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open Argument over a fanfic with a deleted page - resolution needed
Someone needs to step in on the comments section of a review thread.
A little over six years ago, one troper (Valiona) wrote a negative review
of a fanfic by another troper (deltanine) who rewrote a chapter of Fairy Tail so that Erza Scarlet enacts Cold-Blooded Torture on her tormentor, Kyouya, far beyond anything that was done to her (and far more violent than is typical of Fairy Tail as a whole, but the author has continuously defended the events of their story as justified and insists that it isn't a Troll Fic). In 2021, delta bumped the review to complain about the P5 decision to zap the work page advertising it (instead of appealing to the mods after their ATT complaint was rejected
after being told that they don't have the final say in what goes on the page and what doesn't). As recently as two days ago, delta bumped the review a second time to complain about the deletion again, and the conversation since has steered off-topic from discussing the merits/demerits of the fic to other users complaining about delta's necro-posting.
P.S. I wanted to use the ATT function instead of the "Flag This" link in the review since that indicates there's some problem with the quality of the review itself (I don't think there is).
Edited by MacronNotesopen Trim the fat. Western Animation
I want to add two characters to The Simpsons Nelson I’ve done but it comes across as bloated
Nelson is presented as someone who grew beyond his initial characterization of a Barbaric Bully by being provided some Hidden Depths. In many ways he comes across as a Distaff Counterpart to Lisa. However it is when analyze his relationship with Bart that his trope comes into play. Nelson is shown to be given numerous advantages with people going out of their way to help him. you are supposed to feel sorry for him when he suffers the consequences of his actions but he never really shows remorse or even acknowledges that he did anything wrong. all in all his life is used more as Jerk Justifications then a legitimate Freudian Excuse.
- As stated above he he took advantage of Marge letting him into her home by to bully Bart, and even after Bart found his father and reunited his family he refused to stop doing it. When they became friends in "The Haw-Hawed Couple" it is treated as a allegory for a toxic relationship with Nelson checking all of the boxes of an abuser, but despite this Bart is treated as a Fair-Weather Friend instead of a victim . this also ignored the fact that that they only became friends because Bart was the only one who came to his party (he was forced) after he stole everyone’s money.
- Better Off Ned finally deconstructs Homer’s habit of using Operation: Jealousy on his son. It shows just how cruel this to the child Homer uses, but still plays it completely straight with Bart who Nelson tried to Murder the Hypotenuse. The episode ends with Nelson having shoved Milhouse into a freezer despite Ned mentoring him. Finally, Nelson’s response to being punished for breaking Bart’s arm in Top Goon was to go Then Let Me Be Evil and join the mafia
All I have for principle skinner is a basic and I can’t figure out how to start it. First is his relationship with bart you are supposed to feel sorry for him because bart is his worst nightmare. However Springfield elementary is repeatedly shown to be the worst school in city. In fact whenever bart and lisa are taken out of the school or even their respective classes because they are actually being taught his grades rise and her’s lowers. Then there is the fact that because he’s a Dean Bitterman he’s always actively scheming for ways to make the school worse then it already by cutting its already abysmal budget. Finally his relationship with bart just comes across as creepy. Skinner never shows the same obsession with other kids that he does with bart. Stalking him when he thinks he's cutting school, putting a student on his payroll in Bart's gang as a mole and setting up stings to get Bart in trouble so he'll commit detention-worthy crimes.
This same thing applies with his relationship with Superintendent Chalmers who repeatedly belittles and yells at him. however as stated Skinner is incompetent at his job while skinner finally standing up to him in "Bart Stops to Smell the Roosevelts" is supposed to be a Catharsis Factor its undercut by Chalmers actually teaching bart.
After several seasons of watching Principal Skinner be belittled and yelled at by Superintendent Chalmers for not being able to contain Bart Simpson's rampages, it can be extremely gratifying to see Principal Skinner finally stand up to him for a change in, telling Chalmers that he should just teach Bart himself if he thinks it's such an easy job. Chalmers' shocked reaction and the teachers outright cheering for Skinner make it even better.
What really makes him this is Edna you are supposed to feel sorry for him because she doesn’t want to get back together with him. however in "Special Edna" he’s shown to be incredibly abusive. It’s insinuated that him constantly canceling dates with her to spend time with his mother is due to the belief that she can’t do better. he only started making an effort in their relationship after she was nominated for "Teacher of the Year" before outright sabotaging her. despite this she accepts his his marriage proposal. When he gets cold feet in But in "My Big Fat Geek Wedding" she breaks up with him seeing that his proposal was just another escalation of his abusive behavior. Afterwards he keeps pestering her to get back together and the first thing he did upon finding out that her and Ned were together was to brag that he had slept with her.
Finally you can’t even feel sorry for him because of how overbearing agnis is as he was the one who chose her over edna.
All in all skinner comes across as a Insufferable Imbecile then someone who the audience is supposed to sympathise with.
openEdit war on TOTK Character page
On May 14th, troper Codemon added this trope
to the Other Races subpage for Tears of the Kingdom.
- Ascended Fanon: Either that, or the biggest case of Contrived Coincidence in the series' history. Mineru appears to be heavily based on Yaraxonal from the fangame Hyrule Conquest (formerly Hyrule Total War.), who predates Mineru by a decade. Don't believe it? Compare them side
◊ by side
◊. It's not just their appearance; they are both thousands of years old Sages of Spirit who were sealed in stone, have a familiar relation to another ancient character (Yaraxonal is the wife of Senturon, who himself has some major overlaps with Rauru), share a color scheme of black, orange and gold, and their height of about two times that of Hylians. Given Tears of the Kingdom's developement team is composed of many younger and fresh developers, it's possible some of them happen to be fans of Hyrule Conquest and took some of its content as inspiration.
As it's a trivia trope, I removed it
citing as such in the edit reason. A few hours later, Codemon re-added it
with no edit reason.
openWeird additions.
So on YMMV.Arrow Nyame changed
this entry from this:
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show.
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character Took a Level in Jerkass and became the biggest Base-Breaking Character in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the entire franchise at one point), but the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
Which is weird considering that: a) It is just adding more negativity. b) While her being a Base-Breaking Character could be relevant, I don't see how that makes it justified. c) YMMV can't be justified. This is not the first time they have add something like this noted here
and here
- Changed
an approved rewrite of the Fan-Preferred Couple entry for Oliver/Felicity from neutral to overly complainy.
- Kept adding negativity to example rewritten to be more neutral inculcluding
a Creator's Pet one.
- The make an entry
for LovingAShadow.Fan Works which is more about their Alternate Character Interpretation of the show's version of Felicity. Which was then removed
. Only to add a nearly identical one to LovingAShadow.Live Action TV here
- They add negativity about Felicity and the ship to an originally neutral
Launcher of a Thousand Ships entry to about Oliver.
They also recently they:
- Added
a Fan Nickname entry based on hatedom rather then fandom.
- Added
more additions
complaining about Felicity to an already very negative Alternative Character Interpretation entry.
Now to be fair a most of their other edits are fine from my look through their edit history. It just seems to be that this ship brings out their bias Something they have acknowledged as a possibility
. Either way I wanted opinions on if that should be kept in the Die for Our Ship entry or not more then anything else.
openQuestion about a removed entry
On Fridge.Event Horizon, this entry was removed:
- A dimension where none of our physics work, called "a dimension of pure chaos", would wreak havoc with our bodies—especially brain chemistry—at a quantum level. No wonder people would go batshit crazy—imagine having your entire body infused with drugs, made from your own chemistry and more.
It was filed under the "Fridge Horror" part of the page, and it was removed with this edit reason: "this isn't fridge horror, it's just speculating on the mechanics of a self-evidently horrifying concept."
Is this actually a valid entry for Fridge Horror?
Edited by TheNerfGuyopenAvoiding an edit war
So on Trivia.Wednesday I deleted
this entry:
- Creator Backlash: Jenna Ortega has stated how she was strongly against the love triangle between Wednesday, Xavier, and Tyler, believing that's not what viewers would want to see Wednesday involved in.
I removed it after discussing it here
, because Creator Backlash is where they express dislike for the whole work and not just one aspect. Impaler added
this new entry for it
- Creator Backlash: In the “Armchair Expert” podcast, Jenna Ortega reveals she despized most of the writing about her character, like the dialogue and the love triangle.
Jenna Ortega: "I don’t think I’ve ever had to put my foot down more on a set in a way that I had to on ‘Wednesday'. Everything that Wednesday does, everything I had to play, did not make sense for her character at all. Her being in a love triangle? It made no sense. There was a line about a dress she has to wear for a school dance and she says, ‘Oh my god I love it. Ugh, I can’t believe I said that. I literally hate myself.’ I had to go, ‘No. There were times on that set where I even became almost unprofessional in a sense where I just started changing lines. The script supervisor thought I was going with something and then I had to sit down with the writers, and they’d be like, ‘Wait, what happened to the scene?’ And I’d have to go and explain why I couldn’t go do certain things.”
Again this is just one aspect (the writing) rather than the show as a whole like this trope is supposed to be and even then the quote doesn't scream despised. Plus I fail to see how the second bullet is backlash personally. Honestly this feels more like Wag the Director.
Can I get some more opinions on of this counts?
openItTakesTwo2021 (continued) misuse?
- Crosses the Line Twice: The infamous part where Cutie the Elephant is murdered by the main protagonists is intended to be over-the-top Black Comedy in the spirit of a Monty Python sketch. As the rest of this page shows, to most players, it crosses the line once and then stays there. YMMV cannot be played with so just not an example if so.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Cutie's death scene was supposed to make Cody and May seem like selfish assholes, but given that Cutie is clearly an intelligent being who feels pain and was nothing but kind to them, the end result is that they come off less as merely self-centered jerks and more as sociopaths. 'Misuse as it was intentional
which it notes and UU only applies if for unintentional reasons. Note that the editor replaced there prior version
which seemed better as it gave different reasons they were unlikeable.
I've previously deleted the subverted part of Crosses the Line Twice as Natter and a Designated Hero entry similar to the UU, so taking here first, and since it might be an ongoing issue.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaughtopen Under what YMMV trope does this fall?
On the Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze YMMV page there is this:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Lord Fredrik, the leader of the Snowmads, is a massive walrus. Not too bad until you immediately realize that walruses already serve as common enemies; with each boss beforehand being a unique animal (aside from Skowl), you'd expect Fredrik to be a unique being himself. Keeping in line with the winter wasteland theme of the game, he could easily have been a yeti, which would also serve as a good parallel to Donkey Kong himself. But nope, they just reused an animal enemy.
I think this is worth mentioning on the YMMV page but it doesn't fall under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character since this trope is about characters being underused rather than unproperly designed.
Is there a YMMV trope for disappointing reveals or something like that?
openThe original heavy metal umlaut. Music
I've picked up an interesting project to do here involving filling in the gaps on a band's discography, (Blue Öyster Cult) writing Works pages for LP's which are at present redlinks or not there at all. Happy to do this.
But two questions for the tropers:
i) An LP title is properly spelt The Revölution By Night. I've set the works page up - but it's only in the form Revolution By Night, so it really needs the page name to be edited on both counts. I'm not sure how to do this - inserting an umlaut into a work page title is something that needs to be specifically requested? .
ii) Also, the band's first LP, which needs a works page, is self-titled. But this namespace is being used for all tropes to do with the band in general, as Blue Öyster Cult. Is there a workround in situations like this?
Thanks for help!
open No Title
On the Real Life subpage for Facing Death With Dignity we've got listings for a Gestapo agent, Italian Fascists (including Benito Mussolini himself) and even Nicolae Ceausescu. Should we be listing these people on the wiki in this fashion?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FaceDeathWithDignity/RealLife
openWhy is this entry commented-out?
I found this on Reconstruction.Video Games:
- Cassette Beasts seeks to revitalize the Mons genre by redesigning around all the problems that come with Fridge-Horroring these adorably fluffy creatures. Rather than capturing monsters, brainwashing them to love you the moment they're enslaved, and forcing them to fight one another for your reputation, you're using your supernatural recorders to copy the data of monsters and turn into them yourselves, typically for self-defense from said fairly-aggressive monsters. You're allowed to casually store, trade away, or even destroy your unneeded monster cassettes, because you're not actually enslaving living beings, but making mindless copies of their data to use as your weapons and armor. 'Trainers' have a far more active role, as their own strengths fuel the respective strengths of their monster forms, they need to put themselves directly in harm's way to 'catch' a monster, and they take damage if they've pushed their monsters' health past the breaking point. The humans' unique strength is that they can combine with other trainers to make stronger monsters. The wackiness needed to live in a magical monster-infested world is thoroughly addressed, as the entire human cast has no idea why they're stuck in another world or how any of this wackiness functions, only that they have to make the most of it and harness what they can experiment with. Most of the loot you acquire from fighting monsters is literally trash washed up from other worlds, the kind of stuff you'd expect curious animals to hold onto - but in a world that's cut off from industry, bartering for raw materials like these is a necessity.
I have no idea why it's commented out — it seems pretty context-full to me, and there isn't a note explaining why — but I don't want to unhide it without a second opinion in case this counts as edit-warring.
open Every lifeform in the universe is robotic.
Simply put, humans, animals, plants, and every other life is An organic robot. I'm not referring to reality itself, just to who inhabits it.
openEdit War on SuperMarioBros movie
Troper Doctor Sleep originally added the following Deconstructed Character Archetype for Bowser in The Super Mario Bros. Movie:
"Bowser's violent tendencies and delusion that Peach would be into him are deconstructions of video game protagonists like Mario. He gains rewards by destroying anyone and anything that's different to himself and looting their kingdoms for treasure all so he can impress a princess that he sees as little more than another trophy."
This was later deleted with the reasoning that Mario's archetype (in most games) is as a working class hero who rescues a princess—without expectation of a relationship in return—from a villain, which has nothing to do with Bowser being a bully and feeling entitled to Peach.
Doctor Sleep later readded
this entry under Corrupted Character Copy, with some wording alterations (notably still insisting that Bowser is a deconstruction of Mario.) Setting aside the fact that this is misuse because Bowser is not an expy of Mario, is this an edit war?
For the record I think to suggest Bowser in the movie is a "deconstruction of protagonists like Mario" at all is incorrect. Mario as a protagonist does not attack all things different from him, he defends peaceful creatures from harmful ones. He does not do all of this to impress Peach, he usually does it for the motivation that it is simply the right thing to do. And Bowser in the movie does not rove around looting other worlds (he loots just one, because it specifically had something he wanted, and then he heads straight to the mushroom kingdom for Peach.) He is not motivated to attack things because they are "different from him", he attacks things because he is an ill-tempered bully. His entitlement to Peach is not based on him seeing himself as a "hero" to impress her, it is based on wanting to conquer everyone as husband and wife. In the movie, as in the games, he is simply the bad role model to Mario's good one, not an evil version of Mario.
openWeblinks to facebook and image hosting websites Anime
Hi everyone,
While reading the Nightmare Fuel page of Kimetsu no Yaiba
, I encountered an entry in the "Red Light District Arc" (third bullet point, second sub-bullet) which contains two weblinks: one to a facebook page, and one to what I guess is an image hosting website (well, your guess is as good as mine regarding a website called "sportshub" being that kind of website). Both links are used to show screens of what the character looks like in the anime.
From Weblinks Are Not Examples, it seems it is frowned upon to use links like that. Moreover, the entry itself is written well enough to not necessitate those images. Thus I'm contacting tropers to ask if I should remove these links or leave them as is. I know there is a tolerance for some weblinks (namely when linking to songs - and even then, broken You Tube links happen quite often), but I'm not quite sure this qualify.
EDIT: There is another instance of this kind of link a little further actually, under the "Chapter 92-94/S 2 E 10:" bullet point of the same folder.
Edited by NonoRobotopen Without Sin: All Star Edition Western Animation
Hi there, I'm the author of the fanfic Loud House Story "Without Sin: All Star Edition". A fan made an entry here on the site... and it was brought to my attention the story was cut.
Now, be that as it may for the entry being cut, after reading the thread involved, I saw a gross mischarterization of my story and wanted to set the record straight.
For one, the story is not an endorsement of Incest, or child sexual action. There are no explicit sex scenes within the story. There are no 'lemons', no detailed scenes of characters engaged in the act of sex with one another.
For two, the story does not condone what has transpired between Lincoln in the "Sinverse" and his sisters. The quotes that were used in the thread were all from 'Sin Lincoln"'s perspective. He is biased, that's the point. He doesn't want to see what transpired between himself and his sisters as 'wrong'.
For three, the 'sins' of his family have resulted in one of his own children being a victim within the story of grooming.
What has happened to Lemy, with his aunt 'Lily' is not presented as good and wholesome, but quite the opposite.
The point of this story is to take a good hard look at the 'sinkids' fandom in the Loud House, and present the realistic circumstances that would have to take place for them to exist...with a Lincoln from another world who was not involved in an incestuous relationship with his sisters becoming involved and how he reacts to it.
The story is not an endorsement of incest, child sexualploitation or anything akin to that. It is a condemnation of those things... while still presenting the children that resulted from the actions as 'innocent' of their parents's collective sins.
While titlation does exist within the story, there are no sex scenes and there will be no sex scenes within the story. I can understand if you think the story still does not 'belong' on tvtropes but I wanted to set the record straight exactly on what the story is NOT.
It is not an erotic incest pedophiliac story meant for wank material.
It is instead an exploration of the fandom of the Loud House that often has an incest filtered Kink, but in a realistic manner with the consequences of those actions.
Thank you.
openWork example, fanwork quote
There's a number of Warhammer 40 K examples illustrated with a quote from If The Emperor Had A Text To Speech Device, a fanwork. Do they need to be removed or can they be left in since it's commenting on a canon occurence of a trope?
For instance, on Wretched Hive:
- The Dark Eldar are a race of Always Chaotic Evil Space Elves, and their capital Commorragh fit the trope. The city is ruled by warring kabals and the only semblance of government is the biggest kabal that's powerful enough to boss the others around. Getting killed by a total stranger in broad daylight (well, technically due to its location in the Webway there is no day and night cycle in Commorragh, only perpetual twilight) in the middle of a street is seen as a perfectly normal occurrence. [...]
The Emperor of Mankind: If there is one place you do not want to find yourself alone, it is that place. If the galaxy was a run-down town, Commorragh would be the local nightclub-turned-insane asylum.
- The Dark Eldar are a race of Always Chaotic Evil Space Elves, and their capital Commorragh fit the trope. The city is ruled by warring kabals and the only semblance of government is the biggest kabal that's powerful enough to boss the others around. Getting killed by a total stranger in broad daylight (well, technically due to its location in the Webway there is no day and night cycle in Commorragh, only perpetual twilight) in the middle of a street is seen as a perfectly normal occurrence. [...]
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openWeird fetishy edit
On a Wiki Walk, I stumbled across Characters.Thumbelina 1994, where I noticed that the folder for Mrs. Fieldmouse described her as "An insanely sexy mouse lady". This edit was made in March
by rastapopoulos.
While it's a different kind of wrong, they also blanked
Characters.Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, a page they created themself.
Not sure if this is needing mod action just yet, but I felt like bringing it up.
openEdit War Web Original
On the recap page for RWBY's final episode for Volume 9
:
- Full Metal Heart 20 added a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome entry tackling Ruby's ascension
.
- It was deemed misuse by Wyldchyld, who deleted it
about four hours after it was added.
- Full Metal Heart 20 re-added the entry, albeit worded differently
with no given edit reason.

For a while, Gory Toons and its subpages frequently showed up in the recent edits list thanks to them being constantly edited by Happy Tree Sponge and Spongebob Fan 808. Now, this isn't a problem in and of itself, but when I looked at Spongebob Fan 808's troper page out of curiosity, I found a claim that they were the creator of Gory Toons; the statement has since been deleted, though it's still visible
in the page's history.
The reason why I bring this up is because they made several edits to the YMMV page over the past couple of months (1