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Ask the Tropers:
openHow to remove/change a redirect?
I hate to bother with something everyone seems to get already, but I have been unable to teach myself how to create a redirect despite reading https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/CreatingNewRedirects
, and beg someone to take pity on me and explain how to create a new redirect step by step in a way that I can understand. I know how to create, edit, and index pages, but my inability to understand how a redirect works makes me feel like an idiot. Once I understand that, I would like to learn how to remove or change an existing redirect.
The redirect I want to change is Anime/KenpuuDenkiBerserk, which currently redirects to Manga/{{Berserk}}. This is no good, because in the process of splitting off new pages for each of Berserk's adaptations, I created Anime/SwordWindChronicleBerserk, a page for the 1997 anime adaptation which is the only Berserk adaptation titled Kenpuu Denki. I need to make it stop redirecting to the Manga/{{Berserk}} page and make it instead redirect to Anime/SwordWindChronicleBerserk. Actually, what I'd really like to do is make Anime/KenpuuDenkiBerserk the official namespace and have Anime/SwordWindChronicleBerserk redirect to it. But failing that, I at least need to remove the redirect to the manga page.
Edited by TheBigBopperopenEdit War in PopularityPolynomial
A while ago, troper What Art Thee brought up the Pokemon-related trope image for Popularity Polynomial here at ATT
, suggesting it be removed. He didn't get much support for the idea but was directed to Image Pickin'. Whether he ever brought it up there I don't know— can't find any record of it— but he did take it upon himself to delete Pokemon's entry on that page.
Troper Jhonny brought the issue up in Discussion believing it should be reinstated. I agreed with him, no one else showed up to weigh in one way or the other, so Jhonny reinstated the example.
What Art Thee just came around again and re-deleted it, so Jhonny brought it up in Discussion again. I went ahead and reinstated it and left a note directing What Art Thee to join us in Discussion if he wants to argue for its deletion, but so far he has a history of bringing this up, ghosting when he can't gin up consensus for his proposed edits, and then making them anyway once the conversation has died down, so I thought it worth bringing up here.
openGratuitous Japanese in work pages.
After I made an edit in LightNovel.Re Zero, I think I have gotten myself into an edit war of sorts, inadvertently . I mention "inadvertently" because I was removing some audience reactions that were on the work page, so it never occurred to me to check the history page
before clicking "save". So, out of curiousity, I checked it out, and saw that two weeks ago, luisedgarf removed the word "seiyuu" from an example mentioned in Award-Bait Song, and exchanged it with "voice actress", giving the edit reason of "Removing gratuitious Japanese". But three days later, Demongodofchaos 2 reverted it back to "seiyuu" adding that it was "not needed" (he was also the one who originally added the example in the work page, three months ago). I, unfortunately, engaged into this accidentally.
So, here is my question before making the issue more bigger, as I admit this was an accident (and couldn't give an edit reason regarding that change): I assume that the majority of the wiki only uses Anime Fanspeak in anime and manga work pages when it is catalogued as part of a trope (like Otaku Surrogate)... but when there are other terms (and not tropes) that do have an English equivalent, it's preferred to use the English words when redacting examples and descriptions, right? In this case "voice actor" or "voice actors" for "seiyuu".
I don't know where else to discuss this, and I have been trying my best to not get into any kind of edit warring. But once I started to check out the Edit War page, I preferred to bring this out here, because I don't know what else to do. And, admittedly, I'm scared I did something I shouldn't have.
Edited by kirara19openDragonBallSuper / TropesPToZ
User Ramona 122003 and I have had some dispute concerning the Sorting Algorithm of Evil trope entry, as I argue that its relevant to the trope entry to discuss how the villains compare to each other in order to avert the trope, and give an explanation for it based on in-universe statements, which admittedly required me to use the two protagonists these villains fought as a point of refernce. The other user, however, believes this to be too speculative, perhaps rightfully so, perhaps not. I guess I better let you compare. My entry:
- Sorting Algorithm of Evil: Averted in this series. Beerus is the first enemy the Z-Fighters face and he is so far above their level that Goku is still weaker than him even after training with Whis. Afterwards the next few opponents the Z-fighters face seem to be around the same level, with each of them having their own strenghts and flaws but falling behind Beerus. Frieza is a threat after coming back to life, training, and gaining an ultimate form that greatly surpasses Super Saiyan Blue Goku, but he's still weaker than Beerus and would have been no threat at all if Goku and Vegeta worked together, and also his ultimate form lacks stamina. In the Champa Saga, there is no real villain, but only Hit on the U6 team poses a threat to Goku and Vegeta in their god forms, and strength-wise he is stated not to be quite on the level of a somewhat stronger Goku and Vegeta , let alone Golden Frieza. Skill-wise, however, he is far more dangerous since he has Super-Speed and other unique abilities. Champa himself may be a little weaker than Beerus, but he is still well above any of the heroes since he was ready to murder the entire U6 team and Goku couldn't stop him if he tried. The next Arc Villain, Copy-Vegeta, is as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, which puts him in the same boat as Golden Frieza and Hit. Even in just in his base, Copy-Vegeta is leagues above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, who can't even harm him. In the Future Trunks Saga, Goku Black is said to be only as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku. However, Black is able to improve rapidly much like Hit, and by the time Goku and Vegeta confront him in the future he has caught up with past villains and is able to endure a beating from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta in base [[spoiler: and is revealed to have a Super Saiyan form, Super Saiyan Rosé, which he uses to strike down Vegeta with one blow using an unique blade attack and hold an edge over Goku. To make matters worse for the heroes, they also have to deal with Future Zamasu who is almost even with Super Saiyan Blue Goku and an immortal. The trope is Played Straight, however, as things goes even further downhill when Black and Future Zamasu fuse to create Merged Zamasu, an immortal being who can grow stronger like Black.
His entry: * Sorting Algorithm of Evil: Averted in this series. Beerus is the first enemy the Z-Fighters face and he is so far above their level that Goku is still weaker than him even after training with Whis. Frieza is a threat after coming back to life, training, and gaining an ultimate form that surpasses Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Super Saiyan Goku, but he's still weaker than Beerus, lacks the stamina for a prolong battle, and would have been no threat at all if Goku and Vegeta worked together. In the Champa Saga, while there is no villain per say, only Hit on the U6 team poses a threat to Goku and Vegeta in their god forms, and strength-wise he is at best a little above Golden Frieza. Skill-wise, however, he is far more dangerous. Champa himself may be a little weaker than Beerus, but he is still far above any of the heroes since he was ready to murder the entire U6 team despite all the power they showed and Goku is helpless to do anything about it. The next Arc Villain, Copy-Vegeta, is as strong as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, which makes him on par with Golden Frieza and Hit. Even in just in his base, Copy-Vegeta is leagues above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, who can't even harm him. In the Future Trunks Saga, Goku Black is said to be only as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku. However, Black is able to improve rapidly much like Hit, and by the time Goku and Vegeta confront him in the future he is able to withstand hits from Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta. Then it's revealed that he has a Super Saiyan form, Super Saiyan Rosé, which he uses to strike down Vegeta with one blow and he's still getting stronger. To make matters worse for the heroes, they also have to deal with Future Zamasu who is almost even with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and an immortal. Then things escalate further when Goku Black and Future Zamasu fused, creating Merged Zamasu.
openNothing to do with Creator Killer? Anime
I'm genuinely confused as to how this doesn't have anything to do with Creator Killer. I mean it, I thought it was an example from the minute I learned of it. Maybe the second half of the example doesn't have anything to do with the trope (and in fact would feel more at home under Old Shame), but I'm positive the first half has at least some link to the trope.
- The screenplay for Pokémon 3 has been blamed for killing series showrunner Takeshi Shudo's career. For him, the way the ending, which was supposed to have been ambiguous, was interpreted by the scriptwriter marked the beginning of the end. For the rest of his life, he had no kind word to say about the movie itself, going on record as saying that were his mother alive and missing he would never have even thought about abducting another's.
openSpanglish Example on Values Dissonance.
Here...
- In the movie Spanglish. Towards the end Flor decided to take her daughter Cristina out of a high standard private feeder school where she had a full ride and put her back into the black hole that is the California public school system. Why? Basically because she didn't think it was Hispanic enough. So apparently the moral of the story was that it's okay to do something with significant negative implications for your child's future so long as it alleviates your own cultural concerns and insecurities.
- Even worse, it implies that being Hispanic and being successful are mutually exclusive.
- It's hard to see that as negative implications for the child's future when the film implies she is accepted to Princeton. The whole point of the movie was contrasting this well-off family where the mother doesn't seem to notice her children (except to shame her daughter for being overweight) with Flor's relationship with Cristina. Maybe qualifies as Unfortunate Implications because Flor doesn't want Cristina to adopt the values of the Clasky family, who are white, but it seemed to this troper like an in-universe example of Values Dissonance based more on financial status.
- In Latin American culture family is very important, so to a Latin American audience Flor would be right to distance herself and her daughter from Deborah, who would be considered a toxic influence for neglecting her family and driving a wedge between Flor and Cristina.
I really agree with the second troper but she shouldnt include herself in the text and despite me agreeing I have to admit she broke the rules when it comes to "DO NOT TRY TO JUSTIFY THIS" that the Values Dissonance pages have.
openSpoiler Tagging on Wham Shot
Wham Shot has a warning of unmarked spoilers right above the example section, but in the example section itself some examples use spoilers anyway. Should/can I remove those spoiler tags? It just irritates me to see the different examples of the same trope following different protocols.
Edited by OrbitingopenNarm subpages
I noticed the subpages of Narm mark it as flame bait, but the page itself is only YMMV. Is this a mistake?
openHow do you get tropers to give your own fanfic a shot?
So, I know this will rub people the wrong way just for asking, but I'm still doing it. Fanficrec's can't be self-recommended (which is logical of course) but what do you do if you think you've written a good fanfic and want a troper to give it a shot? Admittedly, in the hope of getting a fanficrec, but that's the troper's decision to make. However, seeing as you can't self-recommend fics, how do you achieve getting them to give it a shot? And yes, this is for one of my own fanfics, I shamelessly admit that. But the question and desire for an answer is still genuine.
openconcerning the content of "Rape Leads to Insanity"
I've been somewhat concerned for some time about the contents of the trope page Rape Leads to Insanity. Some parts of the description seem to touch on how it is in the real world and then say some things that could be easily misconstrued. For instance, one spot says that it's ultimately the victim's personality rather than the nature of the assault that determines the person's reaction. That's not a far stretch from saying that it's the victim's fault if they're traumatized by rape, especially when you also have entire paragraphs that declare "most" take sexual assault "calmly". Since this was placed right after a note of Truth in Television, it seems that a great deal of care should be taken for both accuracy and sensitivity. It's extremely easy to swing between two extremes here, deliberately or otherwise implying either that trauma is a big enough thing that a visibly stable person probably wasn't really raped, or that it's abnormal to suffer any sort of major breakdown (thus shaming those that do suffer, including a large number that display a good face to hide how much they're hurting). Truth of the matter is, no matter the specific statistics, sexual assault does create a major increase to the risk of numerous trauma-related problems as well as a variety of extremely dangerous methods of self-medication and even suicide, but not a guarantee. Worse, one of the common and more dangerous "coping" mechanisms is basically the Stepford Smiler, putting on a happy face and trying to convince everyone, even themselves, that they're fine when really they're more like a ticking time bomb waiting for the pain to find an out. So information strung along after that Truth in Television label should be carefully worded.
Also, along those lines, is there actual statistical data to demonstrate a significant benefit to the victim when their attacker is caught and dealt with? Beyond the initial matter of said attacker's ability to return of course. I know that many fiction works, particularly law and order type stories, insist that confronting the attacker and making them pay is an important step in the healing process, but I honestly haven't seen any actual studies to back up any real guarantee. Instead, it seems like, similar to other matters, it depends a great deal on both the person and the nature of the trauma: some may be best simply knowing the person won't/can't get to them without ever having to see that face again, while others might not be able to move forward until they've stared their nightmare in the face. The second is more appealing and thus more common in fiction, but is it really also "truth"?
Edited by LyneropenMaking a Unique Page Videogame
Greetings. I've been inquiring about making a special page on the League of Legends
page. Specifically, I want to make a page dedicated to the items in the game. The list of tropes for League of Legends is huge, and I've taken it upon myself to try and clean it up, move character tropes to the character pages, etc. I'd like to do the same with the item tropes, but the path isn't clear.
There's a very similar page on the Destiny
page that is essentially what I'd like to do. Destiny has a page dedicated to the weapons, so that weapon tropes won't clog up the main page. It's essentially what I'm trying to do.
Any assistance?
Edited by Crewxopencharacter image assistance Anime
Hi, I'm requesting assistance with adding a character image to Yan-Min's folder on the Venus Academy page, because her role has become major enough to warrant it. The image I'd suggest is this one.
I figured I'd ask here, since I'm unable to do it myself. Any help would be appreciated.
openWanda Maximoff's 'redemption arc'? Film
How exactly does Wanda have a redemption arc in the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron when she never acknowledged what she did to her actual <i>victims < /i>? We see her happily Mind Raping all the Avengers, especially Tony Stark. And she doesn't blink when she send the Hulk to an innocent city. First think that she does when she 'joins' to the heroes is warning about one of her victims without mention what she did to him. Then she just joins at the battle because she literally saw that she was going to day and well, maybe she still wanted the planet, you know, to live.
But she immediately is made an Avenger and the shit that she did is never mentioned again. On Captain America: Civil War, she seems remorseful for what happened at Lagos but, what about Johannesburg, she just stepped aside and let Tony and Bruce take the blame?
She seems to be 'remorseful' but not because she is interest in the people's well being, but because they are afraid of them and that changes their perception of her as a victim. The novelization does not mention anything either. So, therefore: she lied to keep her position. When Clint comes to 'rescue her', she doesn't change her mind until he says that she will redeem herself.
Her redemption arc is...? A joke? A gigantic double standard?
openStaying Neutral
tdwally just made a huge Imperial-biased edit on Characters.Skyrim Civil War.
I freely admit to being Stormcloak aligned myself, but that page is kindling waiting to be ignited and should be kept as neutral as possible to not piss off half of the fandom. Thoughts?
I would like to point out that one edit compared the Stormcloaks to the Forsworn, basically saying they're no different than a group of cannibals who have committed several acts of mass-murder.
openSelf-Demonstrating Article: Doomguy Videogame
Hello Tv Tropes admins, i need your help because i want to know if it's safe to make another Self-Demonstrating Article, if some admin see this, please answer in the instant so you will make me know, thank you
open"bloat" definition. Web Original
So I stumbled across the useful notes / Asperger syndrome page. Since I myself am an aspie, I naturally thought I could provide *very* helpful input there. But when I clicked the edit button, I was taken to the "locked page" article (I'm somewhat new to this site, so it was only then that I even learned about the lock mechanism). So I did as the description instructed, but saw that the Asperger syndrome article was locked because it "Attracted bloat." Those were the only two words in the entire explanation, and neither were blue. So can someone explain to me what "bloat" is? Also, This Very Wiki falls under Web original, right?
openNotEvilJustMisunderstood, seem to be greatly misundertood
I'm planing to remove many examples from it, and think it's better to post here for record first(because aside from my very recent post the last entry in discussion was from 2014).
I think the trope need better description. The current description put too much emphasis on "Not Evil" part but almost completely ignoring Just Misundertood part. From my impression, a character being "Not Evil" isn't as important as (people) "Just Misundertood" the chaarcter. In this trope context, "evil" is likely include "harmful/dangerous". Lets say we have a Classical Movie Vampire, the character may simply feed for sustain himself and not really malice (not evil), but there's no misunderstanding that he kill and feed on humans. So he can't be this trope, else the description of this trope will be narrowed to "any villain/antagonist that doesn't use For the Evulz as motivation" (which make it People Sit on Chairs).
I think the condition should be that
- The character mean no harm to anyone
- In case that it accidently cause harm (alien mind, Does Not Know His Own Strength, or other reason), it must at least has aversion to does so once become aware of this
- People mistaken its action/intention as harmful one.
Blue-and-Orange Morality shouldn't be excuse here, else there won't be Just Misunderstood part. A robotic army programmed to kill every lives is not evil, and likely not aware that what they're doing is wrong, but there's no misunderstood part - they're really out to kill everything.
Just read the examples, we've "totally evil (Psychopathic Manchild who kills and eats people for fun), but she's raised that way" (no misundertood part), "totally evil, but used to be The Woobie" (no misundertood part, they're dangerous now), "doing evil things but has Well-Intentioned Extremist motive" (Necessarily Evil is still evil, and usually no misunderstood part. A dictator who Take Over the World to bring everlasting peace is still taking over the world with force.) Really, I think it need to be fixed.
Any opinion?
Edited by KuruniopenBuffySpeak self-demonstrating folder titles
There was a Wiki Talk thread
a while ago about changing self-demonstrating folder titles, reaching the consensus that they should be "strongly discouraged", in most cases getting rid of them, and rarely keeping them if they're "concise, witty, and don't mess with clarity too much". In Nov '14, the Buffy Speak article was changed to normal folder titles. In Mar '15, bowserbros reverted to the SD folder titles with no edit reason. I'd like to re-revert them, but it's a big change and also may be construed as an edit war, wanted to check here first.
open Fanworks
Hey, how does one get a fanworks page for their fic? Does someone else have to make it, do you ask someone to or do you do it yourself? I'd really like to know how to get one.

What trope would it be when a work doesn't take itself very seriously, and sometimes teases themselves?
Examples