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openHostile edit reasons from troper. Videogame
On 1/01 Mr Heroes added the following meme to the Fate/Grand Order meme page:
- Muramasa is ShirouExplanation While he takes Shirou's form, Muramasa isn't Shirou. A running gag is having Muramasa mistaken/called Shirou, which is popular with fan artists.
On 1/04, Rebel Falcon removed it with an unusually hostile edit reason spread across a few minutes:
- "For the last time, Muramasa is Shiro. Muramasa is a Pseudo-Servant using Shiro as his host, and his bio quite literally says that Shiro's personality is the dominant one. He doesn't simply look like Shiro, he is Shiro."
- Saying Muramasa isn't Shiro is like saying Ishtar isn't Rin, or Jaguar Warrior isn't Taiga, or Ganesha isn't Jinako. It's literally their bodies and personalities, its just some have themselves in the drivers seat, some have the spirit, and some fuse together. Bottom line though, Muramasa is fucking Shiro Emiya.
Now in the first instance, this was done because it appears Rebel may have submitted their edit early, cutting off the message as the first of three edits has this edit reason: For the last time, ''Muramasa is Shiro".
However, the third entry was made after the second, more detailed one, and was close to ten minutes later. The meme itself is probably fine being removed but the edit reason is very hostile and leaves me concerned since this is something I've noticed seems to be a recent trend of there's.
For example, on the RWBY page, they readded an entry on 1/03 that was removed with the following edit reason: "Don't remove shit without giving a reason."
I've not had much interaction with Rebel except for once but I wanted to mention it since this hostility is concerning. Not to suspend them concern, more so just a "Hey, everything okay?" kind of concern.
Edited by keyblade333openOn Scorpider77 Videogame
Scorpider77 seems like a good troper in all respects, except one; he seems to have this wonk over Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam 2 and keeps talking about how everyone is clamoring for it and linking to its page.
There's just one problem: the game doesn't exist. While his non Mario edits are fine, anything pertaining to Mario (Bowser Jr.'s Journey, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and YMMV.Mario And Luigi Paper Jam, and YMMV.Mario Plus Rabbids Sparks Of Hope, among others) keeps having him throw in references to this nonexistent game, culminating in him making a since-cut page for it on the 11th of this month.
He also DMed me a link to a tweet that allegedly shows the proof of this clamoring (along with saying the game exists and Nintendo hasn't found the time to reveal it, stated with no proof whatsoever), except it's an analytics link - which can only be seen by the person who made the tweet. So he's shilling both himself and a nonexistent game to the detriment of factual information.
openAssistance in resolving/preventing an edit war on Creator/QuintonFlynn Videogame
Bringing this here since the page's discussion forum doesn't get a lot of traffic.
To provide a bit of context, back in November 2020 images and audio of Voice Actor Quinton Flynn sexually harassing female fans surfaced on social media followed up by multiple accusations from many other women. This led to Flynn losing upcoming roles as documented on the Role Ending Misdemeanor Video Games page. Six months Flynn had sued one of his accusing for stalking him and got a court victory over her, then claimed on Twitter that a judge had found him not guilty of the accusations. This is pretty blatantly a lie; as the plaintiff his guilt or innocence was never under any consideration, he was only suing one woman for stalking him, she defended herself which is a good sign she didn't receive the best legal council, and her being guilty of stalking him does not mean he can't be guilty of harassing her. However some of his fans have taken this as proof that all accusations against him are false and he is 100% innocent since she had to delete her tweets on the matter. So Flynn portraying the decision as him being found not guilty is dishonest and a bit suspect.
Now onto the actual matter; over on his creator page when the judge's decision was brought down Captain Tedium deleted the section on the accusations on April 22 2021 with the following edit reason:
"The sexual allegations have recently been debunked. https://mobile.twitter.com/JasmineDBZking/status/1384605216650059780
Reinstate the detail of what happened in November 2020 only if the proof of Quinton Flynn's innocence is itself debunked. Or if this incident has ended up affecting his career anyway."
On July 4th The Extractor added in a modified entry with the accusations, court victory and the loss of roles with the following edit reasons
"A statement that he alone released, that no one else corroborated, that still contradicts a shitload of visual and audio evidence doesn't remotely absolve him of anything. It also doesn't change the fact that he's effectively been fired from everything and is yet to be re-hired on anything. I'll amend this part so it's more objective and less "hostile", but it stays."
On the 20th I amended the entry to remove the reference to the court case as I felt the way it was written would lead someone to an incorrect assumption of what happened and that to properly explain and provide context would take up a lot of words that in my opinion was largely irrelevant to the point.
There were no further edits to the page until November 6th when Tropers/shaynaynaynot edited the page to add "In April 2021, Flynn tweeted that the accusations came from a stalker
, and he was found not guilty." They also added the same to the REM subpage.
Now what's been added is objectively false (as the plaintiff it is quite literally impossible for him to be found not guilty), but given as this could be described as either the first, second or fourth edit on the matter depending on your definition I'm concerned that reverting it would be considered an edit war, and given that only four of us have been involved in editing there is little hope of getting a consensus. So I'm seeking further input from people who haven't been involved so far.
openQuestion regarding a Dethroning moment Videogame
Kibchi has added a DethroningMoment.Video Games moment that I felt got way too personal to qualify:
- Kibchi here. My current moment for me is how Nintendo handled the casting for Three Houses. First they get Edelgard a new voice actor (and don't even tell us why,) and then they replace Byleth's with a total novice over Tumblr drama. Chris confessed to a lot of abuse, (that happened because people decided to emotionally abuse him badly enough he was suicidal,) and violated his NDA (by talking in a closed circle of friends, apparently) so they replaced him with this guy who's barely old enough to drink. This lack of transparency and their desperate cling to their image is utterly disgusting. The Nintendo Ninjas have lost their right to call themselves ninja- Only the most despicable scum would kick a suicidal man when he's down. This attempt to whitewash their image is just making it worse. I'd pre-ordered the game before it happened, so I couldn't just cancel my order on release day, but I'm not buying any DLC. Also, I'm not updating the game. The Day One patch can go fuck itself.
This DMOS has nothing to do with the game itself and kinda constitute as a real life example yet the troper readded it back despite being previously removed twice due to not being a fictional moment.
Edited by Loekman3openTroper with linking issues and a shipping bias Videogame
Mysticalmagic 483 often edits on the Sonic the Hedgehog pages, and I've found myself having to correct their edits from time to time.
- Here
they don't properly link an example.
- Another
example of not using link brackets.
- Word cruft
In addition, they have such an obvious shipping bias. They are a fan of the Sonic/Blaze pairing. They are entitled to that opinion, because this is the internet, and everyone is allowed to have their own opinion even if I don't agree with it.
What they AREN'T entitled to is deleting mentions of the Silver/Blaze pairing because it goes against their preferred ship.
- Here
they take off details of Blaze's Ship Tease entry.
- Here
they delete a point saying Sonic is a Shipper on Deck for Silver/Blaze.
- Here
they remove a segment where both Silver and Blaze blush at being called a cute couple.
- Here
they insist that the pairing Silver and Amy "makes more sense" (no hate to anyone who ships this, but in canon Amy has a Single-Target Sexuality for Sonic).
- Here
they remove another point about her being close to Silver.
Permission to revert these edits?
Edited by deerhornsaresoprettyopenWe've Got a Scrappy Problem Videogame
About a month ago, I deleted all the entries for The Scrappy on Criminal Case because they were clearly meant to be hated and hated badly. Here it is for reference:
- The Scrappy:
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
, Miriam Young won the game's "Most Annoying Character" title (by a very huge margin) due to her cold and domineering personality, and her cruel treatment towards Amy (who, by contrast, was voted as the fan favorite). Not only that, several fans have gone as far as saying that she should be in jail instead of Duncan even though he's the Night Walker.
- Albert Tesla also qualifies, for abandoning his son, thinking himself to be Pacific Bay's God, nearly destroying it and killing fan-favorite Frank Knight when he attempts to stop him. He's even voted the game's "Most Annoying Character" of 2015.
- Sarah Bennet was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2016 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
. Rightfully so since she nearly killed Jack, killed Dupont and Natasha (regardless of her affiliation with SOMBRA, she's still Marina's mom), and nearly caused World War III.
- Horatio Rochester was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2017 Criminal Case Wiki Awards, owing to his attempt to fully control Concordia as a city-state and abolish press freedom. Moreover, unlike Justin Lawson, who was ultimately a Well-Intentioned Extremist who Jumped Off The Slippery Slope, Horatio has no redeeming qualities and is motivated by selfish and petty reasons.
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
I discovered only today that three days later, user pizzasoda66 added them all back. Their reasons were, and I quote, "The description of this trope is "The fans hate this character for some reason.". Just because they're supposed to be disliked doesn't mean they're not scrappies. Why do you think they were voted as the most annoying character?"
Whether or not a character who's meant to be hated can qualify as a Scrappy anyway is a mug I don't wanna chug right now, but their description of The Scrappy as a trope is way off. It's the given explanation on the laconic page, which feels like an artifact of the past, and should be changed to add the qualifier "against the intentions of the creator". Because that being the case, again, none of these assholes are unintentionally hated.
I would go back and say this, but I'd rather not get hit with an Edit War accusation and edit banned for it. What do you guys think?
open Troper vandalizin’ character page. Videogame
Prest Otron has been tamperin’ Five Nights at Freddy's: First Generation, specifically the quotes. They changed them from in-game quotes to attacks on the FNAF fandom. Here is an example:
From:
To:
Dunno if they have been on other pages.
Edited by DelibirdaopenEdit war and possesiveness of Nikke articles Videogame
Troper True Shadow 97 has has engaged in edit war over people changing edits they have made on entries about the player character of video game Goddess of Victory: NIKKE.
They have left comments in the articles that clearly show they feel possesive over the way the player character is presented.
The first time I noticed this was with this edit:
I removed a note thar tried to argue the canonicty of the entry.
They sent me several pm arguing about whether the side events are canon or not, they finally rewrote the entry here.
Did not contend because my main problem was with the note added and I can see the argument from Rapi's POV.
The second problem came when they added yet another note to downplay /argue against one of the entries on the Really Gets Around entry on the protagonist (Nikke is a harem gacha, so the protagonist gets physically intimate with SOME of the girls in the side stories).
I removed this comment because I felt it was not only unnecessary, but wrong as the developers don't really make a distinction between main story and side stories, everything is considered canon.
They reverted the entry and added a new comment justifying itself here.
At this poit I felt the troper clearly has a wonk over the harem aspect of the game and is possesive of entries that downplay Rapi's position as the canon love interest (it is a sentiment I've seen expressed elsewhere on reddit and twitter, where people take issue with the Commander having intimate relationships with other characters, so they argue that these instances are not really valid because they never happen in the main story).
I made a previous ask the tropers entry that goes into more detail here. Never took any action because I got no feedback on it.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=145452&type=att
Their last edit remained unchanged for months until some weeks ago when user dinur7.
This came along with a change in the description of the protagonist that to note them as a player avatar.
True Shadow 97 then reverts both changes to how they were before, including the Really Gets Around entry that waa already edited by them, and adds yet another comment justifying their reversion besdies the one they added when they reverted my change.
The hidden comments in question.
"Commander is mentioned as being popular with many Nikkes in the main story using various phrasings, but the Downplayed part of the entry remains factually accurate: none of the events that are relevant to the Campaign Story as of Chapter 42, such as Dirty Backyard or D.ARK HERO involve him getting hot and heavy with anyone."
"The clarification in the following entry was previously removed as "unnecessary" on the grounds of an increasing amount of events getting interconnected and some of them being canonized by the main story, such as Helm's bond story. Clarification rephrased for improved relevance and restored on the grounds of many players believing that any of Commander's romantic or sexual escapades are canon to said main story (which is possible, but hasn't been established yet, while Mihara and Yuni's bond stories are explicitly non-canon due to directly contradicting the events of Chapter 4) and none of the events that have been explicitly canonized (such as Dirty Backyard) feature Commander entering relationships with anyone."
His argument that Dirty Backyard doesn't support the Commander being in other relationships is factually wrong, its part of a chain of side stories that have the commander involved directly with three of the nikke involved in the ongoing plot.
Edited by MrSeykeropenEdit War in YMMV/FinalFantasyXV Videogame
Immortal Bear re-deleted
an entry I restored to Final Fantasy XV since their original deletion lacked an edit reason. They've provided an explanation after the fact, but most of it comes off as personal opinion and dislike of the Episode Ignis ending for reasons unrelated to what the original entry was about (that being that audience perception of its tone shifted due to Dot F), rather than an impartial collective observation of the reactions of the fandom at the time.
I've PM'd them as much, pointing out to them that they seem to take the YMMV label too literally as its actual focus is to describe audience responses to a work rather than to post personal opinions, that contrary to their belief the page is not trying to wage a war over which ending is objectively better, and I've also pointed out to them that though they claim the only people with a non-negative opinion are a Vocal Minority, other tropers have made the same observations as me regarding the state of the fandom at the time.
They seem to believe that because Dawn of the Future has an overall score of 9.0 on Good Reads (which often has a userbase culture distinct from the social media sites I frequent like Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, or imageboards, and whose score doesn't always take into account things like the specific comparative tone of the ending), while Episode Ignis rates an average of 7.0 (the score again mostly focusing on things like gameplay rather than tone), that it invalidates everything I've said above, since I don't have hard sources on hand for every tweet or social media comment I've seen regarding people being softer on Episode Ignis's ending or disliking Dawn of the Future's approach.
I don't think that makes for an effective counterargument as YMMV does not mandate sources in general, and Dawn of the Future's perception outside of GR tends to attract a lot of negativity in its own right, not to mention disregarding said potential inherent selection bias (the people posting reviews were probably accepting enough of the controversies around the book to read through the whole thing). The reviews themselves on GR are variable with many positive scores criticizing the ending, and many reviews that praise the ending having mediocre scores on the whole.
None of the arguments they've provided contradict the initial point (that people's opinions of Episode Ignis became less hostile once Dawn of the Future was announced) of nor justify the deletion of the entry describing how people's hostility to a certain alternate ending seen as overly happy, dipped off once another, even happier ending showed up. Especially since the edit reason for deleting it is focused mostly on arguing why Alternate Ending #1 is badly written and any talk of audience reactions is more about pointing out that a portion of the audience exist who liked the other newer, even happier ending, even though the original entry never claimed otherwise or to speak for the entirety of the fandom.
Update: They are now accusing me of outright lying and being biased in favor of one ending for disputing their deletions, despite the major issues here having to do with a lack of, followed by questionably irrelevant removal reasons in what is a potential edit war. Update 2: They've taken it back after I explained myself further.
Edited by AlleyOopopenAnother user removing my WMG entries Videogame
Just now, ttuser023 removed
some content I added
to my own WMG assumptions in WMG.MultiVersus, while at the same time adding an assumption of their own.
As far as I'm aware (since the only content concerning about WMG entries that I know thus far is the description on the main Wild Mass Guessing page), all assumptions should be welcomed regardless of how legitimate and/or outlandish it sounds, unless it doesn't seem too much like a proper theory (which even then seems to be a hard condition to reach in WMG entries). This should imply that while you can remove assumptions you had added yourself beforehand, removing those of other users wouldn't be really allowed.
Aside from sending a PM to ttuser023 so that they can be aware of this query (which I've already done), what should I do in this situation?
Edited by Inky100openWanting to avoid an edit war, and rudeness in a blank edit reason Videogame
On Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, Ukokira removed
this edit...
- False Flag Operation: Ultimately, this is what the Red Herrings surrounding the Red Samurai amount to. Despite it seemingly being an ally if not Lou or Deadman assisting Sam from beyond the grave, it turns out to be Higgs screwing with Sam, luring him into a false sense of security so he can nab Tomorrow right from under his nose.
... with the reasoning of "This literally isn't true. It's Deadman in the Red Samurai suit up until Higgs hijacks in the DHV when Deadman is explicitly outside of the Samurai body."
I added
back in on my read of "Except Deadman himself says it's not him when the Red Samurai/Higgs appears again in the Magellan. Realistic chiral holograms exist, and if it WAS Deadman he would've cleared it up at some point."
Ukokira then removes
it again with the reasoning of "He is literally talking about that one specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body" (although for some reason, the removal shows
up twice
), followed by two null edits with the edit reasons of "He is literally talking
about thatone specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body We LITERALLY SEE DEADMAN in the suit. He does a whole "we will always be connected speech". It is CLEARLY not a Chiralgram there. How are you being this dense???" and "Deadman being the suit is also in an area
that's explicitly outside of the chiral network. It physically can't be a "realistic" chiralgram".
I'd like to add the False Flag Operation back in, but I want to avoid an edit war. My reading of the whole situation is that Higgs could easily bypass the chiral network in part because of how long he spent on the Beach and being stuck there would've given him some different powers, and thus allow him to puppet the Red Samurai with a chiral hologram of Deadman overlaying the face, and that it wouldn't be out of character of Higgs to deliberately mislead the protagonists. The other reasoning is that Deadman never outright confirms that he was ever masquerading as the Red Samurai, because why would he, what with his heart having been donated to Heartman, and the rest of Deadman's body would've been more than likely incinerated to avoid the chance of a voidout.
openEdit war on Kingdom Come Deliverance YMMV page Videogame
On December 22nd, Troper The Living Drawing removed these tropes
from Kingdom Come Deliverance's YMMV page with the edit reason of "Removed several examples that, while potentially valid, are very complainy. Have not played the game and have little knowledge on it so if you have, please feel free to rewrite the removed examples to me more neutral.":
- Archery is probably the fakest of all "difficult" things in the game. There is no aiming dot visible, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. In fact, the game simply turns off the aiming dot when bows are drawn with a crudely written script. There is absolutely nothing preventing players from simply marking or memorizing the dot on display and then have perfect aim, regardless of skill, bow type or distance. The absurd sway of bows for first five levels of the skill only adds to how fake it really is, because if the aiming dot is marked (or displayed with a console command), the aim remains perfect despite displaying sway all over the screen.
- The game never really informs how to train, so if natural progress is applied with the plot progression, Henry is going to be constantly and heavily under skilled. However, spending just 30 minutes with Captain Bernhard and whacking him with random Button Mashing is enough to train Henry into formidable fighter, raising half of his stats and generally turning the whole game into a cakewalk with most of enemies unable to even hit back.
- Each and every camp full of bandits can be cleared with ease during night-time, by carefully picking them one by one. Not only does it allow the player to skip otherwise tough (or outright impossible) encounters, it's considerably easier to do than just trying to face few brigands on your own in a sword fight. Of course the game never informs about how stealth or stealth kills work, so unless player figures it out by applying common sense, good luck with all those encounters when trying to face bandits in straight-out combat.
- The entire barter system relies on Henry's relationship with the vendor: he has to lower his bids for a long time to gain enough favour to get better prices (and better bids) in the future. Cue miller Peshek, who via finishing his quest line gains 100% favour. And since he's miller, he buys stolen goods. His merchant list is also scripted to pay premium for a lot of things regardless of favour. And if one particular vendor is constantly fed new items, their cash reserve increases during restocking. Eventually Peshek can easily carry 50 thousand groschen, buying whatever and offering decent prices at that. Just don't expect the game explaining any of this at any point.
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
- Misaimed "Realism": The game was heavily marketed under "super-realism" flag, but this backfires badly at certain game mechanics, especially since how uneven the application of said "realism" is, breaking the immersion entirely rather than enhancing it.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- Said saddle bags have a limited load they can carry, but there is nothing preventing Henry from overloading himself and then simply get on horseback.
- The weapons seem to be made out of foil and raw copper, that's how quickly they wear out. They also never really break down, just reach the state of "disrepair", meaning a simple debuff to damage. And you would grind any given blade into nothingness when using grindstone so often as Henry does.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- That One Level: Needle in A Haystack. Working with the Neuhof bandits, Henry is tasked with infiltrating a monastery in order to track a straggler down, kill him and bring proof to the bandits that the target is dead. What follows is allegedly the most annoying quest in the whole game according to fans. First of all, it's a No-Gear Level, so you can't bring your weapons inside to kill the target. Second, since you're a novice, you're at the bottom of the monk hierarchy, meaning that you live under the authority of the hated Circators, monks who are supposed to keep order in the monastery and punish monks who break the rules. However, since you are being tasked with killing someone in the monastery, you WILL have to break many rules with your time in there, specially if you choose to do the sidequests that the monastery offer, which involves ludicrous amounts of lockpicking and pickpocketing, sneaking in and out of the monastery constantly, missing out on your schedule (and getting punished for that), getting lost and much more. Oh, and did we mention that all of this is done without a single Savior Schnapps in your inventory?
- Thankfully, the quest can be skipped, but it'll give you its "bad ending". There is an ornamental dagger hidden under a paving stone on the balcony next to the dormitory. If you don't mind a bit of collateral damage you can murder all the novices in their sleep, grab the spare set of keys from the pantry and escape within five minutes of the first night without needing any preplanning - apart from needing the Stealth Kill perk. Yes, it skips the whole quest and yes, it gives you a bad ending for it, but admit it, it's smart and it's understandable to do it.
- However, should Henry be a competent thief-type, the entire quest goes from That One Level to the best part of the entire game, as the main obstacle - lack of gear - is meaningless when all doors can be opened and circators avoided with stealth. It still requires overcoming various challenges, but in engaging and simply fun way.
No less than 30 minutes later, troper Stanisz added all of them back and commented them out
with the reason "If you expect people to correct the tone, how about leaving them content to correct, rather than just cutting it?" Around a week later, troper C Dan Red removed the commenting symbol and made the FakeDifficulty entry public with no edit reason.
Seeing Stanisz's reason, I decided to take a look at it myself and edited the entries
, with my own edit reason being "Grammar fixes, removed some entries (Miller seems more like Game-Breaker, Stealth is explained in the codex, and others are not that bad or seem to just be complaining), and tried to adjust the tone a tad to be more neutral." One of those removed entries was this, since most of it seemed to be unsalvageable complaining and one-sided:
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
Hours later, Stanisz added the above entry back
with the reason of "Come on, mate..."
openUnintentionallyUnsympathetic miuse and Scrappy misuse. Videogame
Someone added this to the Fire Emblem Fates ymmv page:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: The reception of Peri was mixed, but mostly negative for this reason. They attempted to make her a Sympathetic Murderer, but at the same time didn't do enough to actually make her sympathetic for most people. Her backstory that set her up to be this way is briefly summarized in one of her supports and barely acknowledged at all otherwise, her positive traits just aren't enough to redeem her for being a serial killer, almost all of her Character Development is mentioned in her endings to have taken place after the game is over, and most of her darkest aspects are Played for Laughs in ways that feel out of place in the game and leave much of the audience more uncomfortable than amused. This also has the side effect of making Xander look kind of clueless to some people, since there is very little indication that he's even aware of the sorts of things Peri does, despite Peri herself seeing nothing wrong with it, not trying at all to hide it, and talking openly about it to almost everyone.
I removed it and cited that this was someone blantly trying to scapegoat Peri as a scrappy using this, citing that this person was ignoring several aspects of the character. This was done by Gravityman. Two days later, user bigbossdiego readded it, and also added her as a scrappy, which is something that has been done before and has been continually cited as not being a valid entry.
They also said this: "A character having fans does not, I repeat, does not preclude them from this status. Peri is hated by the fans to an almost absurd degree. There are entire reddit threads about how much the fandom hates her (https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/7moa1p/hated_characters_peri/)
. The removal of her Scrappy status was also unwarranted as well in light of this information. I also dislike the entry on Never Live It Down for the reason that it both downplays the problems with picking Peri as a retainer, and ignores the issues with Xander's own justifications for it. If you want to discuss this further, please respond to my post in the discussion page."
Since this is clearly just trying to bash a Base-Breaking Character, I am going to remove it, especially since using places like reddit is not allowed as a source. Want to get opinions as well so this doesn't become an issue again.
- Edit: Also, not sure if this is true, but I believe this qualifies as an edit war on the second users part, but I'm not sure.
openEdit War on Fallout 76 Videogame
I'm finding myself in an edit war on Fallout 76. A troper recently put the Doomed by Canon trope on the page, stating the Vault 76's mission to rebuild America in the aftermath of the nuclear war "obviously' failed based on how much of a bombed-out hell hole the Capital Wasteland of Washington D.C. and Boston Commonwealth are 185 years later.
- Vault 76's mission to restore America is obviously doomed to fail from the start, since the east coast is still a Crapsack World 185 years later."
Here's the thing though: this game is a prequel and a spinoff from the main series, but there is literally NO MENTION of the end results of Vault 76's efforts anywhere else in the entire franchise. There's no mention that it's located in West Virginia, or anything else. There's only a computer terminal in Fallout 3 that only mentions that Vault 76 exists.
According to the Doomed by Canon's own Playing With page, if something hasn't been mentioned in the main installments, then it counts as an Averted Trope, and thus should not be mentioned.
"Averted:
- Bob wasn't mentioned in "The Main Tropes", so it doesn't matter what his fate is."
Or, to put it into context:
"Vault 76's efforts aren't mentioned in the rest of the Fallout franchise, so it doesn't matter what its fate is."
The game hasn't even come out yet. It'll be released in November, so nobody actually knows if the game's main storyline will address any actual results from the efforts of the players. To say that they failed because of the Crapsack World that previous (but further down the timeline) installments are with literally zero mention of this game is ridiculous.
Edited by DRCEQopenEdit War in Super Smash Bros. Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros&more=t
Here's a courtesy link.
The troper Dragon Ranger keeps changing the words that describe Dragon Quest's Hero away from noting the "characters" represented. Officially on Twitter, Sakurai does mention he uses specific designs for the characters, while Smash itself does not actually use anything but Hero. We however don't have a release of the character at all. Do note more than one person is involved.
Relevant links;
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23510343
Changed but gave an edit reason as to why by Dragon Ranger. This should've been brought to the Discussion however.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23352709
Changed without an edit reason at all by Senior Cornholio.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23275323
This was beforehand by Dragon Ranger, also with no edit reason. Meaning that he didn't think to actually take it to Discussion at any point. I do not know if he has edit warred before.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23271822
Edited to input the names, by Ause.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=VideoGame.SuperSmashBros#edit23270942
Dragon Ranger is the first one to put the line. Which makes some of this jarring. This is more protecting the article than actually making a proper attempt at discussion.
openI'm not sure where to put this? Videogame
Mother 3 has a Player Punch entry that is way too long for its own good.
- Player Punch: A lot.
- In Chapter 1, in a series built around the protagonist usually having a close relationship with their mother during their adventure, it goes against the series expectations that Hinawa, Lucas's mother, is killed very violently.
- You then play the first chapter as Hinawa's husband, Flint. Upon finding out about her death, he goes into a terrifying Heroic BSoD, lashing out at other people in the village until he has to be knocked unconscious in order to be subdued. You then get the lovely experience of becoming Tazmily Jail's first prisoner.
- Claus, Lucas's twin brother, then goes out into the mountains to try and avenge Hinawa. He fails.
- As it turns out, the animal responsible for killing Hinawa was a Drago, a perfectly harmless creature Lucas used to be friends with. It's been "reconstructed" by a strange group of men wearing pig masks, making it aggressive and mindless.
- Oh, and who's in charge of all these Pigmasks? Why, Porky Minch, naturally.
- In Chapter 2, you play as a thief named Duster. And, let's just say, his father is not very satisfied by his thieving abilities.
- In Chapter 3, you play as a monkey named Salsa. He's getting routinely abused by a member of the Pigmask army named Fassad. He spends the chapter being forced to help them with their evil deeds, since his girlfriend is being held captive for leverage.
- In Chapter 4, three years have gone by. Let's just say, one of the biggest RPG cliches of all time has been... horrifyingly subverted.
- Then, at the end of the chapter, when the DCMC sing their goodbyes to "Lucky". It's for the greater good, but you'll feel really terrible for finally getting your last party member.
- Chapter 6. Lucas chases Hinawa's ghost through a field of sunflowers, which are associated with her. It ends with you essentially making Lucas attempt suicide.
- In Chapter 7, you find out about these Plot Coupons called the Seven Needles. Only Lucas and the commander of the Pigmask army, The Masked Man, are capable of pulling them. If Lucas pulls them, the world will be reborn anew and everything will be good and pure. If the Masked Man pulls them, the world will cease to exist.
- And, in that chapter, you manage to only pull three. The enemy ends up getting the rest of them.
- Then there's Tanetane Island. After washing up on the shore during a wreck, your party is weak, starving, and incapable of healing themselves. Since you lost all your items, you have no choice but to eat some funky-looking mushrooms off the ground. Let's just say, it ends very, very badly.
- Then, when you get back home, the town is almost completely empty. Everybody's gone to the big city, save for a few individuals.
- In Chapter 8, we meet up with a fellow named Leder. He was the bell ringer in Tazmily Village, and he never spoke a word to anybody. Now that Tazmily is gone and he has no other purpose in life, he reveals that pretty much everything you thought you knew about the world is a lie. The human race destroyed this world long, long before you started playing this game, and the tiny island you've spent the game on is the only habitable place left on Earth. There is hope, but now the entire world is resting squarely on your shoulders, and the odds aren't looking very promising.
- Then you meet the Pig King himself, Porky. He essentially gives the entire human species a "Reason You Suck" Speech. And considering what you just found out, it'll strike a few chords.
- Hey, remember that Masked Man guy? The one who's been pulling all the other needles and striking you down at any given opportunity, hellbent on bringing the world to an end? It's Claus. Lucas's brother.
- You can't defeat Porky. During the fight, he reveals that his constant abuse of time travel has rendered him immortal. At the end of the fight, he locks himself in a machine called the Absolutely Safe Capsule. However, it's revealed that, once he's in there, he can never get out. Ever.
- The final battle in the game is against the Masked Man. It may just be the most heartbreaking "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight ever executed. With your party knocked unconscious, leaving you alone, you cannot fight him. A battle implies a conflict on both sides, but Lucas can't bring himself to hurt his brother. All you can do is guard against his attacks, while a terrifying boss theme that rivals Giygas's in intensity assaults your ears. Forcing you to just try and survive blasts from your own iconic attack, slowly watch as your brother gets weaker until he can't even damage you anymore. And it ends with Claus using your always-dependable Franklin Badge that protects you to deliberately blast lightning so it will deflect back at him, with every intention of committing child suicide. All you can do is hear him apologize for his mistakes as he says goodbye... so he... he can be with his mother...
- The ending. There are no words to say, just the ending.
It's just listing the entire game. I'm not doubting that the game pulls punches on the player, but I think we should probably just have highlights of this item, rather every single time the game has a depressing moment.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenOnce again, a non-existant work wonk Videogame
I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
- “Paper Mario: The Origami Nazi”. Explanation King Olly’s plan for getting rid of all the Paper Toads involves him wishing via the 1,000 Crane Technique that all the Paper Toads go away forever since they share the same face and are poisoning his “perfect world” similar to Adolf Hitler.
And
- Pandering to the Base: While many critics and fans alike praise the game for being a Surprisingly Improved Sequel to its predecessors, a few such as the Villain Army and its Supreme Leader, accuse it of pandering to the people who hated Paper Bowser and his Koopa Troop by having King Olly be the main villain throughout the entire game, while Paper Bowser doesn’t steal back the spotlight from him, though it could just be shock over the eradication of the Paper Toads via the 1,000 Crane Technique. Hell, a review of the game
even said this while bashing the game for holding back Nintendo's development of Mario And Luigi Paper Jam 2, despite its 8.5 review rating.
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.
openTrying to Avoid an Edit War Videogame
Recently, I modified a couple of entries on Dragon Age – Anders, removing the The Extremist Was Right entry and reformatting the information and moving it to Well-Intentioned Extremist. Before I did this, I took it to the Is This An Example
thread, where I was mostly ignored despite posting several times. Now, I previously did the same thing for the same entry on the main page for TEWR after I got agreement from the same thread that it wasn't an example, so despite lack of replies, I thought I was okay.
Shortly after I did this, Asherinka reverted the entry back and edited it to have more neutral wording (or tried to at least). The topic for the Dragon Age fandom is major Flame Bait and Anders himself has a Broken Base, so I'm trying not to let this devolve into an argument over whether or not he was right.
My big hang up on TEWR vs WIE is that I believe they are mutually exclusive tropes. And, for Anders, I do not believe he meets the requirements for TEWR.
- The Extremist Was Right:
- Terrible as Anders' actions were, a lot of supplementary material suggests that escalating the mage/Templar conflict to open war was the right thing to do, since the status quo only weakened the mages' position. The events of Inquisition can further cement this idea; if Leliana is named Divine, one of her reforms to the Chantry is the dissolving of the Circle system, granting the mages their freedom and creating widespread mage acceptance, giving Anders (and the rebel mages who agreed with his points, if not his actions) everything he wanted. Even the endings that see the Circles rebuilt come with some major reformations.
- The flavor text of the Magehunter shield in Inquisition tells of a previous misuse of the Right of Annulment. In 3:09 Towers, twenty-five years after the Right was first granted, the Circle of Magi in Antiva City was annulled to cover up the fact that its Knight-Captain was a serial killer who murdered over a hundred mages out of pure bigotry. While the Seekers eventually hunted him down and punished him, they assisted the Templars in covering up the incident, leaving the rest of the Circles completely ignorant of the truth, and there is no mention of them punishing the Knight-Commander for Annulling a Circle under false pretenses. Given that background chatter in the second game reveals that Meredith had gone over Elthina's head and petitioned the Divine for the Right, it paints a very clear picture of what might have happened to the Gallows if Anders had not provoked Meredith into jumping the gun instead of waiting for the Divine's permission.
Hello83433: I'm a bit concerned about [this particular TEWR example] in general, because it relies a lot on player perception and it seems to be used as an Audience Reaction, because there's hardly anything in-universe that is justifying the actions taken. The trope itself says the people whom everyone thought were completely right and in-universe it's noted that many, including mages, denounce Anders' actions. The supporting material (i.e. comics and supplementary novels) also have that the character is dead, because some events that occur do not occur in a universe where he lives.
Overall, this seems more like someone trying to convince others that the actions were right, when they moreso fall under Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters (and he's already listed under). Thoughts?
Reply from Afterward: Sorry I haven't said this before, but I think there's enough negative reactions to Anders' actions in-universe that he doesn't qualify (and while the Mage situation in Dragon Age was already pretty bad before Anders blew up the Chantry, there's no real evidence that it got better, just that the conflict became open), although I'm not super familiar with the inner workings of the trope.
Hello83433: Reposting because I think it got lost in the page transition. After cutting Anders' example from The Extremist Was Right, it was added to his character page. The first bullet point text is exactly the same as TEWR, and the second point is diving deep into begging the question and slippery slope territory, but I wanted to bring the full example here again just in case.
[Example In Question]
Reply from nrjxll: Honestly, I think there's a seed of a valid example buried in there, in that Inquisition does pretty clearly show that Anders's broader goal of dragging these festering problems out in the open led to necessary reforms that probably weren't going to happen otherwise. What it doesn't validate is the method he did that by. (Just speaking personally, one of the few points I found myself majorly agreeing with Vivienne - who I rather disliked on the whole - on was that tying the cause of mage independence to a terrorist attack that killed hundreds of people was a huge PR self-own.)
BTW, the definition of The Extremist Was Right is distinctly not helpful here. I don't see anything about other characters in a story needing to say as much to qualify an example the way you originally cited, but the description's not all that long in general.
Hello83433: I was going off of Laconic and the first sentence of the description, although I agree it could be written clearer. The heavy disagreement on his methods is what puts him out of TEWR territory for me. Although, now that I'm looking at it, would it be a better fit for Well-Intentioned Extremist? Anders seems to fit under the first and/or third types (the problem is the means and/or consequences) just based on in-universe reactions to his "solution".
I don't want this OP to be too long, so just to sum up I don't believe the example fits The Extremist Was Right primarily due to in-universe backlash against Anders and his actions. I suppose moving it to YMMV might be an option, but to avoid an edit war I'm asking here to get a consensus one way or the other.
Edited by Hello83433openBiased Troper (only in regards to Paper Mario, though) Videogame
DarkChirano
seems to have a hateboner for the recent entries of Paper Mario (that is to say, Sticker Star and Color Splash), often being quick to put in information that, while factual, attacks the game, or being biased on the YMMV pages. Although some of it is older, almost all of it is out against the games:
- From early 2016, calling Sticker Star an Obvious Beta for interesting reasons:
Obvious Beta: While the game doesn't suffer any intrinsic technical issues, several basic features such as a secondary stat/meter (which actually was in a beta) or a unique reward type for defeating enemies are not present. Action Command prompts are also missing in action, meaning the player won't know Things have action commands. The programming behind Kersti's advice is also incredibly simplistic, only giving advice by activated event flags, compared to the first two Paper Mario's guides giving advice by the room. This may have to do with the developers scrapping the game twice.
- Attacking the current developers (who made the aforementioned games) as well as producer Kensuke Tanabe on YMMV.Paper Mario (bolded is what they added):
Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the Mario And Luigi series, so there are some serious concerns that, as long as the creative team of the eighth gen games stay in charge, the dork age will literally never end.As has been explained many times, the Toad species have become The Scrappy to the Paper Mario fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with no unique names and no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits. In addition, Toads are almost the only NPCs in both Sticker Star and Color Splash, greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of NPCs that the previous games had. This isn't helped by producer Kensuke Tanabe thinking Toads are the only usable friendly species, nor the fact the other current producers and directors also believe this to be true.
- Adding in more hate for Tanabe as well as the devs on YMMV.Paper Mario Color Splash (once again, bold is a new addition):
An interview
with Kensuke Tanabe revealed that Miyamoto was responsible for the lack of original characters, which was one of the major complaints about the game. However, this same interview also revealed Tanabe went to Miyamoto near-immediately after becoming producer for Color Splash, rather than Miyamoto coming to him. There's also the detail he never mentioned trying to negotiate the character restriction down, even if he couldn't outright say "No".
Risa Tabata also got a fair bit of scorn, getting the same treatment as Miyamoto. This is mainly thanks to the infamous interview with GameXplain, where most answers were either really vague such as "I don’t know if I want to say a proper story–but we have a story" or saying that since there's Mario & Luigi, there's "no need for RPG elements", which caused a massive Internet Backdraft. But at the end of the day, she's simply an assistant producer and not the lead developer, and thus she doesn't deserve some of the hatred she got beyond that interview. It's also worth stating she's mentioned Tanabe's influence a few times.The game itself started development very shortly after the release of Sticker Star, so by the time fans began savaging the revamped gameplay style, Intelligent Systems had put too much work into Color Splash to scrap it and start over. Of course, that in turn leads to the question of post-release patches for mechanic tweaks, such as the ScrappyMechanics mentioned below. - Pointing out that almost every character introduced in Sticker Star "doesn't actually have a name-name" on Characters.Paper Mario and calling it ironic that there are only 5 Toads in Color Splash with real names.
- As stated by lalalei2001, blaming Kensuke Tanabe and Rise Tabata for the whole "making Mario & Luigi the de-facto Mario RPG series" mess on YMMV.Mario And Luigi.
- Continuing the hatred of Tanabe and claiming that he thinks Toads are the only friendly species from the main series on Critical Research Failure.
* The reason why the 8th gen Paper Mario games only have Toads as a recurring friendly species is because producer Kensuke Tanabe thinks they're the only allies Mario has in the main series, and has encouraged his fellow staff to think likewise. Even a quick glance towards early gameplay of several main series games quickly demonstrate the utter falsehood of this belief, with species such as Piantas, Nokis, Jibberjays and Whittles, among many others.
However, their non-Paper Mario related edits seem to have been made by a reasonable person, so I'm not sure what's up, which is why I brought it here.
Edited by MegaMarioMan

So i was reading the YMMV page for the cancelled Video Game/Hyenas, and i came across the following example of memetic mutation:
The part "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. " really bugged me, this whole sentence felt really weird. That feels terribly specific and it's overall just a clunky piece of writing.
So i decided to investigate on google for "hyenas "join the ack" " and my suspicious were validated, all of the results containing the phrase where from Kiwi Farms and 4chan, with true context of this "Ack" that the troper pretends it's a "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making" was actually a mockery of the suicide of transgender individuals, one other example of "join the ack" that i found was an steam user making a community post with this as the title and going full transphobe.
Now, the point i'm trying to make is that based on my research, there is absolutely no way KB Zheng 123 didn't know what the context of that was about, which means they intentionally and knowingly added a transphobic joke to the site and tried to pass off as a regular joke, and that requires action by the moderators, as there should be zero tolerance for transphobia and transphobic users in this site.