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openHow to deal with a character whose innocence is unclear
In the FNAF Security Breach page YMMV page.
- Montgomery Gator is implied to have murdered Glamrock Bonnie to take his place in the band before being rendered Brainwashed and Crazy like the other antagonistic animatronics and has the most thuggish and aggressive personality of the bunch. Despite this, fan portrayals often downplay Monty's anger issues, portray him as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, and depict his decommissioning of Glamrock Bonnie as either an accident that he feels guilty about or something Vanny brainwashed him into doing, if he's even shown to be responsible for the incident at all. It's also implied that Monty is plotting to kill Glamrock Freddy in order to become the face of the Pizzaplex, and yet there are fans who ship them together. That's not even getting into all the fans who feel sorry for Monty, wanted him to get a happy ending, and like the idea of him as an ally.
OK, for the people who aren't familiar with FNAF: This isn't nearly so cut and dry as the entry makes it out to be. It is an Ambiguous Situation. On one hand Bonnie was last seen heading towards Monty's residence, but nothing from Monty himself hints he is particularly ambitious or hungry for fame and attention. In game Monty is hinted to be The Aloner who often misses out on main shows in favor of being by himself, and it's explicitly laid out that he did not possess the murder weapon (special, very sharp claw-upgrades) for Bonnie at the time Bonnie died. The idea that he's planning to kill Freddy comes from a scene in a Game Within A Game which is strongly implied to have been hacked by the main antagonist anyway (most if not all such games are), not being an easter egg but explicitly an actual level, making it less likely to be a look in Monty's mind. The fan base is pretty much split down the middle about whether or not he did it. While Monty is a (Brainwashed and Crazy) antagonist and he certainly has flaws, this particular thing is unclear. Also we don't know when Monty and the others become Brainwashed and Crazy, he COULD have easily been in such a state when Bonnie died. So yes, people do feel sorry for Monty, especially since there really is a case to be made for his innocence regarding Bonnie. I have no doubt Monty gets genuine DILP in some form as all FNAF antagonists do, but there is a case to make for Monty being innocent and many people (myself included) do. But since I am trying my best to be fair and impartial and I don't want to start an edit war, I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I move this text to Broken Base and modify it?
Edited by CatcherInTheWryopenDub-Induced Plot Hole misuse (not Plot Holes)?
- Naturally, this is the case when My Little Pony: Equestria Girls received a Japanese dub that was released on Netflix. Japanese viewers may be confused as to where Twilight suddenly got wings from, and why she suddenly has a crown and is a princess. Of course, since Season 3 of Friendship Is Magic had yet to air in Japan, which explains everything, this left a major plot hole in Equestria Girls' Japanese Dub. It got worse when Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games were quickly and subsequently released in the region. Rainbow Rocks features Twilight's new castle, and Friendship Games has a scene in its Stinger mentioning Twilight's time-travelling adventures. Naturally, since Seasons 3 and beyond have yet to come to Japan, this turned a mere plot hole into a plot canyon for Japanese viewers. Needless to say, many Japanese fans are not happy that the Equestria Girls films have been dubbed before the rest of Friendship Is Magic and have even boycotted this move by watching Japanese fansubbed versions of the original show in English online instead. This hasn't deterred anything it seems, as Legend of Everfree and the Magical Movie Night special were still released in Japan. Speaking of the latter, it features Starlight Glimmer, effectively making it her debut to Japanese audiences (and not her villainous self in "The Cutie Map"), thus expanding the plot holes even wider. Not sure if plot hole as it's effectively Out of Order (if/when the dub catches up) and/or offscreen developments. Only the first might be a plot hole as it's the only one critical to the logic of the story, the others are just nods. Dub Adaptation Explanation Extrication might be better.
- BIONICLE film examples: Swedish and Hungarian dubs of The Legend Reborn misinterpret the Great Beings as "Giant Beings", giving the impression that the huge robot assembled at the end of the movie is such a giant. The word "Great" is merely a fancy title, the Great Beings are no giants, they'd be about the same size as most of the main characters and the robot is one of their many creations, not an actual Great Being. Dub error, but not plot hole as it does not effect/break the internal logic behind this work. But one of the redirects is Errors Through Localization so does/can DIPH also cover non-plot holes?
openRegarding Omega Supreme on the ''Transformers'' Character page.
On this page, the folder for Omega Supreme is mostly written using Omega's speech patterns, as though he is describing himself. Should these entries as they're written now be offloaded to a Self-Demonstrating Page, or should they just be rewritten to match the wiki's standards? I'm inclined towards the latter, as there doesn't seem to be enough content to warrant a unique page for the character, but I wanted to check.
Edited by NotsofriendlyopenContinued Sinkhole issues.
Quotes.Villainous Breakdown Film Live Action
I previously removed the Punctuated! For! Emphasis! link as a Chained Sinkhole, but it was added back. Permission to re-remove?
Also, despite prior cleanups agreeing to add commented out notes to top of Villainous Breakdown quotes pages not to add sinkholes, they're still a magnet for and regularly attracting such. So is they're anything more that can be done?
openPotential popcorning creator pages
Today, I stumbled upon Gerry Tesch and Marina Terkulova. These are the parents of Gloria Tesch, who is the author the terrible vanity-published Maradonia Saga. All three creator pages were made by Pony Boy and lack tropes or sections listing what they've worked on. Gloria is fine as a creator page as long as someone makes a section listing her works, but I'm not so convinced for her parents.
My problem is twofold. For one, in addition to the pages being very barebones and self-isolated, I don't know if they need creator pages. Gerry at least directed Maradonia and the Shadow Empire, which is also a terrible vanity project as you might imagine, and it non-specifically says he worked on German writing, so maybe there's something there. Marina absolutely does not need a creator page though, since the only thing she's done is make the illustrations for her daughter's books. For two, they just seem to exist to document controversies surrounding these infamous books. They're written neutrally, but there's this sort of undercurrent around these pages existing at all.
Can I cutlist those two pages, or is there enough to salvage something?
Edited by MurlocAggroBopen How broad is I Let You Win?
I recently had a read through it as I was making a TLP draft, wanting to mae sure it is distinct. Based on the description and Playing with page, it tells me that it is about characters who orchestrate someone's win (as in it was planned) and that fact becomes known after. However, I found a pothole to here from Sore Loser's Adventure Time example, where Finn genuinely wants to win but sabotages himself to make Jake happy, and the latter never finds out. So does I Let You Win cover this scope, or is this a case of misuse?
Edited by Eggy0openWhat is a Ghost Wick ?
Self-explanatory, I saw several a lot of these on Cut List. What is that, and how can I find them ?
openDeleting references to cut work
Several weeks ago, Elmo 3000 deleted all examples and quotes linking to WebVideo.Mau Ler because "Red link". I'm aware the work page itself was cut because it was deemed non-tropeworthy, but I'm not sure if there's a policy for or against purging all references to such works wholesale.
(I admit to doing this myself for one fanfic cut by P5, but on lewdness grounds which don't apply here.)
openJust how much information should be mentioned in a character's description? Videogame
Felt like I have to ask this question hoping for those who are way more familiar with how this wiki works to give their thoughts as well. Wall of text warning though, as this does not involve only one video game. But a TL;DR is that some Gacha Games on this wiki have long character descriptions because they're also including gameplay information and other fluff, while there's a debate on whether one game should copy another similar game's way of handling descriptions. Who knows if the descriptions run the risk of going into Walkthrough Mode? Just how much "fluff" can really be added there?
For those who are not familiar with the above two games, the older and longer way of writing descriptions can still be seen on Characters.Genshin Impact Fischl, divided into paragraphs or parts:
- First, a short paragraph describing who they are, usually just in a concise manner, but longer ones talk about their lore.
- Second, a general paragraph describing their "core" gameplay mechanics; what their general gameplay is, what their skill does, what their Limit Break does.
- Third, another gameplay-related paragraph talking about their "character progression systems", like how their skills or Limit Break are improved through in-game means. There are also bits of fluff added in this part.
- Fourth, one sentence stating where the character can be obtained, as the game is a Gacha Game.
Note that the character descriptions for Star Rail used to have simple descriptions, yet there are tropers who massively expanded them to focus on their gameplay. The discussion on the descriptions started a month ago
... Several tropers (including myself) have already weighed in our thoughts on why trimming was necessary, though the discussion was mostly between tropers zero5889 and Ner0014re N, with the latter being the one who mostly did the trimming after getting plenty of responses from those who agree.
Personally, I agreed trimming specifically the "fluff" part of the third paragraph
, stating fluff doesn't really make sense depending on the character... as if other tropers were trying to link gameplay upgrades/passives and lore when they can be misinterpreted in another way, or are not exactly Gameplay and Story Integration at all. Welt's old character description in Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express used to have such kind of fluff that don't really make sense if you're into the lore of the character.
The newer and shorter way of writing descriptions can now be seen on Characters.Honkai Star Rail Astral Express. Generally, there's no longer a paragraph talking about "character progression systems".
For what it's worth though, games like Arknights and Honkai Impact 3rd were written with concise/very simple character descriptions for years now (and tropers who are/were very active on maintaining them kept it that way), and yet troper zero5889 insisted that Honkai Impact 3rd needs some structuring on character pages, and suggested
that "detailed descriptions" for gachas like Arknights are long overdue.
But should it be the case? Are detailed character descriptions for Gacha Games really necessary?
If it would seem like troper zero5889 is planning to restructure character pages or rewrite descriptions on Gacha Games, they did confirm
they are going to give the character pages of Honkai Impact 3rd a look in the future. zero5889 also went to the Arknights forum
to suggest a rearranging of Arknights character pages to group them by "subclass" instead of general class, but several tropers objected and say it would just be overcomplicating things.
Recently on the Discussion tab
for Star Rail, there's another troper who disagreed on the trimming effort of some ability descriptions in Star Rail (particularly the removal of the "character progression systems" paragraph), like a week or so after the actual trimming edits were being done... suggesting the character descriptions of Genshin and Star Rail should still have a similar way of writing.
The trimming effort went through because many tropers agreed with it (like a majority vote, or so), but there are still those few who disagree (likely unware that a month-long discussion already happened).
Edited by DanteVinopenThe alphabetisation of the tv series’ main page.
Hello, everyone. I happen to find this main page called Outland, a Australian tv show I’ve discovered not too long ago (also not to be confused with this page and this page, that both works share the same title). While it doesn’t seem important but the alphabets listed under the "Following examples include" from the tv show look rather messy, or perhaps there is no issue with it?
I thought it would be alright worth mentioning this seemingly obscure tv show known as the Outland, released in 2012. I definitely can fix the alphabetical order by myself somehow without a doubt (after all, I honestly did do some edits through this page before). So first long story short, is it okay to simply ignore it or proceed fixing the alphabetisations freely (though it might probably take me some time to finish however)?
openPinocchiogoria Page Videogame
So, I was working on the Pinocchiogoria page and for some reason, the index located down in the bottom of the page lists the Pinocchiogoria page as its own index, despite the fact that the page itself doesn't have an index within the page. How do I fix this problem?
openMaybe check in case of a possibly edit war...
Well, this is most likely something that people rarely notice due to being one on the page that isn't viewed as much due to the work being more vague to the non-guest visitors of this site compared to others, but unfortunately for the person below who did this, I do stumble into the page on occasions. But anyways;
Thrilling One Way did uncomment Color-Coded Characters without changing the description (it was commented out by Hello83433, who thought it was ZCE), while adding information to Four Temperament Enesemble and also uncommenting it. This applies to not one, but two pages; Characters page D4DJ Happy Around
and Characters page D4DJ Peaky P-Key
.
I have no idea either about how to do about how much description the trope Color-Coded Characters needs to be valid and usable in the page information though. It isn't a solid claim myself, but it exists because of the "uncommenting" rule after someone comments it out as "ZCE".
Edited by JustNormalMusicLoveropenInviting others to forum threads
Hi there,
I've searched, but I'm afraid I can't seem to find the answer.
How do I invite another troper to a thread? Am I correct in thinking that adding a ~ symbol, followed by their user-name, pings them an alert in P Ms?
I've received P Ms saying a troper "wants to draw my attention to this Image Pickin' post" (for example) but I'm not sure how to do that myself.
Thank you,
Lex.
openMisuse(?) / more Ohvist issues
Ohvist added this to YMMV.My Little Pony A New Generation
- Spiritual Successor: Far too many comparisons to note within the general storyline, internal lore, character archetypes, and setting taking place sometime after the events of Friendship is Magic that the movie itself feels very much like a Kid-friendly adaptation of Fallout: Equestria.
- Best exemplified HERE
.
- Best exemplified HERE
- This is edit warring as they added it back after I removed it as they're too different in tone and content despite some similarities (FE is a R-rated war fic, ANG is family friendly). Cleanup
said to cut when they added it under YMMV.My Little Pony Generation 5.
- The video they linked is their own channel which seems problematic.
This is in addition to their other issues I I brought up prior
.
open Embarrassing Name Inspiration
Should the Embarrassing Name tropes cover an intance where the name itself is not embarrassing, but the background for it is?
Like if a character is named John and there is nothing wrong about it, but then we find out his mother gave him that name becuase she gave birth in a bathroom, so she decided to name him John.
openFor Want of a Nail substitute
So For Want Of A Nail is apparently not a trope anymore (something I disagree with, but fine), and I've got a problem. Many of the alternatives offered don't really fit with some of the examples used for characters, most commonly when describing the differences between the main version of a character and their AU self. Should these differences be put in the Alternate Self trope or can anyone think of a different trope that could be used?
openConsent to re-add a little removed text excerpt under a different wick. Videogame
Before the dewicking of Kill Em All as a trope, the Foil entry on Biker's folder in Characters.Hotline Miami looked like this:
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Kill Em All and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
After the dewicking, on the beginning of January 2023, Robert TYL removed the bolded part, making it look like this (note that this also includes a grammar correction done by another troper months later):
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafyia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
The removal of the bolded part makes Biker's point of "can spare a whole lot of people" come out of nowhere an unrelated. As such, I'd like to restore the bolded part with Leave No Survivors, since it's still a trope and fits Jacket's description better than the original Kill Em All.
- Foil: To Jacket. Both of them are masked killers with psychotic tendencies, but whereas Jacket invokes Leave No Survivors and is motivated by revenge, Biker kills only because he finds it fun, yet can spare a whole lot of people. Furthermore, Biker openly talks and is rather forward, while Jacket is silent. Most importantly, however, Biker found out the truth about the phone calls and pulled a Screw This, I'm Out of Here! upon getting his answer, while Jacket falsely concluded that the calls came from the Russian Mafia and slaughters its leadership instead, further advancing 50 Blessings' goals. Jacket then lets himself get caught by the police without ever learning the truth, dying in custody thanks to a nuking brought about by an organization whose goals he advanced. By contrast, Biker may have survived the nuking while hiding in the desert, as he knew the implications of the truth.
Can I go ahead with this change, or does anyone have any objections?
Edited by Inky100openAm I allowed to move other Tropers' DethroningMoment entries for sorting/wick migration?
I recently moved GradeAUnderA from WebVideo/ to WebAnimation/
He has his own entry in DethroningMoment.Web Original
- Izzy 1: To be honest, GradeAUnderA's video "THE YOUTUBERS COMPLAINING ABOUT DRAMA RANT (Exposing Matthew Santoro)" rubbed me the wrong way, specifically the part where he insulted Markiplier. Now, before you make assumptions, I don't follow Markiplier or watch his stuff, but the fact that Grade was insulting him based on his appearance (having dyed red hair) and for calling himself "Markimoo" (which I heard is something his fans call him) rather than what he actually had to say was disappointing. And when he addressed this in his followup video saying that nobody is immune to criticism, I had 2 problems with that: 1. He was completely missing the point of why people were mad at him, for the most part, thinking that people were mad because Markiplier dyed his hair, initially pink for charity and later red out of respect for a dead friend, and saying he shouldn't be immune to criticism as a result, especially since Mark apparently caused more drama with his video. While I'm not sure if that's true, I think I can say that a lot of people, myself included, were more miffed about the way you attacked him for petty reasons, rather than that. 2. He makes a huge point about saying that everyone should be open to criticism, yet on Reddit, he tried to delete a thread criticizing him for getting "annoyed" by it
. Honestly, I was starting to like this guy's content, but these events turned me off from his videos.
- shonengirl: Hoo boy, his Pokémon video... It's hard to point out one moment in particular, but it's basically a series of "jokes" (I think) that have already been beaten up to death, revived, HM 01'd into tiny pieces, beat up again, horn drilled, and incinerated. And I seriously couldn't tell if it was all supposed to be a bunch of jokes or not due to many of the "jokes" (mainly "hurdy durr Pokeymanz is animal abuse!") being things said with complete seriousness before, and it comes off a lot like some cringy "scrub" ranting about something he knows nothing about, or at least has never played since gen I. The blatant Critical Research Failure all over the place was just painful to sit through, so much so I had to skip through tiny segments of it. This was especially jarring since he pulled up the gen I manual, something only hardcore fans usually do, and actually knew that Red is 11... But yet calls Red "Ash", something that no Pokemon fan over 12 would ever do, and he should be relieved that he wasn't swarmed by rabid Red fans by some miracle. If those were jokes, they weren't funny. It doesn't help that the description made me put my hopes up. The only things that were good or new were the bit about him actually getting Red and Blue's ages right, and the mocking of the deviation of game text from what's said in the manual. Everything else is just so cliche and overdone, and I expect more from him. Not to mention it feels like he's trying to jump on the hype train of second wave Pokemania because he can, and free cash.
Is it fine to move it to DethroningMoment.Web Animation without those tropers' permission?
Edited by AudioSpeaks2openWhy is the Adult Hater trope under the Jerk index?
I mean I noticed that most Adult Hater characters listed under that trope hate adults for sympathetic reasons. I mean sometimes Adults Are Useless and fail to protect children from harm.
As an adult myself, I noticed that a lot of adults aren’t even good people (& I find other adults insufferable and toxic) so IDK why that trope is under the Jerk Index.
EDIT: I only came on here because I didn’t want to remove the trope from the index without a discussion.
Edited by MsCC22

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