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openMoving the Dark Matter TV series and its subpages Live Action TV
Just bugs me: why was the Dark Matter TV series moved, and not in its entirety? The WMG, dedicated entirely to the series (as opposed to the neglected RPG system) was left with the old name, and the move itself happened last weekend.
openBiased Troper Deletions
This troper here
has taken to deleting entries on Characters.Game Of Thrones House Stark Children regarding Jon Snow. Any examples critical of the show's version of Jon Snow, are removed and examples insisting that he's a special genius contrary to visual examples are placed instead.
Now initially I backed away from these deletions, but another troper restored the entries indicating a consensus for the original view, and voila the Show!Jon fan has deleted the entries (which I corrected and improved since that was even more negative) this time without a comment explaining or defending himself.
openRegarding Opinions in YMMV Not (Directly) Releated to the Work
In YMMV.A Centaurs Life, I noticed this entry:
- What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?: The world of Centaur, which is ruled by Political Correctness Gone Mad and points out many problems with "absolute equality" as well as excessive political correctness hurts freedom of expression and individuality, is thought by many to be Take Thats at countries such as the UK, Canada, or several European Union countries, who have made the news in years prior and during the manga's publication for increasingly draconian "hate crime" laws. However, Word of God has never confirmed it's supposed to be an attack on any specific country, so it's best assumed it's just a criticism of the way of thinking to begin with. And it's hardly even a new topic to begin with...Harrison Bergeron addressed many of the same issues all the way back in 1961.
I know deleting or altering YMMV is not allowed except for factually incorrect statments, but what of opinions that are not really about the work itself? In this case, as a resident, I wouldn't describe Canada's hate crime laws as "increasingly draconian" nor would I put quotes around "hate crime", but I'm not sure changing that in the entry because I don't agree with it is right.
Edited by homogenizedopenDoes This Violate No Real Life Examples? Web Original
I added an entry into Police Are Useless for The Last Podcast on the Left, but only afterward did I realize that the trope is in the No Real Life Examples, Please! index. I now have two questions: does the following violate NRLEP? If so, do I take it off the works page, too?
- The Last Podcast on the Left:
- The hosts often note times when police ineffectiveness is a major factor in how long a serial killer goes without getting caught. For example, in the Dean Coril series, they note the Huston police were underfunded and understaffed so much that, as a result, they actively avoided investigating things like homicides and shut down a victim's family when they provided a letter written by their missing son that they suspect was faked, but which Missing Persons took as evidence he was no longer missing.
- They also note occasions when a killer was caught by dumb luck or mistakes rather than anything police did. Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, for instance, were only found out when Lake was held for questioning for an act of compulsive shoplifting by Ng, and police never suspected anything serious until Lake killed himself while in custody.
The trope is discussed on the show, but on the context of real life events (which I included so they wouldn't be purely general examples).
If this does violate NRLEP, could I rewrite the example to state that the hosts hold this view and then describe a character they created, Detective Popcorn, as a way to mock them?
Edited by sgamer82open Protesting against ageism in Phantom Menace YMMV post Film
So I've been trying to post about how it's wrong and ageist for people to judge Anakin in the Phantom Menace as being written as a child without caring if he had been likeable, well-written and sympathetic, without negative qualities like being whiny, bratty, immature and annoying. Those negative qualities are what makes him poorly written, and the fact that Jake Lloyd couldn't act made it worse. I try proving that it's not a Continuity Snarl if he was well-written and played by a kid who COULD act, because according to the Return of the Jedi clip I gave a link to, the Force ghost Obi-Wan never told Luke how old Anakin was when he first knew him. He just said Anakin was already an excellent pilot, but Obi-Wan was amazed at how strong the Force was with Anakin. If anything, since Obi-Wan said, "I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi," Qui-Gon's involvement WAS a Continuity Snarl. But it's not a Continuity Snarl if the kid Anakin were actually well-written and played by a kid who COULD act. Judging Anakin for being introduced as a child is like judging Rey for being a girl and Finn for being black, and Rey and Finn were NOT poorly written like Anakin was. And not all child actors were Jake Lloyd, some were actually quite good. But it might've helped if the script didn't have bullshit like "Are you an angel?" and "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!" and was nowhere near as poorly-written as it was. The plot too, and pretty much all of the characters aside from Jar Jar (who never should've even been created, and would never work given that that kind of cartoonish slapstick and that he was purely annoying). It might've helped for Anakin to have been found on a different planet instead of Tatooine (to avoid plot holes) and to savie any romance for until Anakin grows up in the next 2 prequels, as long as they weren't handled the way George Lucas handled it. And someone should've convinced George Lucas that the way he envisioned the prequels would never work and he should've given the prequels to someone who is capable of making a decent prequel trilogy that's closer to up to snuff with the original trilogy. Maybe it's hard to write a decent child character, but it's not impossible if the right person envisions a Star Wars prequel trilogy. And writing likeable characters to root for isn't easy, but Lucas never tried hard. He just did what he wanted without really considering what the fans would want and the prequels suffered as a result. But if fans can't accept a likeable, well-written child Anakin instead of a poorly-written, whiny, bratty, immature, and annoying child Anakin, they are just as bad as George Lucas. There are too many problems with the prequel trilogy to decide that a child Anakin can't be likeable, sympathetic, and well-written.
I tried posting this under Mis-blamed, but it got deleted twice. I'm trying to figure out a decent trope that might fit and a better way to protest against the ageism of those audiences and show why they are out of line judging characters for being a child when so many things could have been different, including a well-written child if they had a writer who WAS capable, instead of George Lucas. So I'd also like to do all that in a not-so Natter-y or ranting way, along with the proper trope. But if anyone support the audiences who put age over likeability and characterization, please ignore this post. I don't want any more discriminatory, ageist posts or supports of such discrimination.
openSelf-demonstrating and ThisTroper in Creator page
The page Creator - Queg is written from the first person, (pretending to be) written from the Creator themselves. Then at the end it says it is written to be self-demonstrating.
Aren't self-demonstrating articles only allowed in the /SelfDemonstrating Namespace? And ThisTroper language not at all?
P.S. the Troper who re-wrote it extensively into the current form, Frabaginarf, only has one edit
and it is that. Apparently that Troper either is, or is pretending to be, the Creator in question. Again, seems fishy in the light of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours.
Should this page stay in the form it currently is? Or what to do with it?
Edited by LB7979openWhat's the deal with Main.CircularRedirect?
Main.Circular Redirect is redirecting to itself. The edit history
suggests that the point of this was something about "the screen to break them", which I think is a feature the wiki doesn't have anymore.
Should this be cut, pointed at Administrivia.Circular Redirect, or left as-is?
openExcessive bumbing?
Am I the only one who's thinking that bumping of threads has gone a bit out of hand lately? I've seen examples where threads have been bumped after just a couple of hours of inactivity.
It seems people are worried that if a thread scrolls of the page in their web browser, nobody will see it. Is this really the case? I tend to scroll down until I find a thread that hasn't changed since last I read it. And I'm sure the mods do so as well, so as not to miss any important stuff.
Am I being overly sensitive here? Perhaps, but please consider that the current frequent bumping can actually aggravate the (perceived) problem and even be self-reinforcing, because every bumped thread pushes everything else down, and then somebody will bump a thread that just went off the bottom of the page, and so on...
openYMMV Question: Length of entires?
So an issue is coming up concerning a member on a YMMV page for the fan fic A Man of Iron. Basically, this member, Cheap Sun Glasses, clearly hates the story and has over the last few days repeatedly posted entries attacking the author and the story. Nothing too extreme, mind you... just things like "The author is an Smug Snake who thinks he knows the work better than everyone else" or "The author has no idea how to write the characters". This member first put these on the main page where they were removed as they were opinions. He has now put them in YMMV.
The issue isn't what he is posting it's the length. Nearly 3/4ths of his entries are massive walls of text that he even states are cut and pasted from a review he did of the story. Here is an example:
- Draco in Leather Pants: Mr. Chaos loves Tywin Lannister as much as he hates Catelyn Stark (see Ron the Death Eater), and tries to add a level of Hidden Depths to him. This scathing review of the story sums it up best:
"You spent a lot of time on the Lannisters, Tywin in particular. I'm kind of impressed by the image you presented of Tywin: cold, efficient, emotionless, and highly rational. A nice image, one Tywin himself would probably love. Too bad it has nothing to do with the Tywin Lannister as presented in the books. Tywin Lannister was a damn emotional being. He went to overkill on multiple occasions because of his emotions. The Reynes and Tarbacks were screwing his father and family for years: exterminate both families and destroy their castles. Rhaegar married Elia instead of Cersei: have Gregor and Amory kill Elia and her children in a monstrously violent manner. Tyrion married a peasant woman: have his guards rape her while Tyrion and Tywin watch, and then have Tyrion rape her while he still watched. Tyrion kidnapped by Catelyn: send in Ser Gregor and the Lannister army to invade the Riverlands (which, if Robert hadn't died when he did, would have meant Tywin disrupted the peace and would have faced severe reprisal for it). For all the people who praise him even while acknowledging his evilness, too few understand so much of who he was depended on the image he build for himself. There's a reason GRRM makes sure Tywin died in the priory and his very corpse stank: to make it clear how everything Tywin built was ultimately fragile and nowhere near as great and awesome as he claimed it was. Seven Hells, just look at how the Lannisters are doing in AFFC and ADWD compared to the Starks: where the Lannisters and their allies are destroying themselves, the Starks and their bannerman are the ones still around, still gaining in strength, and still very much willing to fight on for 'Ned's Daughter.'"
- He also tries to paint Rhaegar's relationship with Lyanna as a tragic love story. In reality, it was based on the paranoid narcissism of a selfish prince convinced that he was The Chosen One, or that his third child would be. To that end, he abandoned his wife (who was too weak to bear a third child) and ran off with a woman who was betrothed to someone else—even annulling his first marriage along with way—thus kick-starting a destructive war that got his not-wife and "bastard" children killed and his family displaced.
Now, to me that seems overly long. I have always assumed that T Vtropes likes to keep entries short. A sentence or two. Not the college essay this was. So I edited down his post to a more reasonable length and also added a bit for the other side. This is the edited version:
Draco in Leather Pants: Some fans feel that the author is doing this with Tywin, giving him more depth than there is. Others argue this is merely him developing the character, especially since he is given POV chapters here.
After I did this though it occurred to me that maybe I was in the wrong and it was perfectly within that member's right to have such walls of text in YMMV. And if so I will revert it back to what it was.
What are the rules on this? Am I correct that Tvtropes would prefer short, to the point entries? Or should it remain as posted, no matter the length? I don't want an edit war in any way, shape, or form, so coming to you guys.
Thank you
openConfused by 'glurge addict'
First of all, I apologize if this is the wrong place for stuff like this. I'm just confused by the Glurge Addict trope, mainly some of the examples. Glurge itself is a trope I've had a hard time understanding exactly(common for me) but it seems to involve works meant to be inspirational, or heartwarming having dark Unfortunate Implications and the like. Glurge Addict however, seems to me to have very little to do with Glurge. Is this just examples of Square Peg Round Trope? Or is this really meant to just be fans of super cute things? Some of the examples I'm talking about are like "Little Shop of Horrors has Audrey. She has a stuffed puppy on her bed, and other cute decorations around her room. " and other things that are just about super cute things, and not actual Glurge. Was this the intention? I'm just really confused. Sorry that this ended up being such a mess. I'm not an expert on editing here at all.
openOK to use notes to hide spoilers? Videogame
The regular [[spoiler]] tag is fine for hiding a few words, but is it okay to use [[labelnote]] instead to hide a large amount of spoiler-y text?
I'm cleaning up the page VisualNovel.The Letter, and some of the examples are a bit lengthy.
For example, I want to change this:
- Earn Your Bad Ending: In order to trigger certain character deaths or ruin certain relationships, you have to deliberately choose options that are cowardly, impulsive or very clearly offensive. Surprisingly, this also applies to the True Ending, which is not an Everybody Lives ending and requires you to deliberately trigger the deaths of Hannah, Marianne and Ashton before sending Luke off for a Heroic Sacrifice. And this is after you unlock the Memory Fragments that are triggered by every individual character's death.
to this:
- Earn Your Bad Ending: In order to trigger certain character deaths or ruin certain relationships, you have to deliberately choose options that are cowardly, impulsive or very clearly offensive. spoiler Surprisingly, this also applies to the True Ending, which is not an Everybody Lives ending and requires you to deliberately trigger the deaths of Hannah, Marianne and Ashton before sending Luke off for a Heroic Sacrifice. And this is after you unlock the Memory Fragments that are triggered by every individual character's death.
It's not a big deal by itself, but several examples are like this, and it makes the page look like Swiss-cheese for people with spoilers off. I don't want to be overzealous with the notes, so I want to ask here first.
(I actually asked a similar question here a few weeks ago, so this is kind of like a follow-up question.)
Thanks!
Edited by craleigh318open Old Mech, Rocks! Film
Does anybody remember the name of this film? It starts out, (obviously) in the future (although, the film itself looks like it was made in the 70's). There's spacesuit looking clothes, mechs are the main choice of vehicles, etc. The main characters are running an obstacle course as part of they're military-mech training, (that looks strikingly like the metal geometric half sphere, made from smaller triangles they had at recess when i was a kid), but room by room going down. Designed to help them get into there mechs as quicky as possible. The next day, the main characters (a male and a female) are running late for training, because they making-out! Meanwhile they're base get's hit and they get separated from the rest of they're team. The Big-Bad destroy's that base and every other base and the result is: post-apocalyptic world. Fast-Foreward, the main characters are still together, but struggling to survive. The guy remembers where a mech is (from before the apocalypse), that fell into a sinkhole and convinces her to go with him. They pack-up splunking gear and the equivalent of a mechanic's tools, but for mech's and head-out. They finally get there and spulunk into the sinkhole, but they have to leave some of the tools up-top, because they can't fit. They reach the mech and nearly fix-it-up, she splunks up to the surface to get something they need to finish fixing the mech just as the same Big-Bad (in his mech) is walking by. The Big-Bad see's her and tries to step on her. She does everything she can to dodge him from stepping on her, while staying beneath his mech to prevent him from shooting her. She manages to get the tool needed to fix they're mech and splunks back down, landing on top of they're mech and finishes fixing they're mech. He starts it up and I forget how he gets it out from the sinkhole to the surface of the desert, but he does and the old mech beats the new mech. The End. Anyway's, I can't remember the name of this film and hoped someone else does. Thanks!
openSpam alert
raopooja800
Check the edit history out
, this user posted a link to some unknown website for no reason.
Cleaning out spamlink myself now.
openSelfDemonstrating/SiivaGunner
SelfDemonstrating.Si Iva Gunner has been cut a few days ago, because it redirected to AwesomeMusic.Video Games, and that was misleading...
Well, SiIvaGunner makes misleading music videos, so obviously his self demonstrating page would be a Bait-and-Switch, and the troper who cutlisted it (VmKid) must have missed the joke. Should I restore it? That page was very funny. Thank you.
Edited by PiterpicheropenCleanup efforts for trivia subpages in creator pages.
Hello. I've been trying to help clean up Creator pages by having its trivia pages cut-listed and the trivia moved back into the Creator itself per the previous ATT discussion
such as 4Kids Entertainment, but what would be the best place to start a project on this matter? Thanks.
openLife is Strange fridge page Videogame
There are several entries in Fridge.Life Is Strange that are either too obvious to be considered Fridge, built on no basis whatsoever, or just flat out wrong. For example:
Too obvious:
- With the reveal that Jefferson is the one was kidnapping and drugging girls after taking pictures of them in Episode 4, a quote from his speech at the start of episode 1 shows that he was behind it all along, as he says "I could frame any one of you in a dark corner, and capture you in a moment of desperation", clearly alluding to the Dark Room. After that, he even seems to tease the player in retrospect. "Is that too obvious?"
Pointing out an obvious clue of foreshadowing. The game itself event points it out.
No basis:
- If you had Max euthanize Alt!Chloe in Episode 4, she immediately uses the photo to go back in time. However, that means that Alt!Max wakes up in her own body, next to her dead best friend she hasn't seen in years, having unknowingly killed her and with an entire day's worth of memories missing.
This assumes the game operates under multverse theory, which it doesn't. The entire message is that Max's constant time travelling is harming the timeline, which is desperately trying to correct itself.
Flat out wrong:
- Think sacrificing Chloe is the correct choice? "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" Well sure! Go ahead and rewind time to stop yourself from saving Chlo- Wait? Wasn't your constant rewinding of time the cause of the Time Storm in the first place? ...And you just rewound time AGAIN. Congratulations! You just made the storm in all likelihood BIGGER. The town will still be destroyed, Max will not have her powers to mitigate any fatalities like last time, and she just sacrificed her best friend for nothing. Have fun!
We specifically see that the storm didn't happen once Max gets back, due to the timeline finally being corrected.
The point here is that there are several entries like these on the page, and trying to list the reason for deleting each one will be a giant hassle. Is it okay if I just mass delete the wrong entries with a blanket explanation of "Factually wrong", or do I need to give each deletion its own explanation?
openGetting rid of Shipping Bias / Reporting two tropers Anime
If you guys don't mind, this is a twofer post that actually goes hand-in-hand. Also, I apologize in advance because this is a long post, but I need to give a lot of information so that you'll understand where I'm going with this.
So I already called for RandomX to be reported in my previous ATT post
, for, among a lot of reasons, shipping bias. I saw shipping bias in their Naruto entry for First Kiss. On August 14th, matruz removed the shipping bias and provided an Edit Reason explaining why it was removed—to paraphrase, "because saving someone's life with CPR does not equate to a kiss, and as an experienced medical ninja Sakura had to have performed CPR on other subjects before Naruto in order to perfect the procedure, so Naruto is not her First Kiss." Also, it's long since been confirmed in the manga and from post-series interviews with creator Masashi Kishimoto himself that Sakura loves Sasuke and not Naruto, and Naruto rejected Sakura in Chapter 469 of the manga. When Sakura performed CPR on him during the War, about 200 chapters after Chapter 469, she was trying to save his life, not trying to kiss him, so it comes off as more of a friendship moment than a romantic one; plus, Naruto wasn't conscious when she performed CPR on him, so it wasn't mutual. Naruto is shown kissing only two people in Canon: Sasuke in Chapter 3 (both he and Sasuke are visibly shown to not enjoy it, due it being an Accidental Kiss), and Hinata in The Last: Naruto the Movie (which is explicitly the first canon movie of the franchise—an advertisement that was published with the final two manga chapters officially called the movie "Chapter 699.5". Here's the proof
). Regarding the kiss with Hinata, Naruto initiates it and is visibly shown enjoying giving her The Big Damn Kiss at the end of the movie, so that was his First Kiss with a girl and also his first mutual and romantic kiss. Based on these facts that I related directly from canon events (and I even provided the manga chapters and the advertisement picture as proof), I agreed with matruz's Edit Reason to remove the shipping bias. However, on September 5th, Trustworthy69 re-inserted the shipping bias that matruz removed, and gave no Edit Reason explaining why it was re-inserted. Edit Reason or not, that is an Edit War on Trustworthy69's part.
Not only that, but I also see shipping bias in Falling into His Arms and Kiss of Life, from EarsplittingLepidopteran. For Falling into His Arms, the description states that it's a very romantic trope, but EarsplittingLepidopteran deleted the Minato/Kushina example (which was romantic) and inserted Naruto saving Sakura and being stabbed by her poisoned kunai (which was not romantic. This event also occurred in Chapter 484, 15 chapters after Naruto rejected Sakura, which makes it even less romantic), and then the way this person worded their completely blanked-out spoiler-tag entry (which is not allowed, according to Handling Spoilers) sounds like shipping bias, so it did not employ neutral wording. The Kiss of Life Naruto entry written by EarsplittingLepidopteran also claims the First Kiss issue, but as I explained in my previous paragraph, and as matruz's Edit Reason stated in the Ship Tease Anime and Manga page and in First Kiss, an experienced medical ninja would have performed and perfected the CPR procedure long before Naruto, so he was not her First Kiss, and she loves Sasuke and was trying to save Naruto's life, but he was unconscious and he already rejected her in Chapter 469, so it was not mutual. Also, Naruto finally woke up from unconsciousness not from Sakura's CPR, but rather from the Sage of Six Paths giving Naruto his powers; this was shown in Chapters 671 and 672. Therefore, the Kiss of Life Naruto entry is not a valid example.
Getting to the point of my post, based on what I have said: 1) The Naruto entries for First Kiss, Falling into His Arms, and Kiss of Life should be reworded to be neutral and display no shipping bias, or even some entries should be removed because they do not follow the criteria from the trope's description(s). 2) If this has not been done already, EarsplittingLepidopteran should be called in/reported for shipping bias and lack of neutral wording, and Trustworthy69 should be called in/reported for shipping bias, lack of neutral wording, and Edit Warring.
Here's the edit history for the aforementioned three tropes: Falling Into His Arms
, First Kiss
, and Kiss Of Life
.
Here's the edit history for EarsplittingLepidopteran
, and here's the edit history for Trustworthy69
.
I will not do anything with those three aforementioned tropes until I get feedback from a more knowledgeable troper and/or a moderator.
Edited by mouschilightopenPossibly an edit war
On YMMV.Metroid Samus Returns, Waxing Name added an invalid Broken Base entry to it despite the game only just coming out. Ymir deleted it because of this, but then Waxing readded it with the reasoning that "Ridley does come out of nowhere", giving the impression that he's just speaking for himself.
The history: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MetroidSamusReturns
openThinking of Removing Entry from Fanfic/ Memes
The entry in question is about a fanfic called "Forbidden Love: The Iliad". However, when I searched up the fanfic, there did not seem to be much mention of it, so I am not so sure if it was ever a meme.
Maybe I should have searched up the line that was memetic, though. But I do not want to, because... well, just check the entry yourself.
Edited by RaygunJustice

User DJ_MixDoctor has created a page and four wicks to it for his own podcast, "Radio For Gamers." He isn't even trying to be sneaky about it (the page and one of the wicks leading to it are written in first-person), which tells me he probably just doesn't know how we do things here. I'd provide a link to the podcast itself as well, but in spite of all this he hasn't actually linked to it at any point or even said where it's hosted.
Edited by Dirtyblue929