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open Can we put some of our unused/discouraged practices of TV Tropes in Discredited Meme?
We've evolved for quite awhile. I still remember back then when TV Tropes still has A LOT of phrases accompanying either Tear Jerker or Heartwarming Moments: "If you do not tear up on this scene, then you're a horrible, heartless human being without a soul."
But of course, right now, we are not allowed to do it anymore. For good reasons and I agree with the sentiments of disallowance.
Still, here's a question... Is that an example of Discredited Meme? I thought the "have no soul" thing back then was quite widespread that it's a TV Tropes-ish meme. Now that it's extremely discouraged, does it look like an example of the trope Discredited Meme? Is it OK to add that in the page or I shouldn't?
Thank you very much. I would try to add that myself, but just so I don't step into a landmine, I might as well ask here first. Pretty sure there are other 'formerly OK, now discouraged' practices, but I'll just use that as an example first.
Edited by ChrisXopenTaylor Swift-Kanye West incident at the VMAs
From Heartwarming.Real Life Other:
- At the 2009 MTV Video Music Awards, when Taylor Swift went up on stage to accept her Moonman for Best Female Video, she was rudely interrupted by Kanye West, who infamously declared that "Beyonce had the best video of all time!" So when Beyoncé herself wins the award for Video of the Year, what does she do? Rather than deliver the acceptance speech that she had prepared, she invited Taylor back on stage to finish hers.
- Harsher in Hindsight as experienced media reviewers spotted evidence that the "interruption" had been prearranged
. Beyonce's husband Jay-Z later revealed that it had indeed been staged.
- Harsher in Hindsight as experienced media reviewers spotted evidence that the "interruption" had been prearranged
Disclaimer that I am a Swift fan and not a West one, but I attempted to search for Jay-Z's "reveal" and Google turned up no results. The "experienced media reviewers" seem to be giving nothing but speculation and gossip, and even the comment section of that page calls them out on it.
Should the second bullet point be removed, then?
Edited by annieholmesopenRemoval due to Rule of Caution Editing Judgement?
This entry of WebOriginal.Role Ending Misdemeanor was deleted by troper Super_Weegee just giving Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement as an edit reason:
- In September 2022, Cloudflare dropped the notorious website, KiwiFarms, from their DoS protection services, after a campaign organized by Canadian transgender activist and Twitch streamer, Clara "Keffals" Sorrenti, who herself was one of the victims of constant doxxing and harassment by the website, culminating in a swatting incident which made her flee the country. Cloudflare initially made a statement in response to Sorrenti's campaign, declining to drop KiwiFarms from their services, they walked back their statement a few days later when the threats escalated into threats of violence. And during the week after that, KiwiFarms was also dropped from other services, like Captcha, and their Russian and Chinese domains.
So far, I don't think there's anything in the post that's factually incorrect or biased, thoughts?
open Edit War alert (self report)
Some background first. There are two characters in Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch from Mercury that fan presumed to be the same character. The first one is Ericht, a 4 years old girl from Prologue episode, and the other is Suletta, the heroine of the show who's stated to be 17. But the recent 6th episode has dialogue implies that the Prolgue takes place 21 years before the main story. So they're unlikely to be the same character.
While it's true that the dialogue isn't explicit that the 21 years old incident is the Prologue, there is no official words that they're the same character either.
So I removed all assumption that Ericht being Suletta
from Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam The Witch From Mercury.
The next day, frankywifeey274 added them back without edit reason
. I removed them again the next day
state that it's speculation and sent Speculation notifier to frankywifeey274. They added it back later, without edit reason
.
They sent PM to me, claims that there is no proof that they aren't the same character and how "The official Gundam wiki" states they are the same and so the page should remain as is. I replied that there's no such thing as "official Gundam wiki", only fans-operate ones. And as I noted, there is no official source ever state that they're the same character at all. Their next PM pull argument from ignorance that there's no proof that they aren't the same character beyond the statement from 6th episode. Again, I replied that Ericht being Suletta is the speculation itself and it was tolerant prior but now the show suggest that it might not be true. There's no further PM and the edit is still there.
So I did start the Edit War. My defense is that it's to remove Speculative Troping, although I realized it might not be obvious to a third party.
open Draco in Leather Pants misuse
I've noticed a lot of DILP entries that don't really make the case that fans are downplaying a villain's crimes, but instead act like merely liking or defending the villain at all qualifies as the trope, even if fans still acknowledge that they're the villain. These entries often make aspersions on the work's fandom, or read like this: "[Character] gets this a lot from fans, but this ignores the fact that they [list of the villain's crimes]." Some of these entries also come off as sexist, such as this one:
- The Dark Knight Trilogy: The Joker and the Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane seem to get this a lot in fanfiction for the Nolanverse Batman films. Leave it to crazed fangirls to pick two of the most evil characters in a series that actually has several sympathetic (or in the case of the ordinary mobsters, at least normal) villains to crush on.
It also doesn't help that the trope page itself seems to attribute the trope to fans finding the villain physically attractive, and states (without citing any evidence) that it's mostly fangirls who invoke the trope. I'm starting to think it might be better if this trope was limited to specific fanon examples, similar to what was done with Ron the Death Eater. Thoughts?
Edited by Javertshark13openSelf-reporting - image replacement Print Comic
So...
As a new(ish) troper, when I started actively editing works pages, I swapped out a fair few images for 'better' versions on both ComicBook and Characters pages. By which I mean different images that looked better, not just permitted quality upgrades.
At that point I hadn't fully understood the Image Pickin' rules and how they also applied to non-trope pages with existing images that weren't Image Pickin' approved.
Now, after much more troping, I have a much better understanding of the tools and customs for making that sort of change.
I've never had notifiers on this, and other tropers working on the same pages seemed to be comfortable with the changes. But. This is one of those things where I have seen other tropers get notified and suspended months or years after a change. And I'd prefer not to get caught up In that months or years further down the line, especially if that comes up multiple times on different occasions for the different images.
So what's the best way to make it right? Is it a case of leave it and deal with it if a particular image is challenged, or should I try to look back through history and take the cases to Image Pickin' (or elsewhere) to get them reviewed and confirmed or overturned?
Edited by MacronNotesopenCan Playing With pages be Self-Demonstrating?
I've written up a Playing With page for Back to Front, but I was considering making it Self-Demonstrating. (Starting with a link back to the main page and ending with Basic Trope.) Is this allowed?
openSubverted vs Deconstructed Reformed Rake
I'm working on PlayingWith.Reformed Rakes and I need some help. What would be the difference between a Subverted Trope and a Deconstructed Trope in the specific context of the trope Reformed Rake.
The idea of Reformed Rake is that how a man acts prior to marriage is not indicative of how he will act in marriage. Thus you can get the sexiness of All Girls Want Bad Boys but also the wholesomeness of Family Man, by way of The Power of Love.
The "other version" is that no, actually there is some overlap between how a man acts outside his marriage and how he will act within it, and that expecting otherwise is naïve.
The question then is whether this is deconstructing the trope or subverting it. In the examples on the page, it's often call it a deconstruction. I knee-jerk called it a deconstruction myself.
But after thinking about it some more, is that scenario not more of a subversion? The point is that the trope is unrealistic, and so the realistic scenario is the trope not happening. But isn't the trope not happening (after it seemed like it would) actually a subversion?
And if that's actually a subversion, what would a real deconstruction be?
openConcerns Regarding HardTruthAesop - Bojack Horseman
I have many concerns regarding the "Aesop's" described in https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HardTruthAesop/BoJackHorseman
. There's a lot of info that could be seen a disparaging to people with mental illness, and perpetuates some opinions on the subject that I personally find offensive. Granted I am fairly emotional about the topic lately, so if I am overreacting please let me know.
The ones regarding suicide in particular are pretty hot-button and could potentially bring up traumatic memories for people (it did for me). The entries do not seem to recognize or even acknowledge that people who are suicidal are not making a decision. Intervention is important, and although I agree that no one should feel obligated to be someone's support, I also don't think we should be encouraging people to abandon their loved ones when they have a suicide attempt. Not that I think that's the intention of this sentiment, but I do see it becoming more common recently as a push back against supporting people with mental illness.
Also, (digression) I personally find this to be a pretty negative Double Standard. I highly doubt a character with a physical illness would be given as much blame for putting stress on others because of their illness. I wonder if there's a better way to explain this without putting blame on mentally ill people, because that's kinda what it feels like. Like by putting more focus on self-care, instead of implicitly criticizing people for attempting suicide.
openMythological Figures and Character Rerailment in Adaptations
I noticed that Character Rerailment, a YMMV trope, was in Mr. Wednesday/Odin's folder on the Character page for American Gods. Normally, I would have just moved it to the YMMV page, but since it's about how the novel chooses to adapt a mythological figure, I decided to ask for advice on whether or not that would indeed be the right course of action.
The entry was as follows:
- Character Rerailment: Post-Eddas, Odin has been mostly portrayed as a Grandpa God. Here, he has the more chaotic and selfish personality of older mythology.
openMerging Two Articles Videogame
The article for Leviathan is in a sorry state and would be difficult to repair/add content for. The work itself is a short, direct prequel to Limbus Company, whose article is in a much better state.
Would it make sense to cut Leviathan's article and simply add its tropes to Limbus Company's? There would be folders separating the two, of course.
open Edit War on Love of Kill Anime
I swore to myself I was going to avoid this page from now on but I need to report myself and another troper for edit-warring. Back in January I added the following example to Love of Kill (and admittedly with an unnecessarily rude edit reason because I was furious at having wasted my lunch break watching it, thinking it would be similar to SPY×FAMILY).
- Sexual Extortion: Song (AN: male lead) spends the first episode (or first few manga chapters) extorting a "date" from Chateau (AN: female lead) in exchange for information she needs for her day job and only manages to not actually rape her because she finally musters the nerve to actually leave the hotel room he takes her to at the end of it. He still manages to force a hug on her before she gets on the train to go home.
This example was first modified due to a factual error in the original version (perfectly okay), and then deleted outright by Ominae (not okay). I re-added it, and then immediately realized I was edit-warring and posted on the discussion tab
. I fully admit I blew it.
Without checking the discussion tab or taking note of the legal definition of sexual harassment, Ominae removed the example again.
I freely admit that I was unnecessarily rude and have an irrational hatred for this series (I consider it to be the best fantasy for incels since Redo Of Healer), but everything in the example is factually correct.
openWhat to do with this?
The page itself has no example, but it host several of other Podcast pages which look fine enough.
openTroper forcing a CompleteMonster pothole on a non-YMMV page
First of all: yes, I'm aware the Complete Monster trope is currently going through some major revisions, and the cleanup threads are being revamped right now, so directing them to the thread isn't going to help out much.
That said:
Fidor
just added a Complete Monster pothole to Characters.IT with an EDIT reason that boils down to "I want to pothole Complete Monster to a non-YMMV page regardless what the rules says, because I just want to...."
Looking through the page's history of 500-odd edits, this isn't the first time someone had tried forcing a CM pothole up there, including an instance in 2016 where the CM curator ACW removed a Complete Monster pothole because... well, it's a YMMV trope. Note that it's clearly specified on the page itself: there's no In-Universe trope for Complete Monster
, characters calling out others is You Monster!
And that Fidor
is a new troper who barely had any edits, yet is already insisting on potholing a YMMV item on a character page...
open Alcohol/drugs as a character establisher?
Edit: Sorry, will post this on Trope Finder! Is there a specific trope that refers to alcohol and/or other drugs being used as a signifier that a character is self-destructive or otherwise not mentally stable?
Edited by sparkkeysopenGrowing The Beard misuse (only happens once)?
- Growing the Beard:
- While the pilot was entertaining and did a good job at introducing the characters, many view the first proper episode as an improvement for having a continuous narrative plot instead of just random skits and cutaway gags. It fully grows in with "Loo Loo Land", where the cast and crew showed their ability to have some genuinely heartfelt and serious moments in an otherwise comedic show, to the point that even some of the pilot's detractors have said the episode made them take Stolas seriously as a character.
- The second instance of this is when "The Harvest Moon Festival" debuted. Some fans started to feel that, while the Rogues Gallery are fun to watch, the villains themselves are a bit too interchangeable with one another. The basic formula seems to be that the antagonist of the week is psychotic, bigoted towards imps, hates Blitzo, or some combination of the three. They are eventually subdued by the end of the episode, rinse and repeat. "The Harvest Moon Festival" spices things up with the introduction of Striker, who is considerably more unique than what we’ve seen so far. He has an enmity with someone other than Blitzo (Moxxie), almost manipulated Blitzo into joining his side, and gets away unscathed near the end while still being in a position to continue his orders from Stella, who hired him to kill her promiscuous husband. Subsequent episodes will push even more improvements. "Truth Seekers" which has Blitzo having a truth-serum addled epiphany, softening his heart towards Moxxie and even returning Stolas' affections to his delight, ticking off some Character Development for them. It also ended with a very genuine risk of a Broken Masquerade that could have long-lasting repercussions to Earth, Heaven and Hell. "OZZIE'S" has multiple memorable characters return, stifling worries that they would be one-shot characters.
The second bullet was recently added. I believe it is misuse as GTB can only happen once as it's the point it being to get good/improve itself, not every moment of such. I edited the entry before so I'm asking here first. Is that the case/should it be removed?
openGenshin Impact - major gamebreaker page renovation Videogame
Genshin Impact's gamebreaker page has become a bit bloated, so myself and another troper have been proposing ways to trim it down. But because this is going to be a very large-scale edit, I wanted more than just one other voice on this before we start pruning. My proposed changes are:
1. Gamebreakers are based on spiral abyss performance only. It's the only "endgame" content and the main-game and timed events are generally too easy to warrant a gamebreaker page. I'd also like to add a disclaimer that gamebreakers are not necessary to "win" at this game since the spiral abyss has very little rewards and this is an expensive Gacha game.
2. Character write-ups focus on their gamebreaking aspects only. Currently they seem to go over every part of their kit leading to bloated entries often getting too far into walkthrough mode or adding meaningless dribble.
3. Cut the artifacts section. It focuses on set bonuses, which while nice are not as important as the substats at the mercy of RNG (so a mixed set with great substats will beat a set bonus with meh stats). That and most characters have more than one viable set, so which is "gamebreaking" is subjective. The Emblem of Severed Fate is the only one worth keeping imo, as while others just amplify already strong characters this one actually fixes holes and makes certain playstyles viable.
4. Cut the elemental reactions section. At this time about two-thirds of all the reactions in the game are listed, making the list less novel. About every reaction has a viable team set-up, so at this point we're just saying it pays to use the game's central mechanic.
What do you think?
openFormatting for a WMG page Web Original
Hi folks, I made a WMG page for the first time ever at Outside Xbox (for the purpose of their TTRPG series' only). I divided some of it by folders as I know is done for some topics on other pages (perhaps getting ahead of myself there) ... but the formatting seems off when I compare it to a couple of other pages of similar sorts. Could anyone please advise? Kind regards - captainmarkle
Edited by captainmarkleopenDo I need permission to declare a trope as Discredited/Dead Horse/etc...?
As the title says. For example, Interchangeable Asian Cultures seems to me to fit pretty well the definition of Discredited Trope, but it's not called as such in the description itself, nor is it indexed in Discredited Trope, Dead Horse Trope, etc... I'd be inclined to put it there with an explanation, but I'm not sure if I need to gather consensus before or I'm good to go.

The characters page is split based on each game. The first game has its own continuity, and the third game introduces some AU Counterparts, but the Hyperdimension characters appear repeatedly throughout the series, so they're often just getting the same tropes on each game's character page. Wouldn't it be better to have Character Specific Pages like Broly's with folders for different continuities as well as one for common traits?
Edited by KOman