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openEdit war on Hades' YMMV page. Videogame
On the YMMV page for Hades, troper _____________
added an example for Narm:
- Narm: The game is rated T, so it can't show anything too crazy, but what we hear in the blacked-out sex scenes that include Thanatos largely consists of what can be described as awkwardly serious chuckling, perhaps with a crack of Megaera's whip.
A few days later, Zaptech
removed this example, with the edit reason "Pretty sure that this is intentionally humorous.". Then, a few days after that, _____________ added it back, with the edit reason, "Well, I find it unintentionally humorous.".
I decided to bring this here because, besides it officially being an Edit War, this seems to being something that _____________ has done before (ie. add a YMMV example based more on his own opinions than the general opinion of the fans), as a comment on this post
for Demon's Souls brought up him doing this with an example for Anti-Climax Boss
openOnce again, a non-existant work wonk Videogame
I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
- “Paper Mario: The Origami Nazi”. Explanation King Olly’s plan for getting rid of all the Paper Toads involves him wishing via the 1,000 Crane Technique that all the Paper Toads go away forever since they share the same face and are poisoning his “perfect world” similar to Adolf Hitler.
And
- Pandering to the Base: While many critics and fans alike praise the game for being a Surprisingly Improved Sequel to its predecessors, a few such as the Villain Army and its Supreme Leader, accuse it of pandering to the people who hated Paper Bowser and his Koopa Troop by having King Olly be the main villain throughout the entire game, while Paper Bowser doesn’t steal back the spotlight from him, though it could just be shock over the eradication of the Paper Toads via the 1,000 Crane Technique. Hell, a review of the game
even said this while bashing the game for holding back Nintendo's development of Mario And Luigi Paper Jam 2, despite its 8.5 review rating.
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.
openMassive addition to Nostalgia Critic YMMV page
minikiss just added a massive
trope-slashed (pretty ridiculous because those items are so often misused for one another, we don't need to lump them under the same bullet) Critical Research Failure / Cowboy BeBop at His Computer entry to YMMV.The Nostalgia Critic. I believe the previous CRF / CBBAHC subpages for the show were previously cut to be examined more in-depth and I suspect not everything here counts as either trope - and even if it does, it should be made into subpages. Maybe on the discussion page, the short-term Nostalgia Critic cleanup, or the CRF thread, we should pick apart which examples are actually valid and split it into two entries for CRF and CBBAHC?
I'm mostly bringing it to ATT because I'm wondering if minikiss has an agenda against the series as they previously
edit-warred over a misused Seasonal Rot entry and also added a misused Hype Backlash entry.
EDIT: Actually I think this is the exact text of the originally-cut CowboyBeBopAtHisComputer.The Nostalgia Critic subpage that was cut for just complaining. So would this be considered edit-warring? This also makes me more suspicious that minikiss has an agenda against this show. (Checking their edits, it makes sense because they're also an entry pimp for a Youtuber who is notorious for hating Channel Awesome. Nothing wrong with that, but the edit-warring to add negativity for NC is when it gets concerning.)
EDIT 2: The troper also seems to have an issue with trope-slashing on other pages
(changing a Narm entry to Narm / Narm Charm).
opentherealryan on the Tales Narm page Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Narm.TalesSeries
So a user called therealryan has been deleting entries claiming they're "annoying" and repeatedly adding an entry to the Arise folder saying "From this game on, this has little to no Narm or Narm Charm." It's been deleted and re-added a lot and I get the feeling he's simply just contesting entries and opinions and the like.
openplz delet
I found Sword Art Online was put on the Cut List by therealryan, and their reason concerns me:
"PLEASE DELETE THIS. NOW. UNLESS YOU TELL ME ALL THIS SERIES’S FLAWS IN 1 SENTENCE LIKE I’M 5 BECAUSE I DON’T WATCH IT."
Was there ever any actual consensus to cut the page, or is this just someone acting stupid?
openOdd edit to YMMV/VsSonicExe
So on YMMV.Vs Sonic Exe, this used to be under Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
- One major compliment of the mod is that it takes one of the most infamously Narm-y creepypastas in existence and manages to make its titular antagonist genuinely intimidating through his disturbing Body Horror animations, his ominously deep voice, and an incredibly fast and frantic song that keeps the player on their toes. In other words; it made Sonic.exe legitimately scary. This is especially the case when it comes to EXE, who was designed with the express purpose of making Sonic.exe actually scary in 2020, and his showing in the mod succeeds with flying colors - especially when it comes to his nightmarish transformation sequence.
Real Escape 99 removed the part about EXE with the edit reason "Faker Isnt Any More Scary Than Xenophanes Or The Others What Are You Talking About"
Ignoring the fact that the edit reason Capitalizes Every Word, the write up wasn't saying that EXE was scarier than the others, it was using EXE as an example of how the mod succeeds at making Sonic.EXE scary.
Maybe I'm looking to much into it, but it feels like an odd reason to delete.
openEdit War Live Action TV
RiceRomp
added the following examples to Hollywood (2020):
- Narm: Every time that people act wowed by Camille's acting, just because she’s so clearly not that good. Of particular note is her screen test where she delivers her dialogue with a constipated look on her face, which comes across as worse than than Claire's intentionally botched tape, yet the characters In-Universe view it as a brilliant performance.
- The Scrappy: Camille is this for some since she’s supposed to be an amazing actress, but many have said her portrayer is the weakest link of the ensemble. The idea that someone as untalented as her could overcome the insane racial bias of the era and win an Oscar is laughable.
I removed them because the Narm Clean-Up thread had said
that the former was not an example, and The Scrappy Clean-Up thread said
that the latter requires a 6 month waiting period before examples can be added and the work was released in May of this year.
RiceRomp just today has added these to the page:
- Narm: Every time that people act like Camille's acting is incredible, given most viewers not only think it's nothing to write home about, but legitimately bad. Of particular note is how in universe she's apparently so good that she helps change the country into a more accepting place, and manages to win a lead actress Oscar in the 1940s, a feat that wouldn’t be done in real life until the early 2000s.
- The Scrappy: Camille is probably the least popular of the main characters, with the main reason being that she’s supposed to be an exceptional actress, but her performances come across as more laughable and dull than actually good.
openNarm for a Creator
There's a Dakari King Mykan page that's a narm page for a creator, including IRL stuff he says.
I don't think that's allowed. (The pages for his works are fairly bashy as well.)
Edited by lalalei2001openNightshade 96
Nightshade 96
has been on a mass page-spitting/index-creating spree as pointed out in this previous query
. Said troper was contacted and informed that they should probably get some kind of consensus before making such large page changes.
Despite this they appear to still be continuing with what they are doing, despite the numerous problems they are creating:
For example sometimes they're creating pages with so few examples, it can be hard to see why they were moved in the first place, such as MythologyGag.Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2 (as noted here
) which had only 7 examples when it was created (on a related note on the page they were moved from another troper
has undone the removal and restored the examples
— despite the sub-page still existing, and then more recently Nightshade has deleted the examples again).
They also aren't checking to make sure that all the examples from the main trope page are being moved to the sub-pages and not just the examples from the work pages. For example they created AdaptationExplanationExtrication.Harry Potter by taking examples
from Film.Harry Potter, later another troper
deleted all the Harry Potter examples
from Adaptational Explanation Extrication because there was now already a separate page. The problem was there were more examples on the main page, than there were on the newly created sub-page, so if I hadn't thought to go to the history page and copy the examples over they would probably been ignored and then lost.
Nightshade also doesn't appear to be correcting any errors that might be in the examples, e.g. several pages contain a lot of Example Indentation, Natter and Word Cruft which was carried over from when the examples were part of a work page, and in the case of Narm.Spiderman 3 Nightshade has actually added Example Indentation. Nightshade also isn't removing any see example or see X'snote which is discouraged on the wiki as trope example should be able to stand on their own and not require looking at a completely different trope for context, and doesn't make any more since it's referring to something on a page it's no longer a part of bits when they transferred to their own pages (such as the "See Freeze-Frame Bonus" on MythologyGag.Superman The Animated Series).
They also aren't checking to see whether the examples themselves are being used correctly before being moved. To give an illustration they created an Expy sub-page for The Heroes of Olympus, which then has to be cut as it was determined in the Expy Clean-Up Thread that none of the examples were being used correctly
. This is especially problematic considering several of the sub-pages they've created have been for tropes like Broken Base and Narm which are infamous for the amount of misuse they attract on this wiki (at least two Broken Base pages Nightshades created have even been contested by the clean-up thread as both movies they are for have yet to be released
.
openDragon Quest V Complaning and Misuse of Woolseyism Videogame
Woolseyism: Almost everything has been renamed in the English localization. If you don't dig the Punny Names and the Narm Charm of the localization, this game will be a Macekre for you. Especially if you've already played the much more faithful fan translation of the original SNES game.
I dont know if the Complaining is kosher or not but this is most definitely a misuse of Woolseyism.
openHelp on a YMMV page
The YMMV page for Watchmen here
is suffering from a lot of disagreeing Tropers. I don't watch the show, but it apparently tackles the subject of racism and specifically focuses on the Tulsa Race Riots. Unsurprisingly, tropers are split about how well the topics are handled. S
Daedalus Ex added a Narm entry for the quote "I'e got a nose for racism, and it smells like bleach." Titan Fire Flies added an entry for Don't Shoot the Message. Annoyed Owl added this entry:
- Misaimed Fandom: The entire reason this series was made as stated by the creator was to show how Racism is Bad. Que most of the positive reviews for this series having someone state how this series reminds them why they hate white people.
All of these were deleted by Hello 9876. Titan Fire Flies re-added them with the reason "If these are actual reactions people have had to the show, then they have every right to be on the YMMV page."
friscokid182 deleted the entry for Misaimed Fandom with the edit reason "In addition to being unnecessarily Flame Bait, this entry is a misapplication of Misaimed Fandom. 1) Misaimed Fandom is for instances when audiences enjoy a work (or character) for reasons that the creators didn't intend, not for instances where fans express their love of a work through problematic statements. 2) It's a bit of an overgeneralization to say that all (or even most) positive reviews of this show praise it for making white people look bad; it would be more accurate to say that they praise it for starkly showing the harsh realities of institutionalized racism and racial violence, which is largely perpetrated by white people." They also deleted the Don't Shoot the Message entry with the reason "Mild Artistic License doesn't make the show's anti-racist message less convincing. Even if the show's depiction of the Tulsa Race Riot slightly exaggerates what really happened, the real riot still killed hundreds of people and completely destroyed one of the largest African-American communities in the United States; it's been called the "the single worst incident of racial violence in American history" for a reason. The show captures the truth of what happened pretty well, even if the '''facts aren't identical."
Hello 9876 again deleted the Narm entry. Daedalus Ex re-added Misaimed Fandom with the reason "Perhaps saying "most" is inaccurate, but to simply delete this because of a one word discrepancy when it is still very much relevant is not the proper reaction." They also added an entry for Critical Dissonance, which Hello 9876 deleted because the ratings were caused by review bombings—Hello 9876 then deleted Misaimed Fandom again with the reason "No one is saying this."
So basically the entire page is caught up in one giant edit war and I'm wondering if mods can do anything about this?
Edited by iamconstantineopenLong Term Cleanup Thread for Narm - Discuss
Forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place, I'm kind of unclear where to go to suggest this.
In my opinion, Narm could use a dedicated cleanup thread, considering how often it's used for complaining. While some misuse is easy to catch (e.g. saying a joke is Narm when Narm by definition can't be a joke), a lot of examples fall into grey areas that seem like misuse but it's hard to tell. Like nitpicks that at first glance seem to be valid examples, but feel like stretches the more you think about them. Look at the page for, say, Venom (2018).
Thoughts?
Edited by MisterApes-a-lotopenSnarky Example Undermining Natter in the Transformers Tearjerker Page
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TearJerker/TheTransformers
- Poor Skyfire. Granted, G1's writing means there is quite a bit of Narm involved, but even so his story is heartwrenching. He was perfectly happy exploring the universe with his best friend... and then he crashed on Earth, spent the following nine million years frozen in the North Pole, was found purely by chance and had about five minutes of happiness at meeting his old friend Starscream again, then found out he was in the middle of a war, was immediately put to work by the Decepticons, realized he was working for the bad guys, got shot by his ex best friend when he refused to kill prisoners, and went down in a Heroic Sacrifice as soon as the good guys fixed him. All of this in a single episode. Poor guy needs a hug.
"We shall remember."
- ...and then he was resurrected 3 episodes later. *Cough*
- Though I suppose you could call that last bit a happy tearjerker?
- Hey, they had Skyf... uhhh... Jetfire toys to sell...
- "The Golden Lagoon". Beachcomber has found a beautiful, Edenic little glade full of wild animals, untouched by the hand of man—and it contains Electrum, a dangerous substance he knows the two sides will fight over if they find out about it. He spends the whole episode trying to prevent it, but the inevitable firefight happens, and both the glade and the Electrum are destroyed. The Autobots cheer because the Decepticons didn't get the stuff. The episode ends with Beachcomber sitting in the blackened crater of the glade, all the plants and animals dead, and mutters, "We won."
- As the standard "happy ending" music continues playing. Not even the soundtrack cared.
I think these tropers (Ha) think they are on Transformers wiki where this is kosher.
openEdit war
Rebochan is edit warring over a Narm entry on this
page. Their last addition has this edit reason:
"Dude, it's YMMV for a reason. Anyway, the bad pronunciation undercuts every scene where she says it because she literally can't pronounce the title of the game. And unlike most people who post these, I actually checked that this a thing - it's even referenced over at Barrel Wisdom where the video comes from."
I also question this
page talking about meta controversies, but I'm not sure.
Also want to add they've been reported twice
before
for rudeness and edit warring.
openAnime & Manga subsections Anime
I know the question of how to handle anime and manga as media has long caused questions, but now most of our example sections are titled "Anime and Manga". With a few odd exceptions, such as So Bad, It's Good.Anime. This may be because few mangas are listed on the page (bad animation adds a lot to the narm). By contrast, Horrible.Anime And Manga has "Anime" alone as a redirect; meaning SBIG links to Horrible but not the other way around.
Would it be alright if I were to move pages like SBIG to "Anime And Manga", making "Anime" and "Manga" into redirects?
openAdded back edit
I removed these from YMMV.It Takes Two 2021 but they were added back by separate tropers.
- CrossesTheLineTwice: The infamous part where Cutie the Elephant is murdered by the main protagonists is intended to be over-the-top BlackComedy in the spirit of a ''[[Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus Monty Python]]'' sketch, though some players still felt it was [[DudeNotFunny too disturbing]].
- Designated Hero: Cody and May end up as these when drag Cutie the Elephant to her death as she cries and begs for them to stop, slowly tearing off her leg and an ear when they get snagged on a door and a fallen screwdriver respectively. While they don't like doing the deed, they do dance in their daughter's tears thinking they will finally return them to normal. They don't.
- Intended Audience Reaction: Many people reacted negatively to the fact that Cody and May had no qualms with killing Cutie the Elephant because they think it'll return them to normal, citing it as the moment where they stopped sympathizing with Cody and May's plight. The point of that scene is to show Cody and May are terrible people who need to fix themselves (and their relationship) in order to be free of their curse. Cody and May previously had committed less-than-stellar deeds of leaving behind their beetle steed to die and breaking their promise to Moon Baboon that they'll protect Rose when they think it could benefit them. The scene with Cutie was just the tip of the iceberg.
The creators confirm Cody and May were not supposed to be sympathetic in that moment
and I believe one moment is not enough to count as Designated Hero regardless so cut. Intended Audience Reaction is not YMMV so should be cut as well.
Crosses the Line Twice was intended to be this but it seems many felt it failed so should it be cut? Dude, Not Funny! is In-Universe Examples Only so it should be cut regardless.
Permission to re-cut? Since it got added back by what seems like completely separate tropers is there anything else to do like adding commented out notes?
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenAdd back of misused examples Live Action TV
So on Stranger Things. A bunch of Narm entries were removed via the cleanup thread for being misuse and Not An Example with a link to the thread in the edit reason.
Legends Avatar 798 not only wholesale added them all back but also ignored that the edit reason said to come their if anyone wanted to re discuss a removed example
open(Minor) Edit War - Captain Marvel (2019) Narm Film
This entry keeps getting taken out, then put back in by ajbit26 (Let me know if I'm not supposed to name them):
- Brie Larson's complete lack of a facial expression in much of the trailer has led to some rather unflattering comparisons to Bella Swan.
It's a misuse of narm, I'm pretty sure. And it's just unnecessary complaining. Thoughts?
openRemove from Bad Writing
I intend to remove this from the Bad Writing Index:
- Dull Surprise: Have your characters emote during events that would make a real person do so. Otherwise, it can make scenes that are intended to be dramatic hard to take seriously.
This can be used intentionally to show someone as stoic or unemotional. Any unintentional examples are due to poor art or acting, not writing. All Literature examples are constructive uses arguing it's impossible for it to be bad due to writing alone.
There was discussion here
about cutting game design trope from the index as they're not writing per-say, but stalled out. Should I wait until we have a consensus on that or go ahead and cut Dull Surprise as there are many examples of it being used to desirable effect?

There is a particular example that has been added and removed repeatedly on Eternals. The film introduces a character called Sprite, who became the subject of mockery among some fans due to her green and white costume bringing to mind the logo of the eponymous soda. Timeline below:
What should be done here? I have checked the Narm cleanup thread enough times to know that this is misuse, but I can't do anything without starting a real Edit War.