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openSparkle Sparkle Sparkle Western Animation
From YMMV.Moana:
- Moana may be secretly a fan of The Nostalgia Critic (or Thomas And The Magic Railroad), as revealed by her scene in Tamatoa's cave when she's trying to get the crab's attention.note The Critic himself had to quell rumors that this was a direct reference by pointing out that Rob and Doug Walker have been fairly consistent credits in Disney movies since the pair were children.
Moana: "Sparkle, sparkle, sparkle..."
- Moana may be secretly a fan of The Nostalgia Critic (or Thomas And The Magic Railroad), as revealed by her scene in Tamatoa's cave when she's trying to get the crab's attention.note The Critic himself had to quell rumors that this was a direct reference by pointing out that Rob and Doug Walker have been fairly consistent credits in Disney movies since the pair were children.
Since Doug Walker a)didn't invent this phrase, and b)lobbied at least one hypocritical complaint against Moana, would anyone mind if I removed any reference to him from this entry, if not the whole thing?
openRose Quartz: An Example of Satanic Archetype or Satan Is Good? Western Animation
One thing that has been bugging me recently is how people say that Rose Quartz from Steven Universe is an example of a Satanic Archetype. In my honest opinion, she belongs firmly in the other category, because a Satanic Archetype is defined on this very wiki as "[a] truly evil character who appears to be a satanic figure for the setting, although they clearly aren't the Devil himself". But I ask you, why would someone include this example on the page when Rose only rebelled against Homeworld for the benefit of others and Lucifer rebelled against God out of selfishness? If anything, Rose should be an example of a Messianic Archetype or Satan Is Good, and yet, there is a clip in the video examples of the page featuring Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond. So what is Rose: a Satanic Archetype or Messianic Archetype/Satan Is Good?
Edited by Dragonking56open Kid's show about two twin girls and their robot dog Western Animation
Hello~ I wanted to know what was the bame of that show I've watched when I was 5 years old~ I remember it was from around 1990's or from the early 2000's... This show was Canadian if I remember and it was about two twin women with blonde hair and red dressses, they we're pretty glamorous and would travel all around the world (mostly with an air plane) if I remember right the had a male companion not sure if he was 20 years old or an old man, I don't remember right, but a big hint here is that those girls we're based of off real celebrities, two Canadian twins and the show itself started the intro with the real actresses getting inside an air plane , and then, they transformed into cartoon girls. I remember they had a Scootish dog type that was a robot and would do lots of things and also talk. The girls we're drawn quite realistic not like Johnny Test, Gravity Falls, Princess Star or any other modern western cartoons, this was more detailed and the animation was pretty good~... I even remember one episode where the girls got scared of how popular robot dogs became, that all the children had abandoned their pets to buy robot puppied and I remember the girls to be quite upset, and they dealed with a golden retriever (If I remember right) to find his home and convince the owner to get rid of the robot dog and take care of him instead~... I remember that this episode quite weirded me out since the girls themselves owned a robot dog~.. anyway, I hope you people do remember this show because I really want to know the name of it~♪
openSpeculative Troping Western Animation
Beatman 1 has been doing a lot of edits over the past for the Voltron: Legendary Defender page that speculate the intent of why things happen, or add negative weasel words to otherwise unremarkable information, in order to turn it more negative-sounding. For example bringing up that the lack of merchandise is likely due to the creators' personal hatred of the mecha genre, that certain lines of products were possibly poorly received, or canceled due to fan outrage (when poor sales or company mergers and layoffs are as likely of a cause and actually have received press coverage at the time; even so, that constitutes being too speculative to add in itself, and another user who made similar types of entries recently got suspended here and on other pages for blatantly violating the rules), despite no official indications otherwise.
I feel that, due to the notorious amounts of Epileptic Trees regarding this franchise and its creators' intent (of which I have plenty, but which I don't believe is my place to add them), that without some kind of official confirmation as to the motives of company actions, it crosses the boundary into speculative troping since it reads creator intent and malice into a page that is supposed to about recording audience reactions, and thus requires some measure of impartiality, despite the name.
I've had to do a lot of cleanup regarding his edits for negativity bias and it's getting very tiring as he rarely adds anything strictly informative enough to leave alone, and has already had a history of excess negativity towards the series to the point of thumps on the forums, and has been found to have engaged in unsolicited harassment of fans of the work on other social media.
I mentioned in the past about a tendency of his to use the page as a soapbox for his Single-Issue Wonk with the show, as well as bring it up in threads and pages for unrelated works, even bringing up arguments from people he's otherwise violently opposed to due to his vocal hatred of their taste for same-sex shipping in order to bash it, but I don't think it's safe for me to PM him knowing this now for fear of inviting said harassment onto myself.
Edited by AlleyOopopenjppiper Western Animation
jppiper added a non-capitalized, non-punctuated, speculative example to Steven Universe: The Movie, and then spent multiple more edits trying to Wiki Word Time Skip. After the example was rightfully removed, they posted on the discussion page
, still with the problems of their example, this time with an added self-censoring of the swear "fucking".
Page history
and Troper history
.
openCharacter Page Vandalism Western Animation
axwi07 made deletions to Voltron: Legendary Defender - Team Voltron, likely motivated by shipping. Notably removing any entries referring to Shiro and Keith's relationship as platonic or to the fact that Shiro ended up with someone else (I have my own various thoughts about those two relationships but regardless, what's official is what's official; canon doesn't care about quality or subtext and trope pages are not the place to share your personal criticisms). The most generous one I can give them is the decision to leave off Heterosexual Life-Partners given that Shiro is not heterosexual, but the trope itself points out that it doesn't care about such things.
I could easily revert it myself but I think a proper warning is worth having given the fact that we've had other shipping-based vandalism for this work in the recent past. Let them report to their fellow shipper brethren that this kind of behavior is not to be tolerated.
Edited by AlleyOopopenRevert request Western Animation
Requesting a revert for Mao Mao: Heroes of Pure Heart. Powe Respect outright removed a few commented out examples with no reason, and I can't add them back myself at the moment.
Edited by Crossover-EnthusiastopenFlim-Flam's Scrappy Status Western Animation
The Scooby-Doo character named Flim-Flam had a Scrappy status that was worse than the trope namer himself. Why did people hate him?
openFat Shaming? Western Animation
The Great Hydra has written four entries for the Amythst/Steven fusion all relvoling around fat tropes which wouldn't be a big deal if those entries weren't written so insulting. I deleted their first three entries only for thirty minutes later, they put another entry (a zero context one too might I add) without even noticing my edit reason for pulling the first three. I don't want to jump to conclusions but I do feel like they might be trolling at least this page. These are their entries.
- Fat Bastard: Their first act upon being born is to beat the living crap out of Jasper, who admittedly deserved it, but the amount of perverse glee they take in doing it cements them into this trope.
- Fat Idiot: The combined intelligence of Steven Universe and Amethyst stuffed into a body three times their width that could be mistaken for a giant milk dud. Need we say more?
- You Are Fat: As part of their self given The Reason You Suck speech in "Know Your Fusion".
- Fat Slob: Natch.
openEdit War on The Dragon Prince Western Animation
There is a potential edit war brewing on The Dragon Prince YMMV page.
Antidragon has added these two points: Strawman Has a Point:
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- Furthermore, said ballistas prove to be too inaccurate to hit the dragon; the town offered no threat to it whatsoever and nothing was preventing it from simply flying away. It's subsiqent attack seemed more a matter of spite than legitimate self defense, yet Soren still accepts the blame for the resulting damage.
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- When Soren provokes the Dragon in S2 E7 by firing a ballista at it, said ballista proves to be no threat to the beast and nothing was preventing it from flying away. When it subsequently sets the town on fire, the show (and even Soren himself) treat the resulting havoc as his own fault, even though said dragon was apparently acting out of spite rather than self defense.
They were removed by Mr. Death and then Antidragon added them back.
open Potential Bias in Avatar pages? Western Animation
Okay, so K 2 Misfit has made two edits on Avatar pages that I find somewhat questionable. The first is on the YMMV page, under Franchise Original Sin :
And the second is under Fandom-Specific Plot:
Both seem to be editorializing somewhat. Now, in regards to the former, that's probably going to happen at least a little on the YMMV pages, but I still think they ought to reflect some sort of consensus, whereas this mentions a lot of specific issues that seem to be the troper's person opinions framed as a generally accepted "this is the way it should have been". Still, this is the YMMV page, so maybe I should be more lenient when it comes to opinions, but at least some of it seems like a stretch.
As for the latter entry, it seems to be going in a YMMV direction on a page that is not that. Certainly, a mention of fics that wish to further explore queer issues in the verse is perfectly fine, even mentioning that many do not feel that it was explored as well as it could be, but I don't think the somewhat accusatory tone of the entry is necessary. I think this entry deserves to stay, but it ought to be rewritten somewhat.
Thoughts?
openA weird use of a ymmv trope on a film page Western Animation
So Idumean Patriot added this to
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheHunchbackOfNotreDame
Under Strawman Has a Point:
- While his beliefs are still bigoted and he remains a crusader/fanatic, the movie proves Frollo more or less right that at least those Gypsies who are associated with the Court of Miracles are dangerous criminals, and arguably even terrorists for attempting to murder the serving captain of the guard. Even if they had done nothing bad whatever before, that by itself actually serves to perfectly justify him arresting them, even under modern legal norms.
- Similarly, while his treatment of Esmeralda can in no way be justified, the fact remains that she is a criminal who resisted arrest and assaulted the arresting officers, with a degree of violence that would likely have killed or seriously maimed at least some of them without the meliorating effects of cartoon physics.note She also publicly reviled a Minister of the Crown (i.e., Frollo himself), which would count as a serious crime in real medieval France, though that bit looks more like a Felony Misdemeanor to a modern audience. If he had simply wanted her arrested and fairly tried, it would be difficult to fault him for that; it's his creepy personal vendetta that makes him the villain in that case.
I'm sorry but the way this is written comes off like he's trying to downplay how evil some of the stuff That Frollo does in the film is. They reak to me of bias here
openResistance episodes Western Animation
Hi. Not that long ago, I asked for several Star Wars Resistance recap pages to be cut as they appeared to be the wrong episode number (The Children from Tehar, Signal from Sector Six, Synara's Score, The Platform Classic). However, more recent information has come to light that the initial episode numbers were correct, and so I find myself in the awkward position of requesting that the pages be able to be recreated.
Here ([1]
, [2]
, [3]
, [4]
) are the relevant Wookieepedia articles of the episodes in question, with links to the recently released information.
open Educational Inaccuracies Western Animation
In King of the Hill, substitute teachers like Peggy are often shown grading papers and performing major duties as subs. Having been a sub in Texas myself, I can say that subbing involved more babysitting of classrooms of various ages rather than actual teaching. What trope would this fall under?
openHow to write a good self-demonstrating article? Western Animation
I was planning to write a Self-Demonstrating Article for the obscure character Lightning Bolt the Super Squirrel, who appeared in two episodes of Tom & Jerry Kids and two episodes of its Spin-Off Droopy, Master Detective.
The only problem is, I've no idea how to write a good one.
I'd appreciate it if anyone could help!
open Unknown Cartoon needs to be found Western Animation
Hello, there's a cartoon that I saw as a random GIF on a random GIF site, there was a site full of GI Fs and I found it randomly because I wanted to find something else (You know how the internet is...) But I found something interesting there though:
There was a cool GIF (Seems to be from a cartoon, I am not sure too.) With a little cute boy about 10 or 14 years old wearing a patch on his cheek, he was blonde- albino with big eyelashed ocean-blue eyes, also he seemed to sit with his elbow on the table very bored near a fried chicken, but he was too bored to eat it. It seemed to be a Russian GIF because it's title was in Russian, I copy pasted it on Google Search and there was also Google Translate saying that the respective text's meaning was ,, boy", lol. I knew already that he's a boy, so obvious but i wanted to know at least his name to search the cartoon, I actually wanted the title of the cartoon itself but it was nowhere to be seen. By the way, there's a hint, he looked like Ciel Phantomhive from Black Butler but blonde and a bit more realistic but still very similar, same expression, feminine face, same hairstyle, thin female-like eyebrows, cat lips, big eyes and he was also blinking and his eyelashes were ,, dancing". Also it seemed to be an older cartoon, does anyone know? i really liked the design, I hope it's plot isn't a shit like Black Butler's one.
openSome anvils needed to be dropped Western Animation
Are these examples on the YMMV.Jem page examples of Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped? The Jem pages in general have a lot of Weasel Words.
"**In Video Wars, Video explains that her career as a filmmaker is quite difficult, since she has to constantly work hard at maintaining her success. Despite everything, she doesn't give up on it and loves her work. This wasn't presented in an over-the-top, ridiculous sort of aesop, nor was it even the main message of the episode, but it acts as a nice way to tell kids that having careers and jobs are never easy, but if you love what you do and keep at it, it's all worth it. The show itself seems to be an example of that message; disregarding the animation, the staff obviously put a lot of effort into the characters and gave them distinct personalities, as well as working hard on the writing, music and fashion (seriously, though; how often do you see cartoon characters in different outfits? And if so, how many are so intricately designed?)
"**With the exception of Eric Raymond, Techrat, and Zipper, the writers made it a point that neither the Misfits or the Stingers were pure evil and had their soft sides (especially Stormer), and that there was a reason why they were like that. The Holograms weren't pure and had their flaws. This seems to say that people have multiple aspects to their personalities, and that even so-called perfect people have their hang-ups, and the worst offender might not be so bad given the chance. "
Edited by lalalei2001open Ghetto: Where does its use (as in Animation Age Ghetto, etc.) to refer to media stigmas originate? Western Animation
Apologies if this is in the wrong place; I'm not a regular user here, and the Trope Talk forum doesn't want to let me make a new topic in it for some reason. :( Stuck this question in Western Animation simply because the Animation Age Ghetto is the most widespread version of this trope to my knowledge.
So this has been a tricky one for me. I've been trying to search up the exact origin of when exactly "ghetto" used to refer specifically to media, entertainment, fiction etc. was first used.
The most well-known and oft-used definition of the word "ghetto" by your average person is, of course, to refer to an impoverished physical community consisting of members of the same minority group. It's often slung around these days as a snide derogatory slur toward black people and/or the poor, though the term originated in reference to a Jewish community within a city (the word did not gain overtones of "inferiority" or "low class" until WWII, if my information is correct).
Where in the world did this word make the jump from "poor minority neighborhood" to "media relegated to niche audiences because of a culturally ingrained perceived lack of maturity, value or mass appeal"?
I can see where someone might make the correlation, but I'm a little baffled as to when it started picking up. All of the sources I search for just point me back to TV Tropes, but only to the trope pages in their current form—I can't find a trope naming discussion for the life of me. There is the occasional conversation clarifying usage of tropes including "ghetto" in this site's archives, but nothing I can find on the origin of this usage of the term itself.
The earliest usage I can seem to find that uses "ghetto" in reference to any sort of media specifically is Kaz Hirai talking about the PSP in 2005 during a conference: "Some have said that the PSP is our answer to the (Nintendo) Game Boy. Well, here’s how we view the world: PSP will elevate portable entertainment out of the handheld gaming ghetto and Sony is the only company that can do it. We happily accept this challenge and, dare I say it, the baton has been passed."
Is this where the word "ghetto" as used to describe mediums and genres in the Ghetto Index got its start? Would it be accurate to say that Hirai coined this usage of the term, or was it established earlier? Or is Hirai's usage of the term irrelevant, and TV Tropes users either got the usage from elsewhere, or came up with this usage of the word "ghetto" on their own?
Help would be appreciated, thank you!
Edited by satchelk

I was in the process of making a trope page for the Herself The Elf cartoon, but am unsure what to call it. Wikipedia lists it as The Magic of Herself the Elf or The Special Magic of Herself the Elf, the latter being its onscreen name, and while checking out its wicks other tropers listed it as just Herself the Elf, which was also the name of the toyline. Any ideas? I was thinking of just going with Herself the Elf since that's the general name of the franchise but am unsure. Thanks!