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openLooking for Trope Name
2 tropes:
1) What is it called when a character is willing to fight like hell for their loved ones, but won't fight for themselves.
2)What is it called when a character has no self preservation instinct (due to either being immortal or otherwise magically allowed to come back to life) even when others in their same situation find this an absolutely insane stance?
openBig Bad Abuse
So I've found some trope abuse on King Goobot's entry on the The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron characters page.
- Big Bad: The biggest one of the series. He is the main antagonist in the movie and two hour long episodes. Not to mention the main antagonist in the series' pilot and most recurring villain besides Calamitous.
King Goobot is only the Big Bad of the movie Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius. In the series itself, he only appears in two episodes and doesn't quite match the influence and impact compared to Professor Calamitous (who is the Big Bad of the series). He has the same amount of appearances as most villains in the series and being the main antagonist of two episodes isn't enough to be a Big Bad of a series. Also, the series' pilot is the movie so that info bit is redundant and repetitive.
So I motioned that Big Bad entry be trimmed to his role as the main antagonist of the movie.
Edited by DukePresleyopenPage source says an image was selected when there's none
The page source for Awesome.Devil May Cry has the following commented-out note on top:
%% Image selected per Image Pickin' thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1640963102083542200 %% Please see thread to discuss a new image. %%
I wonder why that says an image was "selected"... because when you look at the link
it provided, the image was actually pulled out by the Image Pickin' thread.
Now I don't know if either 1) the note should simply say the image was "removed", or if 2) there was indeed a replacement image approved somewhere by Image Pickin' but the reference link pasted in the page was the wrong one. I think the first option would be the easiest fix, but I don't know if I'm allowed to edit that note myself, or wait for a mod to do it instead because AFAIK, Image Pickin' notes on pages are added by mods.
openYMMV trope misuse question? Film
Recently someone added the Catharsis Factor regarding the 1990 American biographical crime film GoodFellas as seen here (click here)
, I'll cover it with spoilers just in case if anyone does not want to know the plot yet?
- Catharsis Factor: After a long time of bullying, sadism, murder and many other crimes, Tommy is unceremoniously executed during the trap that he believed to be his making ceremony.
I believe this is a misuse because Tommy was unexpectedly gets whacked from behind by an individual and he seems helpless to do anything to save himself. While I know and aware for sure that Tommy DeVito is a terrible (for the lack of a better term) villain himself and it seems like a textbook example of Tommy's well-deserved comeuppance but for some reason it doesn't feel very gratifying. I admit to not have much good reasons to defend Tommy or to protest against the YMMV trope in someway/or form but it somehow just does not felt right at all and I think this is probably an example of the Catharsis Factor has gone too far. In short, it just seems wrong to add Catharsis Factor on Tommy DeVito.
Side note: This is my personal opinion and I fully acknowledge that YMMV is an opinionated based trope page. And most if not all Catharsis Factor makes sense when it comes to Audience Reactions to the villains in fictional stories but still I think this seems worthy of attention. Any thoughts, suggestions and opinions on this?
Edited by YatasumujiSenpaiopenTropes used to be valid before, but not anymore... What to do? Videogame
In live-service games or those that keep on receiving updates. What should be done when an example that used to be valid or was applied in an older version suddenly got removed in a newer version?
- Keep the example but rewrite the context to state that it used to be the case until Version X removed it?
- Delete the entire trope example?
- When the game was newly-released, there was some fandom discussion on how Childe's name is supposed to be pronounced, because a very specific clip
from Paimon's English VA had the name pronounced like "child" at first, then like "chill-day" next, in the same sentence. I originally added it somewhere
as a trope example, but another troper deleted it
saying it was fixed in a newer version.
- A troper deleted some examples
from YMMV.Genshin Impact without providing an edit reason, though what can be assumed here is that they deleted examples that no longer applied to the newer versions of the game. One of the deleted examples was a Cheese Strategy that was so prevalent or known back in the day, it was widely believed that "miHoYo had to patch it out". The point here is that the cheese strat existed in the past and players were trying to re-create it
before and after it was patched. There were even discussions wondering why the boss arena's ceiling suddenly changed, and fingers were either pointed to this cheese strat with Guoba, another cheese strat with Klee, or it was a semi-related bug with the hole itself.
- Cheese Strategy: The Cryo Regisvine could be safely cheesed by using Xiangling to drop Goubas from a cliff directly above the arena, allowing players to chip off its HP even before it wakes up. The devs eventually caught on to the trick and patched it out in Version 1.1.
Other Genshin tropers brought this up too years ago in the Discussion tab
I'd like to know if there's a guideline for these kinds of examples here on TV Tropes, because there are several other live service games I know of here with trope examples that are "outdated" or "no longer applies in the newer version".
"Blind Idiot" Translation and Good Bad Translation examples also have this dilemma sometimes, as it's common for live-service game devs to fix translation/localization errors when pointed out by players in the game's online platforms.
Edited by DanteVinopenFormatting error on the Deadpool and Wolverine page - anyone know how to fix this? Film
Recently some trivia linked under spoiler tags are listed as invoked on the Deadpool & Wolverine page, but with the way it's formatted it breaks some of the example's spoiler tags (specifically under All for Nothing, Ambiguous Situation, and Self-Deprecation) - I've tried fixing it through editing previews, but nothing short of removing the invoked tags seems to be working.
openOvershadowed/commenting out misuse?
This is currently commented out under OvershadowedByControversy.Web Original:
- YouTuber and blogger Lily Orchard (formerly known as Lily Peet) was once known most for media analysis reviewing children's animation. However, she picked up an extremely negative reputation from controversies ranging from her extremely vitriolic coverage of the shows she reviews, her highly toxic behavior on-and-off platform—including her falling out with joshscorcher and the break up of her engagement to artist Lizzy Orchard—and a fanfic she wrote that contained explicit sex between adults and children. None of this would compare to the 2023 accusations by Lily Orchard's sister Courtney, who accused Lily of having sexually abused her when they were children. Orchard would release a video in May 2024 where she directly denied the allegations
and detailed her abusive childhood, including countering the incest arguments by saying it was Courtney who initiated the abuse, and also addressed some surrounding controversies about herself. Either way, the allegations of pedophilia, incest, and sexual assault have come to define Lily Orchard's online reputation far more than her actual content or opinions.
It was deleted Dec. 4th per cleanup
citing "Lily Orcahrd ultimatly attracts too many contraversies for one to outshine the rest". A separate troper added it back but commented out
citing "Looking at the cleanup thread, Lily still counts, its just unclear what specific controversy overshadows here. Commenting out until a consensus is reached"
I believe it was deemed misuse of commenting out to sneak in entires that violate rules like this does as written. So should it be deleted as misused as written and or replace with a not saying not to add them without forum approve (which would be required here given the connection caused)? Or what?
openEdit war on Ranma Saotome Anime
Okay, I didn't want to ring the alarm prematurely, but lately the page Characters.Ranma One Half Ranma Saotome is veering into an edit war between Midnight Star Hunter and Valentine Meikin, with some peanut gallery comments by Wandering Browser. (Myself, I'm only doing the occasional grammar edit on the page.)
The latest edit by Midnight Star Hunter includes an absolute Wall of Text of an edit reason accompanying an absolutely bloated trope entry; please check it out. I think that everybody needs to cool down and discuss it out before any further addition or removal.
openAbout Franchise-wide example subpages and inconsistency
I've been really wanting to bring this up for years, but only had enough info to say it now.
If a trope or YMMV lists examples for the entire franchise and its installments... what's the best way to deal with examples that are already in the specific installments' pages? Take Memes subpages and the Memetic Mutation examples in this case, Should we...
- Duplicate the examples in both the specific installment's YMMV page and the series-wide subpage?
- Prioritize the series-wide subpage and simply leave a link towards it in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Put the examples only in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Make a Memes subpage for that specific installment and have it separated from the series-wide Memes subpage?
I've seen a lot of inconsistency when it comes to these pages, especially the Memes, Shout-Out, and Fan Nickname subpages. The problem is that one list may have entries not found in the other list, or that there may be redundant examples.
For context, this is what I observed in Memes subpages alone:
- Memes.Persona exists (which includes memes for specific games like Persona 3 and Persona 3 Reload), but YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload have their own lists of Memetic Mutation examples.
- Memes.Resident Evil groups the memes found in the original games and their remakes. There's already a list there for Resident Evil Village... and yet another Memes subpage, Memes.Resident Evil Village, exists for that game.
- Memes.Castlevania lists memes for the games, and yet there's a separate Memes page for the Castlevania (2017) Netflix adaptation, found in Memes.Castlevania 2017. Notice how Memes.Castlevania does not even link the adaptation's own Memes subpage.
- Memes.League Of Legends lists memes for the main LoL game and its E-sports scene, but at least the intro immediately tells the reader that there's a separate Memes.Arcane page for the Arcane show.
- Memes.Metal Gear also lists memes for the entire franchise, the YMMV.Metal Gear Rising Revengeance page links there, but there's a redirect
implying that Revengeance used to have its own Memes subpage. The edit history confirms it did
, and a discussion about it was posted via an ATT query
(a troper named GRD made that game-specific subpage, but discussion agreed to have troper Amonimus turn it into a redirect to the series-wide Metal Gear memes page).
- Memes.Devil May Cry has been the "centralized" page for all memes of the Devil May Cry franchise. The Page Info says it existed since November 2018 and several DMC tropers (including myself) have been adding and updating meme entries in just that page to maintain consistency. However, it seems like some tropers already, pre-emptively added a Memetic Mutation entry for Adi Shankar's upcoming Devil May Cry (2025) show in its YMMV.Devil May Cry 2025 page. Shouldn't it be moved to Memes.Devil May Cry instead?
There may be plenty more questions that I'd still like to ask (such as "When's the right time for a specific installment's examples to be separated from the franchise-wide subpage?"), but at this point, it's disappointing to see how TV Tropes is very inconsistent when it comes to listing Memes and handling franchise-wide subpages, especially when you now have installment(s) with three pages for its Memetic Mutation examples... (Looking at you Memes.Persona, YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload).
openDouble-checking a potential sinkhole
Is it acceptable to pothole to Running Gag when something gets repeated on TV Tropes for humor? I checked the In-Universe Examples Only page and Running Gag isn't there, but I still want to double-check that this isn't one of those "annoying misuse of a trope" types of sinkhole that could lead to Trope Decay or worse.
I ask most specifically about this portion of the Leeroy Jenkins subpage for Tabletop Games, where I just added a pothole after the same thing was said for the fifth time:
- The GURPS team seems to love Leeroying, inasmuch as there are so many Disadvantages that can produce it:
- Berserk: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you take 3 or more hits in one turn, or under "Other conditions of extreme stress (GM's option)" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Bloodlust: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to kill a "legitimate enemy" — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
- Impulsiveness: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time the rest of the party are taking too long discussing something — i.e. pretty much before any combat.
- On the Edge: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you have a chance to deliberately put yourself in mortal danger — i.e. pretty much before or during (and possibly after) any combat.
- Overconfidence: You must roll to avoid Leeroying any time you feel yourself a match, or more than a match, for your opponent — i.e. pretty much in any combat.
openPreventing an Edit War Western Animation
In What If...? S3E3 "What If... The Red Guardian Stopped the Winter Soldier?":
- I added an trope
- palm529sw removed it
thinking it doesn’t apply to characters who also died in the source material.
I know this trope can be applied if a character dies sooner than in the source material as explained in the page itself. Can I get consensus to reapply it?
Edited by MaxyGregoryyyyopenShipping misuse?
This was recently moved from Fanfic.Harry Potter And The Veil Of Mystery to it's YMMV page:
- Shipping: Fairly bog-standard, but there's a few surprises. Harry Potter dates Ginny Weasley, Ron Weasley dates Pansy Parkinson, and Hermione Granger dates Neville Longbottom. It's mostly kept in the background, but the romantic trials and tribulations of the teenagers do occasionally provide fodder for the Moral Dilemma issues.
Shipping is YMMV, but I believe it is misused here as about fan reactions to the source work, so fanworks deliberately paring them are not examples themselves. So cut as not YMMV as about the work paring them not audiences?
On the subject, what about works where possible romance and love triangles are intentional? Does Shipping as an item not apply there as not meaningful/too common if intentional? Or is the only part there the ship names or the popularity.
My question is what is the line between Shipping and deliberately teased ships? (Unintentional ships might be Shipping Goggles which disallow examples, so I wonder if Shipping itself which is even broader is too broad?)
open"Semi-avoidance" on CrossDressingVoices
On a few pages (ex. Trivia.Unicorn Overlord and Trivia.Ranma One Half), troper Chef Cranky Roger has a weird wonk towards "semi-avoided" examples of Cross-Dressing Voices. As in, writing entry about whether a non-binary/agender actor in more masculine/feminine leaning.
As an example:
- Cross-Dressing Voices:
- In a semi-avoidance, Akane Tendō's English voice actress, Valeria Rodriguez, is genderfluid, using any pronouns, including her "assigned female at birth" pronouns of she/her.
- Another semi-avoidance is Azusa Shiratori's dub VA, Kayli Mills, who identfies herself as she/they feminine non-binary.
Aside from the fact that trivia tropes can't be played with and the grammar just kinda sucks, this hyperfixation on the actors AGAB kinda rubs me the wrong way.
What should we do about it?
openWhatMeasureIsAnIndex
I brought this up at Is This an Example, but got no reply so I am bringing the discussion here.
What Measure Is an Index? is about Narrative Disregard, but with most tropes listed the disregard comes from the characters which the story portrays negatively.
- What Measure Is an Alternate Reality? (Expendable Alternate Universe)
- What Measure Is Another Race? (Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide") Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide" involves in-universe covering up of Genocide, rarely if ever does the story itself disregard the genocide.
- What Measure Is Another Realm? (Up the Real Rabbit Hole)
- What Measure Is a Traitor? (Category Traitor) Usually the character declaring other to be a Category Traitor is portrayed as a hateful bigot
- What Measure Is a Humanoid?
- What Measure Is a Mook?
- What Measure Is a Clone? (Expendable Clone)
- What Measure Is a Non-Animal? (That Poor Plant)
- What Measure Is a Non-Cute? (Bambi Effect)
- What Measure Is a Non-Human?
- What Measure Is a Non-Magic? (Wrong Context Magic) Wrong Context Magic is rarely potrayed as bad or expandable by the story itself.
- What Measure Is a Non-Original Item? (Ship of Theseus) Theseus' Ship Paradox is a discussion of whether an item is the original or not, but rarely is said item treated as expandable due to not being original.
- What Measure Is an Infidel? (With Us Or Against Us) With Us or Against Us is a mentality portrayed in a negative light, with said individuals rightfully defending themselves.
- What Measure Is a Dissenter? (The Complainer is Always Wrong)
- What Measure Is a Non-Super? (Muggle Power) Rarely does Muggle Power involve genuinely oppressed muggles treated as just jealous by the narrative. Stories themselves disregarding the lives and views of muggles is a potential trope in and of itself.
- What Measure Is a Non-Unique? (Uniqueness Value)
- What Measure is a Unique? (All of the Other Reindeer) All of the Other Reindeer is about society shunning the character being portrayed in a negative light, usually learning an aesop about said shunning.
openAsshole Victim misuse re-added, salvageable?
This was added to Mephiles under Characters.Sonic The Hedgehog Modern Era Antagonists 1 Mainline Games
- Asshole Victim: His fate in Shadow Generations is rather horrifying as he wants nothing more than to be free from the non-existence the Cosmic Retcon at the end of '06 did to him, but even Shadow, who has no recollection of him, knows that he's a murderous destroyer who cannot be let free in any capacity. In fact, he tried to completely wipe out all of time after reuniting with Iblis, so if anything being Ret-Gone is a fitting punishment for him.
This was previously deemed misuse
as he was trying to kill Shadow who only retaliated in self-defense, so not a Victim.
I realized there is an argument for Victim in that Black Doom set him up to be defeated in Generation as part of his Evil Plan, and Shadow didn't know about his atrocities/omnicidal ambitions that would 100% justify stopping him regardless of just being in his way, thoughts?
openPossibly disruptive user
On Characters.The Amazing Digital Circus Players, WELLBEBACK 7653 has made 3 edits changing the label of the hidden spoiler image in Kaufmo's folder to "NO WAY OUT", except that label only makes sense if you've already watched The Amazing Digital Circus, so the phrase by itself is a revealing spoiler. I'm asking if anyone can revert that change.
I'm aware that there's a previous ATT query
about this troper, so we may need to check their other edits.

On Characters.Celeste, there's a commented out note
added by scoooool with the following:
This states that Straight Gay only applies to gay men, which is also suggested by the laconic page.
A gay male with no stereotypical gay traits or mannerisms.
However, on the actual page itself, it makes it clear that Straight Gay applies to men and women, with the first paragraph being:
Originally treated as a subversion of the standard gay stereotypes, the Straight Gay is a homosexual male or female character who has no camp mannerisms, Butch Lesbian tendencies, or obviously "gay" affectations.
So which is it? Is Straight Gay supposed to be an Always Male trope or are women included as well?
It's worth noting that the addition of female characters/lesbians to the description was retroactively added
by Emie K 88 in 2023 with no edit reason.