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openNew troper, new page, problems
The new article VideoGame.Gacha World was created by a new troper. Aside from the usual problems with a poorly drafted article, I'm wondering if the description is plagiarized from anywhere. I'm not really interested in doing the research myself so I will hand it over to the troper body.
open Possible edit war on AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/FireEmblemThreeHouses
I think this might be an edit war, but the time periods between edits are pretty long, so I'm looking for a second opinion.
On February 2020, Tdwalls added this entry to Fire Emblem: Three Houses:
The entry was removed on Vampire Buddha on July 2021 as part of a cleanup effort, and in their edit reason they mentioned that the changes were approved
.
Tdwalls then added the entry back on August 2021 with the following edit reason:
There was no attempt to bring the entry to discussion, and I'm also a little concerned that this particular troper seems quick to accuse people of being defensive over the subject of the entry, as can be seen in this discussion thread
.
openThe100 Moral Event Horizon Question Live Action TV
Copying this from the Moral Event Horizon cleanup thread to get more opinions on these entrys.
Found these entries on the Ymmv subpage for The 100. I’m putting this into a folder due to the length
- Moral Event Horizon:
- Clarke and Bellamy when they torture Lincoln which they did in order to find a cure for a poison that's killing Finn.
- Also Clarke killing that Grounder in Season 1 though justified by the fact she was trying to escape so that she can save Finn but it is the first time she straight up murders somebody as the first time she killed somebody it was a mercy kill and being emotionless when she gives him the "shh" gesture while he falls to the floor dying and later along with the others burning up 300 grounders to defend themselves.
- There is also when, along with Lexa, she doesn't inform everybody in the village that a missile is about to hit and of course when she irradiates Mount Weather by pulling a switch with Bellamy and kills everyone including the children and including the earlier mercy kill of Finn and the guilt of every thing she has done ends up leading to her decision to not return to Camp Jaha and live out into the woods.
- Finn caging up Grounder villagers and then slaughtering eighteen of them when they tried to escape. Subverted because it is implied that he was in a PTSD state when he started shooting and as noted he started shooting because one of them tried to escape but the second one was because he was attempting to attack Finn as a result of the first one's death and it causes mass panic that results in all them trying to escape or attack Finn and in his state he just kept shooting until Clarke arrives to snap him out of it and of course the reason he was on edge in the first place was because he was told that the village was holding Clarke captive by a grounder who wanted revenge on the village and to get Finn to stop torturing him. He ends up feeling guilty about this and it is part of the reason he turns himself into the Grounders who were ready to wipe out the Sky People because they wouldn't turn him in for what he did.
- Tsing was already straddling the line before, but she takes a flying leap over it when the President gets locked away. She stops playing nice and takes them one-by-one, killing them for bone marrow extraction.
- If Cage creating Reapers by injecting Grounders with a drug to make them murderous cannibals didn't push him over the line, then staging a coup so that he can forcibly remove the bone marrow from the teens definitely does.
- Tsing and Cage justify their actions as trying to find a cure for their people's illness and being on a deadline because of radiation leaks. But they are not really justified because they basically enslaved Grounders as Reapers. Killed their 100 captives brutally, just to speed up production of the cure. They had a method to cure the populace that would not kill the 100 but decided it would take too long. Deciding to kidnap more of them to literally butcher them for marrow for their own convenience. In fact another reason they where on a deadline was because their actions forced a Grounder/ 100 alliance and as noted by Kane, the Sky People would have volunteered if asked and they didn't ask just because of the possibility they would say no.
- Pike ordering (and helping carry out) the murder of 299 Trikru Grounders who were there to protect them in cold blood and in "Bitter Harvest", after being told that Lexa would not start a war over his massacre, he doesn't take the reprieve as the one-shot blessing he's been given, and moves right into deciding to take a Grounder village's land to use it for farm land. Then he sentences Kane to be executed because Kane attempted to kidnap him and turn him into the Grounders and he later executes Lincoln who stays behind after Kane and the others escape because Pike threatened to kill the other Grounders prisoners if one of them didn't surrender. Subverted when he later helps in the fight against A.L.I.E and his murder of the Grounders is partially justified by his bad experiences with the Ice Nation that made him distrustful of all Grounders and he believed that they were secretly planning to attack and as stated he sentenced Kane to be executed because he attempted to kidnap him and Lincoln was probably a show of force to show he means business though his killing of Lincoln is what leads to his death.
- Bellamy participating in the massacre of the 299 Trikru grounders sent to protect Arkadia and supporting Pike's anti grounder movement. It is eventually Inverted when he turns against Pike and eventually sees the errors in his choices even then his actions are some what justified by the fact that he wasn't in his right mind because of his grief over the deaths of many people and someone he cared about and his guilt for what he did with Clarke in Mount Weather when they killed the whole population and really not having too many positive experiences with the Grounders to begin with which includes the fact that they have killed several of his people and Lexa abandoning them at Mount Weather that lead to him and Clarke making that decision in the first place.
- Before this in Season 1, there is his attempt to kill Jaha and on the ground telling everyone they can do whatever they want and convincing them to take off their wristbands making the Ark think that they died from radiation and destroying Raven's radios which ends preventing them from stopping the killing of 300 people on the Ark to save life support and led to them shooting flares to try to contact the Ark and the flares end up destroying a village which ends up making the conflict with the grounders worse. Though these actions are justified by the fact he did these things for his sister Octavia to protect her from the Ark's harsh laws and protect himself from getting punished for what he did to Jaha. Also what he did to Jaha was part of a deal so he could get on the drop-ship with Octavia to either die with her so she won't die alone or to be their to protect her on the ground if it turned out to be survivable.
- Jaha not even hesitating to sacrifice one of his disciples to a hungry sea monster is viewed as such by Murphy and when you consider that awhile back he was willing to sacrifice himself so that his people could get to the earth and he also didn't enjoy enforcing the laws of the Ark and started going against them in the end.
- Then in Season 3 he becomes loyal to A.L.I.E and participates in torture and forcing and manipulating people into taking her chip and falling under her control but this is justified by the fact he is under her control too but he was the first one to take the chip and the one who found her in the first place and it is implied that he made some of the decisions on his own.
- A.L.I.E's was when she caused the nuclear strike that destroyed the Earth in the first place and in Season 3 when she mentally tortures Raven in submitting to her because before this she mostly got people to do what she wanted by talking to them through Jaha and getting them to voluntarily taking her chip, but after torturing Raven she generally just starts threatening and torturing people to get her way.
- Ontari was when she killed all the nightblood children in their sleep.
- Octavia in the Season 3 finale when she killed Pike because yes he did kill Lincoln but he did save her life and even then it was straight up cold blooded murder as he wasn't a threat anymore and Kane and the others probably could have still turned him over to the Grounders to make peace. Even then she just did it to make herself feel better and other people she has killed in the past have mostly been in self defense/defense of others and during war. It is also hinted that this may be a Start of Darkness for her in Season 4.
- Clarke in "Die All, Die Merrily," when she takes the bunker while the 12 clans are distracted by the conclave, moves Skaikru inside, and seals the door. In doing so, she leaves Octavia, Kane, Monty, Raven, Murphy, and a handful more of her own people to die. To top it all off, she had Bellamy drugged, abducted, and dragged inside the bunker without his knowledge before shutting it, because she wanted him to survive, despite knowing how he would react to Octavia being left behind.
- Octavia, in Season 5, for several reasons: first, she allows Cooper to experiment on Wonkru people to generate more mutated worms for biological warfare against Diyoza's criminal group in Eden. Then, as the strain of realizing she might never be truly free of the bunker wears on her, as well as the fact that fissures are forming within Wonkru threatening her command, in a last act of spite, and to regain control, she burns down the entire hydroponics section of the bunker even though Monty had proven it could be regenerated. Finally, the origin of the phrase "all of me for all of us" is shown in The Dark Year when she begins — albeit under great stress and after repeated attempts at verbal persuasion — to kill people to force the rest of Wonkru into cannibalism.
- Abby in Season 5 pushed Octavia into enforcing "full compliance", hinting that she needed to force Kane, in particular, to eat the "meat" that was being provided during the Dark Year. Her insistence on having Octavia shoulder that burden had lasting effects on her, pushing Octavia to become Blodreina over increasingly macabre death matches in the fighting pits.
- In Season 6, the leaders of Sanctum, Russell and Simone, jump well past the horizon when they take advantage of Clarke having been immobilized by one of the Children of Gabriel spies in order to implant a chip which completely overwrites her entire brain, in effect "killing" Clarke and replacing her with Josephine Lightbourne. It's especially hypocritical because even Russell objects to some of Josephine's ideas, primarly because she doesn't think consent needs to be obtained for her mad plans to breed more "royal bloods".
Considering that this show has Grey-and-Grey Morality and some of the entries here have fairly sympathetic reasons like being out of options, etc, should some of these entries be cut? Thanks.
Edited by spyland2openEdit war
On Trivia.Casino, H Mackall restored an entry
for Adaptational Name Change that had previously been removed for not being trivia, and they claimed in their edit reason that its removal hadn't been explained, although it actually had
. I reverted it, since it's not trivia, and it's located on the main page, but then I realized after checking the history that HMackall actually added it themself in 2019
, and has restored it repeatedly since then.
openSpoiler Marked Late Arrival Spoiler? Western Animation
Are Late-Arrival Spoiler entries allowed to be spoiler marked? Because I just found one on Characters.Ninjago Ninja, and it seems a little weird to me (the marking, not the entry itself).
openATT Inconsistent Suspension Glitch
If I try to make the first reply to an ATT thread, I get a pop up saying that my permissions for this area have been suspended. However, if my reply is the second or later, then it goes through fine. I have to admit it's spooked me a few times before I realized the pattern and made me wonder if I did something wrong.
This has been happening for a while, but I figured it wasn't worth reporting before due to how uncommon my particular situation is (and, with it, how unlikely to happen to anyone else it is), but the more it happens, the more annoying it gets.
And yes, it even happens on threads I create myself. I tested it just now.
Edited by BaffleBlendopenedit war, self report
Recently deleted some examples from dramedy, including One Piece and Dragon Ball, however I realized when checking the history that I had already removed Dragon Ball previously. Also realised that those examples were added both times by quackytrope. So- my apologies for the edit war, I have pm'd quackytrope to discuss the example and I will be sure to watch more closely for edit wars in the future
Edited by Tremmor19openTroper with Indentation (and other) issues, continues to do so over the course of almost a year
I've noticed a troper by the name of Arachnos continues to break the rules written in Example Indentation in Trope Lists, along with others, since at least February this year.
Here are some of their past violations:
Characters.Hololive Japan Generation Five - Feb 25th
- Sad Clown: Has hints of this but more melancholic and reflective than outright depressed. In a very short video
she explains her motivations for why she's taken up the role of a circus performer.
- Polka: "Don't let people laugh at you. Make them laugh." Those were my father's words. He was a popular ringmaster in our hometown. I loved my father, I really did. That's why I wanted to be in the circus, too.
- This is also implied by the songs she tends to cover. While her original Hologram Circus is about her enthusiasm and love of entertaining others, her later covers tend to feature dark and depressing lyrics set to happy upbeat music. As an insightful YouTube commenter points out:
"1st song, original
- welcomes to the circus and dreams of making a spectacular show
2nd song, cover
- talks about how nobody loves her and how she doesn't love herself
3rd song, cover
- talks about how she smiles and sings through the pain
4th song, cover
- She snaps and is now crazy, doesn't care about what happens, she loves you
hmmm i'm seeing a pattern here"
Along with the standard 2nd-level bullet pitfall; as per Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules -> Quotes Formatting, quotes other than Page Quotes should not be enclosed in quotation marks.
Characters.Hololive English Generation One Myth - May 27th
- Irony: Even though she is a Grim Reaper, she tends to either A) be the first one to die when playing with others or B) almost never get a chance to be the "killer" in Asymmetric Multiplayer games. This happens so frequently that Gura lampshades this trend
during a group playthrough of Phasmophobia:
- Gura: It's kinda ironic how Calli always dies first, even though she's Death. [laughs]
- As an incarnation or deity of death that totes a massive scythe, many expected her to have a Bad Ass, dominating personality. She does come off that way in most of her raps, but that aside, she's more in the "lovable and kind-hearted dork trying and utterly failing to present herself as a cool edgy reaper" territory. Considering that she is a fan of gap moe, this is very likely intentional.
-
- Irony: Just like Calliope, she's one of the holoEN girls whose Eldritch Abomination persona would normally be associated with the darkest implications - Cosmic Horror, madness, the end of the world, and whatnot. You might expect her to be very chaotic or horror-focused, but, despite the occasional moment of casual creepiness or degeneracy, Ina is on the whole possibly the most wholesome, cute and calm member of the EN branch, with Token Human Amelia being arguably more eldritch than she is. It's been joked by her fanbase that Ina's streams tend to restore sanity as opposed to damaging it.
Along with the standard 2nd-level bullet pitfall; as per Sinkhole -> Chained sinkholes, internal links should not be placed right next to each other.
Characters.Hololive Haato Ch - Jul 15th
- Mind Rape: Threatened to pull one on Luna while losing a bowling game:
As per Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules -> Quotes Formatting, Article Quotes should not be enclosed in quotation marks or italicized. Also, the name of the speaker is missing.
WebAnimation.Hololive - Aug 23rd
- American Kirby Is Hardcore: The Japanese cast's characters are all a variation of many different motifs, most of them cute or beautiful. The first generation of English-speaking v-tubers? They all got an Eldritch Abomination motif. Mind you, they're still very cute.
- And the second generation of holoEN outright consists of divine avatars of concepts such as space, time, and nature.
I've fixed all these past entries, but these are only within the hololive namespace, so I have no idea what how many and what other violations they did in other works.
Their most recent ones in hololive are:
Characters.Hololive English Generation Two Council - Dec 2nd
- Irony: Despite being the embodiment of Chaos, she was appointed by the Gods to be The Leader of the Council. In other words, she is responsible for maintaining order among the five.
- Also, despite being an incarnation of Chaos, she is not significantly more chaotic than any of the other four Council members. Sometimes even less so. This leads to a fan theory that Baelz does not so much actively cause chaos as she does attract it, i.e. she is a Weirdness Magnet and her presence warps the other members into becoming chaotic.
Characters.Hololive Haato Ch - Dec 2nd
- Mind Rape: Threatened to pull one on Luna after being taunted by her while losing a bowling game.
- She attempts this again against 6th genner La+ Darkness with her rap dedicated to her
, which also contains the line "Your brain... Haachama-chama!" Unfortunately for Haachama, La+ proves to be a tough nut to crack.
- Sitcom Arch-Nemesis: Has this dynamic with Luna ever since the takoyaki incident.
- More recently, she has this kind of dynamic with 6th gen talent La+ Darkness, whom Haachama took a special interest in
(likely due in no small part to both of them having a chuunibyou aesthetic going on) and tried to "make into her subordinate" by means of a rap to assert her dominance
. However, La+ proved she's not one to be trifled with by responding with a rap of her own
, which proved impressive enough for Haachama to actually admit defeat
.
- More recently, she has this kind of dynamic with 6th gen talent La+ Darkness, whom Haachama took a special interest in
Along with the standard 2nd-level bullet pitfall; as per Examples Are Not Recent, examples that talk about the "recency" of something should always be avoided.
Characters.Hololive Japan Generation Six Holo X - Dec 3rd
- Know When to Fold 'Em: After Haachama challenges her to a rap battle, La+ retaliates with her own rap, defeating Haachama (by the latter's own admission). However, when chat challenges her to do a rap battle with Calliope Mori, the normally arrogant and confident La+ is quick to admit her inferiority in the face of Death itself.
As per Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules -> Quotes Formatting, Article Quotes should not be italicized. Also, the name of the speaker is missing.
I've already messaged them three times about Indentation, as well as once about Quote Formatting, directing them to & informing them about the points mentioned in the Administrivia pages, but I've gotten no response from them.
Given that there has been no improvement whatsoever for so long, it doesn't look like they will give a slightest care about these issues anytime soon unless something is done.
Edited by AsoktencheaopenEdit War Western Animation
Jumbo J 99 is doing an Edit War on What If…? (2021).
He added a really complaining entry of Took Bleak Stopped Caring to the ymmv (saying it now applied to the whole MCU). It was removed for being both a moment and the work itself ends pretty optimistically.
He then re-added it with a bunch of really reaching and sometimes incorrect versions of how things will in his opinion go
.
Like We have no clue if project insight will happen here and Carter could still stop it, We see in the finale that Tchalla and Quill are going to stop Ego, Loki is also defeated in the finale and a new avengers is formed who will probably deal with Malekith, Strange accepts his punishment and is even at peace, the zombie stuff is apparently going to be covered in another show, I have no idea where the nuclear war will destroy the earth comes from as that's not even in the episode and Killmonger is too stopped.
The show has been well received and from what I've seen loved by the fanbase for the dark moments so I don't think it's an example. Even ignoring that several of these entries are blatantly not true.
openEdit war
On 27th November
, Shiroyama added this.
- Some people have even considered nature itself and even THE PLANET EARTH to be Eldritch Abominations.
It's general example ("some people" practically means absolutely nothing), ZCE (how it would count as Eldritch Abominations?), and - to be blunt - make no sense. So I removed it about six hours later, pointed out in edit reason that "Some people" misuse tropes too, so don't mind them. (because I think citing "some people" is the worst issue of this entry, it might be simple ZCE if they state the source myth).
Today, they put it back with minor change
.
open Crowner Announcement.
The Undertale Cleanup Thread
has an active crowner on whether or not Characters.Deltarune Kris should have an Ambiguous Gender entry or not. Explanations in the crowner itself.
Please do not discuss the subject on the thread, as it has already been heavily discussed and reached no conclusion - thus the crowner.
This is an Announcement only. Do not reply to this post.
openEdit warring on NightmareFuel page Web Original
On Nov 26th 2021 at 7:52:12 AM, ~TVTroperZelda made this edit on NightmareFuel.Hololive:
- The 6th generation of Hololive JP seems to be taking some inspiration from Myth and Council, in that all the members are based around one theme...but instead of being a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits or an Omniscient Council of Vagueness, Holo X is a secret society whose leader, La+ Darknesss, desires to Take Over the World. And if it weren’t for her being briefly captured and having her vast powers and intellect locked behind a system of Power Limiters, she very easily could.
On Nov 27th 2021 at 12:55:48 AM, I changed the last sentence to:
- [...], she potentially could.
with the Edit Reason being:
On Nov 28th 2021 at 3:37:42 AM, TV Troper Zelda changed the last sentence back to:
- [...], she very easily could.
without giving any reason for the revert/bringing it up for discussion.
I believe this is clear case of edit-warring, especially when the other troper justified their edit when they didn't.
Also, I call the last sentence out for Speculative Troping, since it's never actually shown in the work itself that "she very easily could Take Over the World", never mind that it blatantly ignores other factors in the same universe beside herself, and thus is not an accurate example at all.
Edited by AsoktencheaopenQuick apology about a dumb edit Literature
Hello! Apologies if this isn't the correct place to put this.
I just wanted to apologize real quick about a dumb series of edits I made on the new trope Tourist Bump. I had changed the Twilight example based on a previous wording, only to see too late that it already got reworded by someone else. It wasn't my intention to screw it up like this; I tried changing it back but I screwed it up even more. I'm sorry about this mess; please feel free to change it back. I could even try doing it myself if necessary.
openEdit War on the YMMV page for Inside Job
So troper Johnny Be Bad deleted this example from the YMMV page for Inside Job:
Trans Audience Interpretation: Reagan is occasionally read as a transwoman for a couple reasons. The first episode establishes that she has a habit of saying "suck my dick" a lot for a woman, the fourth episode includes a robotic replica of herself that is notably more feminine, her diploma uses male pronouns and has her name written by hand, and, perhaps most notably, the 8th episode has Rand offhandedly mention that he tampered with her genetics when she was in the womb to make sure his genetics were dominant. That said flashbacks to Reagan's childhood in the finale seem to contradict this, unless Reagan transitioned extremely early or her memories have been further tampered with.
This was their justification:
- Don't strain your back reaching like that.
They then started this thread
to discuss Trans Audience Interpretation. The general consensus of the thread was that Johnny Be Bad's edit reason was unnecessarily mean, but that the example wasn't valid to begin with.
Troper Sana Naryon then re-added the example with this justification:
- Trans Audience Interpretation is not a theory, it's an interpretation. I'll reach however long I damn well please, and I know for a fact a lot of people agree with me. Also, those What An Idiot examples are more about Rand being an idiot In-Universe, which is perfectly in character for him, instead of him acting stupid for no reason.
To me this seems like someone using the YMMV page to push their own personal headcanon. During the thread discussing this example, someone did a google search and found no proof of fans thinking Reagan was trans.
openComplainy edits about the Pokemon DP anime
Tavernier has recently been making a lot of edits to Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl — Cast, specifically about the character Paul, many of which I feel are either highly nitpicky or demonstrate heavy negative bias against the character. I deleted several of them the other day for reasons listed here
, but Tavernier quickly added multiple of them back with new reasoning and then some. So to avoid an Edit War, I'm bringing them up here. To expand on a few:
- Depending on the Writer: Paul spends his anime tenure Diamond and Pearl being all over the place. How much of a jerk he is, how much he respects others, how much he respects his pokémon, how much he respects his brother, his analysis of what actually happens in battle and what causes it—these all change from episode to episode without cause or warning.
I'll start off with this entry. This one wasn't readded after I removed it, but I still bring it up because it's factually untrue to an extreme degree. As I pointed out in my edit, Paul is a character who, unlike virtually any other character in the anime's run, was near-exclusively written by a single person — Atsuhiro Tomioka wrote about 90% of the Paul-focused episodes in the series, so if there's any trope that doesn't apply to him, it's Depending on the Writer. I feel like that's a rather big red flag of misunderstanding already. In all my years of dealing with debates about Paul, I've never heard even a single other person, no matter how much they hated him, call him an inconsistent character.
- Strong as They Need to Be: Paul's assessment of Azumarill's weakness wouldn't be such a sticking point if Azumarill's loss at Roark's gym weren't so blatantly engineered by the writers—Roark's Geodude was apparently trained to use Hidden Power such that it not only blocks Hydro Pump but knocks Azumarill down long enough that Geodude could get two free hits of Rollout in.
Tavernier also seems to be particularly hung over the Geodude vs. Azumarill battle in DP015, where Azumarill's Hydro Pump is overpowered by Geodude's Hidden Power and finished off by two Rollout hits. When I deleted the above entry, they added
these instead:
- Ambiguous Situation: There are two competing explanations for Azumarill's loss to Geodude—Brock speculates that it's because Roark trained Geodude especially well, while Paul decides that Azumarill itself was just weak. The series does not judge in favor of either interpretation.
- Strong as They Need to Be: A key part of Paul's early Character Development and his conflict with Ash was his decision to release an Azumarill for supposedly being unimprovably weak after it lost in Roark's gym—however, the loss in question was the result of the anime putting Azumarill on the receiving end of this trope; after setting Azumarill up to dish out a Curb-Stomp Battle (with its type-advantage and Hydro Pump), the writers let Geodude stomp Azumarill instead and then had Brock Hand Wave it by speculating that Roark trained Geodude to beat Water-types.
This... doesn't change anything about my stance. Like I said in my edit, this type of thing happens all the time in the anime. Hidden Power beat out Hydro Pump to show that Geodude was stronger, and Azumarill was finished by Rollout because it wasn't strong enough to recover and counterattack. Frankly, it feels like they're trying to make the whole situation seem way more complex than it really is. Azumarill wasn't naturally powerful, so it easily fell to a Rock-type that had been trained to deal with Water-types. Paul, who at the time was still only concerned with power, deemed it worthless and got rid of it.
- Karma Houdini: Paul somehow gets away with badmouthing his Azumarill in front of Roark, who doesn't react at all. In earlier episodes, Gym Leaders and other officials would scold Trainers who did this.
I deleted this one for being far too small of an offense, so they proceeded to instead add an extensive list
of Paul's misdeeds that didn't go directly punished. I will say that most of them are technically accurate, and I'm well aware that Paul's situation with karma is the main source of his Base-Breaking Character status. But again, my counterargument still stands: first off, every jerk rival had numerous petty douche moments that weren't called out. But also, according to the page itself, Karma Houdini is mainly supposed to be for finished works where the character never received any form of comeuppance, which does not apply to Paul in the slightest. Going over each entry individually in bold:
- Karma Houdini: From being unkind and a terrible sport to acts of abuse, Paul gets away with a lot of misbehavior in the early part of the series.
- In DP046, Ash, Dawn, and Brock are separated from one another and each happens to encounter Paul while trying to find the others. Each time, one of the heroes asks Paul if he's seen the others, only for Paul to tell each of them no in turn, which in the case of Dawn and Brock is a straight-up, certified lie. This isn't brought up at all when the heroes reunite. This was such a small act of annoyance in a completely nonserious filler that's it's a nitpick at best.
- The Hearthome City Battle Competition (DP050-DP052) offers a hearty helping of Paul's cruelty, none of which he gets punished for. This here's the big one. Paul's lack of immediate punishment during this arc is probably the single biggest source of debate behind him. However, regardless of how you feel about it, the fact remains that Paul did receive karma for these actions (albeit much later): that he lost to the very Pokemon that he abused and released in the Sinnoh League. It's Karma Houdini Warranty at bare minimum.
- Paul's vicious attempts to harness Chimchar's Defense Mechanism Superpower: throwing Chimchar into intense danger, having his own pokémon attack it, and even deliberately forcing it to relive its own trauma by putting it against a Zangoose.
- When the heroes and even a Nurse Joy insist Paul let Chimchar rest and recover from the suffering it has endured at Paul's hands, Paul apparently agrees, only to throw Chimchar into the next battle and reveal he was only pretending so people would get off his back.
- During one battle, Paul—whose attempts to put Chimchar through this training have been continuously thwarted by Ash—demands Chimchar attack Ash's Turtwig.
- When a traumatized Chimchar fails to activate its Defense Mechanism Superpower in the heat of the moment, Paul turns his back on Chimchar and the battle, leaving Ash to try and command both Turtwig and Chimchar and salvage victory. Paul later kicks Chimchar off of his team and spitefully tells Ash and Chimchar that they deserve the worst—each other—when Ash offers the chimp a place on his.
- In DP064, Paul takes advantage of the others' effort to relocate a flock of Gligar safely out of a city in order to capture the powerful Gliscor leading the flock. Paul's success causes the flock to disperse and makes the relocation effort vastly more difficult and dangerous, but once Ash confronts him about the chaos he's caused Paul shrugs it off and leaves. Paul is never held to account for the difficulties caused or lives endangered by setting the Gligar loose. For one thing, the part about "endangered lives" is just false. But also, while this moment might qualify for Lack of Empathy, there's no karma that could've actually happened here. Technically all he was doing was catching a wild Gliscor.
- In DP066, Paul needlessly insults rookie Gym Leader Maylene with such contempt that it puts her in a Heroic BSoD. He never apologizes or faces comeuppance for this decision to Kick the Dog. This is another nitpick. Yes, this was very rude, but if that somehow makes him a Karma Houdini then every jerk rival is one too.
- In the same episode, Paul's older brother Reggie acknowledges that Paul has always had a cruel streak, but Reggie—the closest thing to a parental authority figure in Paul's life—gives no indication of having ever tried to confront or punish Paul for his historic behavior. This doesn't even have anything to do with karma to begin with.
- In DP081, Paul taunts Ash's team by insisting that pokémon only lose because of the trainer—as if Paul didn't blame Azumarill's weakness for its loss at Roark's gym or tell Chimchar it should be ashamed for being knocked out by Cynthia's Garchomp. No one calls him out for being a Hypocrite. See above. This has nothing to do with karma.
- When Ash praises Staravia during the Tag Team Tournament after Paul's Torterra defeats Brock and Holly, Paul sarcastically asks Ash if they even did anything. While rude to say, it's not inaccurate as Torterra single handedly defeated both of their opponents. Downplayed though, given that it was Torterra's attacks blocking Staravia that prevented it from even landing a hit.
was deleted
in favor of this Never My Fault entry:
- In a late battle of the Tag Team Tournament, Paul's Torterra single-handedly defeats Brock's and Holly's pokemon, and Paul dismisses his "partner" Ash's attempts to congratulate Staravia on the grounds that Staravia contributed nothing—Staravia was certainly trying, but it was also busy trying to maneuver around Torterra's wild and reckless attacks (it even got singed by Hyper Beam), a fact Paul does not see fit to acknowledge.
I actually do think this scene could qualify for both tropes (though less for the reasons stated and more because Paul proceeded to criticize Staravia for being too slow). But there's no reason to have deleted the Jerkass Has a Point one, since Paul did have a point. Staravia contributed nothing to the battle while Torterra won all on its own. The deleted bullet even pointed out the ways in which it was downplayed.
openJackpot21 edit war in Ladybug's fridge page Western Animation
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/MiraculousLadybug
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Jackpot21
Yep.
Though this time, hopefully this is a more straightforward case that won't turn into a shouting match.
So yesterday Jackpot was on the Ladybug fridge page and removed a few entries, a concept I personally find rather poor in taste. For some of the removed bits Jackpot gives a reason.
...
Alya already established herself worthy of being a heroine nor has Cholé been contrasted with the other heroes. Marinette and Adrien have had several slip ups that go ignored like Juleka, but even then that isn’t enough to say she’s a terrible liar.
...
TLDR on the first one, there are a series of fridge observations regarding Chloe B and her (fanbase aggravating) rise and fall in hero worth that compare and contrast and several of them, though not all of them, were removed by Jackpot. For example how Marinette's stress dreams in Sentibubbler where Chloe (and Cat Blanc) appeared could be because Marinette was more hurt by the Chloe fall than she lets on, or that she sees self-hypocrisy in giving Alya her miraculous full time (the latter part Jackpot keeps), and how one can contrast Alya specifically distracting Marinette's friends in another episode with a fake bad ankle, thus helping Marinette sneak off and drawing a comparison with how Chloe would act in a 'oh hey an Akuma, time to be Queen Bee' scenario in season 3 at several points. (This builds off several other fridges by several others, including myself, in contrasts with Chloe with things like her replacement's costume, the hero King Monkey and how his development contrasts with that of Queen Bee, and an entry of mine that Jackpot had deleted some time ago comparing Chloe's actions to that of the other temp heroes in one episode)
So, while I decided that my own entry on Juleka's noticeable secret identity slip ups was probably not worth fighting for, I restored most of what Jackpot had removed. The page is edited fairly often by myself and others, so these entries were all either by others or ideas I had submitted and had been edited by others into an new form over the course of other edits over the course of months (being tweaked with words and links by others to better the entry), noting to Jackpot where the Alya and Chloe comparison stuff had come from and a bit on how I don't see the problem in people having their own fridge conclusions you don't agree with.
Like people can think about stuff in the plot that isn't being said aloud that you don't necessarily agree with, and it can still be there.
So afterwards I have a bit of a spree of ideas and do a few more edit bits into Ladybug's fridge page, a few more ideas, a few expanding sentences for context, a few spelling corrections, some stuff like that.
Then comes the Edit War, where Jackpot removes a few of the same entries again. The removed entries the first and second time by Jackpot are.
...
- Trixx is in the Miracle Box when Luka rushes to retrieve Sass. It’s likely that Alya occasionally returns her Kwami to the box to throw off Shadow Moth, as was done in episodes like Hack-San.
...
Which I had expanded on after putting back with a point that she did just that to enhance the fridge argument.
...
there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or
being removed from
- As for why Chloé is in the dream, there are two options: either Marinette, who initially seemed not too taken aback by her betrayal, was far more hurt by it than she let on, or it’s likely Marinette recognizes her hypocrisy in letting Alya keep the Fox Miraculous even though Shadow Moth knows her true identity while she benched Chloé for the exact same reason.
...
This entry below, which was one that, while I had created the original one, had been edited and improved by others since including Jackpot over the course of two months into the above form.
...
- Gabriel was the one to figure out a creative plan for Optigami when Nathalie was convinced it was a failure after the straightforward spying mission went nowhere. Gabriel is a designer by trade after all; he's a bit more creative than her.
...
And his other 'I had created the base idea that others had then expanded, tweaked, and improved on' entry.
...
- This episode continues Season 4's subtle contrast between Chloé's worthiness and that of other temporary wielders. When Alya sees a brewing Akuma event in episode, and Marinette requests a distraction, she immediately fakes a bad ankle to let Marinette slip away and prety much ensure she'd have no chance to use Trixx this time. Last season, Chloé took multiple Akuma attacks as a moment to be Queen Bee first and foremost.
...
This being Jackpot's argument for removing stuff I had put back.
...
This page is for pointing out certain details that aren’t addressed in the series, not for people to make their own conclusions. The entries I removed were either speculative, redundant, or are your interpretations.
...
Like...not entirely sure what the point of that is. Going 'this is a plausible reason why the Kwami was back in the box when he would otherwise not be', especially with an example of that happening in the series, feels like it covers that threshold.
Though given that four fridge entries, by multiple people adding and working on them, got removed twice in an editing sequence...more straightforward right?
open Odd deletions and edit reasons. Live Action TV
So the troper Pikachu 4 Prezident
Has made some deletions with some concerning edit reasons.
- Here.
They deleted a Values Resonance entry I think (I don't know where it was) with an edit reason that states this And as a final point, the whole "men in miniskirts" thing was stupid-looming back then and it still very much looks dumb now. I don't get why everyone feels the need to inject current year politics into their edits...
Theirs also this one.
- where tbf
the entry itself might be kinda a stretch. But his actual edit reason is strange.
There seems to be an agenda here....
Edited by miraculousopenRedundant image links pages
Fireblood has created dozens upon dozens of redundant Image Links pages. They always consist of an image (not a link to the image, but the image itself) that is identical to the one on the work's main page, and nothing else. This
is the latest one I found, and despite me having cutlisted all of these redundant IL pages over the course of several months, I'm still finding them.
openDisabled in the Adaptation Entry Question Live Action TV
This is on the Disabled in the Adaptation page. Unmarked spoilers ahead!
- The Walking Dead:
- Two surviving (as of this edit) characters from the source material, Sophia Peletier and Carl Grimes, both die in the show by becoming walkers.
My assumption is that in the show, Sophia becomes a walker and Carl shoots himself in the head to prevent himself from reanimating. And even then, is this really an example since the two characters in the entry clearly don't demonstrate any disabilities while they're alive. Thanks.

YMMV.Halo Infinite
Besides the entries seeming to conflict, I believe UU doesn't apply to too much which is too subjective (and given they sacrificed their lives they did everything possible to atone), but for objectively different reasons than acknowledged by the work. The last part of UU was recently added explain that. Is this a widespread enough to count (there is a lot of valid but unrelated salt over her Face–Heel Turn in the first place that could be influencing this)? Should it be reworked to emphasized she's UU due to seemingly only regretting the consequences as opposed to her evildoing?
Also asked UU cleanup
. But any other feedback would be appreciated.