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openInUniverse tag for YMMV items?
Question about putting YMMV tropes on main work pages when it's done In-Universe—is this no longer appropriate?
In Their Finest, there's a scene where a propaganda film that is supposed to be taken seriously is laughed at by the audience. It had the Narm trope listed with the In-Universe tag (copied below), which was recently removed with the edit reason "Misuse of an audience reaction on a main work page".
Since the reaction isn't of viewers at home, but of an audience in the film watching a badly-made Show Within a Show, calling it Narm seemed appropriate, but has the policy changed on that?
- Narm: In-Universe with the propaganda film shown at the start, a real movie made about women working in a bullet factory. The audience laughs at it, which is why Roger Swain decides they need a woman to write women.
openGunarmDyne and (Lack of) Crosswicking.
Back near the end of January, I sent Gunarm Dyne a Crosswicking notifier regarding the page VisualNovel.Since Memories Off The Starry Sky, which they had just created a couple of days previously. I got what seemed to be a positive response saying that they would work on it, so I let it go for a while. (Hey, everyone has different schedules.)
Just did a quick look over, and found that they did thereafter crosswick 8 of about 50 examples. (The page has 22 wicks, but most of these are Creator/ entries and various indexes linked by other tropers.)
They have since moved on to adding examples to Other work pages, such as Film.Hillbillys In A Haunted House, Characters.Ar Nosurge Ode To An Unborn Star and Characters.Ar Tonelico Qoga Knell Of Ar Ciel, also without crosswicking.
I'm not sure how to approach this, as it appears that they didn't read/understand, or just don't care about proper crosswicking. Thoughts?
Edited by underCoverSailsmanopenPossible edit war? Videogame
Back in August, I removed
a set of Narm examples from The Last of Us Part II after the cleanup thread
reached consensus (my edit reason explained this). In April, Yukianesa added two of the examples back.
The wording is pretty different, and the removed examples were originally added by two different users (EnigmaLobo added the Mel example,
and Connor2107
added the nickname one). This seems unintentional, and if I remember correctly, doesn't count as an edit war.
My question: if consensus is reached and then breached, is it acceptable to remove the offending examples unilaterally, or is that an edit war?
Edited by indigoJayopenUnjustified edit to remove my contribution
Warning: spoilers for the work in question, including a video link to a climactic scene. Discretion advised.
On The Witches (1990), NOYB decided to remove my edit under Narm which read:
- The movie has a bizarre out-of-character moment for Mr. Jenkins. During the dinner scene, he greets the Grand High Witch by saying "Good evening" with a smile which makes it clear that he's got butterflies in his stomach. While he was established earlier as having a crush on her, bear in mind that this is not only in the midst of the witches in various stages of mouse transformation, he's also just witnessed definitive proof of his son being a mouse, not to mention being right next to his traumatised wife who is clearly nearly catatonic on witnessing the very same thing. Given that, his reaction is weird.
with the reason:
"Mr Jenkins is clearly scared of the GHW when he says that."
I'm sorry, but hard YMMV here. And of course, the troper in question made the removal on the movie's YMMV page. That is to say, the foremost class of page where subjectivity is the name of the game. Let me argue my case, as if the paragraph I had wrote wasn't quite enough on it's own, with receipts. Jenkins clearly hits on the Grand High Witch in this earlier scene (there's a bit more to it in the full movie, where he elaborates on how he admires her supposed "RSPCA work" and associated "philanthropy"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLfb9Zx4ZRQ
Then, in this subsequent scene, check it out (timestamped to the relevant moment where my paragraph was chiefly concerned):
https://youtu.be/QsuIp03FENc?si=bnrp0WmmSRgE4v1y&t=53
I do not see fear in his expression at all. That's not a scared smile. I see a man who was excited by this exotic woman from his earlier introduction to her, and sorry to be crude, but in this latter scene, it's as if he's even hornier. And as I said, given the chaotic context of the scene, it's oddly out of character. The man is not cringing in fear (however his wife is), but instead his inappropriate lust kinda makes the audience cringe. I can't be the only one who sees that, right? And again, if NOYB disagreed and saw fear, they could have instead made an edit underneath to state something like "On the other hand, some viewers see Mr Jenkins as instead being afraid of the GHW in this moment" (such a counter-statement approach being true to the nature of YMMV pages), instead of deleting my example with no real justification.
So, I'm requesting some validation and support to restore the contribution I'd made, as it has some real weight.
Edited by FlashStepsopenBioWare creator's subpage split Videogame
Already pointed out in the other thread
, but I'm posting this for more opinions. This creator page has a lot of subpages for some reason and things like FranchiseOriginalSin.Bio Ware and Narm.Bioware exist here instead of doing that in its actual work pages.
This is highly discouraged by Administrivia.Creator Page Guidelines when the works have pages (and yeah, Bioware games all have pages) and it makes navigation unnecessarily difficult because you have to travel between creator and work pages. So, I want to put them back to the works. Thoughts?
openClarification on Injury tropes
So for tropes involving injuries (Eye Scream, An Arm and a Leg, etc) what kind of example is it if someone THREATENS to inflict said injury ("Say goodbye to your one good eye!") but is prevented from carrying it out? Is it straight, subverted, or implied?
openAvoiding an edit war. Opinions on if this is word cruft.
So on YMMV.The Amazing Spider Man 2 the following:
- Joe Mere added
the following to the Base-Breaking Character tree "All three of the movie's villains are quite divisive to say the least."
- I removed it for being word cruft
, though to my embarrassment I misspelled cruft.
- Joe Mere re-added
it but reworded to "All of the villains are incredibly divisive to say the least, up to the point where they tend to be one of the most criticized things about the film. Either you find them entertaining in spite of their flaws or poorly written and unintentionally goofy."
Now, I don't know if this is still word cruft or not with the rewording. I don't think it is an edit war as they might have believed that they managed to fix the problem by rewording this. So, should it be kept or removed?
Edited by BullmanopenNarm pages for creators?
I noticed that someone recently made a Narm page for Christopher Nolan's movies; not for any particular one of his franchises (though the Dark Knight Trilogy has its own separate page) but to encompass all his films... which it turns out to be only a few otherwise. I couldn't find another instance of a page where someone made a Narm page for an individual creator (except maybe Chick Tracts lol), does this seem allowed? To me, it doesn't seem right.
openPossible misuse of narm Live Action TV
The YMMV page of Superman & Lois has two entries of Narm, both from the pilot, which read:
- The dramatic intensity with which Clark confesses his origin story to Jon and Jordan can be so over-the-top in a "well, when you say it like that, this whole thing is actually pretty silly" kind of way. With the way it's played out, you'd almost expect for Clark to laugh and yell "just kidding!" instead of proving himself by lifting the truck.
- Nobody at the party noticing Jordan using his heat vision during the brawl, even though he's surrounded by dozens of people, some of whom are filming the brawl. Makes the emotional and shocking scene seem unintentionally comedic.
I have to ask, is this valid? Narm only applies for moments that are meant to be taken seriously but instead come off as hilarious, not moments that either fall flat or just don't have the intended effect.
openUnnecessary Japanese English wording in Fan made anime page Web Original
So Nyan~ Neko Sugar Girls has some random Japanese- English words because of the theme of the fan made anime which leads to bad grammar such as "a main character dies of a broken kokoro", "she transforms into a human naked" (From Shapeshifting Excludes Clothing example) and "By the torukku (?) load"(From Narm example). Even though it's a joke. I think that's unnecessary to put Japanese English words because we might not know what it means. So fixed it?
Edited by Bubblepigopen Troper sagar engaging in edit war Live Action TV
The troper @sagar added the below edit to The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power which I removed with an edit reason as it isn't meant to be a funny scene. In the edit reason I explained that if the audience finds this dramatic scene funny (which I've never seen any evidence of other than this particular troper) then it's actually an example of Narm. @sagar has since added it back with the edit reason 'Don't gatekeep another person's lived experience.'
which makes no sense whatsoever.
Do I have permission to change it back?
open Is the Narm cleanup thread getting a little overzealous?
So the Narm cleanup thread
has been around for a while, but I'm wondering if it's perhaps recently been taking things a little far. As far as I was hitherto aware, we usually take a fairly light touch on YMMV tropes, precisely because they're subjective, and only delete entries in cases of clear-cut trope misuse. The Narm thread seems to be applying a somewhat more aggressive approach, getting more into the weeds of whether an example is funny enough to qualify (which strikes me as more of a subjective matter than, say, whether it's mislabelled intentional comedy) and applying a particularly strict interpretation of our 'examples are not general' rule that I haven't seen applied to other audience reaction tropes, ruling out any repeated/recurring elements of unintentional comedy in an otherwise dramatic work.
Did I miss a shift in wiki policy towards this style of YMMV cleanup, or is this approach indeed going a bit far in cutting valid/informative entries?
openWas it necessary to spoiler tag the whole example?
I found 2 ymmv page examples that I find it bothersome because they spoiler tag the whole sentence that include non spoiler words and real life stuff. Here are the examples. From The Predator
- Narm: Autism, particularly the unrealistic Idiot Savant archetype, being considered "evolution's next step". It only avoids being offensive by being laughable, given how inaccurate by evolutionary science standards it is.
- Jerkass Woobie: Max retroactively becomes one following "Parents Day". It was hinted before that his parents were neglectful, but this episode confirms it. He spends most of the day being a brat and acting out of jealousy upon seeing all the other kids hanging out with their parents. Then, not only do his parents never show up, it's revealed they didn't even sign him up for a specific activity. They just didn't want him around. The reminder of this is enough to bring Max to tears.
openEdit war
DogOnRollerSkates
is edit-warring over a Narm entry on this
page. They added
the entry, Dylandbk
deleted
it saying the scene is intentionally funny and thus doesn't count as Narm, and Dog re-added
it saying it does.
This is the second time
Dog has been involved in an edit war, and they were suspended for it before.
openOf Narm and subpages
So I've discovered a fairly cut-and-dry example of Narm in a Tabletop Game that doesn't currently have a page on the wiki—specifically, an incident where a monster in a game was renamed by the designers because fans pointed out that the original name was unintentionally goofy. However, unlike a lot of other "broad-spectrum" YMMV tropes (like Ho Yay or Friendly Fandoms), Narm doesn't have either a Tabletop Games section or an "Other" section to collect a lot of the examples from smaller media.
The question is, what should I do if I want to add the example?
- Create an "Other examples" section on the main page that isn't in a subpage, and make a Tabletop Games folder there
- Create an "Other" subpage, and create a "Tabletop Games" folder there
- Create a "Tabletop Games" subpage and just use that
(Observation: Although Narm doesn't have a Tabletop Games section, Narm Charm does...)
openRe: Horrible/FanFilm
Same basic question as my earlier one about News. How is Fan Film different from Fan Fic (or Web Original (which is currently open BTW), for that matter)? Stealth examples of both could be lurking there.
Edited by Theatre_Maven_3695openThe page for the funny moments in the Funny/TheRoom should be changed to Narm Film
The Room is trying to be a drama so most of the humor is unintentional. I think changing it to Narm: The Room might be more better.
openEdit War over a Narm entry over YMMV.UraraMeirocho Anime
Little Buster added back an entry for Narm at YMMV.Urara Meirocho that he added in the first place with no reason after being removed by someguysomeguy.

There's a troper called Steam_Lord who added shoehorned Narm examples to YMMV.Bill Nye Saves The World, even though they were already cut. I consulted the narm cleanup thread
, and we decided we should ping them so we can resolve the issue. They don't have a Tropers page, though.
Edited by ccorb