsu telling her that she could never beat the latter without telling her why out of their love for her, making Anna think that they valued Shingetsu more than her. This went on for about a decade before the truth was finally spoken...with nearly disastrous results During the battle between her and Anna in the next episode, we're shown that she does feel remorse for her actions and that she wants to make amends, but what rallied fans against her even more was that for all that she said about loving Anna and not wanting to put any burdens on her, it was her utter lack of understanding that for all her complaints about her magic, she never really understood that what she had was all that Anna had ever wanted, and to see that in the process of being thrown away forever because she personally didn't like it felt like a slap to Anna's entire reason for living. It really didn't help that her method of getting Anna to back out of the GRANBELM and realize that there was more to life than being a mage was to throw the huge differences between their strengths in her face.
While I admit Hikaru does make some arguments, these entries look a bit too long to be taken seriously and come across as a bit biased. I'd like to remind everyone here that TV Tropes is not an echo chamber people can use to say whatever you want and not expect any consequences. I do believe there is a time, a place and a way to express those feelings, but this is not one of them.
Edited by MasterHeroopenDo Zero Context Examples apply to Awesome Music?
A short while ago, I added some Alstroemeria Records recommendations to AwesomeMusic.Touhou Other Works, only for them to get commented out by mlsmithca for being Zero Context Examples with a notification from AnoBakaDesu shortly after. I was left baffled. I can understand giving context to tropes because that's the standard rule, but for music? I figured they're automatically self-explanatory with no need for context. The albums I posted are also very lengthy compilations of dance remixes so there was no way I can describe them all properly.
Courtesy link here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=AwesomeMusic.TouhouOtherWorks
openQuestion about Self-Fanservice
If an overweight character is turned skinny in fanart (but not sexualized in the slightest), would that be an example of Self-Fanservice, or something else?
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
openPerma-locked pages that should be cut
i was looking at Locked Pages and i saw several pages that aren't permitted to exist by current site rules. im going to list them here.
- YMMV.Reddit - YMMV page for a website
- YMMV.Lily Orchard - YMMV page for a creator
- YMMV.The Red Pill - YMMV page for a website
- YMMV.Tumblr - YMMV page for a website
i think the proper thing to do is to cutlist them and request their removal from the Locked Pages page, which is itself locked. can a locked page be cutlisted without moderator permission?
Edited by razorrozar7open Very Suspicous Page
Analysis.Jason And The Argonauts was just created today and... it's nothing but a rhetorical question by troper pedro. I'm aware there's already a thread
for them specifically, which just leaves the page itself. I think it definitely needs to get cut.
open Please help me find this song :))
There’s this song I heard when I was younger, I used to use this app called video star where you can make your own videos with any song you’d like and kids and teens would make the music videos and post them on You Tube; that's how I found the song. I remember one part was about how her hair grew long then she cut it all off? I think it was about a girl he used to be with that he hadn’t seen in a while and her hair changed as well as herself.
openWMG in Fridge
We're not allowed to put what is essentially Wild Mass Guessing on Fridge/ subpages or entries, right? Square Peg Round Trope says this is the case with respect to Fridge Brilliance, at least, but I want to make sure. Note that Fridge Horror can also be a source of this; Fridge Logic doesn't suffer from that so much as overlap with Headscratchers.
These entries are what stick out in my mind:
Fridge Horror
- One popular theory posits on whether or not Mei was most likely molested when she was younger given her mannerisms and predatory ways towards Yuzu from the beginning. This is especially made worse when in one instance of trying to offer sex towards Yuzu after she learned that her father wouldn't return to the academy, she claims that she would be gentle as that was Yuzu's "first time."
- Given how it's later revealed that Mei is mimicking the behavior of others, this further reinforces this theory. The "I'll be gentle" comment was likely said to her or something she witnessed before.
This is explicitly noted to be a theory, and the example indentation violation for the sake of natter is not helping its case. The spoiler tag, by the way, is in the page itself and was not added by me.
Under Fridge Brilliance:
- How did Carne ever develop his stand? He can only summon it if he is killed off, so how did anyone ever discover his power? Why, is possible The Boss himself discovered it. He was possibly going to kill him but Epitaph warned him of Notorious B.I.G, so he changed his mind and turned him into a member of his elite squad.
This is clearly guessing. If this was in the story, it would have probably been more explicit. Nothing in the story indicates that this happened as described. Also, Carne did manifest his ability before he died, it's just that this was seemingly overlooked before the anime adapted the relevant arc for some reason.
openPro Wrestler Bashing
One issue I've been coming across a lot lately on pro wrestling pages are tropes and YMMV entries speaking negatively about the wrestler's personal lives rather than professional lives, which I know is not normally allowed on here. For example: the Alternative Character Interpretation on the YMMV pages for Shawn Michaels and Diamond Dallas Page are aimed at the person, not their characters. TLDR: It says that Michaels' Born-Again Christianity is an act and that DDP is a scam artist: For the full version:
- "After Shawn Michaels became a born again Christian in the early 2000s and had his second run, there's always been the nagging question of just how truly changed of a man he's become. Many think he's truly changed for the better and is no longer the Jerkass that he used to be in the 90s. However, others still think Shawn is still the same old prick he's always been but now he just manages to hide it better with religion. There have been many peers in the 2000s like Chris Jericho who say that HBK was a changed man after accepting God. Still, there have been some dissenting voices like Gregory Helms and Jim Cornette who believe that Shawn's just a fake with his "Born Again" attitude and if this interview given by Rob Van Dam
is anything to go by, Shawn can at the very least still be a bit of a jerk, albeit one who's a bit more backhanded and passive-aggressive than in the past. While there is a general consensus that he was a great wrestler in his 2000s run, that consensus becomes a bit more divided when people go into interpretations about how changed of a man he was in that era.
- A good example of the alternate interpretation would his ridiculous overselling in the match against Hulk Hogan at SummerSlam 2005. Many smarks applaud Michaels for standing up to the most hated politician in wrestling for supposedly refusing to put over him in a rematch. Had this been any other wrestler besides Hogan, they'd be calling Michaels a selfish, unprofessional ass for refusing to make his opponent look good. And indeed, Michaels would have gotten a phenomenal match out of the aging Hulkster had he not spent the match flopping around like a fish on meth. To turn an ultimate dream match into a comedy-fest out of spite for Hogan is not exactly admirable behavior, regardless of what Hogan may or may not have done to deserve it."
- "Page presented himself as a hard-working everyman who made good. He uses this persona in his DDP Yoga presentations. He put a lot of work in turning the lives of Jake Roberts and Scott Hall around no doubt; helping them towards addiction recovery and adopting a more healthy lifestyle. Roberts and Hall have both said that they're only alive because of DDP. However, a skeptic might point out that he conspicuously had cameras around to document these magnanimous acts to deliberately use them as marketing tools. DDP did definitely come from a humble background and work hard to get where he is; but he is also a very shrewd businessman and marketing mind. Those who knew him during his wrestling career have noted this when speaking about him in later years. Page and Eric Bischoff were former neighbors and friends (Bischoff even admitted that when he first met Page as a manager in AWA, he found Page to be annoying, obnoxious and more concerned with getting himself over than the guys he managed), and Page did exploit that connection to get some favorable treatment. (He was the first wrestler allowed to stand up to the nWo by Diamond Cutting the Outsiders, for example.) Ric Flair once said on a podcast that Page was a nice guy, but that he was a "smooth operator" who had a talent for getting himself over, "...and making you think it was your idea".
I'll admit that I contributed to these entrys (I didn't write them entirely, but the part about the Hogan scenario on Michaels and the Bischoff part on Page was my doing) but I've had a bit of a Heel Realization and was planning to delete them altogether, but they might be added back.
Further examples of this are the Broken Pedestal entry on Hulk Hogan's YMMV page (and Broken Pedestal isn't even an Audience Reaction:
- "He became this however to professional wrestlers and some fans after the aformented racism scandal. His reinstatement as of 2018 did not help things either, as his apology during his meeting with WWE's enployees was tainted with insincerity (basically he apologized that he got caught). Only time will tell if he is to become a Repaired Pedestal or remain broken."
And this Jerkass entry on Kevin Nash's page that is obviously calling Kevin Nash the person a Jerkass:
- "Pretty much a requirement to be part of the Kliq. He's a lazy, selfish, greedy, bullying creep who cares only about himself and his friends and shows no concern for the damage he does to whatever promotion he is in at the time."
So yeah, I think pro wrestling pages need a lot more monitoring. I'd do it myself, but I'm trying to distance myself from it because I feel I've sort of outgrown it. I get that the lines between reality and fiction in the wrestling world isn't as cut and dry as it is in other media—primarily because for so many years wrestlers lived their gimmicks and even today tend to fully live by the Do Not Call Me "Paul" trope. Either way, this stuff doesn't belong on these pages in my opinion.
openHow original does a creator's content need to be?
I would like to create a page for the YouTuber Pikasprey, but I'm wondering if his content is "original" enough? He has one lets-play channel and a second channel where he reviews weird games or discusses glitches/Easter eggs, and on a more specific note he does crazy self-imposed challenges in Pokemon (such as a ditto-only run).
Is that sort of content creative enough to warrant a page?
Edited by WarJay77openFanfic/OneBigSmash-yFamily
One Big Smash-y Family is in dire need of assistance. There are ZCEs out the wazoo, nearly the entire page is spoiler tagged, and worst of all, that's not a custom title, it was actually created with a hyphen. I'd fix and transport it myself, but I plan on reading the fic and don't want to be spoiled. I'm also not sure if mods can actually cut hyphen pages or not.
openFormatting crash
Something went wrong on The Arithmancer, causing everything between Monumental Damage and Powder Keg Crowd to break. I could probably find and fix it myself, but I'm on mobile right now.
openPage with no existing work Literature
While clicking the Random Media button, I came across the page for Linda. The page has four examples on it, and the description of the work claims that it's a short story hosted on a Google Document. Clicking on the provided link shows that the Document was deleted at some point, and I can't find any other copy of it online. There's no linked account for the author, the history for the page doesn't show who made it in the first place, and only five tropers (including myself at one point last year, to my surprise) have edited the page over the past 8 years.
I would like to ask what's the best course of action for a page like this. Do you cut the whole page, or do you toss it into the Unpublished Works section?
Courtesy link: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.Linda
openOops
I tried adding an example to Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer, but some kinda glitch deleted a big chunk of the page!
I'm so sorry, I swear it was an accident! Can someone please fix it? I'd do it myself, but I don't want to risk getting the same bug and making it worse.
openEtiquette of Taking Charge in a Small Article Videogame
Hello,
I've been a trafficker on the site for a bit before finding small ways I could add to articles, whether it be fixing small mistakes I can find, or adding a few new tropes to not very well-known series.
The page for the video game Walking On A Star Unknown is sparse and had a bit of weird grammar (I did a little bit of editing myself for some wording, as well as adding a few tropes, an image, and a quote- both very general ones from the translator's site). I am interested in taking more liberty and adding a character page, as well as moving tropes that fit characters from the main page to simplify and improve the article.
Since it is quite a small, not yet too-popular game, I assume it would be alright for me to take charge with this? I am not too sure on the etiquette of making large improvements without prior consulting to a larger audience myself, and if I have already stepped over the line by adding a photo and quote, I admit fault (and am more than willing to change it myself if there are any issues.)
In addition, is it preferred that I edit in chunks, or in one or two larger edits? My flow is currently to add bits and pieces at a time, though I could always change this to be one large edit if it is more convenient.
Apologies that this is so long and in depth, I didn't think more background info would hinder anything, I hope. Thank you! Papurika
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
openProblematic entry
the following entry on Funny.The Legend Of Zelda Breath Of The Wild rubs me the wrong way:
- In fact, getting the Gerudo clothes to sneak into town is hilarious in itself. For starters, the "Vai" is clearly actually a voe, but Link goes along with it for the sake of the mission. When Link is given the rather revealing outfit, he at first looks embarrassed, but after the "Vai" gives him a few compliments, he looks bashful but pleased... And then the wind blows off the "Vai"'s mask, revealing their true face, resulting in a Face Palm from Link.
note that Vai translates as woman and Voe translates as man.
this entry comes off as extremely transphobic to me. the person in question expresses exclusively as female and is never seen expressing any masculine traits. it's noted on the YMMV page that the whole sequence is controversial because of its questionable portrayal of a possibly trans individual. people can find whatever they want funny, of course; it's not like you can choose what you laugh at. but the way this is worded implies that because the person wasn't assigned female at birth, they aren't female. this strikes me as a very mean-spirited jab at non-passing trans people, and i know the wiki is better than that.
openAbout the Atoner
If a character wants to make up for one or more terrible things they did, but their deeds were so heinous and so many in number that people reject their attempts for that reason(s), and if the character realized that their misdeeds were so many and so severe that they may never get their atonement, what form of playing with this trope would that be? I think it might be a deconstruction in that if a person’s done so many terrible things, then there’s no way for them to ever be forgiven. But then again, I also think it might be playing it for drama.
Here’s an example: Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto killed members of a nation’s military (the Iron Country samurai), attempted to kidnap Killer Bee, the relative of a village leader, and allied himself with a known criminal and later a terrorist organization. He’s committed murder, Mind Rape, attempted kidnapping, and high treason, and now post-Kaguya he’s trying to make up for all of that. If wherever he went people rejected his attempts at atonement - denying him food and lodging and generally treating him as persona non grata - and he realized people would never forgive him because of how bad his actions were and felt/thought that the sheer number and severity of all his past misdeeds were so great that he would never fully atone for them in his lifetime, what form of playing with the Atoner would that be?

Straight Gay just sound Oxymoronic when the trope itself is about having non stereotypical gay traits. And the picture itself doesn't do a good job as well.
Edited by WhirlRX