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openFanDisservice Misuse Live Action TV
I noticed on the Recap pages for Breaking Bad that Fan Disservice is listed any time we see Walt naked.
If I'm correct, Fan Disservice is for sexual situations deliberately played up to be disturbing or uncomfortable (like the show's infamous "Happy Birthday, Ted" scene, which ironically wasn't listed anywhere until I added it myself), not "character gets naked in this scene and they're unattractive". The examples don't list why the trope counts, it just says "Walt was naked in this scene." It even lists it for a serious moment where Walt undresses to get in the shower only to pass out on the floor while Skyler tries to talk to him.
Examples:
- "Pilot": Bryan Cranston makes the first of many appearances in his tighty whitey briefs, and it is not pleasant...
- "The Cat's In the Bag": In the opening scene, we see Walt's bottom as he walks naked to the bathroom after sex with Skyler.
- "Bit By a Dead Bee": Once again, Bryan Cranston shows some skin, this time going fully naked (albeit from the back).
- "I See You": Fanservice: Opening scene. For once, it’s Jesse that’s topless, not Walt.
- "Buried": Walt stripping in silence to take a shower, before collapsing on the bathroom floor.
- Walt's character page: Walt sometimes strips down to his tighty whities in order to cook (usually in the first season) or for other reasons, but neither for comedy nor to look pretty. I don't know about that, the scene with Walt naked in the supermarket was pretty funny...
The page for the episode "Peekaboo" lists the trope because of Spooge and his girlfriend (two ugly meth-heads) even though neither are seen naked or in an otherwise sexual situation.
I ran a wick check and couldn't find enough misuse otherwise to justify a TRS thread or a clean-up thread so that's why I'm presenting it here. Cut these examples?
Edited by supernintendo128openDoctor Who WMG - guessing for future episodes on episode-specific pages Live Action TV
How do we handle tropers adding WMG for future episodes/seasons of a show to an episode-specific WMG page?
I'm specifically looking at WMG.Doctor Who 2022 CEN The Power Of The Doctor, which accompanies the equivalent recap page. Now that episode has screened (at least in the UK), all of the existing WMG has been marked as Jossed, Confirmed, not addressed in this episode etc.
However, the final cliffhanger leads into the three 2023 specials, which are very likely to get their own recap pages. And we're now getting tropers adding new WMG about the plots of those specials and the possible payoff for the cliffhanger.
My initial thinking is that this isn't a problem in the short term ... but as soon as those new episodes go out, adding any Jossed/Confirmed response to those guesses would be a problem. It's a Spoilers Off page, but even if they were tagged, my understanding is that a WMG page for episode #22 of a series shouldn't include any spoilers for episode #23 onwards?
So should we leave the WMGs about the next batch of episodes there indefinitely, move them once a more appropriate WMG page is created, or immediately delete them from the page?
(I did delete one on this basis, explaining my thinking in the edit reason - but more are now being added and I'm second-guessing myself)
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1openEditing quibble - HOTD Live Action TV
Hello everyone, I hope this is the correct place to ask this?
For this page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/HouseOfTheDragon
(sorry I am not sure if there is a better way to link it) there has been some disagreement about it's contents.
I recently edited it to cut down some length; for example some of it went into too much paragraphs detail as opposed to a one paragraph summarization, I feel some personalised bits like "Fuck the Seven Strictures! And the Faith!" as a viewer's reaction don't fit and others are outright wrong in interpretation (while saying theirs confirms all other interpretations are wrong) as confirmed by a showrunner himself/ Word of God (Miguel Sapochnik). I didn't add anything, just removed some pieces.
I explained the reasons in the edit box as it would be improper to do such a shift without a given reason - however it has since been edited back with the following comments from the original editor;
"No-one who can't speak English properly is removing another's examples" / "Miguel Sapochnik told viewers their T Vs were at fault and not his lighting direction in 'The Long Night'. He has no right to give a carte blanche interpretation of a scene."
Can I ask what to do here? The first comment especially did feel hurtful and mean-spirited.
I would like to edit it since as I said I feel it goes off the format and it's confirmed some of it is incorrect, but I don't want to get into that with those sorts of comments to me or spark an editing scuffle which would be unfair for everyone.
openLucy Lane = Unintentionally Unsympathetic? Live Action TV
A few days ago, I described Lucy, younger sister of Lois Lane, as Unintentionally Unsympathetic in the YMMV page of Superman & Lois with the following argument:
"An argument can be made that Lucy was treated with a lot of sympathy for someone who willingly betrayed her own family and endangered her own universe in service of a cult leader. Over the course of season 2, Lucy attempts to destroy her sister's reputation, drugs her father to break Ally out of military custody and almost gets Superman (her own brother-in-law) killed but her family doesn't have any hard feelings against her. Further aggravating the issue is that she doesn't suffer any comeuppance for her actions. Sure, she feels guilty for almost getting Superman killed, but it comes off as Lucy repenting her actions when she herself suffers from them. Possibly justified due to the fact that Sam and Lois aren't angry at Lucy but rather at Ally for manipulating Lucy and at themselves for failing Lucy when she needed them most, but it's still notable."
I really don't want to come off as the guy trying to editorialize his opinions and I certainly don't hate Lucy as a character or as a concept. I just don't like what the show did with Lucy.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopenAdaptational tropes in Halo Live Action TV
Okay, we really need to do something about Adaptational Jerkass and Adaptational Villainy in the pages related to Halo (2022). Tropers have been adding these tropes to plot and character pages simply because the characters, especially the Master Chief himself, aren't as squeaky-clean and goody-two-shoes as their video game counterparts.
Yes, I get that the show is deliberately meant to be Darker and Edgier compared to the games, but those dark and edgy elements were always present in the games' background. They just didn't get enough screentime because the games focused less on the UNSC's unsavory actions and more on the heroic defense of humanity. Besides, despite his flaws, the UNSC's soldiers are still devoted to their duty and part of their character development is to form bonds with each other, just like the Chief and Cortana are doing throughout season 1.
But these are just one man's opinions. What do you think?
openFanservice Tropes/Halo (2022) Live Action TV
I'm sorry if this should maybe go in another place, but I wasn't sure so I figured I'd start here. I've bene going over the Series / Halo 2022 character pages (which are a bit of a mess, but I'm trying to focus on one issue), and I figured I'd start with something small that's been bugging me.
Namely, the Mr/Ms. Fanservice tropes are used no less than 4 times on the character page, with what I would call very thin justification.
First, there's John the Master Chief
- Mr. Fanservice: Scarring aside, Chief is a very ripped man underneath all that armor. The third episode has him buck naked, with several full views of his rear, in the SPARTAN barracks, even if the scene in question has him taking a suppression implant out of his back using a knife.
As pointed out, the scene where John is nude is so he can perform surgery on himself, it's not scored or lit or shot in "look at how sexy John is" sort of way. He is muscular, but then so are plenty of the characters on the show.
Next, Kai another SPARTAN
- Ms. Fanservice: Like with her CO, Kai is shown naked in the SPARTAN barracks for a brief moment to show off her well-toned physique—and that she took out her hormonal pellet.
Same thing, the purpose of the nudity is not to titillate, arouse, or otherwise turn on the audience.
Third, there's Vinsher Grath, played by Burn Gorman
- Mr. Fanservice: He gets a scene in a bathhouse in Episode 4 showcasing his toned physique.
This is another one that I don't think qualifies, because as the scene did actually seem to be using the nudity for a purpose, but not fanservice. It was more so A: Vinsher could give secret orders to an assassin and B: to show how decadent he is now that he rules the planet-he's smoking a cigar in the bath as well, to showcase that he's living the high life.
Last but not least
- Ms. Fanservice: Makee gets to undress in the second episode, showing off her very attractive figure in the process (aside from some scarring).
There is, to be fair about a two-second shot of Makee's backside from a wide angle, but once again the nudity is being used to tell a story-namely, Makee is changing out of the clothes she wears when working for the Covenant (which she has presumably worn for decades) and into more human clothes. The scene also cuts to John explaining how he felt emotions for the first time in basically forever, to highlight that John and Makee are similar (both are becoming more human, so to speak, which gets brought up in later episodes), and in this case Makee spends a lot of time staring at her body, as if re-examining her limbs to understand that she is a human (as someone basically raised by aliens, she doesn't think of herself much as a human), so the nudity is, again, being used to tell a story.
So, I think the problem I have is these examples are operating under the idea that "nudity, for any reason at all=fanservice". Am I making too much of this, or should these examples maybe be removed? Obviously, anybody can be turned on by anything, and all of these characters are played by actors who are conventionally attractive, but given how attractive everybody is in tv/film, I figured there were some thresholds for Mr./Ms. Fanservice to avoid overuse and gushing.
For what it's worth, every single example was added by one troper, chris4449.
Edited by ArthurEldopenMisaimed Complaint (Halo 2022)? Live Action TV
So there's a bit on Halo's YMMV page about They Changed It, Now It Sucks!, that is railing against the Fanservice in the show.
- A lot of fans have been complaining about the show's heavy emphasis on Fanservice from a franchise with very little of it aside from Cortana's game design, with the second through fourth episode featuring at least one nude scene, including from the Chief himself. It's even more ironic considering the reaction to Cortana's design for the show, which made her more modest.
The issue I have is none of the scenes in question are played for Fanservice at all. Even calling them nude scenes is only technically correct, as two of them are scenes of characters performing surgery on themselves, another is simply a quick shot of a character getting changed in and out of clothes, and then there's one of a character in a bath that is played less for "look at how sexy this man is" (though it is Burn Gorman) and more for "look how decadent this new ruler of a planet is" Seems more like a complaint about human nudity in general, which seems a bit odd. That's ignoring the weasel words of "A lot of fans".
I figure the example should either be cut or rewritten.
openMinor edit war and fact-checking issue Live Action TV
The live-action Halo series has released to mixed reviews from fans and critics, so naturally the YMMV page has some entries about the quality of the production. One entry under Special Effects Failure, though, stood out to me as potentially inaccurate, added by Commissar Cain:
- Also in the first episode, Kai shoots an Elite at point-blank range with a plasma pistol. In the following shot, she tosses down what is clearly an unpainted foam or plastic prop, complete with visible mold line.
Now I won't question that it is an example of special effects failure since the prop is visibly different between shots (there's a similar scene where they use a really bad 3D model of a rifle instead of actually throwing the relevant prop on the ground, so it's something of a trend). However looking at the scene in question I wasn't certain that the prop was actually unpainted, and removed that particular part of the entry with the following edit reason:
Now that said, I will correct myself slightly by noting that this is still an inconsistency since the pistol visibly does not get blood splashed on it in the scene before, and I'll admit that it's kind of hard to tell at all even in slow-motion whether it's properly painted or not. Regardless, Commissar Cain has now edit-warred on the matter by restoring the "unpainted" comment without an edit reason.
EDIT: Here's the scene in question
, if anyone wants to take a look and give their opinion. My stance (which I fully admit may just be me seeing things) is that it's supposed to be alien blood (maybe they planned for the gun to get splashed with CGI blood while filming but it changed in post-production?); you can see her index finger and fingertips seem to be stained the same color as the second prop. You can also see that in the first shot the pistol on her hip is covered in dirt while in the second it's clean, which could suggest that this was an issue of stitching together multiple takes, during one of which the prop was covered in dirt.
openCharacter sympathy in Superman and Lois Live Action TV
I deleted the Unintentionally Sympathetic entries, which included Jordan and Lois, from the YMMV page of Superman & Lois because I personally believe that they are meant to be sympathetic in their respective situations.
- Jordan is treated as unreasonable for being upset that his girlfriend Sarah kissed someone else, but he has the right to be angry that he was cheated on.
- Lois is seen to be in the wrong for not reporting that Lucy had a vision in line with what Ally preaches, treating it like she only shared the parts of the story that would let her go after Ally. Considering that Lucy supposedly had said vision after a drug overdose that nearly killed her it makes perfect sense that Lois didn't say anything about it. Reporting that her sister had a genuine vision of another version of herself, which near anyone would think would be a result of the drugs or the near death experience, would have seen Lois laughed out of the room by any editor. Not helping are the other stunts Lucy pulls in the scene, like blaming Lois for their mom leaving and revealing she's pulled this at Ally's behest, which makes it look less that she's bothered by Lois' supposedly hypocritical journalistic integrity and more that she's interested in getting back at her sister out of resentment over completely imagined slights.
Lois' example is pretty self-explanatory, but I think Jordan's needs to be elaborated on a bit further. I've watched the show and I don't see Jordan being that angry over Sarah's cheating. Yes, he was upset and mildly betrayed, but he was later consumed by guilt that Sarah was honest with him, while he can't tell her that he has superpowers. In fact, he wants to tell her because he admires her for her bravery and honesty (I'm paraphrasing), but Clark tells him not to because the secret isn't actually Jordan's to share. Jordan's brother and Natalie Irons even compare Jordan and Sarah's secrets, which strikes me as a false equivalance for the reason I've stated above. One secret is simply infidelity, while the other could put an entire family, maybe 2, in danger. This could be Informed Wrongness or something.
But still, I want to know what you guys think.
openAre these valid Creators Pet entries? Live Action TV
Found these on the YMMV subpage for Once Upon a Time
- Creator's Pet: The four mainstay "villain" characters on the show have all had this accusation thrown at them:
- The producers have openly stated that Regina is by far their favorite character, and their first question about literally any plot idea from the writing staff is "How can we make it about Regina?" This really started to be a problem around Season 3 when the show started treating Regina as a hero, which made her seem like an Easily Forgiven Karma Houdini to many fans. And it got even worse in Season 4 where she wanted to force the Author to write her a new happy ending. And with the 100th episode in Season 5 it's taken Up To Eleven: you would expect the 100th episode to star the main character (Emma), but nope, it's Regina. The finale does go some way into addressing fan concerns though, although Season 6 just broke the base on the matter all over again. Accusations worsened beyond what was thought possible after she is crowned "the Good Queen" over every realm in the series finale.
- Hook has been accused of this because, due to his position as Emma's official love interest, he has gained a more prominent role in the stories than Henry, Snow, or Charming. In Season 5, every main character, including several who have no motivation to do so, choose to risk traveling into the Underworld to bring him back to life, contradicting the previously established rule that the dead cannot be resurrected. Not helping matters is that the resolution to that plot ended with a literal Deus ex Machina that revives him which occurs in an episode that kills Robin permanently and in a way that prevents revival. This occurred after it looked like Hook would stay dead. Love him or hate him, there's little doubt that Hook has received much more preferential treatment from the writers than just about any of the other men in Emma's life, be they former lovers (Neal) or potential love interests (Graham and August).
- And of course, there's Rumplestiltskin / Mr. Gold, who some fans feel has long worn out his welcome by the fifth season and should be considered irredeemable at this point, but who not only continues to stay on the show and in important roles, but more often than not seems to get off scot-free for all of his evil deeds, if not flat-out rewarded with even MORE power. Whether or not he redeemed himself by the series finale is a major point of contention.
- Following her promotion to regular status, Zelena became viewed as this by fans too. While the fifth season gave Zelena her own redemption arc and did a decent job in fleshing her character out enough for more fans to feel sympathy for her, there were a number of fans who questioned if she was being forgiven too easily even by the standards of this show. She has at least expressed remorse for the things she did to Regina, but hasn't actually done the same for all the other people she wronged. Since Zelena's crimes include: manipulating Neal into trading his life to resurrect Rumple, abducting Snow and David's infant son as soon as he was born to use in a magical ritual, potentially killing him, and murdering Robin's lost love Marian in order to masquerade as her, then having sex with Robin (which can be considered rape by fraud) thus producing their daughter — it can be jarring for viewers to see how easily the group accepted Zelena's change without much fuss.
Thing is, I'm not too familiar with the fandom but the show's YMMV entry states that the characters in these entries are Base-Breaking Characters so could someone more familiar with the show's fandom check to see if these entries should be cut? Thanks
openDeleting YMMV examples for no reasons Live Action TV
Today, I noticed at least two old examples in YMMV page of Kevin Can F**k Himself without edit reason a few months ago. He Really Can Act example was deleted by Rm 74 and WTH, Casting Agency? example was deleted by meatwadf. Here's what the examples look like before deletion:
- He Really Can Act: Mary gives it her all in "Fixed". She displays her anger, sadness and grief when Patty calls out Allison for making her search into Tammy's belongings.
- WTH, Casting Agency?: Annie Murphy's comedic and dramatic talents have already been acclaimed, and her performance here was similarly praised. At the same time though, a few thought that Erin Hayes should've played Allison given her role as the the wife on Kevin Can Wait was the inspiration for this show, and the series would've felt more powerful if an actress screwed over by the sitcom stereotypes parodied here was the one rebelling against them.
- In an interview with Vulture (Vulture had been consistently advocating for her to get a part), Erinn Hayes herself says she loves the idea and script of Kevin Can F**k Himself but she understands that casting her as the main role would be iffy, as her character death on her previous series and its controversy could draw too much attention away from this show.
Should the examples need to be brought back or there's a reason for a deletion?
Edited by BubblepigopenPossible Fandom Agenda-Based Edits? Live Action TV
I've been monitoring the Supernatural page for a while now to cut down on agenda-based editing in wake of the show's controversial ending. I know enough about it from osmosis to understand what the different fandom camps are, which generally fall into three camps: Destiel fans (Dean/Castiel shippers, the largest group), Wincest fans (Sam/Dean shippers, second most common group), and Bibros (platonic Sam+Dean, the audience to whom the show has officially markets itself, though the show's LGBT Fanbase and Yaoi Fangirls have famously disputed this), and how acrimonious things are that keeping an eye on that page is necessary.
Destiel and Wincest fans notoriously do not get along, and I've had to clean up vandalism related to that war in the past. Bibros, though they officially prefer the brothers' relationship platonic, often take the side of Wincest fans against Destiel fans because they share more in common. Bibros are characterized as not liking non-Sam or Dean characters in general, but their dislike for Castiel is less because of Die for Our Ship and more because they consider him a Spotlight-Stealing Squad who took attention away from Sam and made the show more about an expanded cast. Many saw this as a good thing (Castiel was meant to appear in only a few episodes, but the very positive reception from audiences and critics led to him becoming an Ascended Extra and eventually a Breakout Character, especially since the earlier seasons developed a Broken Base where one half of fans believed that the show's exclusive focus on the brothers resulted in a great deal of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character or Plot), but Bibros see him as the harbinger of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.
Many of Lapistier's
edits on the Supernatural YMMV page and others are fine enough and stay nonpartisan, but other times it comes off as a Bibro Righting Great Wrongs or stealth complaining about fans who feel differently. I am not the only one who feels this way, am I?
openThe100 Moral Event Horizon Question Live Action TV
Copying this from the Moral Event Horizon cleanup thread to get more opinions on these entrys.
Found these entries on the Ymmv subpage for The 100. I’m putting this into a folder due to the length
- Moral Event Horizon:
- Clarke and Bellamy when they torture Lincoln which they did in order to find a cure for a poison that's killing Finn.
- Also Clarke killing that Grounder in Season 1 though justified by the fact she was trying to escape so that she can save Finn but it is the first time she straight up murders somebody as the first time she killed somebody it was a mercy kill and being emotionless when she gives him the "shh" gesture while he falls to the floor dying and later along with the others burning up 300 grounders to defend themselves.
- There is also when, along with Lexa, she doesn't inform everybody in the village that a missile is about to hit and of course when she irradiates Mount Weather by pulling a switch with Bellamy and kills everyone including the children and including the earlier mercy kill of Finn and the guilt of every thing she has done ends up leading to her decision to not return to Camp Jaha and live out into the woods.
- Finn caging up Grounder villagers and then slaughtering eighteen of them when they tried to escape. Subverted because it is implied that he was in a PTSD state when he started shooting and as noted he started shooting because one of them tried to escape but the second one was because he was attempting to attack Finn as a result of the first one's death and it causes mass panic that results in all them trying to escape or attack Finn and in his state he just kept shooting until Clarke arrives to snap him out of it and of course the reason he was on edge in the first place was because he was told that the village was holding Clarke captive by a grounder who wanted revenge on the village and to get Finn to stop torturing him. He ends up feeling guilty about this and it is part of the reason he turns himself into the Grounders who were ready to wipe out the Sky People because they wouldn't turn him in for what he did.
- Tsing was already straddling the line before, but she takes a flying leap over it when the President gets locked away. She stops playing nice and takes them one-by-one, killing them for bone marrow extraction.
- If Cage creating Reapers by injecting Grounders with a drug to make them murderous cannibals didn't push him over the line, then staging a coup so that he can forcibly remove the bone marrow from the teens definitely does.
- Tsing and Cage justify their actions as trying to find a cure for their people's illness and being on a deadline because of radiation leaks. But they are not really justified because they basically enslaved Grounders as Reapers. Killed their 100 captives brutally, just to speed up production of the cure. They had a method to cure the populace that would not kill the 100 but decided it would take too long. Deciding to kidnap more of them to literally butcher them for marrow for their own convenience. In fact another reason they where on a deadline was because their actions forced a Grounder/ 100 alliance and as noted by Kane, the Sky People would have volunteered if asked and they didn't ask just because of the possibility they would say no.
- Pike ordering (and helping carry out) the murder of 299 Trikru Grounders who were there to protect them in cold blood and in "Bitter Harvest", after being told that Lexa would not start a war over his massacre, he doesn't take the reprieve as the one-shot blessing he's been given, and moves right into deciding to take a Grounder village's land to use it for farm land. Then he sentences Kane to be executed because Kane attempted to kidnap him and turn him into the Grounders and he later executes Lincoln who stays behind after Kane and the others escape because Pike threatened to kill the other Grounders prisoners if one of them didn't surrender. Subverted when he later helps in the fight against A.L.I.E and his murder of the Grounders is partially justified by his bad experiences with the Ice Nation that made him distrustful of all Grounders and he believed that they were secretly planning to attack and as stated he sentenced Kane to be executed because he attempted to kidnap him and Lincoln was probably a show of force to show he means business though his killing of Lincoln is what leads to his death.
- Bellamy participating in the massacre of the 299 Trikru grounders sent to protect Arkadia and supporting Pike's anti grounder movement. It is eventually Inverted when he turns against Pike and eventually sees the errors in his choices even then his actions are some what justified by the fact that he wasn't in his right mind because of his grief over the deaths of many people and someone he cared about and his guilt for what he did with Clarke in Mount Weather when they killed the whole population and really not having too many positive experiences with the Grounders to begin with which includes the fact that they have killed several of his people and Lexa abandoning them at Mount Weather that lead to him and Clarke making that decision in the first place.
- Before this in Season 1, there is his attempt to kill Jaha and on the ground telling everyone they can do whatever they want and convincing them to take off their wristbands making the Ark think that they died from radiation and destroying Raven's radios which ends preventing them from stopping the killing of 300 people on the Ark to save life support and led to them shooting flares to try to contact the Ark and the flares end up destroying a village which ends up making the conflict with the grounders worse. Though these actions are justified by the fact he did these things for his sister Octavia to protect her from the Ark's harsh laws and protect himself from getting punished for what he did to Jaha. Also what he did to Jaha was part of a deal so he could get on the drop-ship with Octavia to either die with her so she won't die alone or to be their to protect her on the ground if it turned out to be survivable.
- Jaha not even hesitating to sacrifice one of his disciples to a hungry sea monster is viewed as such by Murphy and when you consider that awhile back he was willing to sacrifice himself so that his people could get to the earth and he also didn't enjoy enforcing the laws of the Ark and started going against them in the end.
- Then in Season 3 he becomes loyal to A.L.I.E and participates in torture and forcing and manipulating people into taking her chip and falling under her control but this is justified by the fact he is under her control too but he was the first one to take the chip and the one who found her in the first place and it is implied that he made some of the decisions on his own.
- A.L.I.E's was when she caused the nuclear strike that destroyed the Earth in the first place and in Season 3 when she mentally tortures Raven in submitting to her because before this she mostly got people to do what she wanted by talking to them through Jaha and getting them to voluntarily taking her chip, but after torturing Raven she generally just starts threatening and torturing people to get her way.
- Ontari was when she killed all the nightblood children in their sleep.
- Octavia in the Season 3 finale when she killed Pike because yes he did kill Lincoln but he did save her life and even then it was straight up cold blooded murder as he wasn't a threat anymore and Kane and the others probably could have still turned him over to the Grounders to make peace. Even then she just did it to make herself feel better and other people she has killed in the past have mostly been in self defense/defense of others and during war. It is also hinted that this may be a Start of Darkness for her in Season 4.
- Clarke in "Die All, Die Merrily," when she takes the bunker while the 12 clans are distracted by the conclave, moves Skaikru inside, and seals the door. In doing so, she leaves Octavia, Kane, Monty, Raven, Murphy, and a handful more of her own people to die. To top it all off, she had Bellamy drugged, abducted, and dragged inside the bunker without his knowledge before shutting it, because she wanted him to survive, despite knowing how he would react to Octavia being left behind.
- Octavia, in Season 5, for several reasons: first, she allows Cooper to experiment on Wonkru people to generate more mutated worms for biological warfare against Diyoza's criminal group in Eden. Then, as the strain of realizing she might never be truly free of the bunker wears on her, as well as the fact that fissures are forming within Wonkru threatening her command, in a last act of spite, and to regain control, she burns down the entire hydroponics section of the bunker even though Monty had proven it could be regenerated. Finally, the origin of the phrase "all of me for all of us" is shown in The Dark Year when she begins — albeit under great stress and after repeated attempts at verbal persuasion — to kill people to force the rest of Wonkru into cannibalism.
- Abby in Season 5 pushed Octavia into enforcing "full compliance", hinting that she needed to force Kane, in particular, to eat the "meat" that was being provided during the Dark Year. Her insistence on having Octavia shoulder that burden had lasting effects on her, pushing Octavia to become Blodreina over increasingly macabre death matches in the fighting pits.
- In Season 6, the leaders of Sanctum, Russell and Simone, jump well past the horizon when they take advantage of Clarke having been immobilized by one of the Children of Gabriel spies in order to implant a chip which completely overwrites her entire brain, in effect "killing" Clarke and replacing her with Josephine Lightbourne. It's especially hypocritical because even Russell objects to some of Josephine's ideas, primarly because she doesn't think consent needs to be obtained for her mad plans to breed more "royal bloods".
Considering that this show has Grey-and-Grey Morality and some of the entries here have fairly sympathetic reasons like being out of options, etc, should some of these entries be cut? Thanks.
Edited by spyland2open Odd deletions and edit reasons. Live Action TV
So the troper Pikachu 4 Prezident
Has made some deletions with some concerning edit reasons.
- Here.
They deleted a Values Resonance entry I think (I don't know where it was) with an edit reason that states this And as a final point, the whole "men in miniskirts" thing was stupid-looming back then and it still very much looks dumb now. I don't get why everyone feels the need to inject current year politics into their edits...
Theirs also this one.
- where tbf
the entry itself might be kinda a stretch. But his actual edit reason is strange.
There seems to be an agenda here....
Edited by miraculousopenDisabled in the Adaptation Entry Question Live Action TV
This is on the Disabled in the Adaptation page. Unmarked spoilers ahead!
- The Walking Dead:
- Two surviving (as of this edit) characters from the source material, Sophia Peletier and Carl Grimes, both die in the show by becoming walkers.
My assumption is that in the show, Sophia becomes a walker and Carl shoots himself in the head to prevent himself from reanimating. And even then, is this really an example since the two characters in the entry clearly don't demonstrate any disabilities while they're alive. Thanks.
openPossible Single Issue Wonk and unnecessary bashing on a recap page Live Action TV
On a recap page of a few episodes of Just Beyond, I have found two examples where the troper named Colleen seem to hate the same aseop about Be Yourself and True Beauty Is on the Inside. The third example is basically the op bashing Kim Kardashian for no reason. Here's the example (Bold part means I highlighted it):
In Just Beyond S 1 E 3 Which Witch
- An Aesop: Yet another story about how Being Yourself is more important than fitting in.
In Just Beyond S 1 E 5 Unfiltered
- An Aesop: Another story about how Beauty Is Bad and True Beauty Is on the Inside.
- I Just Want to Be Beautiful: Lily wants to be as glamorous and attractive to be boys as the popular girls in her school. When she gets the app that starts magically altering her face, she gets greedy and uses it more and more until her face looks like Kim Kardashian threw up on her.
openSay Yes To The Dress question Live Action TV
I found an entry for The Scrappy on the Say Yes to the Dress page that I must question.
The entry says Randy is very full of himself and makes inappropriate comments toward the brides. In the episodes that I've watched, none of this behavior occurs. He's flamboyant, sure, but he gets along wonderfully with the brides and whomever they've brought along with them. I also looked up reviews for the show and people seem to agree: Randy is a decent guy who really cares about helping others.
Since YMMV is a general opinion and not just one person's (in this case, mine), I'd like to know other's thoughts on this. Should the entry be removed, reworked, or kept?
Edited by HMSquaredopenBig Ultraman reshuffle Live Action TV
So… if any of you can remember, a couple of months ago I started the Ultra Series Characters initiative, a humongous reorganization of the Ultra Series character pages to bring them more in line with modern Verse-based structure, rather then the installment-based organization currently in use, I abandoned it a while back, but seeing Vengeful Bale’s Ultra pages (Characters Ultra Series Ultraman Belial and Tregear) renewed my interest in the project, and I intend to return to the project.
Now why did I do this you might ask? Well it’s simple, unlike his contemporaries, Ultraman has a massive Rogues Gallery, and because of his Legacy Character nature, they often reoccur between series, which means that every Ultraman character page has approximately a dozen "See Literally Any Ultraman Show" entries scattered across the Ultrapages, which leaves the Ultra Series a tad disorganized.
So, should I go through with this? I remember a similar Jurassic Park reorganization of mine being rejected because of how self-contained every film is, but can the same apply to Ultraman?
Edited by GeneralGiganopenFoils in the The Musketeers Live Action TV
Hi there. I thought that there was a few foils among the characters of the series The Musketeers but it seems to be a rather divisive topic so I wanted to get peoples opinions. Does any of the below seem like straight foils that should be posted or should they be included under other topics. Thanks
Aramis and Rochefort – Both of them are skilled soldiers, have ties to Spain and France and have feelings for Queen Anne. However, Aramis’ feelings are returned, he is aware of the difficulties of their situation, respects Anne as a person and repeatedly risks his life to protect Anne and her son, even leaving Paris for their safety and he is loyal to his friends, country and king and kills only when necessary. Rochefort however is more a Stalker with a Crush with no real interest in Anne’s wants or feelings, when she rejects him, he [[Attempted Rape: tries to force herself on her]] and almost kills her. He’s also supposed to be a spy for Spain but has no real loyalty to anyone but himself and is quick to use murder as a solution.
Athos and Aramis – both are well-liked and respected musketeers who are considered the best at a particular skill, are in love with a woman they shouldn’t be and have Dark And Troubled Pasts and presents. Aramis is outgoing, cheerful, loquacious and [[Sad Clown: hides his troubles behind a smile]]. Athos is introverted, quiet, moody, and [[Drowning My Sorrows: buries his demons with drink]]. They are also fiercely loyal and protective of each other and their friends.
King Louis is French-born and sovereign but doesn’t really think about the people of France and prefers to enjoy the perks of his role and leave the actual responsibilities to his advisors. And while he adores his son, he doesn’t try to actually teach him about ruling or being a king. Queen Anne by comparison is Spanish-born and is hated for it, deeply cares about the people and actively tries to help them when she can, even if it is limited until she becomes regent. She also loves her son but tries to instil lessons so he understands the responsibilities of being monarch. She’s also a Better Judge Of Character.
Treville and Richelieu are trusted advisors and father figures to the king and head up the two most important and influential regiments in Paris. Treville is honest, straight-forward and A Father to His Men, takes responsibility for his mistakes and is also close to Queen Anne. Richelieu is far more underhanded and sneaky, manipulates the king, is a Bad Boss who’ll sell out his employees and frame innocent people, have his mistress killed and tries to kill the queen.
Charon is one to Porthos. Both of them hate the Court of Miracles, want a new life away from it and have relationships with Flea. Charon however stayed to become king and sold out everyone for money not caring that thousands of people would die and tries to force Flea to join him. Porthos respected Flea’s decisions and desire for a life in the Court, went into the army and became a musketeer to earn money honestly and ends up helping save the Court.
Queen Anne and the Duchess of Savoy are both loving sisters married to rivals of their brothers for the sake of alliances. Queen Anne cares for her husband but doesn’t love him and while she communicates with her brother, she is politically loyal to her husband and country of marriage. The duchess loves her husband but acts as a spy for her brother and the country of her birth undermining both the duke and his advisors for France.

So...
Following on from this post
on the Character Page Cleanup Thread, and this earlier Creator Page Cleanup
discussion, there seems to be a grey area with regard to troping reality TV.
Administrivia.Real Life Troping clearly says:
So, looking at something like RuPaul's Drag Race -
I know an awful lot of effort's gone into some of the pages, and I don't want to make major changes without a consensus (which didn't really happen with the previous forum threads, hence this post) - the one comment on the last post seemed to agree that this crossed into NRLEP, though.
What are people's views?
Edited by Mrph1