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openStrawman Has a Point in Godzilla King of the Monsters 2019 Film
Troper Derv0s B 2 added this to Strawman Has a Point in the YMMV page of Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019):
"A surprising number of viewers reacted this way to the government's Gotta Kill 'Em All demands regarding the Titans. Said viewers argue that while the ending proves The Extremist Was Right, with what little the human race knows about the Titans at the film's start, the demand comes off as highly understandable. Of course, this argument ignores the fact that Monarch have already established before the film's start that the Titans are ecologically essential, and that the government are basically getting it into their heads that they somehow know better than the professional Titan experts."
I think the fact that the entry argues with itself disqualifies it for the trope. What do you say?
openRaya and the Last Dragon - Villain has a Point Western Animation
This has been added and removed by various tropers, the most recent of which is rva98014:
- Villain Has a Point: Downplayed. Namaari isn't a villain so much as she is the story's antagonist, but towards the climax, she's not wrong when she soberly points out two things. First, she tells Raya that while Sisu was the bigger person and bothered to trust Namaari, the disasterous outcome happened because Raya didn't trust Sisu's judgement nor anyone else. Second, although Namaari bringing a crossbow played a part in Sisu's Disney Death, Raya causing the misfire technically makes it Raya's fault as well.
For some context, the hero accidentally causes a crossbow bolt to kill a supporting character who could have saved the world. The person who she made accidentally shoot said character blames her, and the animation supports this.
Can we get a consensus, here? For the record, I really do think it was solely Namaari's fault, but it's not supported in the movie itself, and Word of God hasn't said anything on if both characters were in the right/wrong.
Edited by FishiousRendopenCan someone in the production of something become an EnsembleDarkhorse?
I know the trope is meant to be applied to characters in a show itself, but with how easy it is nowadays for crew members, writers, directors, etc to interact with the fans and give insight on what goes on behind the scene or interesting info in general that it's sometimes led those people to become as popular in the fandom as the characters they're helping to create.
openBiased edits on page Anime
On the Sk8 the Infinity page, there was some biased information heavily favoring the ship Reki/Langa. I edited out that stuff last night and told them to add it to YMMV, because the ship isn't canon yet and might not become canon. So far all there's been is typical sports anime fanservice. Today someone added it back saying:
"langa's "ambiguously gay" isn't THAT ambiguous despite being placed under there for now (especially for anime which have to work around censors) so Power of Love fits (he essentially gasps and blushes when asked if he likes reki [question assumed by him], then realizes the "feeling" that makes him fly in ep9). if he suddenly goes "actually no homo bro" out loud in-series it'd be better filed under power of friendship. (unless tvtr doesn't list, ex., nge's kaworu under romantic tropes... he's only Very Heavily implied to be a love interest of shinji.) the power of love + mythical motifs is about his feelings, not reki's. ia the "romantic-tinged" was pretty ham"
I strongly disagree with this. Also another biased thing they put in the page was: "While it's It's apparent that Reki feels as if he can't reach Langa (and the star), unknowingly to Reki and Langa and the increasing tension that builds between them over it, for Langa, the star likely stands for Reki himself)."
For Langa the star didn't hold any significance. It was just a graffiti target on the wall that he could do a cool skateboarding trick with. Reki was the one who worked himself up about the star trying to reach it while Langa wasn't around.
Is there anything I can do? I don't want to be involved in an edit war, but this stuff is just flat out wrong. The user perona keeps edit warring and adding incorrect info to the page.
Edited by sakanoopenIs fast-tracking a proposed page possible?
I checked if there's already a Pro Wrestling of the 2020s page and turns out there still isn't. A lot has happened in the wrestling world within the past year so there's ought to be a page now.
My cousin actually proposed one
in TLP last year (I believe it was even before the global lockdown). I tried creating one myself since it's taking too long but no avail so I'm asking now if fast-tracking it is possible (since it's an index page of an entire genre, and honestly because I'm itching to contribute in wrestling contents).
openTrope-page entry for broadly used comic book character
I've got several characters with similar situations, but lets focus on ComicBook.Hellcat
She's a Cat Girl, and as such, deserves to be on the Cat Girl trope page, but:
- She has no specific "home" work
- The details of how she fits the trope vary based on which work we are reading.
How should she be entered? I know that trope pages are not supposed to link directly to Character pages...
- Hellcat of various Marvel Comics:
- In The Avengers #144, Patsy Walker took the name "Hellcat" on assuming the powered costume abandoned by Tigra.
- In Heroes Reborn, Hellcat is a Composite Character of her traditional Patsy Walker identity and the Tigra werecat abilities.
- Hellcat's Ultimate Marvel self gets her abilities from Loki.
Should this block be alphabetized as "Hellcat"? Should each bullet be listed alphabetized under the work title? Should all of them just be thrown under a "Marvel Comics" bullet, along with several other characters, including Tigra and Black Cat?
openWhat Do I Call This? Print Comic
I want to make a page for the current Iron Man comic. The problem is, with current naming convention (I was recently told we're moving away from using the writer's name in the work name), the only thing to really name it is Iron Man 2020 because it started last year and isn't part of some publishing initiative or anything.
Except... there already is an Iron Man 2020. Two, in fact. The Iron Man 2020 page is used by a series that is legitimately called Iron Man 2020, which is itself reusing a name from a graphic novel also called Iron Man 2020.
What should I call the page for Iron Man Comic That Started In 2020? And should we make Iron Man 2020 a disambiguation page for both Iron Man Comic That Started in 2020 and Comic Called Iron Man 2020 From the Year 2020?
Edited by FuzzyBarbarianopenRise of Skywalker examples ready to be added?
On YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker, there are some It Was His Sled examples commented out with a note added in December 2019
saying "It's too early to tell if this applies for a very spoilerific movie. Wait for a time until the spoilers are properly ingrained into pop culture." Here are the examples, none of which were written by me:
- It Was His Sled: This is a Star Wars movie, after all. The fact that several of the plot twists were already leaked prior to the film's release doesn't help.
- Rey is revealed to be the granddaughter of Emperor Palpatine.
- Kylo Ren has a Heel–Face Turn then sacrifices himself to save Rey, just like his grandpa.
- Rey and Kylo (or rather Ben Solo) kiss.
- Rey adopts the surname Skywalker in the ending.
openTwo-sided example dispute on YMMV/RedoOfHealer
To go over this dilemma, I'll need to lay out the context within the Redo Of Healer story.
Buckle up, because this is going to take a while. (If you want to skip all this stuff, go straight to the TL;DR at the bottom.)
- Keyaru is a healer that is enslaved and kept docile by magical drugs so that he can be raped and used. After developing immunity to drugs, he then kills his tormenters and restarts time with his memories intact.
- After going back in time, he starts learning new abilities and kickstarting his immunity early. Princess Flare, who can sense "Heroes", tracks him down and brings him back to the castle to be a healer. She is the primary target for Keyaru's revenge.
- Keyaru deliberately allows the initial steps to happen as before, such as various maids in the castle "seducing" him because sex with a healer makes one more powerful. He absorbs the abilities of each person he has sex with.
- Flare tasks Keyaru to heal a swordswoman with a missing arm. The process causes Keyaru tremendous pain and he blacks out. After he wakes up, he deliberately pretends to be traumatized by the experience and refuses to ever heal again, exactly as he did in the first timeline, so that Flare will be disgusted with him and have him drugged and enslaved.
- While drugged and enslaved, Keyaru is again made a sex slave and raped (including by male soldiers). However, he uses this to absorb their abilities.
- After drug immunity kicks in early, Keyaru escapes and begins taking his revenge on everyone.
I tell you all of this, because a lot of people who watch the series criticize and do a lot of headscratching at point #4, where he intentionally pretends to be traumatized, knowing exactly what would happen. His reasoning as stated in the story was that he wanted to absorb the knights' abilties, but those who criticize this argue that he would be able to do that simply by healing them after battle, as Flare was asking him to do. Allowing himself to be drugged and raped again in the second timeline is thus criticized as only being for the benefit of the audience seeing what pieces of work Flare and everyone in her kingdom are.
An example of Unintentionally Unsympathetic was added by Clown Prince 47
mentioning this exact criticism. It was removed by Tropers.Raquel The UFO for the reason: "I'm deleting this portion because Keyaru actually explains why he took the path of revenge instead of trying to avoid the path entirely. Flare has the power to sense heroes like her. Even if Keyaru denied her request to be a hero or ran away from home, she would find him, drag him back and subjugate him all over again like in the first timeline meaning that a life of peace was impossible from the start."
I brought it to the discussion page
because the removal reason is incorrect: nobody is arguing whether or not Keyaru should have taken revenge at all — they are specifically questioning whether step #4 in his plan was necessary, under the logic that he could have still gotten his revenge without subjecting himself to the same torment.
Tropers.Dj0rel first made the accusation that I "didn't read" the edit reason, and repeatedly made the same accusation. When that was finally cleared up, he then made the claim "And you assume that he could have avoided everything if he played along? I think you are forgetting what kind of people he's dealing here". After I said that this was Speculative Troping, because we don't trope what is likely to happen, he then flipped it to claim that criticizing Keyaru's decisions is "speculation".
TL;DR:
Tropers.Dj0rel argues that the logic of the story makes sense in context because questioning the protagonist's decisions is "speculation".
I argue that that isn't how YMMV works. If people are all having the same fridge logic and argue that the protagonist's actions don't make sense, even with the explanation given in-story, then it's significant enough to trope.
For proof that this isn't just a criticism posed by myself or Clown Prince 47, there is also this critique on Youtube
addressing the same exact plot point.
openQuestion about a recap page that seems to have been prematurely made
While inspecting things, I noticed that someone apparently made a recap page for the upcoming show, Hazbin Hotel.
This seems to have been made half-heartedly if not prematurely.
While it has been announced that Hazbin Hotel has been picked up by a studio, no info has yet been given where it will be broadcast and when will the first season drop as of this writing.
As of this writing, all that there is of the show is the pilot itself, a music video, and a couple of webcomics.
There's practically nothing yet to warrant full on recap pages.
With all this in mind, is it okay to ask for this page to be deleted for the time being?
Edited by ElfkaiseropenConcerning Troper
I have some concerns about Maddoxsort and I unfortunately do not know how to approach them.
- The moderators and administrators are to be viewed as apathetic Hanging Judge types. They will not sympathize, only criticize. They will not just micromanage, they will cauterize you like a viral infection. They are relentlessly predatory and will immediately gobble up anybody who causes a negative commotion on the wiki in the slightest. It will always be a Hopeless Boss Fight against them, and the sooner you admit this, the better off you'll be.
And this:
- Overall, this wiki is exacting as heck. Every time you make an edit, it must be useful. If there's no practical reason to add something and you do so anyway, it's already wrong. Like that image you wanted to add on a recap page? Forget it- it's in the way. (Or at least wait a few years until the opposition clears out) If it so much as smells like it's politically charged, it's a full-on declaration of war. If you add content with personal bias or sexually suggestive undertones, it's gonna get swabbed away. And if someone can find a reason to dispute one edit, they find reason to dispute them all. Which leads to a waste of time you could be spending more constructively. And it often leaves me wondering, "Why do I even bother?"Exactly. They say they want you to edit, when in reality, you're just some cog in a machine that you don't get to run. A cog who just contributes a waste of time. And that's just sad.Look, but don't touch.
What I am more concerned of, though, is that Maddoxsort admits on their Troper page to being the creator of Eureka Seven: Paradox Makers—or at the very least, very closely involved in the creation of it. They're pretty much the only Troper to have edited the page, which in and of itself is fine. As we've discussed on ATT before, creators may edit pages for their work. Some of their edits have issues like ZCE and trope misuse, but my main concern is that they are Auto-Erotic Troping on the YMMV page. Maddoxsort has added Author's Saving Throw, Adorkable, Holy Shit Quotient, and Fanon, and in pretty...self-congratulatory ways.
- Holy Shit Quotient: Claire bumps into Gidget by accident. Just seeing one of the most lovable Gekkostate alumni doing great is a really pleasant experience.
- Fanon: This story is basically an expansion pack to the Eureka Seven history tailored for the fandom based on feedback. It's not pandering because the writer has a clear vision of what they want to portray and they aren't wavering from that path.
What brought my attention to this Troper was the edit of another one, Robert TYL, who could also use a talking-to about using YMMV pages to mock works. All their edits under Narm are links to pages from the Webcomic with descriptors like "Here be an action-packed human vs. mecha battle as sketched by an 8 year-old with an aneurysm" and "illustrated by a toddler who found out a ballpoint pen can, in fact, be used for art." Maddoxsort has deleted two so far, with the reason "The jokes are not appreciated, you asshole. At least now I know which ones to redo."
I am unsure of how to broach this situation. I see rudeness in the Troper page and Auto-Erotic Troping, but also Robert TYL breaking the "don't be a dick" rule.
openIP Check Requested
A spin off of this
thread. I'd like for the mods to check into morpmorp's account. Based on details outlined in that other thread, it's suspected that Morp is actually Lily Orchard herself, ban-evading and edit warring to keep her page the way she wants it.
Even if Morp isn't Lily, they're exhibiting serious ownership issues and are attacking other people, having made two other threads specifically to call out editors they were fighting with. They're also insistent on labeling Lily's ex as abusive, when that's a controversial claim and not the neutral stance they claim to be taking.
All in all, something doesn't add up here.
openMagnum Opus Dissonance misuse?
- Cupcakes is an extremely gory My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic fanfic that was written on a whim because the author wanted to see if it would actually get any attention. The result: a fanfic so infamous that reading it is more or less a pre-requisite for understanding many of the in-jokes and references in the Friendship Is Magic fandom. It's spawned an incredible number of spinoff fics, and later someone claiming to be one of the show's animators made a rather gruesome music video based on the fic. The show's staff is also more likely than not aware of it, as they often interact with the community. Most bronies might not even know that the author actually wrote more 'normal', more serious works that don't exactly get a ton of attention compared to Cupcakes.
- BioWare first began development on Anthem under the codename "Project Dylan", as they envisioned creating what they wanted to be seen as the Bob Dylan of video games; a title that would be referenced and remembered for years, which clearly indicated that they intended it to be their masterpiece. Unfortunately, in-part thanks to an extremely Troubled Production, the game wound up being the lowest rated title in the company's history.
I suspect both are misuse. Cupcakes never states the author thought their other works were better. Nor did they say ‘’Anthem'' was their best after it's Troubled Production thwarted their plans to make it their best.
Relating, this Magnum Opus Dissonance entry was deleted by troper genocide 24 without edit reason.
- My Little Pony: Friends Forever #14 was self-described as "the most socially and politically conscious pony comic you ever read" within 10 minutes of its release on writer Jeremy Whitley's twitter
...who went on to fiercely defend it and even blocked the author of the scathing article that pointed out the many problems and complaints
of the issue, which was almost universally disliked. Compare and contrast his Fiendship Is Magic issue that featured King Sombra's origin which, despite releasing with much less fanfare was praised as not only the best of the entire Fiendship series but one of the best issues in the entire IDW comics run.
I PM'd them asking why they removed it. Anyone have any reasons not to add it back?
And why is Magnum Opus Dissonance Trivia and not YMMV if the part that makes it different from the Trivia Creator's Favorite Episode is audience opinion?
openDC Infinite Frontier 2.0 Print Comic
DC Infinite Frontier is in full swing and its YMMV page is up and running, but some of its entries come off as opinionated writing. In the main page, Continuity Snarl has the following context: "Minor case, but the whole concept of Barry Passing the Torch back to Wally, as it's presented as if Barry was giving Wally a promotion. While meta-wise, Barry had been treated as the "real" Flash by DC's editorial, and Wally had been Demoted to Extra with his return (and had suffered a major Heroic BSoD in the last few years thanks to being a Cosmic Plaything), in-universe the two were meant to be about equal, in the same manner as Hal Jordan and John Stewart, so this shouldn't be a case of Wally 'taking Barry's role' so much as Barry leaving Wally to handle their shared duties on his own, something they both know he's more than capable of doing. It is a minor case however, as this somewhat makes sense with their respective flaws; Wally has cripplingly low self-esteem despite his greater power levelnote even putting aside his recent Mobius Chair powers which elevated him to Godhood, Wally is a cosmic powerhouse, while Barry has had It's All About Me tendencies in recent years."
The YMMV page lists Barry Allen as Unintentionally Unsympathetic with this context: "Barry Allen once again falls victim to this when his whole sequence with Wally West features Barry stating he is leaving to help President Superman deal with something Multiverse-related. In regards to his departure, Barry tells Wally that he's now the Flash and is leaving Earth-0 under Wally's care. While this is meant to be seen as if Barry's passing the torch to Wally, aside from the glaringly obvious issue that Wally was already the Flash for years, the whole thing comes across as if Barry's patronizing Wally. The idea that Barry thinks he needs to give Wally his blessing after everything Barry did that ended up practically destroying Wally's life is incredibly galling on Barry's part."
I admit I haven't read The Flash comics in years, but this comes off as an attempt to demonize Barry for, yet again, the Flashpoint event. Last year, Barry was given an entry in Designated Hero but this was later disproven
, which is why I'm bringing this topic up again.
Pandering to the Base has this context: "Given that the event is intended to be about realigning DC to fix their recent mistakes, it's gotten some heat from New 52 fans, particularly over benching Barbara Gordon to return her being to Oracle, and to having Barry Allen be Put on a Bus to give Wally West the Flash title again, as well as being lighter and more idealistic instead of Darker and Edgier. For most fans, long-term and new, this is fixing some severe mistakes, but for the Vocal Minority who joined the fandom during the New 52, it feels like fans of the pre-New 52 DC are Running the Asylum." —- Also, Win The Crowd is becoming a bit bloated, with examples like:
- The creative team of Mariko Tamaki and Dan Mora on Detective Comics is considered by many to be an improvement over the last one, which many derided as So Okay, It's Average.
- To say nothing of actually keeping to what they inferred with Speed Metal and having Wally West once again the lead character of The Flash. Some Barry fans are mad, but general Flash fans consider this franchise rerailment and Wally West's fanbase are ecstatic. Helping matters is the initial arc is solicited to feature the Flash Family, something that was deeply missed by the fans during the last decade.
- Mitigating the issue with Barry was the announcement of an Infinite Frontier event that will chronicle what he's doing with the Justice Incarnate team, along with plans for a Justice Incarnate ongoing to launch after helps avoid the feeling he's being tossed away.
- Also, while not officially announced and confirmed, the statement that there are plans for a Batgirls book co-staring Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain, with Barbara Gordon as their mentor, has fans of the Batgirl legacy hyped, especially as this was a commonly suggested fan-idea.
- Fan reception to Brian Michael Bendis on Justice League is naturally mixed thanks to his equally-vocal Fandom and Hatedom, but people are responding well to the line-up, which has avoided the Big Seven focusnote which had been the case for the last decade and people were growing bored of, primarily because it was considered creatively uninspired and quite limiting to what the Justice League can be, to instead a mixed team featuring new characters like Naomi, old classics like Green Arrow and Black Canary, and unexpected ones like Hippolyta and Black Adam.
This entries come off as knee-jerk reactions instead of, well, entries that could have a long-term position in this page.
So, what do you say?
openMisnamed and empty work pages Print Comic
So it seems that some people are jumping the gun on some comics coming out as part of DC Infinite Frontier, with one page being misnamed and another being trope-less.
Justice League 2021 isn't the correct name, because the year indicates what year the series starts, not a run. This comic is just another writer's run on Justice League (2018), not a new series onto itself. It should be renamed something like Brian Michael Bendis' Justice League or Justice League (Infinite Frontier) to keep with convention. Also, one of the examples is just kinda weird, so maybe the person was jumping the gun in making it? The Mythology Gag is just... a thing that happened before. It isn't so much a gag as a thing they're doing again.
I just created The Flash (Infinite Frontier), since it is just a new creative team's run on the previous series, but is large enough a change in status quo that it deserves its own page. I think that the page I mentioned above should be moved to Justice League (Infinite Frontier).
The other thing is Green Lantern (2021). It's properly named, since the series is starting in 2021 and not a continuation of another series' numbering or anything. However, that page has no tropes at all and has been like that for a month now.
openRude self-recommender.
I caught Bearquarter2008
(also known as Mitchell Movie Productions
) anonymously self-recommending his own fics again on FanficRecs.Dexters Laboratory. When I deleted the fic and sent him a PM telling him he wasn't allowed to recommend his own fics on Fanfic Recs pages (specifically directing him to use the forum thread
linked to on Fanfic Recommendations instead), he responded with a short, rude message.
openEdit war on Captain Planet YMMV Western Animation
Last month, Sedaver added this
to Captain Planet and the Planeteers under Harsher in Hindsight. I removed it after taking it to the clean up thread
, noting in the edit reason that it violated the ROCEJ. Today, I found that they had readded it, with this edit reason:
This entry was meant to refer to the Capitol Riot itself, not Trump.
Edited by fraggleloveropenTheReasonYouSuckSpeech and the "commentary community" Web Original
In December 2019, this
discussion in the "Is this an example?" thread led to the removal of all examples on TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.Web Original that involve reviewers bashing works/characters/writers they don't like or that were posted in the form of comments on YouTube videos, etc. In that thread, I noted
that the folder for the "commentary community" that used to be on the page seemed like a bunch of questionably valid examples dripping with drama importation, and everyone there was okay with me cutting them.
But earlier today, I found out that TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.The Commentary Community was made from the deleted examples in May 2020 by Blazing_Larvesta, with the edit reason of "Turning a deleted section into its own article. Really hope I don't wind up clowning myself here..." The examples are still pretty questionable, and they're still taking sides in internet fights, so can I cutlist that page?
Edited by SeracopenNo Title
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManipulativeEditing
So, I was looking at films, and I saw examples like this:
"Lampshaded in Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed when Fred calls Heather Jasper-Howe out on doing this... and she then proceeds to do it to the footage of him calling her out on it."
with examples like this:
"One infamous example is from Fahrenheit 9/11 where Moore is trying to prove a point about how callous politicians are in sending soldiers off to war. He approaches a Congressman outside Capitol Hill and asks if the man would willingly send his son to Iraq. The man stands mutely for a couple seconds before the camera cuts...to hide the fact that the Congressman answered that he has a nephew who's currently serving in Iraq."
And I wonder: should tropes pertaining to real life examples really be here?
I mean, the trope page itself has a real life examples folder

Recently, the YMMV page for Darkseid was completely rewritten to be from his POV. I'm pretty sure this was done because he recently got his own Self-Demonstrating page and the YMMV was changed as a result.
However, we've been trying to stop self-demonstrating writing from leaking to the subpages (such as the clean-up we had for Deadpool). Since this is recent enough, can we get a page revert to how it was a few days ago?