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opentherealryan on the Tales Narm page Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Narm.TalesSeries
So a user called therealryan has been deleting entries claiming they're "annoying" and repeatedly adding an entry to the Arise folder saying "From this game on, this has little to no Narm or Narm Charm." It's been deleted and re-added a lot and I get the feeling he's simply just contesting entries and opinions and the like.
openMark Twain YMMV Literature
Please unlock the YMMV for Mark Twain. I intend to crosswick an approved CM entry for a work which does not exist on the wiki.
- Complete Monster (King Leopold's Soliloquy): King Leopold presents himself as a vicious hypocrite and sanctimonious tyrant who subjects the Free State of the Congo to horrific depravity. Having countless people killed and entire regions depopulated, Leopold demands high taxes and production rates from his supposed subjects, cutting off limbs or even castrating others who cannot meet them. Having people tortured and murdered in huge numbers, Leopold notes one of his mistakes was to have sixty innocents crucified and remarks fewer people would care if he'd them skinned. Uncaring of anything but lining his pockets, Leopold shows his only sympathy is to himself, indifferent to the half-million corpses he has left in his rush for money.
openIs Narm flame bait?
Is Narm supposed to be marked with a Flame Bait banner? The main page is not, but its subpages are.
openEdit war on YMMV/Caillou
Back in January, Boomerang 123 added examples for
Misaimed Fandom and Narm about PBS Kids' announcement that Caillou would be leaving the channel. I brought them up to the Complaining thread
and, as recommended there, removed them
.
Earlier this month, the same troper added both examples back
.
openCrossing must be intentional?
This was deleted from CrossesTheLineTwice.Western Animation:
- "Tanks for the Memories": Rainbow Dash's entire Wangst at her pet tortoise having to hibernate in the winter.
Cleanup
argued it wasn't supposed to be funny so is Narm instead. My questions:
- Does Crosses the Line Twice have to be intentional? (And is this misuse as it fails to explain how it crossed it a first time?)
- Was it supposed to be 100% serious? It was an allegory for death, but that it only last the winter suggestion they didn't want to go all in on the subject. The episode also had more comedy, including moments juxtaposed with Rainbow's Wangst, than "The Perfect Pear", which treated the subject of death 100% seriously.(Asked MLP cleanup.
)
openNarm & Bathos Film
I've got a problem figuring out which one to use. I know what those tropes are and what they do, so it's not the problem with definition - is to figure out which one "fits". But first, a bit of explaination.
Spoor, a movie I've just finished, has a Hysterical Woman as the main character and she has few very, very grating rants throughout the film. It's not only annoying in-universe, but it's just hard to watch her increasingly inane ranting, too. The character, due to such behaviour being her norm, is considered to be the "typical crazy grandma" in-universe... only that in the finale it is revealed it was for the most part (she's still insane) a play and deliberate mislead, both in- and out-of-universe: in reality, her rants were done as a cover-up for the fact she's a murderous lunatic and misdirect the people around her. Lucid enough to perform elaborate murders, yet still very insane Eco-Terrorist, living in her own imaginary world.
So with that covered, I'm thinking if the scenes with her ranting fall under Narm or Bathos. Prior to the reveal, it's just extremely narmalicious (and even after it's still eye-rolling), but with the reveal, the ranting was in fact deliberate and intentional, so the initial reaction it generates from audience can't fall under the definition of narm... but does it qualify under Bathos, given it's not exactly comedic?
I guess I'm explaining it poorly, but it's one of those situations that's not exactly about fitting pegs to the right holes.
openMore YMMV/BlackWidow2021 issues?
YMMV.Black Widow 2021, which had prior ATT
, has these entries I find suspect.
- Epileptic Trees: Given the controversy around Taskmaster barely resembling the comic character, people are already theorising how to give the character a 'do-over', specifically calling to how Mandarin and Deadpool (two characters who were similarly, controversially overhauled in their respective film debuts) got revamped years later. Ideas range from a Legacy Character approach, having "Antonia" get a sudden personality change, or even just straight-up introducing a comic accurate version with no relation to the version in this movie.
- Narm:
- Dreykov being unable to be harm by the Black Widows through pheromones of all things has been met with a lot of eye rolling from fans, with many raising the question on why Natasha can't simply shoot him from across the room.
Epileptic Trees I think is off the wall improbable speculation about the work itself, not future works, but this could be valid. Narm I'm very certain is misuses as this is more Fridge Logic than unintentionally funny. Thoughts?
openWas it necessary to spoiler tag the whole example?
I found 2 ymmv page examples that I find it bothersome because they spoiler tag the whole sentence that include non spoiler words and real life stuff. Here are the examples. From The Predator
- Narm: Autism, particularly the unrealistic Idiot Savant archetype, being considered "evolution's next step". It only avoids being offensive by being laughable, given how inaccurate by evolutionary science standards it is.
- Jerkass Woobie: Max retroactively becomes one following "Parents Day". It was hinted before that his parents were neglectful, but this episode confirms it. He spends most of the day being a brat and acting out of jealousy upon seeing all the other kids hanging out with their parents. Then, not only do his parents never show up, it's revealed they didn't even sign him up for a specific activity. They just didn't want him around. The reminder of this is enough to bring Max to tears.
openEdit War Film
Rice Romp
added the following to Narm.Spider Man Trilogy on March 17th:
I removed it as it was deemed not to be an example by the Narm clean-up thread
Today he added this to the page which, is more or less the same example but with slightly different wording:
openDethroning Entry Removal Web Original
The DethroningMoment.The Mysterious Mr Enter page had this entry removed a while ago:
- legorunnerkid: My moment comes in his Nick-O-Rama review for Monsters vs. Aliens. Ignoring his akward and goofy rants on the animation, he complains about President Hathaway acting like a fool. Afterwards, he plays a clip of Donald Trump. Ignoring any of my opinions on Trump, this felt really out of place in a review for a cartoon. Not made better considering a couple of videos back, he says he doesn't like it when entertainers become political (Extra Credits and Chadtronic) but yet he acts politically here. I came to watch your review because I wanted to see what you thought about the show, not what you think of the president. And if someone who is a Trump supporter watches it, I feel they may not be welcome to the channel because of that scene. I try to be really nice here and try to not complain like a madman, but I feel that most of Enter's fanbase doesn't care about politics or at the very least, are not going to watch a video for his political views. If he is going to be political, it should at least be what the entire video is about.
openComplaining?
The troper Aspie_Gamer has made a few contributions lately that seem to be very complain-y in nature:
- Two
edits
to YMMV.James Rolfe, the first about Rolfe's supposedly "piss poor time management", and the second a Narm entry that appears to be misused (complaining about James being emotional about a playground toy being moved).
- This now-removed entry
on Horrible.Video Games Other that states that the words diversity, equity and inclusion "have quickly become synonymous with token racism, sexism, and anything but being genuinely progressive in the eyes of many consumers over the past several years", before going on to complain about Take-Two "virtue signalling". This was brought up in the cleanup thread and a rewrite was given due to the politically-charged nature of the edit.
I can't seem to find anything else, and I'm not asking for him to be banned, but I am a bit worried.
openplz delet
I found Sword Art Online was put on the Cut List by therealryan, and their reason concerns me:
"PLEASE DELETE THIS. NOW. UNLESS YOU TELL ME ALL THIS SERIES’S FLAWS IN 1 SENTENCE LIKE I’M 5 BECAUSE I DON’T WATCH IT."
Was there ever any actual consensus to cut the page, or is this just someone acting stupid?
openNew image for Kid with the Golden Arm Film
So I've been doing alot of work for The Kid with the Golden Arm, and I noticed that the image is basically just that of Hai Tao fighting Golden Arm.
I propose replacing that page image, with this one shown on the left side of the page:
https://cityonfire.com/kid-with-the-golden-arm-1979/
I already have a PNG version of this ready to go; I just need to know where to go to find a consensus to be able to do this replacement.
Edited by Stardust5099openInky100 is still showing problems with Trolls
Inky 100, who has been brought up here three
times
before
, continues to show a constant issue of excessively Entry Pimping the Trolls franchise. Here's some various problematic pages:
- Analysis.Trolls: Blank page.
- DarthWiki.Trolls and SugarWiki.Trolls: Both used to list YMMV items in the respective namespaces; the Sugar Wiki stuff can just go on the main YMMV page.
- DrinkingGame.Trolls: Too short, and has some odd stuff such as "Whenever you get a Squick, Narm or Tastes Like Diabetes feeling". The same applies to the other Trolls Drinking Game subpages listed on the bottom.
- FanficRecs.Trolls: Blank.
- FanWorks.Trolls: Only a single work listed, which is far too little for a Fan Works subpage.
- GravityIsAHarshMistress.Trolls: This page singles out every example of the trope, which seems excessive.
- Haiku.Trolls: Another blank page.
- LogoJoke.Trolls: Too short to have a separate subpage.
- Memes.Trolls: Again, too short.
- Pantheon.Trolls: I very highly doubt that this page was actually approved, especially since it's a stub.
- Quotes.Trolls and Quotes.Trolls World Tour: Are Quotes subpage supposed to have spoiler tags?
- Radar.Trolls: Another overly-short subpage that seems like 100% misuse under GCPTR's new restrictions.
- ShoutOut.Trolls: Again, seems too short to deserve a separate subpage. Same applies to ShoutOut.Trolls Trollstopia, but ShoutOut.Trolls The Beat Goes On doesn't seem too bad.
- Timeline.Trolls: I am not a Trolls fan and have never seen any of the works in the franchise, but I doubt the timeline is complicated enough that it needs a separate subpage.
- WhatCouldHaveBeen.Trolls World Tour: Not too short, but I think its contents can still just go on WhatCouldHaveBeen.Trolls.
openTrolls subpages
reposting here from a Trope Talk thread to see if i can get some more succinct answers about this.
i think trolls might be suffering from a bizarre form of Entry Pimping; it seems one particular user, Inky100, is insistent on making subpages because it's possible even if it isn't necessary. besides LogoJoke.Trolls (the subject of the original thread, deemed too short to be necessary), here's a rundown:
- Analysis.Trolls is blank
- DarthWiki.Trolls and SugarWiki.Trolls are just used to list YMMV tropes—and Not Safe for Work, for some reason. isn't NSFW supposed to be a definition-only page?
- DrinkingGame.Trolls and its subpages are clearly stretching for things to "drink" for—"Whenever you get a Squick, Narm or Tastes Like Diabetes feeling" is on all of them—and also, oddly, provides non-alcoholic alternatives
- FanficRecs.Trolls is blank; FanWorks.Trolls only has one entry and multiple blank folders
- Haiku.Trolls is blank
- WhatCouldHaveBeen.TrollsWorldTour has been brought up before as not exactly being necessary given that there's already a tenuously-necessary WhatCouldHaveBeen.Trolls page
- GravityIsAHarshMistress.Trolls is probably the strangest of all, since Gravity Is a Harsh Mistress is such an omnipresent cartoon trope you don't have to single out every single instance of it on its own subpage
there's a few other oddities besides that which are still valid but definitely read like someone hoping to pad out subpages to make the series look more important than it really is, like Recap.Trolls (which has subpages for all of the individual entries in the series, kind of defeating the point), Timeline.Trolls (the extensive and confusing timeline of the trolls universe?), and Memes.Trolls (most YMMV pages have longer "memetic mutation" sections than this). i'm not exactly sure what to do with all this, but it's really strange.
besides cutlisting the blank pages, is there anything that should be done about the others?
openQuestionable YMMV Wording Film
YMMV.Jason And The Argonauts has some complainy entries for Narm and Took the Bad Film Seriously. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but should they be commented out or removed (haven't seen the movie so I can't reword them)?
openProblematic Troper
Boomerang 123 goes easy on context and heavy on shoehorning and complaining.
On YMMV.Strange Magic, they added this:
- The Scrappy:
- Sunny is disliked for being an annoying simp towards Dawn and tries to mess with her free will to get together with her. It doesn’t help that he doesn’t even seem to care that he caused the movie's conflict.
- Roland is annoying and obnoxious even by villain standards. He’s not subtle about his intentions at all, is a complete rip-off of Hans and Gaston, doesn’t really do anything entertaining or intimidating, and his voice sounds like Nicholas Cage doing a bad Elvis impression. His comeuppance isn’t even satisfying or fitting, it’s just nauseating.
- So Bad, It's Good: The movie's jukebox musical concept is cheesy, but sometimes you can’t help but laugh at how unrecognizable the songs sound compared to the originals.
- Cliché Storm: A princess swears off love forever after a bad relationship and somehow ends up falling in love with someone along the way. Not to mention, the villain's whole motivation for destroying love has been done to death.
- Designated Hero: Sunny is supposed to Dawn's one true love, but he comes off as a bit of a jerk for trying to use a love potion on her and practically manipulates her into hooking up with him at the end, even though she clearly wasn’t interested.
- Arc Fatigue: About two thirds of the film consist of the characters singing pop songs or wacky antics. We don’t get any real action or character development until the third act.
Then, they added entries that sound like "things I personally wish happened":
- Ass Pull:
- Bog survives his castle being destroyed with only a small scratch. You’d expect him to have a sprained ankle or at least a stubbed toe.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
- Even people who liked the film wished the movie would give more depth to the two kingdoms being divided and why they refuse to live in peace. It was more like a "stay on your side" kind of deal.
- Marianne and Bog’s romance is praised, but it doesn’t get much development or focus. It would have been nice to see how their romance would affect their respective kingdoms, but by the time they start falling for each other, there’s only thirty minutes left in the movie.
- No Celebrities Were Harmed: Sounds like Nicholas Cage doing a bad Elvis impersonation.
- Card-Carrying Villain: Roland is not subtle about his intentions at all.
- Dumb Muscle: He’s not very bright.
Looking through their edit history, I spotted more entries with insufficient context, at the very least, here
and here
, so I sent a context notifier, too. Since then, they made edits here
and here
; some of them lack context again. (I don't know these works, so I can't judge if the tropes fit.)
Also, a couple of days after I sent the complaining notifier, they added
this entry on YMMV.Ice Age 5 Collision Course:
- Narm: Many interviews with the cast members and spots called this, "the best Ice Age movie ever" and that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
openConcerning Troper
I have some concerns about Maddoxsort and I unfortunately do not know how to approach them.
- The moderators and administrators are to be viewed as apathetic Hanging Judge types. They will not sympathize, only criticize. They will not just micromanage, they will cauterize you like a viral infection. They are relentlessly predatory and will immediately gobble up anybody who causes a negative commotion on the wiki in the slightest. It will always be a Hopeless Boss Fight against them, and the sooner you admit this, the better off you'll be.
And this:
- Overall, this wiki is exacting as heck. Every time you make an edit, it must be useful. If there's no practical reason to add something and you do so anyway, it's already wrong. Like that image you wanted to add on a recap page? Forget it- it's in the way. (Or at least wait a few years until the opposition clears out) If it so much as smells like it's politically charged, it's a full-on declaration of war. If you add content with personal bias or sexually suggestive undertones, it's gonna get swabbed away. And if someone can find a reason to dispute one edit, they find reason to dispute them all. Which leads to a waste of time you could be spending more constructively. And it often leaves me wondering, "Why do I even bother?"Exactly. They say they want you to edit, when in reality, you're just some cog in a machine that you don't get to run. A cog who just contributes a waste of time. And that's just sad.Look, but don't touch.
What I am more concerned of, though, is that Maddoxsort admits on their Troper page to being the creator of Eureka Seven: Paradox Makers—or at the very least, very closely involved in the creation of it. They're pretty much the only Troper to have edited the page, which in and of itself is fine. As we've discussed on ATT before, creators may edit pages for their work. Some of their edits have issues like ZCE and trope misuse, but my main concern is that they are Auto-Erotic Troping on the YMMV page. Maddoxsort has added Author's Saving Throw, Adorkable, Holy Shit Quotient, and Fanon, and in pretty...self-congratulatory ways.
- Holy Shit Quotient: Claire bumps into Gidget by accident. Just seeing one of the most lovable Gekkostate alumni doing great is a really pleasant experience.
- Fanon: This story is basically an expansion pack to the Eureka Seven history tailored for the fandom based on feedback. It's not pandering because the writer has a clear vision of what they want to portray and they aren't wavering from that path.
What brought my attention to this Troper was the edit of another one, Robert TYL, who could also use a talking-to about using YMMV pages to mock works. All their edits under Narm are links to pages from the Webcomic with descriptors like "Here be an action-packed human vs. mecha battle as sketched by an 8 year-old with an aneurysm" and "illustrated by a toddler who found out a ballpoint pen can, in fact, be used for art." Maddoxsort has deleted two so far, with the reason "The jokes are not appreciated, you asshole. At least now I know which ones to redo."
I am unsure of how to broach this situation. I see rudeness in the Troper page and Auto-Erotic Troping, but also Robert TYL breaking the "don't be a dick" rule.
openPossible misuse of narm Live Action TV
The YMMV page of Superman & Lois has two entries of Narm, both from the pilot, which read:
- The dramatic intensity with which Clark confesses his origin story to Jon and Jordan can be so over-the-top in a "well, when you say it like that, this whole thing is actually pretty silly" kind of way. With the way it's played out, you'd almost expect for Clark to laugh and yell "just kidding!" instead of proving himself by lifting the truck.
- Nobody at the party noticing Jordan using his heat vision during the brawl, even though he's surrounded by dozens of people, some of whom are filming the brawl. Makes the emotional and shocking scene seem unintentionally comedic.
I have to ask, is this valid? Narm only applies for moments that are meant to be taken seriously but instead come off as hilarious, not moments that either fall flat or just don't have the intended effect.

I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
And
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.