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openHostile edit reasons from troper. Videogame
On 1/01 Mr Heroes added the following meme to the Fate/Grand Order meme page:
- Muramasa is ShirouExplanation While he takes Shirou's form, Muramasa isn't Shirou. A running gag is having Muramasa mistaken/called Shirou, which is popular with fan artists.
On 1/04, Rebel Falcon removed it with an unusually hostile edit reason spread across a few minutes:
- "For the last time, Muramasa is Shiro. Muramasa is a Pseudo-Servant using Shiro as his host, and his bio quite literally says that Shiro's personality is the dominant one. He doesn't simply look like Shiro, he is Shiro."
- Saying Muramasa isn't Shiro is like saying Ishtar isn't Rin, or Jaguar Warrior isn't Taiga, or Ganesha isn't Jinako. It's literally their bodies and personalities, its just some have themselves in the drivers seat, some have the spirit, and some fuse together. Bottom line though, Muramasa is fucking Shiro Emiya.
Now in the first instance, this was done because it appears Rebel may have submitted their edit early, cutting off the message as the first of three edits has this edit reason: For the last time, ''Muramasa is Shiro".
However, the third entry was made after the second, more detailed one, and was close to ten minutes later. The meme itself is probably fine being removed but the edit reason is very hostile and leaves me concerned since this is something I've noticed seems to be a recent trend of there's.
For example, on the RWBY page, they readded an entry on 1/03 that was removed with the following edit reason: "Don't remove shit without giving a reason."
I've not had much interaction with Rebel except for once but I wanted to mention it since this hostility is concerning. Not to suspend them concern, more so just a "Hey, everything okay?" kind of concern.
Edited by keyblade333openOn Scorpider77 Videogame
Scorpider77 seems like a good troper in all respects, except one; he seems to have this wonk over Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam 2 and keeps talking about how everyone is clamoring for it and linking to its page.
There's just one problem: the game doesn't exist. While his non Mario edits are fine, anything pertaining to Mario (Bowser Jr.'s Journey, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and YMMV.Mario And Luigi Paper Jam, and YMMV.Mario Plus Rabbids Sparks Of Hope, among others) keeps having him throw in references to this nonexistent game, culminating in him making a since-cut page for it on the 11th of this month.
He also DMed me a link to a tweet that allegedly shows the proof of this clamoring (along with saying the game exists and Nintendo hasn't found the time to reveal it, stated with no proof whatsoever), except it's an analytics link - which can only be seen by the person who made the tweet. So he's shilling both himself and a nonexistent game to the detriment of factual information.
resolved Transphobic edit reason Videogame
mrluntishysterical removed
the Cross-Dressing Voices entry on Trivia.SuperMarioBrosWonder, citing that Giselle Fernandez is "biologically female", though Giselle themself is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns.
I reverted the entry already and sent them a notifier before writing this query, but I have a feeling this may turn into a possible agenda in the long run.
openAssistance in resolving/preventing an edit war on Creator/QuintonFlynn Videogame
Bringing this here since the page's discussion forum doesn't get a lot of traffic.
To provide a bit of context, back in November 2020 images and audio of Voice Actor Quinton Flynn sexually harassing female fans surfaced on social media followed up by multiple accusations from many other women. This led to Flynn losing upcoming roles as documented on the Role Ending Misdemeanor Video Games page. Six months Flynn had sued one of his accusing for stalking him and got a court victory over her, then claimed on Twitter that a judge had found him not guilty of the accusations. This is pretty blatantly a lie; as the plaintiff his guilt or innocence was never under any consideration, he was only suing one woman for stalking him, she defended herself which is a good sign she didn't receive the best legal council, and her being guilty of stalking him does not mean he can't be guilty of harassing her. However some of his fans have taken this as proof that all accusations against him are false and he is 100% innocent since she had to delete her tweets on the matter. So Flynn portraying the decision as him being found not guilty is dishonest and a bit suspect.
Now onto the actual matter; over on his creator page when the judge's decision was brought down Captain Tedium deleted the section on the accusations on April 22 2021 with the following edit reason:
"The sexual allegations have recently been debunked. https://mobile.twitter.com/JasmineDBZking/status/1384605216650059780
Reinstate the detail of what happened in November 2020 only if the proof of Quinton Flynn's innocence is itself debunked. Or if this incident has ended up affecting his career anyway."
On July 4th The Extractor added in a modified entry with the accusations, court victory and the loss of roles with the following edit reasons
"A statement that he alone released, that no one else corroborated, that still contradicts a shitload of visual and audio evidence doesn't remotely absolve him of anything. It also doesn't change the fact that he's effectively been fired from everything and is yet to be re-hired on anything. I'll amend this part so it's more objective and less "hostile", but it stays."
On the 20th I amended the entry to remove the reference to the court case as I felt the way it was written would lead someone to an incorrect assumption of what happened and that to properly explain and provide context would take up a lot of words that in my opinion was largely irrelevant to the point.
There were no further edits to the page until November 6th when Tropers/shaynaynaynot edited the page to add "In April 2021, Flynn tweeted that the accusations came from a stalker
, and he was found not guilty." They also added the same to the REM subpage.
Now what's been added is objectively false (as the plaintiff it is quite literally impossible for him to be found not guilty), but given as this could be described as either the first, second or fourth edit on the matter depending on your definition I'm concerned that reverting it would be considered an edit war, and given that only four of us have been involved in editing there is little hope of getting a consensus. So I'm seeking further input from people who haven't been involved so far.
openQuestion regarding a Dethroning moment Videogame
Kibchi has added a DethroningMoment.Video Games moment that I felt got way too personal to qualify:
- Kibchi here. My current moment for me is how Nintendo handled the casting for Three Houses. First they get Edelgard a new voice actor (and don't even tell us why,) and then they replace Byleth's with a total novice over Tumblr drama. Chris confessed to a lot of abuse, (that happened because people decided to emotionally abuse him badly enough he was suicidal,) and violated his NDA (by talking in a closed circle of friends, apparently) so they replaced him with this guy who's barely old enough to drink. This lack of transparency and their desperate cling to their image is utterly disgusting. The Nintendo Ninjas have lost their right to call themselves ninja- Only the most despicable scum would kick a suicidal man when he's down. This attempt to whitewash their image is just making it worse. I'd pre-ordered the game before it happened, so I couldn't just cancel my order on release day, but I'm not buying any DLC. Also, I'm not updating the game. The Day One patch can go fuck itself.
This DMOS has nothing to do with the game itself and kinda constitute as a real life example yet the troper readded it back despite being previously removed twice due to not being a fictional moment.
Edited by Loekman3openTroper with linking issues and a shipping bias Videogame
Mysticalmagic 483 often edits on the Sonic the Hedgehog pages, and I've found myself having to correct their edits from time to time.
- Here
they don't properly link an example.
- Another
example of not using link brackets.
- Word cruft
In addition, they have such an obvious shipping bias. They are a fan of the Sonic/Blaze pairing. They are entitled to that opinion, because this is the internet, and everyone is allowed to have their own opinion even if I don't agree with it.
What they AREN'T entitled to is deleting mentions of the Silver/Blaze pairing because it goes against their preferred ship.
- Here
they take off details of Blaze's Ship Tease entry.
- Here
they delete a point saying Sonic is a Shipper on Deck for Silver/Blaze.
- Here
they remove a segment where both Silver and Blaze blush at being called a cute couple.
- Here
they insist that the pairing Silver and Amy "makes more sense" (no hate to anyone who ships this, but in canon Amy has a Single-Target Sexuality for Sonic).
- Here
they remove another point about her being close to Silver.
Permission to revert these edits?
Edited by deerhornsaresoprettyopenWe've Got a Scrappy Problem Videogame
About a month ago, I deleted all the entries for The Scrappy on Criminal Case because they were clearly meant to be hated and hated badly. Here it is for reference:
- The Scrappy:
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
, Miriam Young won the game's "Most Annoying Character" title (by a very huge margin) due to her cold and domineering personality, and her cruel treatment towards Amy (who, by contrast, was voted as the fan favorite). Not only that, several fans have gone as far as saying that she should be in jail instead of Duncan even though he's the Night Walker.
- Albert Tesla also qualifies, for abandoning his son, thinking himself to be Pacific Bay's God, nearly destroying it and killing fan-favorite Frank Knight when he attempts to stop him. He's even voted the game's "Most Annoying Character" of 2015.
- Sarah Bennet was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2016 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
. Rightfully so since she nearly killed Jack, killed Dupont and Natasha (regardless of her affiliation with SOMBRA, she's still Marina's mom), and nearly caused World War III.
- Horatio Rochester was voted as the "Most Annoying Character" on the 2017 Criminal Case Wiki Awards, owing to his attempt to fully control Concordia as a city-state and abolish press freedom. Moreover, unlike Justin Lawson, who was ultimately a Well-Intentioned Extremist who Jumped Off The Slippery Slope, Horatio has no redeeming qualities and is motivated by selfish and petty reasons.
- In the 2014 Criminal Case Wiki Awards
I discovered only today that three days later, user pizzasoda66 added them all back. Their reasons were, and I quote, "The description of this trope is "The fans hate this character for some reason.". Just because they're supposed to be disliked doesn't mean they're not scrappies. Why do you think they were voted as the most annoying character?"
Whether or not a character who's meant to be hated can qualify as a Scrappy anyway is a mug I don't wanna chug right now, but their description of The Scrappy as a trope is way off. It's the given explanation on the laconic page, which feels like an artifact of the past, and should be changed to add the qualifier "against the intentions of the creator". Because that being the case, again, none of these assholes are unintentionally hated.
I would go back and say this, but I'd rather not get hit with an Edit War accusation and edit banned for it. What do you guys think?
resolved Troper camping on the Sonic Adventure 2 pages. Videogame
Troper L Fisher has been cutting multiple edits that portray GUN (one of the antagonists of Sonic Adventure 2) exactly as negatively as the game itself does, and making edits that partially exonerate them for committing mass murder ("but the Black Arms!"); they also tend to cut any mention that GUN was implied to be framing Sonic. While all this has been going on for a while, my personal last straw was them doing both of these recently, reducing the "Frame-Up" entry to a single sentence that isn't even accurate (Shadow didn't frame Sonic, at least not intentionally).
Not only is it extremely difficult to make edits about GUN on these pages, but I feel that this is treading uncomfortably close to apologia for real-world atrocities.
resolved Cutting Oddity RPG pages Videogame
Folks, it's time to face facts: Oddity is never coming out. It's been five years since the initial announcement trailer with no major updates afterwards, over 17 years since the project started development as Mother 4, and the hype for this game has all but dried up. Since all of the Mother 4 pre-release material has been made obsolete and mostly deleted from the internet, we only have one trailer and a Twitter page that is barely updated to go off of.
When I did a second clean-up (the first clean-up was mostly to remove gushing) removing anything that went off of outdated (pre-rebrand) material or Word of God (which isn't allowed), there was barely anything left. On the Characters page alone, many of the folders were blank and that was before I touched them.
Also worth noting that there were a ton of commented out examples on the Characters page which I removed (there were also a bunch on the main page too before I cut those during my first clean-up). Commenting out examples on an unreleased work in anticipation for the work's release is also not allowed.
Yes, there is gameplay footage in the trailer but it barely tells us anything other than "it's a Mother-inspired RPG." Not much of a premise, and certainly not enough to warrant a page, especially when no information regarding the story, setting, and characters have been revealed afterwards. Literally the only information we have about the setting is "It takes place in a small town in 70s America." There are ten tropes on the main page but half of them are about the Modern Mind enemy instead of the game itself or the overall setting of the game. There's no release date, and at this rate there never will be.
Taking all of this into account I feel there is no longer a viable work page. I propose a cut of Oddity's pages and the material in Oddity's main page be moved to Release Date-Less Work Descriptions in the event the game does get a release.
Edited by supernintendo128open Troper vandalizin’ character page. Videogame
Prest Otron has been tamperin’ Five Nights at Freddy's: First Generation, specifically the quotes. They changed them from in-game quotes to attacks on the FNAF fandom. Here is an example:
From:
To:
Dunno if they have been on other pages.
Edited by DelibirdaopenEdit war and possesiveness of Nikke articles Videogame
Troper True Shadow 97 has has engaged in edit war over people changing edits they have made on entries about the player character of video game Goddess of Victory: NIKKE.
They have left comments in the articles that clearly show they feel possesive over the way the player character is presented.
The first time I noticed this was with this edit:
I removed a note thar tried to argue the canonicty of the entry.
They sent me several pm arguing about whether the side events are canon or not, they finally rewrote the entry here.
Did not contend because my main problem was with the note added and I can see the argument from Rapi's POV.
The second problem came when they added yet another note to downplay /argue against one of the entries on the Really Gets Around entry on the protagonist (Nikke is a harem gacha, so the protagonist gets physically intimate with SOME of the girls in the side stories).
I removed this comment because I felt it was not only unnecessary, but wrong as the developers don't really make a distinction between main story and side stories, everything is considered canon.
They reverted the entry and added a new comment justifying itself here.
At this poit I felt the troper clearly has a wonk over the harem aspect of the game and is possesive of entries that downplay Rapi's position as the canon love interest (it is a sentiment I've seen expressed elsewhere on reddit and twitter, where people take issue with the Commander having intimate relationships with other characters, so they argue that these instances are not really valid because they never happen in the main story).
I made a previous ask the tropers entry that goes into more detail here. Never took any action because I got no feedback on it.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=145452&type=att
Their last edit remained unchanged for months until some weeks ago when user dinur7.
This came along with a change in the description of the protagonist that to note them as a player avatar.
True Shadow 97 then reverts both changes to how they were before, including the Really Gets Around entry that waa already edited by them, and adds yet another comment justifying their reversion besdies the one they added when they reverted my change.
The hidden comments in question.
"Commander is mentioned as being popular with many Nikkes in the main story using various phrasings, but the Downplayed part of the entry remains factually accurate: none of the events that are relevant to the Campaign Story as of Chapter 42, such as Dirty Backyard or D.ARK HERO involve him getting hot and heavy with anyone."
"The clarification in the following entry was previously removed as "unnecessary" on the grounds of an increasing amount of events getting interconnected and some of them being canonized by the main story, such as Helm's bond story. Clarification rephrased for improved relevance and restored on the grounds of many players believing that any of Commander's romantic or sexual escapades are canon to said main story (which is possible, but hasn't been established yet, while Mihara and Yuni's bond stories are explicitly non-canon due to directly contradicting the events of Chapter 4) and none of the events that have been explicitly canonized (such as Dirty Backyard) feature Commander entering relationships with anyone."
His argument that Dirty Backyard doesn't support the Commander being in other relationships is factually wrong, its part of a chain of side stories that have the commander involved directly with three of the nikke involved in the ongoing plot.
Edited by MrSeykerresolved About Katriel Videogame
Today a troper named Katriel posted a theory on Choices: Stories You Play the problem is it's completely written badly to the point no one can understand it, here it is.
"What more deconstructive/ subversive/ satirical takes on standard choices archetypes and genres could look like A work story with all of the elements of typical choices work stories : a competition in place , a jealous rival willing to resort to any means to dethrone us from the top , an unusually physically attractive boss ... except the job in question is sewage treatment and any [[romance sleeping with the boss ]] is off the table for whatever reason , [[constantly lampshade how dubiously legal the affair is better than a bare bulb ]] , or [[mercilessly deconstruct the trope deconstructed trope]] by underscoring how [[horrifying played for horror]] it would actually be to work under a charismatic , experienced , and halo effect inducingly beautiful person who is attracted to you ... but the feeling is not mutual. Worse yet , all your friends and coworkers dismiss, downplay, and even [[ship you shipper on deck]] with your predator, to the point where they cannot stop [[gushing about how amazing and great they are Creators pet]]. All in all, the [[ultimate message of the story is central theme]] that while not all jobs can or should be necessarily glamorized, they are still important to keep society running and, as a matter of fact might be far more important than many of those "glamorous" careers. A romance from [[ the perspective of perspective flip]] the "other woman" rival seen in more recent romances. In a manner akin to [[ Crazy ex-Girlfriend]] we could delve into the forces that [[psychologically Freudian excuse]] made her into the person she is. Perhaps the plot could focus on her attempts to actually keep a romantic partner after a long history of being dumped by (and in one case [[left at the alter]] by) so many former flames. [[This time never be hurt again]], our heroine chooses to model herself after the sweet [[ childhood friends]] and the [[ maniac pixie dream girls]] that she was dumped for; as well as [[Rom - Com Protagonists in general genre savvy]]. An [[ inversion]] of the "Hollywood" stories that are the bread and butter of so many VN apps like this one. In other words [[ the player character would begin the story with a mansion , a steady partner , and immense fame to an obscure star living out in middle America ; eeking out a living riches to rags]] . It could be a capital "T" [[ Tragedy]] following a once reknowned Writer,Director , and performer from the [[ pre- Hays code]] era as they struggle against greater powers to include radical themes within their projects. [[ Ultimately , though foregone conclusion]] they [[downer ending lose all they once had]] including their [[ mansion]] , respect amung filmmaking elites , and their partner to the fears inflamed by the [[ red scare]] , the [[extreme censorship that smothered their ability to tell the stories they needed to tell bowdlerized]] , and the [[passage of time that obscured their name look upon my works ye mighty and despair]]. The [[frame story]] could center around some [[ greek chorus podcasters]] helping a curator collect interviews and personal objects from the protagonists life , therefore justifying a "collection minigame ", in order to exhibit for a new section on <span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> [[ pre- Hays code]] era" ^ (what Katriel typed not me)
Should we send Katriel a notifer to type their sentences better so we can understand them?
Edited by Ryckmanhresolved Poorly explained removal of Anti-Climax Boss from YMMV.Luigi's Mansion 3 Videogame
On Jan 18, 2020
, CookingCat added an example of King Boo to Luigi's Mansion 3 as an Anti-Climax Boss. They described the final boss as lackluster, having an unimpressive stage and moveset, and suffering from Fake Difficulty:
- Anti-Climax Boss: King Boo. The fight itself feels very lackluster compared to his fights in the original Luigi's Mansion and Dark Moon, and especially compared to the Boss Ghosts guarding the other character portraits, simply taking place on the roof of the hotel and having a very mediocre moveset, which especially hurts considering his presence in the early game. It doesn't help that the fight is known for it's clunkiness, Fake Difficulty and lack of polish compared to many of the others before it, especially the difficulty of launching the bombs in his mouth due to the targeting being off, the strange perspective and short period of vulnerability before he begins attacking again, and the final phase of the fight is timed, which, combined with the long length of his attacks and aforementioned short period of vulnerability, makes it easy to lose via the time running out before you even get a chance to attack him.
On Apr 1, 2020
, it was removed without any edit reason by Cman053. I was unaware of this prior edit history or CookingCat's original example.
A little more than a year later on Apr 20, 2021
, after having just finished the game myself, I re-added King Boo as an Anti-Climax Boss. While I never saw CookingCat's writeup, my own writeup incidentally echoed several of their criticisms, such as King Boo feeling lackluster in comparison to his previous fights in the series as well as earlier bosses within the same game; the fight's main "challenge" coming from trying to awkwardly aim a projectile; and spending much of the battle waiting for the boss to cycle through long attack patterns until he finally becomes vulnerable again. I also added the fact that it's a "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is an incredibly generic Nintendo boss formula not fitting a final boss, and the lack of a unique Game Over should the time limit run out (unlike, say, Metroid Dread) making it feel all the more anticlimactic in presentation:
- Anti-Climax Boss: After the challenging and puzzling but fairly enjoyable Hellen Gravely penultimate boss fight immediately beforehand, King Boo makes for a somewhat disappointing Final Boss. It's a fairly straightforward "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is more frustrating than challenging, stemming from the difficulty in aiming the bomb in King Boo's mouth. Even with King Boo spawning decoys and introducing harder attack patterns in each stage, it still ends up feeling repetitive as you're just waiting for King Boo to perform the same attacks until bombs spawn; unlike Dark Moon, there are no chase sequences to break up the battle and spice things up. Not even the time limit is enough to make it feel climactic, since there's no Non-Standard Game Over for letting time run out.
Additionally, King Boo was previously listed as an example of That One Boss by Drope. Since final bosses are exempt from That One Boss status and the example focused more on King Boo being frustrating and annoying instead of difficult, I moved that example to Goddamned Boss instead. It's still listed there as of now.
On Nov 17, 2023
, Fireball246 removed King Boo's Anti-Climax Boss example with the following edit reason: "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game, a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything. This all comes across as extremely subjective and definitely doesn’t deserve to be officially labeled as an Anti-Climax Boss." But this edit reason doesn't make sense?
- "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game..." With a quick Google search, I've also seen plenty of people who really disliked the fight. The fact that King Boo was previously listed as an Anti-Climax Boss by another editor, is currently listed as a Goddamned Boss (previously That One Boss), and isn't listed among the Best Boss Ever entries on the same YMMV page shows that other TV Tropes editors feel the same about this boss.
- "...a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game..." I'm definitely not a "pro gamer", but I beat King Boo on my first try with plenty of health and time left. My criticisms of the boss have nothing to do with supposedly "being bad at the game". If anything, I thought the boss was too easy if you strip away the janky aiming and the long waiting periods (both of which are criticized by other players), which adds to the boss being anticlimactic.
- "...rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything..." Again, the example focuses on King Boo being generic, repetitive, and full of waiting instead of being unique, exciting, and challenging. These are criticisms of the boss design itself, not the player's skill level.
- "This all comes across as extremely subjective..." This is YMMV, of course it's subjective. As long as it isn't a minority opinion or just flat-out factually incorrect, it's fair game.
I sent Fireball246 a "deleting YMMV" notifier on Friday, but although they've clearly been active on TV Tropes this weekend, they haven't responded or acknowledged the PM. Since I was the last one to add the Anti-Climax Boss example, I can't undo their removal (or re-add the example with greater emphasis on "anticlimax" rather than "frustrating") without edit warring. Please advise.
openEdit War in YMMV/FinalFantasyXV Videogame
Immortal Bear re-deleted
an entry I restored to Final Fantasy XV since their original deletion lacked an edit reason. They've provided an explanation after the fact, but most of it comes off as personal opinion and dislike of the Episode Ignis ending for reasons unrelated to what the original entry was about (that being that audience perception of its tone shifted due to Dot F), rather than an impartial collective observation of the reactions of the fandom at the time.
I've PM'd them as much, pointing out to them that they seem to take the YMMV label too literally as its actual focus is to describe audience responses to a work rather than to post personal opinions, that contrary to their belief the page is not trying to wage a war over which ending is objectively better, and I've also pointed out to them that though they claim the only people with a non-negative opinion are a Vocal Minority, other tropers have made the same observations as me regarding the state of the fandom at the time.
They seem to believe that because Dawn of the Future has an overall score of 9.0 on Good Reads (which often has a userbase culture distinct from the social media sites I frequent like Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, or imageboards, and whose score doesn't always take into account things like the specific comparative tone of the ending), while Episode Ignis rates an average of 7.0 (the score again mostly focusing on things like gameplay rather than tone), that it invalidates everything I've said above, since I don't have hard sources on hand for every tweet or social media comment I've seen regarding people being softer on Episode Ignis's ending or disliking Dawn of the Future's approach.
I don't think that makes for an effective counterargument as YMMV does not mandate sources in general, and Dawn of the Future's perception outside of GR tends to attract a lot of negativity in its own right, not to mention disregarding said potential inherent selection bias (the people posting reviews were probably accepting enough of the controversies around the book to read through the whole thing). The reviews themselves on GR are variable with many positive scores criticizing the ending, and many reviews that praise the ending having mediocre scores on the whole.
None of the arguments they've provided contradict the initial point (that people's opinions of Episode Ignis became less hostile once Dawn of the Future was announced) of nor justify the deletion of the entry describing how people's hostility to a certain alternate ending seen as overly happy, dipped off once another, even happier ending showed up. Especially since the edit reason for deleting it is focused mostly on arguing why Alternate Ending #1 is badly written and any talk of audience reactions is more about pointing out that a portion of the audience exist who liked the other newer, even happier ending, even though the original entry never claimed otherwise or to speak for the entirety of the fandom.
Update: They are now accusing me of outright lying and being biased in favor of one ending for disputing their deletions, despite the major issues here having to do with a lack of, followed by questionably irrelevant removal reasons in what is a potential edit war. Update 2: They've taken it back after I explained myself further.
Edited by AlleyOopopenAnother user removing my WMG entries Videogame
Just now, ttuser023 removed
some content I added
to my own WMG assumptions in WMG.MultiVersus, while at the same time adding an assumption of their own.
As far as I'm aware (since the only content concerning about WMG entries that I know thus far is the description on the main Wild Mass Guessing page), all assumptions should be welcomed regardless of how legitimate and/or outlandish it sounds, unless it doesn't seem too much like a proper theory (which even then seems to be a hard condition to reach in WMG entries). This should imply that while you can remove assumptions you had added yourself beforehand, removing those of other users wouldn't be really allowed.
Aside from sending a PM to ttuser023 so that they can be aware of this query (which I've already done), what should I do in this situation?
Edited by Inky100openWanting to avoid an edit war, and rudeness in a blank edit reason Videogame
On Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, Ukokira removed
this edit...
- False Flag Operation: Ultimately, this is what the Red Herrings surrounding the Red Samurai amount to. Despite it seemingly being an ally if not Lou or Deadman assisting Sam from beyond the grave, it turns out to be Higgs screwing with Sam, luring him into a false sense of security so he can nab Tomorrow right from under his nose.
... with the reasoning of "This literally isn't true. It's Deadman in the Red Samurai suit up until Higgs hijacks in the DHV when Deadman is explicitly outside of the Samurai body."
I added
back in on my read of "Except Deadman himself says it's not him when the Red Samurai/Higgs appears again in the Magellan. Realistic chiral holograms exist, and if it WAS Deadman he would've cleared it up at some point."
Ukokira then removes
it again with the reasoning of "He is literally talking about that one specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body" (although for some reason, the removal shows
up twice
), followed by two null edits with the edit reasons of "He is literally talking
about thatone specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body We LITERALLY SEE DEADMAN in the suit. He does a whole "we will always be connected speech". It is CLEARLY not a Chiralgram there. How are you being this dense???" and "Deadman being the suit is also in an area
that's explicitly outside of the chiral network. It physically can't be a "realistic" chiralgram".
I'd like to add the False Flag Operation back in, but I want to avoid an edit war. My reading of the whole situation is that Higgs could easily bypass the chiral network in part because of how long he spent on the Beach and being stuck there would've given him some different powers, and thus allow him to puppet the Red Samurai with a chiral hologram of Deadman overlaying the face, and that it wouldn't be out of character of Higgs to deliberately mislead the protagonists. The other reasoning is that Deadman never outright confirms that he was ever masquerading as the Red Samurai, because why would he, what with his heart having been donated to Heartman, and the rest of Deadman's body would've been more than likely incinerated to avoid the chance of a voidout.
openEdit war on Kingdom Come Deliverance YMMV page Videogame
On December 22nd, Troper The Living Drawing removed these tropes
from Kingdom Come Deliverance's YMMV page with the edit reason of "Removed several examples that, while potentially valid, are very complainy. Have not played the game and have little knowledge on it so if you have, please feel free to rewrite the removed examples to me more neutral.":
- Archery is probably the fakest of all "difficult" things in the game. There is no aiming dot visible, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. In fact, the game simply turns off the aiming dot when bows are drawn with a crudely written script. There is absolutely nothing preventing players from simply marking or memorizing the dot on display and then have perfect aim, regardless of skill, bow type or distance. The absurd sway of bows for first five levels of the skill only adds to how fake it really is, because if the aiming dot is marked (or displayed with a console command), the aim remains perfect despite displaying sway all over the screen.
- The game never really informs how to train, so if natural progress is applied with the plot progression, Henry is going to be constantly and heavily under skilled. However, spending just 30 minutes with Captain Bernhard and whacking him with random Button Mashing is enough to train Henry into formidable fighter, raising half of his stats and generally turning the whole game into a cakewalk with most of enemies unable to even hit back.
- Each and every camp full of bandits can be cleared with ease during night-time, by carefully picking them one by one. Not only does it allow the player to skip otherwise tough (or outright impossible) encounters, it's considerably easier to do than just trying to face few brigands on your own in a sword fight. Of course the game never informs about how stealth or stealth kills work, so unless player figures it out by applying common sense, good luck with all those encounters when trying to face bandits in straight-out combat.
- The entire barter system relies on Henry's relationship with the vendor: he has to lower his bids for a long time to gain enough favour to get better prices (and better bids) in the future. Cue miller Peshek, who via finishing his quest line gains 100% favour. And since he's miller, he buys stolen goods. His merchant list is also scripted to pay premium for a lot of things regardless of favour. And if one particular vendor is constantly fed new items, their cash reserve increases during restocking. Eventually Peshek can easily carry 50 thousand groschen, buying whatever and offering decent prices at that. Just don't expect the game explaining any of this at any point.
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
- Misaimed "Realism": The game was heavily marketed under "super-realism" flag, but this backfires badly at certain game mechanics, especially since how uneven the application of said "realism" is, breaking the immersion entirely rather than enhancing it.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- Said saddle bags have a limited load they can carry, but there is nothing preventing Henry from overloading himself and then simply get on horseback.
- The weapons seem to be made out of foil and raw copper, that's how quickly they wear out. They also never really break down, just reach the state of "disrepair", meaning a simple debuff to damage. And you would grind any given blade into nothingness when using grindstone so often as Henry does.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- That One Level: Needle in A Haystack. Working with the Neuhof bandits, Henry is tasked with infiltrating a monastery in order to track a straggler down, kill him and bring proof to the bandits that the target is dead. What follows is allegedly the most annoying quest in the whole game according to fans. First of all, it's a No-Gear Level, so you can't bring your weapons inside to kill the target. Second, since you're a novice, you're at the bottom of the monk hierarchy, meaning that you live under the authority of the hated Circators, monks who are supposed to keep order in the monastery and punish monks who break the rules. However, since you are being tasked with killing someone in the monastery, you WILL have to break many rules with your time in there, specially if you choose to do the sidequests that the monastery offer, which involves ludicrous amounts of lockpicking and pickpocketing, sneaking in and out of the monastery constantly, missing out on your schedule (and getting punished for that), getting lost and much more. Oh, and did we mention that all of this is done without a single Savior Schnapps in your inventory?
- Thankfully, the quest can be skipped, but it'll give you its "bad ending". There is an ornamental dagger hidden under a paving stone on the balcony next to the dormitory. If you don't mind a bit of collateral damage you can murder all the novices in their sleep, grab the spare set of keys from the pantry and escape within five minutes of the first night without needing any preplanning - apart from needing the Stealth Kill perk. Yes, it skips the whole quest and yes, it gives you a bad ending for it, but admit it, it's smart and it's understandable to do it.
- However, should Henry be a competent thief-type, the entire quest goes from That One Level to the best part of the entire game, as the main obstacle - lack of gear - is meaningless when all doors can be opened and circators avoided with stealth. It still requires overcoming various challenges, but in engaging and simply fun way.
No less than 30 minutes later, troper Stanisz added all of them back and commented them out
with the reason "If you expect people to correct the tone, how about leaving them content to correct, rather than just cutting it?" Around a week later, troper C Dan Red removed the commenting symbol and made the FakeDifficulty entry public with no edit reason.
Seeing Stanisz's reason, I decided to take a look at it myself and edited the entries
, with my own edit reason being "Grammar fixes, removed some entries (Miller seems more like Game-Breaker, Stealth is explained in the codex, and others are not that bad or seem to just be complaining), and tried to adjust the tone a tad to be more neutral." One of those removed entries was this, since most of it seemed to be unsalvageable complaining and one-sided:
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
Hours later, Stanisz added the above entry back
with the reason of "Come on, mate..."
openUnintentionallyUnsympathetic miuse and Scrappy misuse. Videogame
Someone added this to the Fire Emblem Fates ymmv page:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: The reception of Peri was mixed, but mostly negative for this reason. They attempted to make her a Sympathetic Murderer, but at the same time didn't do enough to actually make her sympathetic for most people. Her backstory that set her up to be this way is briefly summarized in one of her supports and barely acknowledged at all otherwise, her positive traits just aren't enough to redeem her for being a serial killer, almost all of her Character Development is mentioned in her endings to have taken place after the game is over, and most of her darkest aspects are Played for Laughs in ways that feel out of place in the game and leave much of the audience more uncomfortable than amused. This also has the side effect of making Xander look kind of clueless to some people, since there is very little indication that he's even aware of the sorts of things Peri does, despite Peri herself seeing nothing wrong with it, not trying at all to hide it, and talking openly about it to almost everyone.
I removed it and cited that this was someone blantly trying to scapegoat Peri as a scrappy using this, citing that this person was ignoring several aspects of the character. This was done by Gravityman. Two days later, user bigbossdiego readded it, and also added her as a scrappy, which is something that has been done before and has been continually cited as not being a valid entry.
They also said this: "A character having fans does not, I repeat, does not preclude them from this status. Peri is hated by the fans to an almost absurd degree. There are entire reddit threads about how much the fandom hates her (https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/7moa1p/hated_characters_peri/)
. The removal of her Scrappy status was also unwarranted as well in light of this information. I also dislike the entry on Never Live It Down for the reason that it both downplays the problems with picking Peri as a retainer, and ignores the issues with Xander's own justifications for it. If you want to discuss this further, please respond to my post in the discussion page."
Since this is clearly just trying to bash a Base-Breaking Character, I am going to remove it, especially since using places like reddit is not allowed as a source. Want to get opinions as well so this doesn't become an issue again.
- Edit: Also, not sure if this is true, but I believe this qualifies as an edit war on the second users part, but I'm not sure.
openEdit War on Fallout 76 Videogame
I'm finding myself in an edit war on Fallout 76. A troper recently put the Doomed by Canon trope on the page, stating the Vault 76's mission to rebuild America in the aftermath of the nuclear war "obviously' failed based on how much of a bombed-out hell hole the Capital Wasteland of Washington D.C. and Boston Commonwealth are 185 years later.
- Vault 76's mission to restore America is obviously doomed to fail from the start, since the east coast is still a Crapsack World 185 years later."
Here's the thing though: this game is a prequel and a spinoff from the main series, but there is literally NO MENTION of the end results of Vault 76's efforts anywhere else in the entire franchise. There's no mention that it's located in West Virginia, or anything else. There's only a computer terminal in Fallout 3 that only mentions that Vault 76 exists.
According to the Doomed by Canon's own Playing With page, if something hasn't been mentioned in the main installments, then it counts as an Averted Trope, and thus should not be mentioned.
"Averted:
- Bob wasn't mentioned in "The Main Tropes", so it doesn't matter what his fate is."
Or, to put it into context:
"Vault 76's efforts aren't mentioned in the rest of the Fallout franchise, so it doesn't matter what its fate is."
The game hasn't even come out yet. It'll be released in November, so nobody actually knows if the game's main storyline will address any actual results from the efforts of the players. To say that they failed because of the Crapsack World that previous (but further down the timeline) installments are with literally zero mention of this game is ridiculous.
Edited by DRCEQ

So i was reading the YMMV page for the cancelled Video Game/Hyenas, and i came across the following example of memetic mutation:
The part "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making it seem like the writer of the slogan got into some unfortunate incident and couldn't finish writing it. " really bugged me, this whole sentence felt really weird. That feels terribly specific and it's overall just a clunky piece of writing.
So i decided to investigate on google for "hyenas "join the ack" " and my suspicious were validated, all of the results containing the phrase where from Kiwi Farms and 4chan, with true context of this "Ack" that the troper pretends it's a "common exclamation for sudden dismay or frustration—making" was actually a mockery of the suicide of transgender individuals, one other example of "join the ack" that i found was an steam user making a community post with this as the title and going full transphobe.
Now, the point i'm trying to make is that based on my research, there is absolutely no way KB Zheng 123 didn't know what the context of that was about, which means they intentionally and knowingly added a transphobic joke to the site and tried to pass off as a regular joke, and that requires action by the moderators, as there should be zero tolerance for transphobia and transphobic users in this site.