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openLiterature / Her Father's Daughter Does not even HAVE a description!
I dont care enough to research and add one myself. What do?
openIs there a way to request a trope rename? Videogame
I feel like the trope "Self-Sacrifice Scheme" is a bit of a mouthful and sounds more underwhelming than it often is.
At the same time, the name "Hangman's Gambit" sounds mysterious and interesting, but is used for a very mundane purpose: literally just a game of Hangman in Danganronpa.
Hangman's Gambit always sounded like a phrase perfectly suitable for those times when a character sacrifices their life, or pretends to do so in the case of faking their death, in order to increase the chances of a desired outcome in a different endeavor. For example, dying to rile up a crowd of people, or faking their death to make a targeted individual/group focus on something else. This is, by my understanding, exactly what a "Self-Sacrifice Scheme" seems to be.
With this in mind, would it be possible to request that we rename "Self-Sacrifice Scheme" to "Hangman's Gambit"?
If not, could it be made as a subtrope specifically referring to situations where the goal is uncertain and the death is meant as a means of manipulation rather than a direct path to that goal?
Edited by illeatyourselfopenTroper with persist indentation problem
On 26th Jul, I sent them an indentation notifier for this edit
. They did reply and acknowledge it, too bad since it appears that they do not actually learn. I sent them two more indentation notifiers on 1st Sep (regarding this
) and 26th Sep (regarding this
.
Yesterday, they did it again
. I sent them another notifier and wait a day to see if they'll fix it. They don't, despite making two more edits on another articles. So I fix it myself and made this report.
openrequesting an addition Anime
I was surprised that Guts from Berserk isn't on the anime and manga section of the Hurting Hero trope examples. This may sound dumb, but I'm kind of nervous that I'll mess up the formatting if I do it myself, so I just thought I'd suggest instead.
openToo YMMV for Main?
Main.Temporarily Exaggerated Trait
- Spike, who's normally the Straight Man and The Reliable One who's somewhat immature and selfish, tends to become obliviously stupid and incompetent, or obnoxiously selfish in focus episodes like "Spike at Your Service" and "Princess Spike". This trend is responsible for Spike episodes being stereotyped as dead on arrival (with both of those episodes almost unanimously landing on worst episodes lists, often with one of them in the #1 slot).
The last part I'm thinking should be removed as YMMV on a non-YMMV trope. Any objections? And on the tropic is there any circumstances audience reaction are allowed under non-YMMV?
openSchoolhouse Rockz -- Troper restoring deleted page, restoring ZCEs without expanding
TL:DR: Troper recreating plagiarized page without consulting other users, now replacing plagiarized synopsis by filling it with bad grammar.
Long version:
Series.Schoolhouse Rockz — this page was previously cutlisted due to plagiarizing content from a review site
, and now it was reconstructed with the sole editor being... this guy
. (EDIT: EDIT history
)
Who is the same guy who made the page first, several months ago, with the plagiarized content. After the page got the snips due to stealing its synopsis and barely having enough tropes with decent context, LWH somehow sees fit to recreate the page, ZCE and all. With a two-sentence synopsis.
I've never seen the show in question, but here's some colorful grammar on the page itself:
- "It focuses on an everyday life of a 13-year-old snobbish schoolgirl..."
- "This series consists only 6 episodes..."
- "Her hairstyle switches in different episodes. Averted, she is the girliest in Eastwood Secondary..."
Oh, and ZCE issues, lack of full-stops, and "X is this trope" in both the main page and the characters subpage. A bunch which I've commented out months ago
with the dual-percentages, only for the troper in question to put them back without properly expanding the context
.
Also, a "Beware the Nice Ones" shoehorn that doesn't explain why audiences are supposed to be wary of a "nice" character (In episode 5, Dawn confronts Ros and Amni for getting Inka into serious trouble after finding out Inka is wrongly accused of shoplifting. — How is that an explanation of why we're supposed to "beware" of her?)
Help?
Edited by RobertTYLopenMulti-works reference example
Does this writeup look... I dunno... too dependent on other works to make its point?
- Gorn: Miura depicts all kinds of bloodshed and dismemberment with a level of detail that straddles the line between horror and fascination. To elaborate, it's even bloodier than all of Quentin Tarantino's films combined, is packed the very gills and guts with gratuitous extreme graphic aberrant violence that not only makes Mortal Kombat 11, Doom Eternal, The Last of Us Part II and even Manhunt look like games made for little children but also, makes the Live-Action Deadpool duo logy look and feel more like a So Bad, It's Good Live-Action Adaptation of Cardcaptor Sakura as a Sitcom by comparison (and if Deadpool killing so many people aren't that Bloody enough, then think again with how many people and monsters has Guts beaten up to the death), there's large amounts of Gratuitous Rape that downright obscene and pornographic, explicit brutality that makes Crossed look like a joke and much, MUCH more. This holds the reputation as the most violent manga ever created in history and for good reason. And not to mention, Invincible is basically Berserk with Superheroes.
openPossible Single Issue Wonk and unnecessary bashing on a recap page Live Action TV
On a recap page of a few episodes of Just Beyond, I have found two examples where the troper named Colleen seem to hate the same aseop about Be Yourself and True Beauty Is on the Inside. The third example is basically the op bashing Kim Kardashian for no reason. Here's the example (Bold part means I highlighted it):
In Just Beyond S 1 E 3 Which Witch
- An Aesop: Yet another story about how Being Yourself is more important than fitting in.
In Just Beyond S 1 E 5 Unfiltered
- An Aesop: Another story about how Beauty Is Bad and True Beauty Is on the Inside.
- I Just Want to Be Beautiful: Lily wants to be as glamorous and attractive to be boys as the popular girls in her school. When she gets the app that starts magically altering her face, she gets greedy and uses it more and more until her face looks like Kim Kardashian threw up on her.
openFena = Wasted character? Anime
Ok, with Fena: Pirate Princess finally over, I gotta ask: does the titular character really qualify for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character? Her entry in the YMMV page reads:
"Fena herself, despite being the main and title character. All throughout the series, Fena is rarely, if ever, allowed to actually do anything on her own, and it actively ignores opportunities to let her grow as a person or do anything that doesn't involve getting kidnapped, having the plot explained to her, or being saved by other people. Any attempt at letting her do something on her own is handwaved away, such as when she leads the party to where the coordinates are in the underground tomb, not because she herself does it, but because a mysterious voice said so. She's basically a Pinball Protagonist with little to no agency in her own series, and more than a few people noticed this.
"
1. Fena is the protagonist and by definition, she can't get wasted because we follow the story from her perspective. 2. TWAPGC is "this character was insufficiently developed or improperly explored", not "I didn't like the direction this character went through."
So, what do you think?
openbigmouthstrikesagain strikes again
I've been having trouble with Tropers/bigmouthstrikesagain for a while, and while it's never anything big, it adds up.
- HERE
they change an aversion into a subversion, even though it's not a subversion.
- HERE
they write an entry in the past tense, even the stuff that happens in the episode and should be in the present tense.
- HERE
they list a trope for Halloween Kills on the page for Halloween, saying that "In the following film, however..." even though obviously, any Halloween Kills trope should be on the actual page for Halloween Kills itself.
- HERE
they have an example refer to another example on the list.
- HERE
they write that somebody "has a tendency of doing this", which is zero context. (They fixed it after I told them, though, but I did need to tell them.)
So yeah. Like I said. It adds up.
openPutting back info in a Creator page
I noticed that gorobestboy has heavily altered Sayuri Hara (a page I made by myself), and I noticed that they removed some dots containing certain roles such as Reimi Sugimoto in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable and Yori in Princess Connect! Re:Dive. While I'd like to put them back, I'm hesitant to do so since I was the one who put it in and I don't want to get into an edit war. Would it be okay to put them back anyway? Also, they didn't provide any Edit Reasons as to why they rearranged the page. Do you need to ask for permission to rearrange the list order in a Creator page?
Edited by Excessive-MenaceopenSelf-reporting involvement in Edit War
On Oct 22nd, keyblade333 added this example
to YMMV.Tales Of Arise.
To summarize, there's a scene in the game where one character stops another from killing a villain to avenging her parents, despite he himself having gotten revenge on said character earlier. Fans felt this was vastly hypocritical, but the story goes on to say that he wanted to stop her because (A) she had too much "hatred in her heart" and (B) he felt Vengeance Feels Empty after having gotten his own revenge earlier.
To me, the entry came across too much like Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, so I edited it
with the hopes of explaining why said moral didn't "click".
Keyblade edited my rewrite again here
and I edited here
, stating "I still don't think this wording is quite right. Not trying to Edit War, so if there's still an issue, I think we shold go to Discussion. But hopefully, that won't be necessary and this edit can find a happy medium." That was probably a mistake.
Keyblade did indeed bring it back up on the Discussion page
, stating that they had "no issues with it" but made a confusing remark about mentioning 'this is what was meant to be the taken response' and 'providing context'.
Then, last night, Tropers.gorobestboy came in and reset everything
back to keyblade's original edit, stating:
I commented out the example entirely and then moved the entire issue to Discussion because now we were smack in the middle of what I feared: a full-blown Edit War.
Here is my most recent
response on the Discussion page for the record.
openSouth park episode Western Animation
Okay, it's me again, the problem is still my memory. I was asking myself what was that episode of South Park in which I remember there was a character with the aspect of a kinda freak or disabled, a kid-character which seems a loser, but with an amazing deep voice (at least in the dubbed italian version), who in the end of the episode performs a very good speech. The character only appears in this episode. I think it's an old episode.
The character I'm talking about is not Jimmy.
The episode is not "Freak Strike".
Please, can someone help me to recollect?
openTroper with rude edit reasons
jerodast
has a habit of using rude edit reasons in their edits.
- On this page
, they uncommented out a couple of ZCEs, believing they had enough context. While it's sometimes debatable as to whether an example has enough context, edit reasons like "I could copy a description of the trope into the text here, because it describes exactly what happens, but that would be an incredibly irritating and redundant thing to have to do" and "Are we expecting a full description of all skin she shows instead of concluding the completely self-explanatory reasoning that there are various sexy shots of the character throughout the movie? Christ" are rather rude.
- Here
, while it's fine to point out that the trope entry shouldn't refer to "above" or "below" examples, was it really necessary to add " DON'T TRY TO PULL THIS CUTESY CRAP"?
- Here
, they start by saying "This is just nonsense" in reference to someone using "Mr." instead of "Dr.", before going on a long-winded discussion that qualifies as a small Wall of Text by itself.
- Here
, they deleted a natter-y sub-bullet. But rather than putting something like "removing natter" or "repair, don't respond", they put "this comment literally adds nothing. actual examples or don't bother!"
- Here
, the edit reason starts with "This is SUCH a borderline example, Jesus", and goes on to mention "the concentrated power of fan hate".
I've sent a notifier or two, still waiting for a response. I thought I may as well bring up the issue in case I don't get a response, or their reply is of a similar level of rudeness.
Edited by Shadow8411openMudvayne and Numetal Music
For the last five years or so, on and off there has been an ongoing issue with NuMetal being part of the Mudvayne page. It has been removed a couple of times usually by the same troper BornnofSelf ban evading. They have used various handles to do this, and when they have been found out usually tropers simply revert the changes, generally it has been accepted that Mudvayne are Numetal. Established via various sources including
https://www.revolvermag.com/music/11-most-iconic-looks-nu-metal-stars
The general consensus has been that the band is Numetal.
'
Once again Numetal has been removed from the band page this time by relatively new troper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/dognation83
. On both the Mudvayne page and the Numetal page with the reasoning Mudvayne is clearly prog-metal with no links to estabilsh this. I am seeking consensus to revert as this has been an ongoing argument I thought resolved with them being established as Numetal.
openOnce again, a non-existant work wonk Videogame
I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
- “Paper Mario: The Origami Nazi”. Explanation King Olly’s plan for getting rid of all the Paper Toads involves him wishing via the 1,000 Crane Technique that all the Paper Toads go away forever since they share the same face and are poisoning his “perfect world” similar to Adolf Hitler.
And
- Pandering to the Base: While many critics and fans alike praise the game for being a Surprisingly Improved Sequel to its predecessors, a few such as the Villain Army and its Supreme Leader, accuse it of pandering to the people who hated Paper Bowser and his Koopa Troop by having King Olly be the main villain throughout the entire game, while Paper Bowser doesn’t steal back the spotlight from him, though it could just be shock over the eradication of the Paper Toads via the 1,000 Crane Technique. Hell, a review of the game
even said this while bashing the game for holding back Nintendo's development of Mario And Luigi Paper Jam 2, despite its 8.5 review rating.
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.
openTough Act To Follow
FTR, the phrase means, "This remains more beloved than its successor(s)", doesn't it? I've found and edited three instances of someone using the term to mean, "This couldn't compare to its predecessor(s)"; the fact that it meets the Rule of Three makes me want to double-check that I didn't misinterpret the phrase myself.
To recall a specific example, YMMV.Hello Dolly referred to Bette Midler as a tough act for Barbra Streisand to follow, even though Streisand played Dolly in 1968, and Midler in 2017.
openBetter Description Music
I recently thought of improving upon the (rather sparse) page for Ken Ashcorp, and even included him in the namespace for pages needing work. However, seeing no activity for several months, I decided to start working on it myself. The biggest problem I saw with the page was the description - it was in a serious need of updating. I finished my version of the new description, but I think I'm gonna need it peer-reviewed. Is this thread a good place for peer reviews? If so, here are the two versions of the description for comparison.
Edited by AoeAbilityopenJackpot21 removing Fridges from Ladybug that are good/fixable instead of bad (At least IMO) Western Animation
...Yes, I know, but I can assure you that Jackpot has no interest in talking to me and discussions on the pages have not worked for me.
(NOTE: The following is for the stuff removed in the 10:37 PM edit on October 19th. While I have other things that I disagree with Jackpot removing in past edits, I put those on the Discussion page and the Mods prefer one or the other).
First: in the removal of a additional bit onto an Fridge for 'Gang of Secrets'. This fridge bit.
...
The fact that Marinette wasn´t akumatized after breaking up with Luka isn´t so strange. She's been trying to distract herself from her sadness, probably to avoid attracting Shadow Moth's attention.
...
This is what was removed.
...
- Also, her anger is towards Shadow Moth. Considering his actions as villain, for Gabriel it should be nothing particular that a civilian hates his alter-ego.
- It's also very likely Gabriel deliberately doesn't send akuma after people who are specifically angry at Hawk/Shadow Moth themselves because they'd be very unlikely to cooperate with him and/or he'd be empowering people that want to directly use it against him. He's used people angry at "Gabriel" before since they don't realize that's the person they are cooperating with and he's safe in his lair from them, but akumatizing someone who wants to target his villain self would probably be counter productive.
- Also, her anger is towards Shadow Moth. Considering his actions as villain, for Gabriel it should be nothing particular that a civilian hates his alter-ego.
...
While you could probably streamline this a bit, this is not a unfair point. The guy can sense what is causing a negative emotion, he monologues about what is causing the pain when he hears it. It is not hard to add onto the above point with that additional point.
Second: from Crocoduel. This one could have used some tweaking in the flow at the end, but he cut off the end part of this
...
- Juleka's hero form, like her akuma form, is a lot brighter than her normal get up. However Rose's is not darker looking like her akuma, but just as bright as normal. Both an Akuma and a Miraculous bring out an inner look for a hero and a villain, and both girls do admire the other. Other neither seem to see a dark clad hero as ideal: they don't want to be Batman they want to be like Ladybug or Majesta.
To this
...
- Juleka's hero form, like her akuma form, is a lot brighter than her normal get up. However Rose's is not darker looking like her akuma, but just as bright as normal. Both an Akuma and a Miraculous bring out an inner look for a hero and a villain, and both girls do admire the other.
...
With the bit missing it it lacks the clarification that the idea is that while they admire the looks of the other (the bright Rose to the dark Juleka and vice versa), their idea of what a hero is the same (bright).
Third from Optigami
This is the original version
...
- Shadow Moth choosing Nino/Carapace as the one to impersonate makes a lot of sense. As Adrien's friend, he's over their place constantly so he'd be overly familiar with his attitude and how to convincingly act like him. And in "Heart Hunter", he battled Fu as Jade Turtle who transformed in front of him and used his power so he remembered Wayzz's name (and depending on the language version the words to transform) and how to use Shelter properly so he could even convincingly impersonate Carapace. He only gives himself away by not reciprocating Alya's handshake properly, something that Gabriel would have never seen. While Gabriel also saw most of the rest transform in "Miracle Queen", he barely knows anything about them and could possibly slip up, and in the case of Kagami, while he is familiar with her enough to convincingly impersonate her, she didn't transform in Miracle Queen so him not knowing Longg's name (especially when Kagami herself was happy to see him again last time) to transform would raise suspicions. It also let him get Alya as bait, as was said in episdoe.
...
This is what it was edited to.
...
- Shadow Moth choosing Nino/Carapace as the one to impersonate makes a lot of sense. As Adrien's friend, he's over their place constantly so he'd be overly familiar with his attitude and how to convincingly act like him. And in "Heart Hunter", he battled Fu as Jade Turtle who transformed in front of him and used his power so he remembered Wayzz's name (and depending on the language version the words to transform) and how to use Shelter properly so he could even convincingly impersonate Carapace. He only gives himself away by not reciprocating Alya's handshake properly, something that Gabriel would have never seen.
...
While episdoe did need to be fixed, I don't see the point in removing the last bit. The idea in the above clarifies why the Kagami option was not considered. (there is some show reasons why that would be caught quicker, but this is in moth's mind, not Cat's mind). It's not bad information to elaborate on.
Fourth: Also from Optigami the following was removed.
...
- Chloe was the only temporary hero who did not show heroic traits in this episode whne in a situation to do sonote Kim missed the entire snafu by getting into one of his self-inflicted races, and thus was in no place to help anyone, while Chloe did, from making the moves to be ready in case they were needed to helping others try to get to safety. Another step in the 'Chloe was never a hero' demonstration.
...
Several other tropes entries describe bits that elaborate on showing how Chloe was not ever a true hero from her uniform to why her complex developed in Maledictator to comparing King Monkey to Queen Bee by multiple tropers. The episode does feature virtually every other present temp hero to show these traits, which I see no reason to discard as an observation of Fridge Brilliance.
While there are other removals I do disagree with, these are the ones that strike me as the most counterproductive and needless and would like help either restoring them properly, or a good reason why they should stay off.
(Last time I had raised a forum here on the topic, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=104957&type=att
, in regards to a Sevens Fridge removal, but not only is some of this stuff individual Fridge bits and not an additional point (though most of these are), well as was said in that entry by the one respondent War Jay 77 could be summed as 'if we stretched it could be called Natter but doing that would basically require a scrubbing of all fridge pages' in regards to these points and others.
So...is there anything that can be done in this situation?

tiger20 made some edits to some Character pages for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, mostly Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Phantom Blood and Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Battle Tendency. These edits had a lot of issues, mainly from a large quantity of misspellings (to the point where I'm not sure if they're typos or genuine mistakes), but I fixed those and sent a PM.
Something I'm not sure needs undoing is the removal of Ambiguously Gay and Ambiguously Bi on those pages, with no edit reason given:
I feel like there is a good amount of evidence for Speedwagon being Ambiguously Gay, though Caesar being bi is a bit weaker IMO. Still, removing LGBT tropes without any discussion or explanation feels suspicious. Do these examples look okay, and should they be re-added?
Edited by Zuxtron