Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
openBiting the Hand Humor split Western Animation
BitingTheHandHumor.Fox Animated Shows is split off from BitingTheHandHumor.Western Animation due to length. However, some of the shows listed, like Animaniacs and Futurama, underwent a Channel Hop and have examples pertaining to those other networks or streamers.
Would such examples be listed on the Fox page despite not being targeted towards Fox anymore, or would they be listed on the main Western Animation page? So far the Animaniacs examples have been split between the pages (I think I did that myself?) but going forward I want to double check to avoid duplication.
F1 the MS Office robo-assistant
openEntry removed without edit reason on Arthur recap page: okay to restore or not? Western Animation
On Arthur S1 E18 - "Arthur's Chicken Pox" / "Sick as a Dog", this entry was deleted without an edit reason
a while ago by the now perma-suspended
troper TV Lubber:
- Kick the Dog: D.W. almost literally does this when she tells Arthur "We can get a good dog now" when Pal gets sick. She may be only four years old, but that's a rather insensitive remark to make about someone's pet, especially under those circumstances.
The reason I'm asking if this is okay to add back is not only because adding it back without consensus would be an Edit War, but the entry is also negative towards D.W., a character I've been previously been suspended for writing bashy entries about, so I'm worried that re-adding it without consensus from other tropers may be seen as me relapsing in my D.W.-bashing ways and earn me a second suspension. You can see the scene for yourself in this video
starting at 0:05, so you can make an accurate judgement based on the context.
open Disney Animated Canon rename? Western Animation
I’m wondering if we should rename “Disney Animated Canon” to “Disney Animated Classics”, since that’s what it’s referred to in the page image itself (and the term “canon” doesn’t appear to be universally used; Wikipedia doesn’t use it).
openDo memes go on YMMV page if they existed before movie release? Western Animation
An entry on Pixar's Elemental was removed, with the edit reason being that the meme existed before the work was released.
But the majority of the memes on the YMMV page, such as the movie's predictability and a fan-animated video being mistaken for an actual movie leak, also existed before release?
Can I add this back?
EDIT: forgot to mention the entry and link the edit history page.
- "Excuse me! He said no pickles!"Explanation It's become a popular joke to have Ember say that Wade asked for no pickles on his burger, because their Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy dynamic would have prevented Wade to bring up the issue, himself.
openDCAU Superman's personality Western Animation
Thetropemaster101 has sent me a message
about most recent edits for the character page for the Superman from the DC Animated Universe, and honestly, I have no idea what's he trying to do here.
He is very obsessed with explaining how different DCAU Superman is to his comic book counterpart, but his edits feel gratuitous at best, downright irrelevant at worst. What do I mean with this?
Superman's characterization has been all over the place in the comics, particularly in his identity as Clark Kent, but Tropemaster seems to think that the DCAU presents radical changes to Superman's portrayal.
- He is considerably less dorky as Clark Kent compared to most versions. In the comic books from the Silver Age and the Christopher Reeve movies; yes, Clark was a dorky nerd. In the John Byrne reboot and Lois & Clark, Clark is a lot more assertive.
- As mentioned above in Adaptational Angst Upgrade, this Superman is shown to be more short-termed, fearful, insecure, and cynical compared to more versions in addition to retaining his idealism. Apart from the fact that redirecting to other parts of the page is a huge no-no, Superman has struggled with some pretty dark topics throughout his history, such as political corruption, depression, loss of loved ones, detachment from humanity, etc.
- Also, like most modern versions, he prefers to be identified as Clark first in order to keep himself sane and believes Superman is a way of helping people. Again, John Byrne did it first.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just being too harsh on Tropemaster but I don't want this page to look like it's talking down to readers by explaining in excruciating detail how DCAU Superman is different from the Superman from the modern comics.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopen Trim the fat. Western Animation
I want to add two characters to The Simpsons Nelson I’ve done but it comes across as bloated
Nelson is presented as someone who grew beyond his initial characterization of a Barbaric Bully by being provided some Hidden Depths. In many ways he comes across as a Distaff Counterpart to Lisa. However it is when analyze his relationship with Bart that his trope comes into play. Nelson is shown to be given numerous advantages with people going out of their way to help him. you are supposed to feel sorry for him when he suffers the consequences of his actions but he never really shows remorse or even acknowledges that he did anything wrong. all in all his life is used more as Jerk Justifications then a legitimate Freudian Excuse.
- As stated above he he took advantage of Marge letting him into her home by to bully Bart, and even after Bart found his father and reunited his family he refused to stop doing it. When they became friends in "The Haw-Hawed Couple" it is treated as a allegory for a toxic relationship with Nelson checking all of the boxes of an abuser, but despite this Bart is treated as a Fair-Weather Friend instead of a victim . this also ignored the fact that that they only became friends because Bart was the only one who came to his party (he was forced) after he stole everyone’s money.
- Better Off Ned finally deconstructs Homer’s habit of using Operation: Jealousy on his son. It shows just how cruel this to the child Homer uses, but still plays it completely straight with Bart who Nelson tried to Murder the Hypotenuse. The episode ends with Nelson having shoved Milhouse into a freezer despite Ned mentoring him. Finally, Nelson’s response to being punished for breaking Bart’s arm in Top Goon was to go Then Let Me Be Evil and join the mafia
All I have for principle skinner is a basic and I can’t figure out how to start it. First is his relationship with bart you are supposed to feel sorry for him because bart is his worst nightmare. However Springfield elementary is repeatedly shown to be the worst school in city. In fact whenever bart and lisa are taken out of the school or even their respective classes because they are actually being taught his grades rise and her’s lowers. Then there is the fact that because he’s a Dean Bitterman he’s always actively scheming for ways to make the school worse then it already by cutting its already abysmal budget. Finally his relationship with bart just comes across as creepy. Skinner never shows the same obsession with other kids that he does with bart. Stalking him when he thinks he's cutting school, putting a student on his payroll in Bart's gang as a mole and setting up stings to get Bart in trouble so he'll commit detention-worthy crimes.
This same thing applies with his relationship with Superintendent Chalmers who repeatedly belittles and yells at him. however as stated Skinner is incompetent at his job while skinner finally standing up to him in "Bart Stops to Smell the Roosevelts" is supposed to be a Catharsis Factor its undercut by Chalmers actually teaching bart.
After several seasons of watching Principal Skinner be belittled and yelled at by Superintendent Chalmers for not being able to contain Bart Simpson's rampages, it can be extremely gratifying to see Principal Skinner finally stand up to him for a change in, telling Chalmers that he should just teach Bart himself if he thinks it's such an easy job. Chalmers' shocked reaction and the teachers outright cheering for Skinner make it even better.
What really makes him this is Edna you are supposed to feel sorry for him because she doesn’t want to get back together with him. however in "Special Edna" he’s shown to be incredibly abusive. It’s insinuated that him constantly canceling dates with her to spend time with his mother is due to the belief that she can’t do better. he only started making an effort in their relationship after she was nominated for "Teacher of the Year" before outright sabotaging her. despite this she accepts his his marriage proposal. When he gets cold feet in But in "My Big Fat Geek Wedding" she breaks up with him seeing that his proposal was just another escalation of his abusive behavior. Afterwards he keeps pestering her to get back together and the first thing he did upon finding out that her and Ned were together was to brag that he had slept with her.
Finally you can’t even feel sorry for him because of how overbearing agnis is as he was the one who chose her over edna.
All in all skinner comes across as a Insufferable Imbecile then someone who the audience is supposed to sympathise with.
open Without Sin: All Star Edition Western Animation
Hi there, I'm the author of the fanfic Loud House Story "Without Sin: All Star Edition". A fan made an entry here on the site... and it was brought to my attention the story was cut.
Now, be that as it may for the entry being cut, after reading the thread involved, I saw a gross mischarterization of my story and wanted to set the record straight.
For one, the story is not an endorsement of Incest, or child sexual action. There are no explicit sex scenes within the story. There are no 'lemons', no detailed scenes of characters engaged in the act of sex with one another.
For two, the story does not condone what has transpired between Lincoln in the "Sinverse" and his sisters. The quotes that were used in the thread were all from 'Sin Lincoln"'s perspective. He is biased, that's the point. He doesn't want to see what transpired between himself and his sisters as 'wrong'.
For three, the 'sins' of his family have resulted in one of his own children being a victim within the story of grooming.
What has happened to Lemy, with his aunt 'Lily' is not presented as good and wholesome, but quite the opposite.
The point of this story is to take a good hard look at the 'sinkids' fandom in the Loud House, and present the realistic circumstances that would have to take place for them to exist...with a Lincoln from another world who was not involved in an incestuous relationship with his sisters becoming involved and how he reacts to it.
The story is not an endorsement of incest, child sexualploitation or anything akin to that. It is a condemnation of those things... while still presenting the children that resulted from the actions as 'innocent' of their parents's collective sins.
While titlation does exist within the story, there are no sex scenes and there will be no sex scenes within the story. I can understand if you think the story still does not 'belong' on tvtropes but I wanted to set the record straight exactly on what the story is NOT.
It is not an erotic incest pedophiliac story meant for wank material.
It is instead an exploration of the fandom of the Loud House that often has an incest filtered Kink, but in a realistic manner with the consequences of those actions.
Thank you.
openEdit warring/possible agenda by troper in "YMMV/ShaggyAndScoobyGetAClue" Western Animation
Troper Aldrine Joseph 25 added a Vindicated by History example to Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get A Clue!, which fell into the usual "new thing is bad, so this makes bad thing from before better" trapping, regarding Velma. I deleted it alongside a justifying edit in the Audience-Alienating Era entry, since I haven't seen many Scooby-Doo fans falling back onto this series when there's dozen of other far more beloved works in the franchise that people put over Velma, such as Zombie Island, Mystery Incorporated and What's New, Scooby-Doo?.
aldrinejoseph doubled down on adding back the justifying edit to Audience-Alienating Era, calling Velma a monstrosity. I know the series is bad, but that seems way too harsh and at this point the entries seems agenda-ish, since they keep mentioning Velma while saying nothing about the series itself.
Edited by Edgar81539openInappropriate entry re-added to YMMV/TheLoudHouse Western Animation
A week ago, Braz re-added the entry below to YMMV.The Loud House, which was previously added and then removed after being mentioned in this past query
(the reasoning was because it was considered too creepy and misuse of the YMMV item).
- Fanwork-Only Fans: It's becoming increasingly common for fans to engage themselves in the fanart community rather than the show itself. This is due to three reasons: one, the TLH fandom is generally a highly active community, with fan works galore that often go beyond what the show is constrained to, either darkly so or within the series' lightered premise. Two, the show built up a notorious reputation for its gargantuan amounts of Rule 34, mainly involving Brother–Sister Incest and lolicon. It's not uncommon for people to be introduced to the series via Loudcest, especially since there's a highly popular Fan Verse centered around it. Lastly, some people just consider the show to be too generic to invest in, and find the fan works to be far more interesting.
I'm calling for the entry to be deleted again, since it's exactly the same as the past version.
Edited by Inky100open A certain European animated short Western Animation
In the tropes Bungled Suicide and Happily Failed Suicide, there's a mention on the Western Animation folders that there's an 80's Eastern-European short about "a despondent man trying to kill himself, but when he's faced by robbers, he gives away all of his posession, clothes included, and ends up happy and appreciating life after being spared". I can't find anything about this short on the web, and a twitter account stated that this short is probably non-existant. Anybody knows what the short is called?
Edited by Numbuh1507openA Scene in Rugrats Go Wild That Never Actually Happened(?) Western Animation
So I was rechecking the page for Rugrats Go Wild! and noticed Little Master Points's entries regarding some stuff, particularily:
- Bowel-Breaking Bricks: When the coconuts fall out of the net during the rescue scene, as the first attempt at rescuing the bathysphere fails, it is symbolic of the adults messing themselves like Angelica does when they cut to the underwater scene.
- Bring My Brown Pants: A flying bird, Siri the Clouded Leopard, Angelica, and the giant squid either poop or release a cloud of ink (the squid) when frightened or defeated. This is her comeuppance, in the case of Angelica, for her mean-spirited song, in which she repeatedly told the babies not to make any smells.
And under the Continuity Nod entry...
- Angelica gets her comeuppance for her Island Princess song and all the mean things she said and did in the form of something very similar to what happened to Siri the Clouded Leopard right before Spike told her to examine her diet. Angelitiki ends up messing herself, which she told the babies not to do in her song, in the submarine around 65-70 minutes. She is the only character seen wearing entirely different clothes on the cruise and not interacting with the others.
This is also brought on so-on-and-so-forth by the same troper.
A reason I want to bring this up is because I recently rewatched the movie and while there are toilet jokes, I never saw Angelica messing herself. Did I miss something, or do I have a valid reason to see this as highly concerning?
Edited by RedBerryBlueCherryopen Edit War on Character page of Turning Red Western Animation
Troper Rom Watt added back the Hero Antagonist example for Turning Red for the character Ming despite the majority of Ming’s actions not really coming off as heroic and more of a detriment to Mei’s (the main character) personal growth. Ming was an obstacle and a Karen who inconvenienced others with her selfish actions (she assaulted a security guard that was just doing his job and even destroyed a dome and risking lives all because Mei wanted to attend a concert). This doesn’t sound like a Hero Antagonist at all. She was far from heroic and she had to realize that she was the villain at the end of the movie. I wanted to delete the example, but I want to avoid an Edit War.
Edited by MsCC22openRestoring a Deleted Entry Western Animation
When I found out a character in The Dragon Prince was inspired by C-3PO, I added an Expy entry to their folder which was deleted soon after by another troper.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.TheDragonPrinceXadia#edit33992672
I messaged them with a link to the interview
that states C-3PO was an influence but they haven't replied or reversed the edit themselves. What should be done? Do I just restore it myself, or should another, since I'm unsure if that might qualify as an edit war?
openLego Star Wars western animation article Western Animation
The fact that there was a whole section in the LEGO Star Wars page devoted to the mostly-unrelated cartoons just kept bugging me:
For a more concise list of entries, the LEGO Star Wars series consists of: [...]
- LEGO Star Wars The Padawan Menace (2011): A young orphan named Ian sneaks onto a Jedi younglings' field trip to the Senate building, but their chaperone Yoda senses a disturbance in the Force…
- LEGO Star Wars The Empire Strikes Out (2012)
- LEGO Star Wars: The Yoda Chronicles (2013-2014): An original series spanning the Prequel and Original Trilogies as our heroes seek to prevent the Sith from producing an army of Sith clones. Rebranded as LEGO Star Wars: The New Yoda Chronicles after the Disney buyout.
- LEGO Star Wars: Droid Tales (2015): A five-part miniseries comedically retelling the Original Trilogy, Prequel Trilogy, and an episode of Star Wars Rebels from the perspective of C-3PO, R2-D2, and Admiral Ackbar.
- LEGO Star Wars The Resistance Rises (2016): A series of shorts set shortly before The Force Awakens, centered on the movie's main cast.
- LEGO Star Wars: The Freemaker Adventures (2016-2017): A two-season show set between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, nearing the beginning of the latter. The series focuses on the Freemaker siblings, a family that runs a ship repair shop and finds themselves thrown into the war when their youngest brother Rowan discovers his Force-sensitivity and the ancient Kyber Saber.
- LEGO Star Wars: All-Stars (2018): An anthology series focusing on various Star Wars characters throughout the Skywalker Saga, including the previous and next generation of the Freemakers.
- The LEGO Star Wars Holiday Special (2020): A holiday special set after The Rise of Skywalker, focusing on Rey and BB-8's time-traveling adventures throughout the Skywalker Saga after discovering a powerful Force artifact on Life Day's Eve.
- LEGO Star Wars: Terrifying Tales (2021): A Halloween special set after The Rise of Skywalker, focusing on Poe and BB-8 traveling to the now-derelict Vader's Castle on Mustafar and being told terrifying tales by the Darth's former attendant Vanee.
- LEGO Star Wars: Summer Vacation (2022): A summer special set after The Rise of Skywalker.
And it got to a point where I cut all of the above out of that page entirely. Now the real question is, should we spin off that content into a separate index of sorts under WesternAnimation/LegoStarWars or not? Part of me thinks maybe we shouldn't make an index for these because they're already covered in other pages like LEGO, Star Wars Legends or Star Wars Expanded Universe, but I want to see what others think before I can make any decision for myself.
Edited by AngrokVaopenWall of Text entry Western Animation
The YMMV page for "The Ending of the End, Part 2" has this very long entry under Draco in Leather Pants:
- All three of the villains received this status in spades for their punishment at the end of the episode.
- Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow being turned to stone as punishments caused backlash by defenders, saying that they didn't deserve such a punishment due to being forced by Discord as Grogar to commit said actions, and they weren't being given a chance by the heroes to turn over a new leaf throughout the episode and the previous one. What is largely ignored is the fact that what the villains did to Equestria was what they've always wanted to do ever since they appeared in the show, they were mainly forced by Discord to work together as a team instead of individuals to make their plans succeed, and they have stated and shown more than once that they are not interested in friendship or reforming themselves like when Chrysalis turned down Starlight's offer of reformation at the end of To Where and Back Again. And on the subject of the villains' punishments, they not only tried to murder the Mane Six and the other heroes, but also destroy everything that made Equestria what it was which included dividing the three pony tribes against one and other, which as a result almost made everything that the Mane Six accomplished in the entire series be All for Nothing. And considering that they almost came close with succeeding at destroying Equestria and the heroes and even presumably even creating a forever bad memory that the population of Equestria won't be forgetting for a long time, imprisoning the villains in stone would be for the best to prevent a tragedy like that from happening again.
- Cozy Glow was hit with this the hardest out of the three villains. Defenders felt she did not deserve the same fate as Tirek and Chrysalis, due to simply being a child and saying she could have been given a lesser sentence to serve her time, and demonizing Celestia, Luna, and Discord for doing it to her. This is despite the fact that Cozy was well aware of what she was doing the entire time, and her actions were still as bad as Tirek and Chrysalis since her actions to drain the magic in Equestria and claim it as her own was kind of the same plan as Tirek's. She has even proudly called herself a villain and shows no remorse for any of her actions, and in fact actively enjoys it.
The first entry is overly long and keeps re-hashing the same points, and I'm not sure if it even fits, since it's mostly just saying that fans thought the punishment was harsh. The second entry is redundant with the first, only focusing more on Cozy Glow specifically. I've brought this up on the Wall of Text cleanup thread twice but been ignored both times.
Edited by Javertshark13openTropes involving a group of characters Western Animation
Encanto is a large cast movie, with 13 named members of Madrigal family itself plus a large handful of named villagers. One thing I've noticed in participating in the editing surrounding Encanto trope pages is the desire to take various 3, 4, or 5 person tropes and start filling out the ranks of those tropes with the members of the large cast.
What this seems to be doing is finding characters in the cast whose personality traits match up with the requirements of the trope even though the 3, 4, or 5 characters don't actually have any scenes where they function as a group, or team or ensemble.
For example, on the character page, Julieta and her 3 daughters (Luisa, Isabela and Mirabel) are listed as a Four-Girl Ensemble. It's a case where they are all members of the same family and each character does fulfill the basic personality requirements of the trope.
However, in terms of the story being told, they are never actually shown interacting as an ensemble. Mirabel has individual scenes with the other female members of her family but, aside from breakfast/dinner scenes, the four are never shown together "just hanging".
So my question is whether this trope is truly in play in this story?
Even the Four-Girl Ensemble example acknowledges that while they fit the personality types, they don't actually function as an ensemble in the story.
There are other tropes listed on the Encanto pages with a similar weakness. Matching personality traits? Yes. But, actually being a group, team, band or ensemble? Not so much.
To me it seems that both halves of the equation need to be "Yes" for the trope to be in play but I'd like some feedback on this.
openFinding Nemo and Overprotective Dad Western Animation
I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to ask. My doubt isn't about the entry itself or its usage, but the correctness of this entry in YMMV.Finding Nemo that I find rather excessive:
- "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny:
- Marlin is the Trope Codifier of the Overprotective Dad trope mostly found in Western Animation. This has resulted in many other overprotective dads, like Dracula, Samson and Manny being seen as rip-offs of him.
openNamespace move suggestion thread? Western Animation
Hello, I have another unrelated question. I couldn't find a thread regarding possible namespace move suggestions (because I have a few, related to the medium I tagged this query as). Perhaps I just looked straight over it, in that case I apologize.
EDIT: To clarify, I couldn't find one specifically for Western Animation, no matter where I looked... Could I start one myself, or is that considered a no-no? I don't wanna make any moves without consensus, and I only wanna start such a thread if other people agree with it.
Edited by LotteVopenSinkholes on Character Page Western Animation
M3S
keeps adding Sinkholes in Characters.The Owl House Amity Blight. (Granted, I've made at least a couple Sinkholes myself lol, in case that needs to be mentioned.)
I tried to prevent this via pointing out that we're not supposed to leave them
. I even later tried leaving a commented-out warning saying not to add those and recently I sent them a DM about this. However, they clearly didn't pay attention to it by the time of writing this; they left a couple more Chained Sinkholes
.

Can you guys add these new Tropes that I invented?
And that's all the tropes i want you to add so please mods add them thank you and ciao for now.
Edited by BlimperBrave