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openPossible Character-centric Entry Pimping? Videogame
This has been a thing that bugged me for a while, but does anyone else feel that a lot of the entries under Lunafreya's folder on the Final Fantasy XV - Other Allies page come off as shoehorning? Especially considering that while she's a divisive Base-Breaking Character rather than The Scrappy, the part where she's considered to be a Flat Character with minimal screentime is largely unanimous and the divide comes down to whether she was always a shallow and uninteresting character or whether she was originally a rounder character whose depth was all cut out of the game. Hence most of the entries (which were made before the novel that finally fleshes her out was released) come on the back of what appears to be Fan Wank extrapolations rather than supported by the primary text of the game, considering she has so little dialogue, even less interacting with others.
A few of them come from the Kingsglaive movie, which is where the bulk of her screentime and character depth come from, but is also known for being basically a different character from her in-game portrayal. But others seem to be attempting to spin something meaningful out of offhand comments from the flatter in-game depiction that don't actually manifest meaningfully into tropes. I personally don't remember a lot of these entries from when I played it, and at best some of these even appear to be the result of the rather chaotic and inconsistent promotion for the game that often contradicted itself.
Edited by AlleyOopopenBase Breaking Character, Persona 5 Royal. Videogame
The following contains Royal spoilers. You have been warned.
I just noticed this Paragraph from Persona 5 that seriously bugs me:
- Kasumi Yoshizawa was inevitably going to rouse a divide. While some appreciate the steps that were taken to prevent a repeat of the backlash garnered for Marie and see her as a decent character in her own right. Others find that she’s a largely irrelevant character to both the main plot and the third semester where she takes center stage. To some, she's worse than Marie since Marie still enriched the story, and she still managed to come across as friends with the other members of the Investigation Team outside of the protagonist. Sumire, on the other hand, has little to no interaction with the Phantom Thieves who aren't called Joker or Akechi note She does have one scene where Futaba is included, but some would argue that even then it's still about Joker than actually introducing Sumire to a teammate making her feel isolated amongst the Phantom Thieves. Even those who love Sumire tend to agree with her detractors that she was made playable way too late in the game and suffers for it as she exists within a bubble that only floats down whenever Joker's involved. Some see her as being forced into a preexisting story and adds nothing new to the story or to the Phantom Thieves. note Her backstory has been compared to Futaba's. Only this time around really she was responsible for someone's death. Her unhealthy way of coping isn't unlike Yusuke turning a blind eye to Maderame's abuse of his pupils. Her getting angry at the expectations bestowed upon her was Makoto's breaking point. Even her teaching Joker some gymnastics comes across as odd to some since Joker was already performing gymnastic feats without her assistance in the base game and before their Confidant even started. There's also some debate on her Character Development. She either ends the game as a completed person living as Sumire, or she's still living in the shadow of the real Kasumi and Joker at the same time note Those who go for the latter feel that she doesn’t behave any different as Sumire than she does as Kasumi and Sumire goes right back to emulating Kasumi's look at the end of her Confidant (which itself causes some minor debate; Is she just honoring her sister? Is there a better way to do that without making it seem like she's regressing?). Meanwhile, living in Joker's shadow ties right back into the fact that she barely has a life outside of him. And that her preexisting self-esteem issues are just gone when she gets confirmation that Kasumi saw her as an equal and rival the whole time. What can make matters worse is how one feels about Maruki's inclusion, whether or not it's better or worse than how Sumire was handled. Even her entire relationship with Joker is debated upon. It's either one of the more natural Confidants, or Joker is forced into caring about her and is completely out of character around her. note Some have noticed that the player is rarely given the chance to snark at her or criticize her like they can to virtually every other person he comes in contact with. And that her status as the Implied Love Interest is constantly being shoved down players throats note She basically admits to loving Joker at Rank 8, a lot of her designs are meant to mirror Joker, and she's the only character Joker has a Showtime with besides Akechi and arguably hurts her Character development.
I have also been issued a request on Base Breaker Cleanup
to review this.
Basically:
- Many of the arguments in this entry are heavily biased and flawed, for a person who was well-versed with Royal's storyline, at the least
- Guessing and Alternative Character Interpretation that can simply be rebuked within in-game dialogue
- The flaws of this character, as far as where it was left largely unambiguous, is that she barely has any interaction with other PT members and no involvement other than the last month of game, something which has been unambiguously agreed upon. It belongs exactly in They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.
- Character is largely well received in the fandom unlike most entries there.
I've been removed the paragraph for now, if anyone else adds it the next time, I leave it alone until further notice, because someone added it back earlier on and I don't want this to degenerate into an edit war.
Edited by Mr-ex777openScreamer Trailer description issue?
I read through the trope description, and...it's not the best in my opinion. It's self-demonstrating, of course, but it keeps giving me that early website trope description vibe which I'm not a big fan of. What do y'all think about it?
open MainstreamObscurity Western Animation
YMMV.Sonic The Hedgehog Sat AM had this added by Eagle70:
"Mainstream Obscurity: [[invoked]] This is a Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon, the first one to ever enter production, and arguably the most ambitious. It was also put under strict mandates and heavily preempted in most markets, and cancelled in a network buyout, only to have the franchise completely change gears in 1996, leaving this cartoon looking like an In Name Only adaptation. Despite the popularity of it's long running comic book spinoff and the show itself getting significant
critical
acclaim
from most reviews, the cartoon itself is hardly watched by most of the fandom. Additionally, the notriously broken Sonic fandom has elements that tend to hate the show and it's characters for not resembling more modern titles, despite not really knowing anything about the show beyond the premise."
I feel like this could be shorted significantly and with less potholes and bashing at the end, but am not entirely sure what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Also it kinda is an In Name Only adaptation; per InNameOnly.Western Animation, AoSTH was the closest to the games until Sonic X.
" Besides the overall theme of nature vs. machinery, the only things Sonic the Hedgehog (Sat AM) has in common with the games are Sonic, Tails (who was Demoted to Extra), the rings (which here act as a Deus ex Machina device), Buzzbombers (which only appeared in the pilot), and Robotnik (who looked quite different from his appearance in the games and was substantially more fearsome than any other interpretation of the character). This does not stop it from being one of the more highly regarded Sonic adaptations. "
Edited by lalalei2001openFar too much detail
Last year, we decided to remove the creepy, overly detailed examples about Krystal.
Well, when I noticed that they are still at VaporWear.Video Games and Chainmail Bikini, I checked the histories for these pages and for Super Smash Bros. - Assist Trophies and it turns out that no one ever did. And now Eagle70 has taken upon himself to make sure that they stay there. Note that Eagle
and the person who originally added these entries
have very different edit patterns, so they are very unlikely to be the same person.
In short, should those examples be deleted, be rewritten, or stay as they are?
Edited by ChytusopenHow many wicks does a page need before it gets removed from PagesNeedingWicks?
So, I have been crosswicking under-used tropes so they can be remved from Pages Needing Wicks and I have wondered how many wicks does page need to not end up on the list. In the past, 16 wicks was what the page said was the cutoff point but that part has since been removed. I personally like remove tropes when they reach the 20-30 wick mark.
EDIT: Wait, According to the page itself, anything that is within the standard ranking (24-56 for tropes older than 3 years old and 12-14 for new tropes) on wick needs to be removed. So I guess that is the answer..
Edited by MacronNotesopenPossibly Biased Editing on the Glee YMMV Page. Live Action TV
lakingsif edited and removed a couple entries on the YMMV page for Glee, claiming that they were "defending homophobia" even though I honestly fail to see how (I'm bi and thus part of the LGBT community myself; there's no way that I would genuinely try to defend homophobia). They were also one of the main editors for the TV Tropes Glee recaps (which, if I'm not mistaken, have actually popped up here on Ask The Tropers a couple times), and it's clear from the tone of these recaps, as well as some of the edits previously mentioned, that they really hate the character Finn Hudson, usually choosing to interpret his actions in the worst possible way and also consistently downplaying the flaws of characters like Quinn and especially Santana. Their edits seem really shoehorned and complain-y, with things like referring to Finn as "acting like the hetero savior of the gays", and many entries were deleted without any real explanation. I know it's a YMMV page and it's for more subjective reactions and all, but I feel like this is a little excessive.
Here are the edits in question: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Glee#edit26500052
openBatman Beyond videos Western Animation
A lot of the video examples for Batman Beyond specifically come from Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. However, the trope page for Return of the Joker does not itself have video examples. Shouldn't the videos be attributed to Return of the Joker instead of/in addition to the main series?
openEntry Butchering on Shadowrun Storytime Web Original
I remember Shadowrun Storytime having a full on character list and funny/nightmare fuel list, as well as a few others, but now they're all gone and the page itself is unindexed. Is this data loss or has someone gone and butchered it?
openShould Ferris (from Re:Zero) Be considered Transgender? Anime
Hi, I'm new to posting here, though I've browsed for longer. I'm a fan of the book series ReZero
, but what caught my interest while browsing the trope page was the fact that in the Re Zero Character Sheet Ferris is listed as a crossdressing boy, yet in the Transgender page Ferris is also listed as a transwoman. I think that these are conflicting statements or something. and a bit confusing? Idk. But I wanted to know whether Ferris should be considered a trans girl or a crossdressing boy.
Now. I personally believe that Ferris is a trans woman having read the bulk of the series. And these are some of my reasoning's as to why. Sorry if this is too long.
- Ferris legally goes by Felix Argyle, but she wishes to be called Ferris. In her introduction she reiterates to her boss that being called Felix upsets her,
and that "It's Ferris, Not Felix." Her birth name is rarely used in the story. This is akin to a trans person's deadname.
- In the side novel EX 1, it is shown that not even Fourier, one of her best friends, was aware that she had another name that she never used,
as Ferris does not like talking about the past, to the point where she doesn't tell people her birth name.
- In the side novel EX 1, it is shown that not even Fourier, one of her best friends, was aware that she had another name that she never used,
- In the English books, Ferris is addressed with male pronouns after her introduction. yet in the japanese version, she frequently uses feminine pronouns, this fact is also stated on the character sheet.
- Most importantly, there is a scene in her side novel Volume EX 1 which shows that for the last 6 years, Ferris has been praying to be a girl,
reaffirming herself everyday when she is alone in the mirror. The Narrator goes on to state that she no longer had to say these words, as they were already apart of the person who spoke them for 6 years.
- There is also a scene in EX 1 which shows that she dreaded coming out to Fourier about her birth gender, as she feared that, like other people, he would no longer want to be her friend.
- Ferris also states that she will never wear men's clothes again. In an interview on Twitter, the Author stated that the one time she wore men's clothes, she actually cried.
- And there is also the small fact that Ferris has been in a couple of video game crossovers that feature them in all-girls casts. I just figured I might add that in.
I know of a popular counterargument that might be brought up. That one is that Ferris in Arc 4 says that "He is a man in heart and soul" according to fan translations of the Web Novel. However, in the Official Light Novel release, This line is omitted and replaced with a line that reads "This outfit is a reflection of my body and spirit." I feel this has a much different meaning than the former line, as the outfit Ferris wears is a girls outfit, and it doesn't seem to imply that she identifies as male. This line is omitted in Volume 10 of the Light Novel, which the author considers to be the final version of the book series. Arc 4 was also released in 2013, when EX 1 and Volume 10 were released post 2015.
All-in-all, these points, alongside other evidence I didn't mention, are why I also think Ferris is trans, and I'd like to know what to make of this.
Edited by SneekshionopenForeign language video examples: are they allowed?
I have video example idea that I feel demonstrates a trope very well, but it’s from a French TV show that has no official translation in English, and it’s a dialogue related trope. My questions are:
- Am I allowed to use it in the first place?
- If so, am I allowed to use an existing fansub of the show?
- If not, should I add subtitles myself?
- If it shouldn't have subtitles, should I put the translation in the description?
Edited by arimothereindeeropenYMMV / TheLastOfUsPartII
Removing non-YMMV items from YMMV.The Last Of Us Part II when I found this:
- Informed Wrongness: Part of why Ellie's depiction is divisive. Ellie goes on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge, same as the other playable character Abby, however many felt that the game condoned Abby's revenge quest, while condemning Ellie's.
It does not condone Abby's revenge. It condones Abby realizing revenge was wrong and making a more successful attempt to give it up than Ellie (the problems with that are covered under Unintentionally Unsympathetic). And I think the only way attempting to kill like Ellie intended isn't morally wrong is self-defense which isn't the case here. Thoughts?
openIssue with HairDecorations on Characters.HopeOfTheShieldHero
So, on Characters.Hope Of The Shield Hero, Hair Decorations was removed by a troper doing cleanup (although to be fair that person didn't use an edit reason) and was added back by Allen Blaster and then the same trope/disambig was removed by another troper doing clean up and then Allen Blaster added it back again.
Granted he just changed it to Never Bare Headed a second after I posted this but he didnt rewrite the entry to fit that trope so it's technically still a ZCE but I dont want to edit it without feedback since I would be participating in an Edit war at this point.
The former Hair decs entry in question that now links to Never Bareheaded:
- Never Bareheaded: The two blue ribbons she uses to tie up her Girlish Pigtails.
EDIT: Also the same troper added back Lolicon on the same page after it was removed for not being a trope stating even if it isnt one it still belongs on the character page and that basically someone who hasnt read the fic has no right to remove it.
I guess he is taking these clean ups personally since he wrote the fic itself.
Edited by MacronNotesopenJust removed this from Gamebooks
For the record, I've removed this entry from Gamebooks.
- Listened to in sequential order, Kendrick Lamar’s album “DAMN” is about the protagonist coming to terms with his own flaws and learning to love himself despite them. If played backwards, it’s about his descent into madness and self-loathing.
I mean, seriously?
openRegarding an entry on the Main.{{Jerkass}} page
Just ran across this at the end of the Main.Jerkass page (here's the history
):
There may be some offensive language (i.e. "punk" being changed to "you faggot") in there. What's the best possible way we can do about this?
Edited by gjjonesopen Weird Awesome entries Live Action TV
On Victorious there's this weird entries that seems to argue with over if an example counts self. Here they are:
- Tori and friends taking revenge on Manipulative Bastard Ryder in "Begging On Your Knees", along with his ex-girlfriends. Seeing such a Smug Snake of a villain given a well deserved Humiliation Conga, priceless!
- Tori does it again in "Prom Wrecker", By crowning Jade as the prom queen and Doug the Diaper Guy as prom king, as a "discreet" revenge for Jade almost ruining Tori's hard-worked Prom. And to top it all off, a song by Tori, Cat and Andre to close the deal!
- This one is a little less awesome when you consider that Tori ruined Jade's exhibition by taking over the space it would have occupied (which Jade had booked first), blatantly refused to cancel it, and never once apologized for screwing up the show that Jade had presumably been putting together for several weeks. Sure, Jade might have crossed a line with her retaliation, but Tori wasn't exactly in the right either.
- Some see that as an over-riding Humiliation Conga for Jade, especially for her slap-on-the-wrist punishment for nearly killing Tori and Robbie in Tori Gets Stuck, but overall that episode had an awkward feel as there seemed to be an easy compromise to the scheduling conflict that was ignored simply for Rule of Funny.
- A smaller one but when Beck puts Jade in a time out for being mean to Tori (which she actually does).
Is this allowed?
openShould Win Back The Crowd get a Cleanup thread?
I noticed a lot of examples where it was being used to describe prerelease stuff and not the actual work: This example from YMMV.Soul Calibur VI for example:
- Win Back the Crowd: This is pretty much an Enforced Trope. Okubo stated
that the damage caused by V put the franchise on thin ice; if this game fails, the Soul series will completely fade from the stages of history. Therefore, they're going all out with nothing to lose.
- From the moment VI was announced, there were already signs that this is in action. Many declared the series to be dead after nearly six years without anything major (apart from free-to-play, mobile, and pachinko machines, but that doesn't count) and the last game itself was polarizing to say the least. Comparatively speaking, the reception to this game's announcement was highly positive, a sentiment that only intensified when it became clear that the game would not follow the largely unpopular Time Skip from V, allowing old favorites to return once again and proving one's love for the series wasn't limited to the days of old.
- It's clear that this has been Project Soul's goal from Day 1. The game takes the best aspects of past games and does its best to improve and add to them, all while giving a fresh start to the series after a convoluted lore and a derided Time Skip backed the story into a corner. Basically, it's a new starting point and a second chance that many felt the series needed, and many would say that things can only go up from here.
- Okubo's promise that Soulcalibur VI will look to be a good game first, and an eSport second is also a sign of this. Many haven't been pleased that games lately have skimmed on content or made censorship among other compromises with the excuse being "we want this to be played in professional gaming". While Okubo stated he does have plans to make it accessible to professionals, the plan is to worry about that after the basics are covered.
- That being said, the tournament crowd is absolutely thrilled with how the game plays so far, stating that it takes what was good about V and improves upon it while adding new ideas to make the game feel more distinct and less like Street Fighter.
- Libra of Soul finally gives players the sequel to III's Chronicles of the Sword they've been asking for since it was introduced back in 2005. It's expected that this mode will be as addictive as its predecessor, and the reception to finally getting a mode like this again has been very positive.
- VI getting an easy ticket to the main stage in EVO 2019 came as an absolute joy to the fanbase, as unlike other games, Soulcalibur didn't have to make a single compromise to be enjoyed by all, casual players and professionals alike — it's just that well-made.
Not to mention the fact that it's also listed on works that didn't have a crowd untill the recent installment (That's Win The Crowd) and series that didn't lose fans despite a bad installment.
Edited by PlasmaPower

I noticed that two Useful Notes pages contradict each other. UsefulNotes.Fascism claims that The Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement:
Ku Klux Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement. Born out of a reaction against the Reconstruction after The American Civil War, it aimed at recreating the old order of the South by putting the freed slaves and the carpetbaggers in their place (which should be understood as lynching and intimidation).
The importance of religion in shaping the American view of self also meant that Christianity (understood as Protestantism) played a much larger role within the Ku Klux Klan; they combine the religious views of falangism (but pro-Protestant instead of pro-Catholic) with the racial views of national socialism.
But UsefulNotes.Ku Klux Klan specifically denies this idea and argues against it:
What should we do about this discrepancy? Considering Wikipedia takes the position that the Klan was not fascist (the white-robed bastards are conspicuously absent from their fascism template), I think we should replace the bit about them with a discussion of the Silver Legion of America
.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO