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openQuestionable WMGs
Recently, I have come across a few WMG pages/entries that may go against the rules.
- The Mysterious Mr. Enter. Most of the entries are about his reviews and what he'll review next, which is fine. However, there are a couple that are based on him as a person. The first WMG in particular is downright absurd, considering it's talking about a real life personnote by contrast, the "Mr. Enter will turn into an enter keyboard button" entry seems to be referring to his avatar, not him as a person.
- Perfect Hair Forever only has one entry, and it's about the show being brought back for another season (or at least more episodes). While WMG guesses are supposed to be about what happens in the work itself, this one skirts the line a bit, although the reason given seems to lean more into the "not allowed" territory; it basically says the show may get more episodes just to fill more Adult Swim timeslots. Speaking of which...
- Adult Swim is the one that really stuck out. Entries about Adult Swim execs take the piss out of anime, blaming Adult Swim for both Cartoon Network's downfall and a bomb scare, and guessing Adult Swim's schedule in the years to come (which may go against WMG rules, but is comparatively tame compared to some of the other entries).
openSlowly Slipping into Evil
This example was under the real life section of Slowly Slipping Into Evil:
- The subject of this journal article
made friends with a drug dealer, then started to help him run his gang, then shot a man in self-defense... By the end of his criminal career, he had killed fifteen people and was prepared to commit murder merely to "safeguard his reputation".
The article is legitimately fascinating, but I feel like this should be an obvious No Real Life Examples, Please!? Shouldn't it?
Edited by jjjj2openWhat to do with SelfDemonstrating/GLaDOS page?
Apparently a couple weeks back, a change was made to the smallcaps formatting to make it automatically line break whenever used. I have no opinion on that in particular, but it has the side effect of destroying the GLaDOS page, which used a huge amount of smallcaps formatting as part of the joke.
What's the best way to address fixing the page? It would be a massively tedious effort to fix by hand. It seems like it deserves a vote on what action to take, whether some kind of change, rewriting from scratch, or even deletion.
open"The Pete Best" Trivia page -- Real Life folder and music entry
While looking at the Trivia entry The Pete Best, I noticed a couple things that look problematic. Specifically:
-the Real Life folder contains not just people, but inanimate objects such as record labels, geographical places, theme parks, locomotives, and letters of the English alphabet. Not only is it hard to see justification for the entries, am thinking this doesn't even apply to non-sentient beings.
-in the Music page
for this entry, there's a folder that says "Trope Namer." Rightly, it includes Pete Best himself, but it also contains an entry for Stuart Sutcliff, who was also an early member of The Beatles, but obviously isn't Pete Best himself. Am thinking this should be moved elsewhere (to the "B" folder).
Would appreciate feedback before acting on these two issues. Thanks!
openRemoving redlinks issue?
Troper NFSF1McLaren went into the page for The La's and removed several redlinks I had inserted into the page back several months ago. In some cases, it's okay to do, such as for the pothole I had created for the group's self-titled album. I had reverted some of these examples after ill-advisedly putting them in under circumstances like this one, but didn't catch them all.
But they also did so for a pop group name and ones I had done for three band members names and the album's producer, which I'm less sure about — especially given that they gave the edit reason as "Removed unused links." My understanding is that it's not okay to systematically strip out redlinks just because they're redlinks. Then again, I could be too fussy here on these specific examples.
Would appreciate some feedback on this. Thanks!
Edited by BoltDMCopenPossible misuse of narm Live Action TV
The YMMV page of Superman & Lois has two entries of Narm, both from the pilot, which read:
- The dramatic intensity with which Clark confesses his origin story to Jon and Jordan can be so over-the-top in a "well, when you say it like that, this whole thing is actually pretty silly" kind of way. With the way it's played out, you'd almost expect for Clark to laugh and yell "just kidding!" instead of proving himself by lifting the truck.
- Nobody at the party noticing Jordan using his heat vision during the brawl, even though he's surrounded by dozens of people, some of whom are filming the brawl. Makes the emotional and shocking scene seem unintentionally comedic.
I have to ask, is this valid? Narm only applies for moments that are meant to be taken seriously but instead come off as hilarious, not moments that either fall flat or just don't have the intended effect.
openPokemon The Series divisions
Just out of academic curiosity, who split the Pokemon anime pages up according to season/series? It's something I'd actually been thinking about doing myself for months but never got around to it. I want to give major props to whoever did so, especially since they did it all on Pokemon Day.
openComplaining and speculation of the Holy Terror trivia page
I was looking at the trivia page for Holy Terror and noticed some examples that struck me as questionable:
- Divorced Installment: The story was originally meant to be a Batman story set in the "Millerverse" called Holy Terror, Batman!, a nod to Robin's "Holy (whatever!)" Mad Libs Catch Phrase from the '60s Batman series. (Miller was probably not aware of an Elseworlds tale already called Batman: Holy Terror.) Supposedly, Frank Miller decided to take the book to Legendary because he realized it was "not a Batman story" and the hero was "much closer to Dirty Harry than Batman". A much more popular theory is that DC Comics refused to let this be an actual Batman story, partially due to the fact that Bob Schreik (who had been pushing for Miller) had been laid off by DC and went over to Legendary. The last part is pure speculation. At the very least it could be rewritten to be less snarky.
- Lying Creator: Frank Miller stated he took Holy Terror to Legendary because it was "not a Batman story" (See Divorced Installment) However, when reading Holy Terror, it still shares much in common with Frank Miller's Batman works, from similar costume designs to characters resembling said works and even recurring tropes from his previous works. When the characters' outfits are basically Batman and Catwoman minus the ears, not-Catwoman even saves herself from a fall with claws in her gloves and talks about having nine lives, Donegal is a totally unaltered Jim Gordon, and we get post-meme-ASBAR-style spamming of the word "Goddamn," it's obvious that the Batman serial numbers were filed off very late in production. And again, throw in the fact that Miller moved when (and where) the guy pushing for the story did. This has led to the theory that Frank Miller lied and that DC refused to make it a Batman story. Again, this is speculation and comes off as creator bashing.
I get that Holy Terror is controversial, but that stuff is supposed to stay off the trivia page.
openWhy are some tropers hesitant to launch pages?
This question is nothing more but curiosity.
I noticed that some drafts on the launch pad are very above the minimum requirements, but don't even have word of a launch date; Many examples enough to qualify, a pretty good draft, more than enough hats, proposed months or even years ago, etc. The requirements in theory seems pretty minimal, so in these cases what exactly is the problem?
I have zero intention to launch any of these myself, of course. Nor do I want to push any one in particular. Is there just some unwritten rule I'm not aware of?
Edited by PikaRoboopenEdit war(?)...in custom WikiWord display?
I have some concerns regarding the page Bug Fables. Right now it displays as Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. What concerns me, however, is that the page name just uses two words: 'Bug Fables', and the custom display just changes the page name to the game's full title. And the thing that worries me even more is that this custom display was already used before some long time ago, and was, for some reason, got reverted back to just 'Bug Fables' at some point of time. And now, several days ago, it's back at 'Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling'. Also, it prompts people to wick the redirect to the work page instead of the work page itself, and it bugs me.
I'd like to ask: is this acceptable to have the full title as custom display when the link itself uses the shortened title? And does this fall under the definition of the "edit war"?
Hope my wording doesn't confuse you.
Edited by I--Vanya--IopenAre we allowed to link to fan translations
I decided to clean up a No Export for You entry for Valkyria Chronicles III for being complainy, but I'm not too sure about leaving links to fan translations. Don't we typically don't allow that?
The entry in question:
- Unfortunately Valkyria Chronicles III will never see the light outside Japan as a PSP game. This is mainly due to Sega's decision shoot itself in the foot by making the sequel a PSP game instead of a PS3 game like the original. The original sold better in the West than in Japan (due in part to the PS3's international popularity), but since the PSP was thriving in Japan but dying in the West, the game sold poorly outside of the Japanese market. Poor foreign sales led to Sega deciding not to export Valkyria Chronicles 3. Thankfully, the PSP's region-free nature makes it easy to import the game, and an English patch is available here http://vc3translationproject.wordpress.com/about/
openIs there an Alternative Character Interpretation cleanup?
Title is self-explanatory but I'll explain anyway. Alternative Character Interpretation an item that is very susceptible to shoehorning, and often attracts exaggeration along the lines of Ron the Death Eater and Draco in Leather Pants. One page that reeks of this is AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Bo Jack Horseman, which was created by a troper who had a problem with complaining and has a lot of rambling about interpretations I've never heard from any other fan of the show. Is there a cleanup thread to discuss certain examples that might be too farfetched to make sense, are the opinion of a single fan, etc?
Edited by mightymewtronopen ReedRichardsIsUseless misuse?
- Retroactively happens in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic during the events of The Cutie Re-Mark when Twilight Sparkle and Spike both travel into the "Changeling Resistance Timeline" where they enter an Equestria where Chrysalis was never defeated. Both come across a La Résistance led by Zecora who has with her a Salve that is designed to forcibly strip a Changeling of their disguise when applied, and the two of them never bothered to ask Zecora for a jar to take back to reverse-engineer, or a list of ingredients to help make some back in the main timeline, or even ask their own Zecora if it was possible to make it themselves. This ended up biting them in the ass when The Mane Six, Spike, The Royal Sisters, Cadence, Shining Armor, and Flurry Heart all get captured by the main timelines' Queen Chrysalis and replaced by Changelings two seasons later.
This was added by Ohvist, which I removed citing Twilight had a spell to remove changeling disguises meaning it would be unnecessary/not enough to prevent what happened. Ohvist added it back with the addition of "While it was shown that Twilight could dispell a disguised Changeling by herself without the salve back in the events of A Canterlot Wedding, it was only because she knew they were possible Changelings, and not every Unicorn would know how to master the spell, and it still leaves the Pegasi and Earth Ponies vulnerable since they cannot cast spells to begin with."
I still think it's misuse as Reed Richards Is Useless is about not using fantastical things for other mundane problems, this is not using the fantastical thing for the fantastical problem it was originally meant for. There's also a whole lot of speculation or debatability with it (the salve would only be useful if one suspected one of being a changeling which wouldn't have avoided this as they figured it out on their own and the plot was rescuing them, we don't know how they were captured in the first place or any limitations of the salve, maybe Zecora couldn't develop the salve without changeling magic to practice with) I'm not sure if it's valid to move to another trope like Forgotten Phlebotinum. Should this be cut and/or moved to Head Scratchers?
openEdit war
Back in 2018, I added this to the YMMV page for Memoirs of a Geisha here
:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Sayuri about three-quarters through the book. Though she starts off very sympathetic in her Trauma Conga Line and Break the Cutie moments, it becomes very clear that she's willing to do pretty much anything just to get with the Chairman. This includes screwing over her closest companions and showing no remorse for doing so. Values Dissonance also ensues once it's revealed that the Chairman was married the whole time.
The Lucky Cat added this subbullet to it:
- However, given the time period and constraints on women are the time, Sayuri is often forced into doing things she doesn't want to do, either by Mother or Mameha, it's somewhat understandable that she'd do anything she could to try and achieve some lasting happiness, as the only alternative is to be forced into a loveless relationship or spend the rest of her life as a maid. Her choices are to either suffer her entire life or screw over a couple of people to get what she wants, and it's shown she feels terrible about the way things broke down between her and Nobu, but she simply wanted to be with the man she loved and unfortunately couldn't pursue him freely until a lot of hardship is thrown her way.
Lucky Cat also added lines to the Unintentionally Sympathetic entry for Nobu. Originally the entry said that Nobu came off as justifiably angry because Sayuri led him on and betrayed him, while Lucky Cat's addition (which begins with "However") is that Nobu comes off as Entitled to Have You and tried to make Sayuri indebted to him.
Queen of Swords deleted the subbullet for Unintentionally Unsympathetic for being Natter and being a justifying edit.
Last December, Lucky Cat edited the Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry to this:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Sayuri about three-quarters through the book. Though she starts off very sympathetic in her Trauma Conga Line and Break the Cutie moments, it becomes very clear that she's willing to do pretty much anything just to get with the Chairman, though like she herself points out, it's either that or be little more than an indentured servant to Mother for the rest of her life and much of her career was orchestrated by Mameha and The Chairman. Values Dissonance also ensues once it's revealed that the Chairman was married the whole time.
This seems like an edit war to me, and the new edit still seems justifying. Can I get some feedback from other Tropers?
Edited by iamconstantineopenWhen is Spider-Man and Superman gonna get a self demonstrating article Literature
Question supes and spidey had one, but now they dont could this change one day?
openNotSoWellIntentionedExtremist misuse?
After seeing a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist example removed I question this example:
- Starlight Glimmer from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. In "The Cutie Map – Part 1" and "Part 2", she rules over a town where she collects the villagers' Cutie Marks, which removes their individual special talents — sometimes taking them forcefully, then brainwashing the ponies into accepting their place in her kid-friendly Harrison Bergeron cult. Ostensibly, Starlight does this because she believes true friendship can only come through perfect equality, which in turn is only possible when everyone is equally (in)competent. But she retains her own considerable talent for magic, suggesting that she's really more interested in power than in equality. When called out on this hypocrisy, Starlight claims that it was necessary, because her own magic is needed to equalize everyone else. It's debatable whether she actually believes this, or is just covering her ass. And then Starlight reveals her past in "The Cutie Re-Mark – Part 2'': she was heartbroken when her childhood friend, Sunburst, earned his Cutie Mark and moved away to pursue his special talent in magic, leaving Starlight behind as a result. Because of that, she blamed Cutie Marks for what happened between her and Sunburst and became a cult leader just to ensure that any other friends she made would never be taken away by their Cutie Marks and leave her behind again. She possibly straddles the line between this trope and Well-Intentioned Extremist, depending on how much she believes her own lies — a point the show is ambiguous about.
I'm fairly sure she was supposed to genuinely well-intentioned, the issues being weak writing as opposed to intent, for the following:
- She's genuinely remorseful and becomes The Atoner after seeing the consequences of her actions and learning a better way. A NSWIE would be too selfish to ever accept such.
- "Re-Mark" shows Starlight sincerely believed her rhetoric.
- She's Easily Forgiven by said village which wouldn't have happened if she were meant to be as unsympathetic as NSWID is meant to imply.
- "She possibly straddles the line" sounds like Weasel Words.
This sounds more like Secretly Selfish which I believe is different from NSWIE in that the character is still presented sympathetically.
I'm also asking MLP cleanup
, but am asking here to as general question about how to separate genuine Well-Intentioned Extremist going too far and losing sight of their goals from Not-So in the event of ambiguity.
My impression is that if they're capable of regretting their actions if seeing they're more harmful than good, that's the difference between genuinely well-intention and not-so.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaughtopen Rudeness
I'm concerned that the troper Nepworks is being rather rude to people. They're being pretty confrontational and mean on this TLP draft
; while a lot of tropers including myself have concerns about the draft, they're being the most aggressive about it. They're also being rather mocking on this TF query
.
open More on... A Serbian Film
Yeah, remember everyone's favourite Torture Porn documentary?
It turns out while the main page itself is left intentionally blank for a decade due to controversial content, there is still a Sandbox page for this film (EDIT: Over here). Which kind of defeats the purpose of... uh, NOT allowing the page in the first place?
What to do about this?
Edited by RobertTYL

So, a work I've been sucked into hard and think would make a great tropes page. There's one thing that's giving me pause.
It's hosted on a site called adultfanfiction.
Now, it's not a pornographic story per se, there are sex scenes and they are described in detail, but no more so than some other mature-themed literature. And given the story's length (147 chapters currently, not sure if that makes it a Long Runner, Doorstopper, or both) they make up a very small percentage of the overall story, with most of them occurring earlier in the work.
I know we tend not to trope actual porn, but some Porn with Plot works are troped on the site. My main concern is if posting a link to the story itself in the trope page would be against the rules, invite unwanted traffic to TvTropes, etc.
I'm also not sure what to categorize it. It's not a fanfiction, as it's not based on any other work or franchise, it's a completely original tale with the author's own original characters, set in a version of our real world (a throwaway line in a recent chapter states the Play Station 5 is out, but no hint of the COVID-19 Pandemic). But I'm also not sure a work hosted on a fanfiction site, even one that allows original works (especially one with "adult" in the name) qualifies for entry in Literature.
The story is called "She Is The One," and centers around Jack Harrison, the protagonist and narrator, the luckiest unlucky smartest idiot ever. We catch up with him the first day of his sophmore year of high school, when he meets newly-arrived literal Girl Next Door Kayla Hannigan. It isn't quite Love at First Sight, but there is a rapid connection between them, and the first several chapters are devoted to them becoming the story's Official Couple. The core of the story is their relationship, especially how love doesn't conquer all. . . Jack and Kayla really do truly love each other, but both have to work hard to keep their relationship going. Especially in the face of high school drama, exceptionally dramatic even by high school standards, including three different incestuous relationships, a gun in a locker, a bona fide evil scheme, one of the most brutal schoolyard brawls ever, and an intramural prostitution ring, among other things. Eventually, the action moves to college as Jack and Kayla attend Iowa State University, where things are a bit less dramatic (up until The Pipe Bomb Incident, at least). Along the way, we meet a cast of colorful characters who drift in and out of Jack's life, including Rhona, the acerbic GameStop employee with constantly changing hair colors, Joe and Brad, Jack's best friends, Craig, his starting high school nemesis and initial rival for Kayla's affections, Jessica the Alpha Bitch, Jack's exuberant running enthusiast cousin Tara, and Jack's twin siblings Alan and Amanda. The cast expands greatly in college as Jack makes friends in and out of ISU's theater department.
Has a Shared Universe with another author's stories, posted on the same site, "Being More Social" and it's companion tale "Only If You Want." They're both shorter and with more sex than "She Is The One," and the crossover is minimal: only one character, I think, appears in both stories (for less than a chapter in "She Is The One," though he's referenced a few more times); references mainly exist as friendly meta jokes and jabs from one fic to the other.
Anyway. . . is this tropable?
Edited by ErikModi