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Ask the Tropers:
open Captain Marvel Edit War
Okay so the title may be an exaggeration but I have been finding some examples for Captain Marvel which I feel would fit. However since I don't want to Edit War I am looking for some second opinions. The examples deleted are as follows:
- Artistic License – Military: Women weren't able to serve as fighter pilots until 1993 so Carol and Maria wouldn't be able to fly around in fighter jets. They would be flying in Tankers. (Reason, The Film said they weren't flying in combat, except we still they were flying combat aircraft and I never mentioned if they were flying in combat or not just bringing they shouldn't be flying jets at all.)
- Bond Villain Stupidity: Yon-Rogg decides to challenge to a fist fight instead of just shooting her for no particular reason. (not mine but was removed with no edit reason given.)
- Narm (on the YMMV page)
- Carol's constant use of her energy as The All-Solving Hammer becomes this after all while. Particularly in the bar where she uses to destroy a Jukebox to "prove" she was not Skrull to someone who she knew heard about them less than a few hours ago.
- Talos drinking from a soda cup when confronting Carol and Fury at the Rambeau's house robs most of the tension from the scene. (both remove they were meant to funny when Narm but the fact remains deliberate or not they make no sense and in the latter the scene continues like the moment didn't happen at all.)
- Vanilla Protagonist: One criticism leveled towards the film is that the titular Captain Marvel comes across as very plain and boring compared to many of the other protagonists in their origin movie. She isn't terrible mind you, but to some she feels very plain and less compelling, which given how she is supposed to become the face of the MCU after the next Avengers film, has left some feeling concerned what direction her character will go. (a puedo-reason was saying she wasn't one in this movie but no elaboration)
openOverly protective of the DCEU. Film
Somewhat preemptive, but Deeed is being way protective of the DCEU and edit-warring to do so.
The worst example so far is on IdiotPlot.Live Action Film, where they pulled an entry without an edit reason. A discussion post was made by someone else asking for an explanation, and then it was restored after I pointed out that it was deleted without explanation (which, you know, is vandalism). They did then participate in the discussion... after re-deleting the movie, and rather than give an explanation, they linked a bunch of youtube links and said "no, it's totally explained." So they are using the discussion... but upon further thought, that might be worse since they're ignoring it.
Also unacceptable:
- Deleting link to a narm subpage
- Again, deleting an entire movie without explanation
. When it was restored, they then neutered an example into what's at best a ZCE, despite being near-universally considered laughable.
Now again, this is preemptive as though he's edit-warring, he's at least checking discussion pages and responding, even though his responses are unsatisfactory.
Edited by LarkmarnopenNarm not YMMV? Videogame
On YMMV.Mortal Kombat Special Forces I found a hidden comment that reads this:
I see Narm all the time on YMMV pages, and the trope page for it mentions that it's YMMV material, not Darth Wiki. Am I missing something, or is the person who added this wrong?
Edited by JRads47openEdit War in YMMV/StevenUniverse
Back in July, The Lucky Cat added this to the Narm section of Steven Universe:
- Lapis Lazuli is the only person unaffected by Blue Diamond's Emotion Bomb and gives what's obviously meant to be a Badass Boast, but she looks so finicky smug and her attacks prove to do nothing more than annoy Blue Diamond, it just comes off as trying way to hard.
This is literally no one else's opinion. Everyone in the fandom thinks this scene was amazing, especially Lapis' delivery. As such, Emerald 141 removed the example.
A few hours ago, The Lucky Cat added a somewhat edited version of the entry back to the page:
- Lapis Lazuli's attempted Badass Boast in "Reunited" just comes off as kind of melodramatic and silly, especially with her smirking face.
- Lapis: I've had worse.
Also, and this probably isn't the point right now, but she wasn't smirking.
openComplaining Edit Reasons
Bismuth83
seems to have a Single-Issue Wonk regarding an anime and Netflix's treatment of it as seen here
, here
, here
, here
, and here
.
openSpider-Man stuff
Revolutionary_Jack has been adding a lot of entries to Spider-Man YMMV pages that don't have a general fandom consensus to be on the YMMV page, such as Steve Ditko's Gwen Stacy being a Love to Hate character and modern readers preferring her to any other version of Gwen. Entries that are legit are very long-winded and nattery, and they also deleted a Spider-Man 3 Vindicated by History example due to the film "not being a classic" even though its reputation has improved post-ASM 2 and the Editor's Cut salvaging a lot of the movie. The following examples are just from the Spider-Man 3 YMMV page but similar examples can be found on other Spider-Man pages, including main, subpage, and trivia pages.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Revolutionary_Jack
"* Misaimed Fandom:
- The symbiote influenced Peter is supposed to be Peter Slowly Sliding Into Evil and the narm and lameness of "Emo Peter" is definitely an Intended Audience Reaction. But given that many audiences had grown fatigued over Raimi's portrayal of Peter as a serious Extreme Doormat Hurting Hero in the previous films (even if Maguire himself was praised for his performance and screen presence), the fact that the one time we see Peter acting somewhat closer to his more rounded comics' portrayal such as him talking back to his landlord and giving Harry Osborn a piece of his mind, it's shown as a case of a Symbiote turning him evil, makes many fans express frustration about Raimi's misreading of the character as a suffering superhero monk.
- Many fans especially feel this way about Peter negotiating a higher salary from Jameson. In the comics this happened at the end of the Master Planner arc (considered among the all-time greatest stories in Spider-Man mythos), and it was portrayed as a Hell Yes moment. The movie makes it seem like this is his Start of Darkness even if what Peter is doing, calling out Eddie Brock for his unethical work and fighting against Jameson's exploitation, is entirely legitimate."
"* They Changed It, Now It Sucks!:
- A big sticking point for some fans, even if the character on the whole was praised, was the Retcon that made Sandman into Uncle Ben's killer. It's not the first time a superhero film did this (Tim Burton's Batman did the same to Joker, and it was criticized even then by many reviewersnote It was an element that DC Comics, normally receptive to introducing elements from adaptations, absolutely refused to incorporate into the character since it drastically undermined the appeal of the Batman-Joker rivalry) but many audiences felt it drastically undercut and ruined Peter's origin from Spider-Man 1 (since if the burglar Peter specifically didn't let escape kill Uncle Ben, and it was his getaway partner who did it in panic, then that means that Peter isn't actually responsible for his Uncle's death and his entire guilt was misplaced, which ruins the crucial theme from his story). Many also saw it as an inability for Raimi and Sony to create a nemesis who wasn't a free agent unconnected to Peter's story and life simply so that they could rehash simple beats. A tendency at Sony Pictures which continued in The Amazing Spider-Man Series and which the hacked Sony emails had one of Marvel's own executives call them out on.
- As a number of fans note, the Symbiote was never Spider-Man's Superpowered Evil Side nor did it turn him into evil, and definitely ''not'' emo. The original Symbiote was a sentient suit that liked Spider-Man and became a case of a Stalker with a Crush. It ended up taking Peter out as Spider-Man while in his sleep, and Peter worried about gaps and lack of control parted ways with it, which made the Symbiote a crazy jealous ex, who saw new host Eddie Brock as "sloppy seconds". The change in dynamics to a more simplistic Jekyll and Hyde story annoyed many for cheapening a great concept, as well as creating frustrating drama since Peter acts like a jerk to his loved ones but since it's not really his fault, all his actions can be blamed on Gollum Made Me Do It (which as many note was a beat that applied to the villain of Spider-Man 1 and something which Peter didn't entirely accept there)."
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openVandal report
89pizzaparty vandalized YMMV.Mortal Kombat 11 twice so far. First by adding "Don't act like that shit wasn't fire. Plus the trailer for MKX had Wiz Khalifa." to the Narm entry (the entry as a whole was deleted due to being misuse), then by changing the last sentence of Memetic Mutation to "Unfortunately, none of the mixes have matched the original trailer nor have they made anyone laugh."
Edited by ZuxtronopenNarm---Ducktales 2017 Western Animation
I've been running into a problem with multiple misuses of narm. However I wanted to double check just in case I'm the one who is misunderstanding the trope. Narm is only applicable when a scene or moment is unintentionally funny or cheesy right? It's all about what the creator intended. If they wanted a funny thing to happen during a serious scene it can be considered mood wiplash or even big lipped alligator moment but not narm. And people getting over their sadness in less than three minutes is angst what angst or mood wiplash not narm, right?
open(Minor) Edit War - Captain Marvel (2019) Narm Film
This entry keeps getting taken out, then put back in by ajbit26 (Let me know if I'm not supposed to name them):
- Brie Larson's complete lack of a facial expression in much of the trailer has led to some rather unflattering comparisons to Bella Swan.
It's a misuse of narm, I'm pretty sure. And it's just unnecessary complaining. Thoughts?
openYMMV Octopath Traveler edits Videogame
Over on YMMV.Octopath Traveler Knack is deleting stuff like Fan-Preferred Couple, Narm, Ho Yay, and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, with edit reasons boiling down to "It doesn't make sense to be bothered by something for how it was intended", but I'm unsure if it's enough to warrant deletion as I have seen several people on multiple forums and discussion boards talking about the content in entries that were deleted, with many people talking about how they wished there was more character interaction during stories and/or the characters piecing together what they experienced throughout the story.
Another editor had put the deleted stuff back, saying "YMMV is based on opinions and, at least according to the pictures posted on Tumblr, these opinions seem to be widespread enough to be mentioned on this page. The fact that the game doesn't acknowledge the presence of the other travelers even in events in which they should be (Primrose is wounded, Therion is infiltrating a place) is a valid point and far from inaccurate." only for them to be deleted again.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.OctopathTraveler
openInconsistent standards for the That One tropes? Videogame
It took me a while to notice, but there appears to be some inconsistency with what applies for any of the That One tropes for certain games. For example, back when Fire Emblem Warriors came out, Gunarm Dyne stated that nothing besides the story mode could be any of the That One tropes. This was despite the fact that the bulk of the games content is in the History Mode, which while "extra content", is still a part of the game and was clearly designed to be where most of the game is played. Meanwhile, the Hyrule Warriors pages have several That One Level entrees for its equivalent of the History mode, and its DLC or Legends port.
If we look outside of this as well, games such as the Dark Souls series have many of the extra/dlc locations/bosses as That One examples. While yes the Souls games are not the same gameplay genre as a Warriors game, they still should be held to the same standards since Brutal Bonus Level would imply that the level is extra, outside of the games main content, which if anything, the History mode for FE Warriors is where most of the games content is.
I've also not, as far as I know, seen Brutal Bonus Level being used on any of the mentioned pages. I'd like if some agreement could be made since it seems silly that FE Warriors is the only page I've seen so far that this was made a big deal about, though I could be wrong.
Edited by keyblade333open Is this Narm?
From YMMV.Blaz Blue Cross Tag Battle.
- Much like Jump Force, the very idea of these franchises crossing fates can be this in some circles of the internet. Due to the massive power gap between BlazBlue and the other three series, many find the idea that any of these characters realistically taking on the BlazBlue protagonists and antagonists to be laughable. This video
sums it up pretty nicely. There pretty much seems to be an agreement that the other franchises would get decimated if this were realistically played out.
Don't think it's being unintentionally funny by accident.
Edited by WhirlRXopenValid or no? ''Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom'' Spoilers. Film
I added to the YMMV page for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom regarding Narm, only for troper TantaMonty
to remove them.
- The scene where Mills tells the heroes that Maisie is actually a clone comes right out of no where, with Mills having little reason to tell them. The sheer jarring way it is revealed is much funnier than it should be, since it was clearly meant to be a Shocking Swerve, but didn't quite land the mark.
- The film graces us with perhaps the silliest death in the entire series: Mills killing Lockwood by suffocating him with a pillow. The hilarity of such a thing in a movie filled with killer Dinosaurs is much funnier than the film probably realized.
Their reason as: The mere fact Lockwood was killed by something that was not a dinosaur is not funny at all, as he was just a feeble old man murdered by one of the most despicable characters in the movie. Also, Eli did have a reason to reveal Maisie's origins, in his own twisted mind he thought that Owen and Claire would stop caring for the young girl if they find out she was the result of unethical genetic practices..
Are these valid examples? The first one is valid if you ask me since how the scene is framed just has the reveal happen as if telling the audience, and the reason they removed it is just using headcanon for why since there isn't a reason for it. Plus, unless the trope is a misuse, opinions are still valid as far as I am aware.
Plus it seems like the troper might be semi policing the movies pages, which can be a problem going forward. Also I should add I don't mind if these are seen as bad examples, just wanted to make sure.
Edited by keyblade333openEdit/Removal of Somewhat Transphobic Example on YMMV/Billions Live Action TV
Wasn't sure how to best phrase this inquiry. So, I saw on Billions, Troll Brutal re-added an example of Narm they had written, and which was removed by Tropers/thatfruitcake.
This is the example:
- The constant use of "they" and "them" without failure to refer to Taylor Mason -lest they want to put someone under the Politically Incorrect Villain light- sounds forced and rehearsed. In real life, it would be extremely difficult not to slip an occasional "she" without intended malice.
And this is Troll Brutal's edit reason:
Unexplained removal from what appears to be an agenda-based new account. which warrants a prudent restoration on principle. Even in this wiki we have neutral editors using "she" and corrections every one and then, but when John Malkovich uses it, we have the creators on record saying that reflects on his villainy. There's honest mistake, and then there's heavy handeness. Reasons and discussions are needed around here to contest.
So, my two cents at least is that while I can see the need to discuss something before removing/ discuss along with removing, the example and edit reason are really iffy. Because while I can acknowledge that it's very plausible that someone could misgender someone innocently and without malice, I don't think it's particularly narmy if at all that everyone would be shown using correct/desired pronouns, or that a malicious character deliberately wouldn't. And the fact that it was a deliberate writer choice doesn't make it heavy handed.
Full disclosure, I had a similar critique about a book River of Teeth in terms of how everyone, even the villain, correctly used "they" and "them" to refer to one character, but that was because the book is set in the 1800's in a "Wild West" setting. However, I don't think there's anything particularly surprising or "politically correct" that in a modern office setting everyone would use correct pronouns.
Thoughts?
openNarm for a Creator
There's a Dakari King Mykan page that's a narm page for a creator, including IRL stuff he says.
I don't think that's allowed. (The pages for his works are fairly bashy as well.)
Edited by lalalei2001openNarm misuse?
From YMMV.My Little Pony The Movie 2017:
- Like You Would Really Do It: When Twilight Sparkle gets sucked into the tornado in the final act, everyone mostly saw the Disney Death coming a good lightyears away and in turn, really took the drama out of the scene. Of course, this ended up being the case. But for some, it didn't make the subsequent mourning by the ponies any less sad or effective.
- Narm: Try as they might to sell it, no one was buying Twilight Sparkle's demise via the Storm King's tornado in the final act. To nobody's surprise, she wasn't dead after all, really sucking out whatever legitimacy that was in the scene for some.
- Narm Charm: Twilight's Disney Death in the final act was extremely predictable, but the music and the ponies mourning her potential demise afterwards still resonated, due to just how effective it was.
Is the Narm example valid since Narm is about a scene generating the wrong emotion as opposed to this which is covered under Like You Would Really Do It and there's arguing if it's this or Narm Charm (my impression is that it was as well done as possible knowing she'd make it)?
openEdit warring on ymmv page of JaneTheVirgin Live Action TV
Troper Sabat has been Edit Waring on the ymmv page of Jane the Virgin. They added these two entries several times despite being removed by two other people on the grounds of having racist leanings as well as coming off as biased.
Here are the entries in question: Anvilicious: This show has addressed the subject of illegal immigration in a one-sided manner, but it is especially obvious in Chapter 61, which dedicates another Alba subplot to the issue, finally culminating in Mateo asking "why some people don't want peace" in America.
- Strawman Has a Point: While the snooty white woman in Chapter 61 who informed a Spanish-speaking guest that "This is America. You should learn to speak English," was rude, many people would agree that if you live somewhere, you should know how to speak their language. Alba later reciting the Preamble of the Constitution as a retort comes across very Narm, as well.
As well as the Edit history
open YMMV equivelent of Dude Not Funny
Since Dude Not Funny was changed to In Universe Examples Only due to most of the examples listed on the trope page being in universe, I want to know what trope would work to replace Dude Not Funny for YMMV. What trope should be listed when referring to a scene in a movie or something that is supposed to be funny that the real life audience gets offended by? Do you list an inversion of Narm or what? There better be one, how else are we supposed to complain about offensive scenes like that?
Edited by bobgopenPossible Edit War?
Earlier today, I removed this Narm example from YMMV.Steven Universe, citing that I hadn't seen anyone say that it came off as goofy or that it took away from the scene:
- In "Jungle Moon" AJ Michalka's oddly restrained delivery of Pink Diamond's tantrum shows that Bratty Half-Pint really isn't in her acting comfort zone.
- Pink's tantrum in "Jungle Moon" sounds a lot like the start of a diss rap.

Forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place, I'm kind of unclear where to go to suggest this.
In my opinion, Narm could use a dedicated cleanup thread, considering how often it's used for complaining. While some misuse is easy to catch (e.g. saying a joke is Narm when Narm by definition can't be a joke), a lot of examples fall into grey areas that seem like misuse but it's hard to tell. Like nitpicks that at first glance seem to be valid examples, but feel like stretches the more you think about them. Look at the page for, say, Venom (2018).
Thoughts?
Edited by MisterApes-a-lot