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Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openComplaining and poor grammar on Music
Radiant Dawn Lord has made a few very complainy edits, with grammar and wording issues, to YMMV.Music 2021. The most recent one, which was made today, is this one:
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: Aside from Maddie being forced to take the role as an autistic character and was very sad about it, the character Music herself suffers from this. Her sister, Zu, just sees her as an unhuman-like burden, and all those supposed "treatments" she gets when she stims are actually restraining techniques that are SO BAD they can potentially hurt, or worst-case kill, Music. It's really not hard to feel sorry her, character and actress. Seriously, Music and Maddie should have deserved better, and should have been not made as caricatures not just for autistic people, but also for disabled people in general.
Others include the following (these have since been rewritten):
- Pandering to the Base (just this alone, with no additional context)
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Music, oh so much. If this film actually received any help from REAL autistic people, Music would've not only had more screen time, but would've also been portrayed as a much more reasonable and sympathetic character who'll actually have a very cement supporting relationship with her sister, rather than as an immature Hollywood autistic burden she was being portrayed as.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Obviously, this film would have been more meaningful and inspirational if the main character, Zu, actually spent some time in the film getting to know her sister, Music, and understand her needs so both Music and Zu can have a decent character development plot. But, instead, this is just about Zu, and only Zu, trying to cope with own struggles of alcoholism, drug dealing, and trying to deal with her "poorly behaved" autistic sister, and not much else.
I have previously sent a notifier for the poor grammar on these past edits.
Edited by ZuxtronopenVinesauce Characters Page Reversion Request (No Longer Needed) Web Original
So, on August 23rd someone tried to restructure the Characters page for Vinesauce, but they've sadly done a bit of a botch job of it and made a mess of the page layout. If it's alright, could I please request a reversion to before those edits were made? It would really save me or someone else the trouble of having fix such major edits manually. Also, sorry if I've done this wrong. I've never done this before and I'm just going on the advice of someone on the discussion page. Edit: Never mind,since this post got no attention I just decided to give it some elbow grease and fix the page myself. Hopefully I did a good enough job.
Edited by BootlegSkeletonopenWhy not HoYay? What is it then?
Question about this from HoYay.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic that was brought to HoYay cleanup
and cut.
- For World Pride Day, Ashleigh Ball posted some Appledash fanart that she had signed personally.
- One comment joked that Ball, who voices both characters, was shipping herself with herself.
I get removing it as it's not unintended subtext. But if so I'm confused why the Word of God intentional Ship Tease between them in the Series Finale and intentional subtext between AJ and Rarity in the Equestria Girls series are still listed? Also from the page:
- Even her VA, Tara Strong, is getting in on it. Claiming that Twilight's "deep dark secret" is her crush on Pinkie Pie when asked at the MLP Panel at San Diego Comic Con 2018.
Is it not Ho Yay because it's not about subtext in the work itself? Not within plausible deniability like the retained examples? Or was there some other reason?
That there actress is aware and approves of the ship is likely a reason for the subtext in their interaction and contributed to it being upgraded to Ship Tease in the finale. Even if not Ho Yay it's seems relevant/contributing enough to it that it should be mentioned somewhere. Ideas where? Approval of God?
I also asked here
, but this may be a wider issue that would benefit from wider feedback.
openProcedure for Renaming Works / Subpages
I apologize if this has already been asked somewhere, though I tried looking without success. I know that there is a thread on the forum for fixing capitalization errors for different work pages and sub-pages, but I couldn't really find such a thing for correcting other errors, such as a recap page having the wrong season labeled (as I have seen in Codename Kids Next Door S 3 E 5 Operation CAKEDFOUR) or a work page having the wrong namespace. What is the procedure for that? Is that something I should report or is it something I can change myself?
Edited by flyingj138openMark Twain YMMV Literature
Please unlock the YMMV for Mark Twain. I intend to crosswick an approved CM entry for a work which does not exist on the wiki.
- Complete Monster (King Leopold's Soliloquy): King Leopold presents himself as a vicious hypocrite and sanctimonious tyrant who subjects the Free State of the Congo to horrific depravity. Having countless people killed and entire regions depopulated, Leopold demands high taxes and production rates from his supposed subjects, cutting off limbs or even castrating others who cannot meet them. Having people tortured and murdered in huge numbers, Leopold notes one of his mistakes was to have sixty innocents crucified and remarks fewer people would care if he'd them skinned. Uncaring of anything but lining his pockets, Leopold shows his only sympathy is to himself, indifferent to the half-million corpses he has left in his rush for money.
openTV Tropes as a Reliable Source of Information
I've recently seen some folks around other sites criticizing TV Tropes as a poor source of information (in the same way Wikipedia is frequently called as an unreliable source by people). In fact, I myself have been accused of adding false/erroneous information to the site (and I know for a fact that I've made my share of mistakes before - and fixed them).
Regardless, of it got me thinking. Since TV Tropes is a Wiki (and thus considered a reputable source of information by certain people), how do we control the veracity of information added to this site in edits, especially regarding obscure shows and behind-the-scenes info? And SHOULD we monitor this kind of stuff?
In theory, somebody could add false (or even damaging) info to a page for an obscure TV show with little traffic (or to a similarly little-visited page for Useful Notes or something similar), and it could remain there for years if nobody knows enough to verify the info. Heck, a person could probably even make a page for a show that doesn't exist and claim it's lost media, or even add an example that never actually occurred in the slightest.
I'm not saying we need to add a citations system or anything, but I am wondering if there is something that can be done about people trying to add false/damaging information (other than some editor randomly stumbles on it anywhere between a few days to a few years after it got added and removes it), especially since doing so could be beneficial to the reputation and integrity of this site.
I've browsed TV Tropes for years, and the site's become a lot more formal over that time, so maybe improving ourselves as a reputable source is the next step? Misinformation is a seriously problem on the Internet, after all.
openMatricide/Self-Made Orphan Sub/Supertrope
I posted this question on the Matricide discussion page a few days ago and didn't get any responses:
Why is Matricide listed as a subtrope of Self-Made Orphan? Not everyone who commits matricide is a self-made orphan (their other parent could still be alive). I think it would make more sense the other way around, but even that doesn't seem totally accurate (a character who never had a mother or whose mother was previously killed by something else could still be a Self-Made Orphan).
Also, is there a better place for future one-off questions/suggestions about trope descriptions?
Edited by indigoJayopenColons or hyphens?
On the page for Fan Nickname/Hololive, all the examples are listed with a hyphen where you'd usually have a colon. Like this:
- Tokino Soda - Whenever she introduces herself, newcomers will often mishear her saying "Soda".
Is this acceptable?
openUser restoring audience reactions to work pages (with occasional rudeness).
I've recently been attempting to scrub mentions of audience reactions (from both fans and critics) from past work pages that I made or otherwise contributed to in an attempt to bring them in-line with the site's rules about work pages. I myself was unaware of the "no audience reactions" rule until then, which is why it took so long. However, Nicky99 has been systematically adding them back in, apparently unaware that critical responses count as audience reactions/value judgements; the few edit summaries they left also sounded aggressive/defiant in tone (such as this one
, this one
, and especially this one
).
I tried sending them a PM about it, but it's been a couple days and they haven't responded or reverted their restorations despite continued activity on the site; I don't want to risk an edit war.
Edited by bowserbrosopenAbout Akame ga Kill Anime
Can someone fix the character list for Night Raid and Akame, please? It is getting confusing. All I see is Akame herself, but not the rest of the Night Raid.
openSay Yes To The Dress question Live Action TV
I found an entry for The Scrappy on the Say Yes to the Dress page that I must question.
The entry says Randy is very full of himself and makes inappropriate comments toward the brides. In the episodes that I've watched, none of this behavior occurs. He's flamboyant, sure, but he gets along wonderfully with the brides and whomever they've brought along with them. I also looked up reviews for the show and people seem to agree: Randy is a decent guy who really cares about helping others.
Since YMMV is a general opinion and not just one person's (in this case, mine), I'd like to know other's thoughts on this. Should the entry be removed, reworked, or kept?
Edited by HMSquaredopenMisuse of Old Shame for complaining?
On Trivia.Noah Caldwell Gervais, there's this Old Shame entry (posting it here because I'm not sure how much attention a Trivia page with two entries will get):
* OldShame: His opinions on the controversial ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUsPartII'' are this but not because of the opinion itself but because of the response it got due to him condemming condemning the game's detractors as closed-minded, entiltled entitled and/or transphobic. Many people took to the comments to attack and insult him, which caused him to enter into a depressed state that didn't allow him to write for a while.
Looking at the video itself (which I just rewatched, which got me reading NCG's page), in the comments he mentions that he regrets not considering criticisms trans critics of the character Lev made (specifically linking this article as another perspective
). He certainly notes that some critics were indeed driven by transphobia and misogyny, but makes no claim it was the only reason to criticise the game (as the fact he's got a 2+ hour video doing so up demonstrates), which would make it hard to regret doing so. Which makes the entry feel a bit shakey and an attempt to complain.
- "Since this video's release, I've gotten a lot of meaningful feedback about my segment later on with Lev. I really enjoyed Lev as a character, and wanted to offer a reading of Lev within the context of the game that would emphasize his importance in the script and his vividness as a character. However, the way I framed my argument was framed very poorly and steamrolled right over more nuanced critiques of the character from the transgender community. I'd like to apologize for being careless— I did mean well, and I wrote what I wrote out of an enthusiasm for the character and not an interest in speaking over more qualified voices.I'd like to recommend this article [link posted above] as a counter-perspective to the one I gave."
Either way, is this actually an example of OS? I thought that was supposed to be for works that a creator completely disavowed, and aside from the stickied comment I mentioned, there's no sign that's happened
Edited by Bisected8openThe Amazing Spider-Man Series Cleanup
The page for The Amazing Spider-Man Series is a cluttered mess. There's too much in the lead to the article, it's confusing to read, and a lot of it repeats itself.
I think it should either be cut down to the bare minimum of what is needed, or if we want to keep it, clean it up and make it presentable.
Sorry if this isn't the place for this. I've not done this before.
openTropes of one work on the subpages of another
I'm having a disagreement with Spectacular Troper over the content on Infinity Train: Blossoming Trail and the other fanfic pages made by the same author. They've reverted some of the edits I've made, so I wanted to bring this here so that it doesn't become an edit war.
Infinity Train: Blossoming Trail has a lot of trope subpages, which list not only examples from the work itself, but also examples from its sequel and prequel, which already have their own pages. I want to move those examples to the pages of those works: SpectacularTroper does not. Is it okay to move those examples?
open Omega Character Page Western Animation
I would like to argue against the inclusion of Ambiguous Gender Identity on the official character page for Omega of The Bad Batch. Throughout the entire show she has been presented as female and identified as such by other characters. She was identified as female in the very first episode by Tech who specifically said that he was looking at her DNA. In the episode "Bounty Lost" Tech explains that she has unaltered Jango DNA. Tech referred to the alterations in question as rapid aging, and increased obediance. Furthermore this trope implies that Omega herself is unsure what her gender is, when she has been presenting herself as female throughout the entire show. She did not correct Cad Bane when he referred to her as "little lady" nor did she do it to anyone else that referred to her as a girl. The point here is that there is no ambiguity that Omega sees herself as female regardless if she was born that way or not. There is absolutely no problem with fan interpretations of her as transgender but it should be delegated to the YMMV page.
open"Note Natter"?
On the Hero's Slave Harem page, Tropers.Discar changed this section of the description:
By removing both notes, citing "Note Natter" as an edit reason.
I've never heard of "Note Natter" being a thing, although, I can certainly see how notes could be irrelevant to an example. However, this isn't an example — it's the description — and on a trope HEAPED with tons of Unfortunate Implications. IMO, the notes (the second one, at least) were extremely important for explaining exactly why the trope is so contentious.
Edited by NubianSatyressopenIffy AHT entry
- The series regulary downplays, justifies and/or outright ignores the horrors of Communism and Islamic terrorism. Yes, it is Political Correctness Gone Mad taken up to eleven.
Seems overly inflammatory (and possibly inaccurate or at least Vocal Minority) to me.
Edited by Chabal2openDisagreement over rerailment
So lately, user Bowbowis and I have been in disagreement over Sonic Forces. He adds the following:
- Character Rerailment:
- Knuckles is a Reasonable Authority Figure as the leader of the Resistance, restoring some of his dignity after years of Badass Decay and Flanderization. Even when his plan to assault the capital city literally goes sideways, it's because of an unprecedented display of power from Infinite, rather than genuine stupidity on Knuckles' part. The "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is still ignored though.
- Forces returns Shadow to the levelheaded and heroic (if not always friendly) personality he had in Heroes and '06, in contrast previous Sonic media of the 2010s, where he's portrayed as more of a petty thug.
I've disagreed with these statements for a while now, because Character Rerailment, as I understand it, refers to when a character returns to their original characterization, not to any form of dignity. In the case of Knuckles, he was never a team leader, much less the leader of an army; if anything, this example is just further Character Derailment, as it feels a different character was written with Knuckles's face and name.
Just because he is taken "seriously" (despite the fact he commits one stupid mistake because he planned the operation in a minute and a half) is just further derailment to me. Heck, the entry itself aknowledges that the "guardian of the Master Emerald" thing is ignored. despite being core of Knuckles character, with him being a treasure hunter the second core.
Likewise, the only form of rerailment involving Shadow is his interpretation in a racing game from 2010 where he was a petty thug, and even then he returned to his established characterization by the next main line game (Generations). This entry also adds a different incarnation of Shadow that has no place in here. This would be like saying the PS 4 Spider-man is Character Rerailment compared with the MCU Spider-man; a false equivalent. So Shadow is shoehorned in this entry because of a AU spin-off.
I cut these entries off with my judgement (and I'll admit I was a bit rude, mostly calling the 2010 game "stupid") twice, and it has been re-added twice.
I cut another entry involving Amy, mostly because someone has been adding the same entry every time she appears, pretending she still has her Sonic Battle characterization. So far, no one has brought it up again.
Edited by TomodachiopenPoor grammar again
The Lampshade Hangerman uses very bad grammar. Here's an
example: "After Recieving tons of Hate-mail, which THANKFULLY have been Filtered and scanned for Biological Weapons like Anthrax by the Japanese Post Office; He gets A Fan-Letter from a guy from Norway named Bjorn who has written that he, his family, and Norway itself Loves him; even sending him a box of foreign sweets, and A Scarf modeled after the Norwegian Flag" (Note the lack of punctuation at the end.)

Kid Has a Point
I think this might be misuse as, while Cell deserved such, Gohan dragging it out gave Cell time to recover, nearly destroy the world necessitating Goku's sacrifice, and still came back more dangerous than ever. Gohan himself realized it was a terrible mistake afterward. It fails to say if they acknowledged Gohan's argument Cell deserved such was legit but my vague recollection of the series is no they didn't.
Should/does this, along with Jerkass Has a Point, Villain Has a Point, and Dumbass Has a Point, require in-work characters acknowledging such like with What the Hell, Hero?? And/or require in-work evidence it was intended to be a legit point?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught