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resolved Foreign Remake - Same Roles, Same Characters? Live Action TV
I made a page for Marry My Husband: Japan, which is a Foreign Remake of Marry My Husband set in Japan instead of South Korea (itself a live-action adaptation of the original webcomic) made by the same studio behind the first series.
Since the characters are obviously different people such as the protagonist Misa Kanbe having the same role as Kang Ji-won, would certain character tropes apply to the equivalent roles if they're unambiguously meant to be the same? For example:
- Adaptational Villainy: In the original webcomic and series, Min-hwan's mother Kim Ja-ok is abusive and overexpectant of Ji-won at worst, while her Japan equivalent Hirano Masako not only openly mocks the late Misa at her funeral for supposedly committing suicide, but was willing to help her son Tomoya commit fraud by using her job at Misa's insurance firm to illegally change her life insurance beneficiary to Tomoya instead of Misa's grandmother.
resolved Trimming down wordy entry. Live Action TV
So there's this entry over at the Live-Action TV subpage for Overshadowed by Controversy that's just a Wall of Text. It has to do with the talk show Karamo. It reads as follows:
- Karamo was a talk show similar to Maury and wasn't really popular, but now it's remembered for when Tiktok Chef Pii of the infamous Pink Sauce brought on a critic and proceeded to insult and gaslight her for the entire segment without letting the woman really defend herself. Making things worse, Karamo stood by her side and condemned the critic as well, accusing her of ruining the woman's life and complaining for no reason. Pink Sauce is actually known for misleading information, the chef's incredible inexperience in sauce making, not knowing what the FDA stood for, and the fact many sauces have been delivered spoiled or damaged. The critic in question wasn't just complaining to complain, and it was clear there was either some miscommunication or no research at all here. Comments even brought up why they didn't bring on people who actually lied about what the sauce did to them compared to someone with legitimate critiques. The audience cheered on the chef as well, making the critic feel like a pariah, and even when she sadly had to concede and say this should make everyone think, Karamo threw it back on her and said it was her problem and her fault before ending the segment there. This backfired for everyone except the critic; Chef Pii's reputation sunk further, and Karamo was lambasted online for his poor research and gaslighting, with people accusing him of showing favoritism to black women guests over the white ones. This culminated in him leaving a nasty tweet online calling these critics haters before deleting it, and his show scrubbed the video itself from the internet, with reaction and commentary channels being the only evidence of what happened in that episode. Many comments on newer videos continually bring up that Karamo should apologize to the critic; he did eventually contact Ally, four months later, and he still showed no real remorse to gaslighting her and, as comments pointed out, the apology felt half assed and that he was simply saving face because people were still posting comments begging for him to apologize to Ally. He even seemed to use her own words against her. Karamo went from the helpful guy on Queer Eye to a gaslighter.
How should I trim this entry so that it's more readable?
Edited by ArielLightningopenorganizing trope examples Live Action TV
I previously made a thread
asking for help organizing the tropes
on Film.Meet The Parents Film Series and had no response. What should I do? Here’s a full list of tropes that don’t mention a specific film for example.
- Accidental Truth: When the family finds out that Greg got a cat to be a fake Jinx which trashed the family room and lied about it, Pam rhetorically asks him this:
Pam: Now what are you going to tell me next? That you set Kevin's altar on fire? (chuckles nervously. Greg keeps his silence, causing Pam to stop smiling, and realize that what she just guessed was actually true) Oh my god.
- Actor Allusion: Jack mentions to Greg that he spend 9 months in a Vietnamese prison camp.
- Adaptation Expansion: Compared to the 1992 film, the main characters' backstories are much more developed, and Pam gets one additional sibling as well as a specific job as a 2nd grade teacher.
- Adaptation Species Change: Bingo the dog from the 1992 film is replaced by Jinx the cat.
- Adaptational Jerkass:
- 1992's Irv Burns is presented as a typically serious, conservative, cigar-smoking, gun-wielding Midwestern American father. A realistically intimidating father-figure, if you will. Still, he is initially trusting of Greg until his would-be son-in-law's accidents cause the family to collapse. Jack Byrnes, however, is a paranoid, overly accusatory former CIA agent who is immediately suspicious of Greg and goes to comical extremes to confirm his suspicions that he's an unsuitable suitor for his daughter, as he did for all of her past suitors.
- Downplayed with Greg. In the 1992 film, he always apologizes and tells the truth, even if no one believes him. However, in the Hollywood trilogy, he tends to make up lies and excuses when something goes wrong, but he's trying to save, not ruin, his relationships with Pam and her family.
- Adaptational Job Change:
- 1992's Greg (no last name) is an advertising agent. 2000's Greg Focker, on the other hand, is a male nurse.
- Also in the indie flick, patriarch Irv Burns was a gas station owner who eventually sold his business to Japanese investors and retired on the income. Here, Jack Byrnes is a Vietnam War veteran and retired CIA operative whose cover story is that he's a retired florist.
- Adaptational Name Change: Besides Greg being given an embarrassing last name when he originally had none (plus an embarrassing real first name), the Byrnes family last name was originally spelled "Burns" in the 1992 film. Likewise, Jack, Dina, and Debbie were once called Irv, Kay, and Fay.
- Adaptational Nice Girl: Pam's 1992 sister Fay is a creepy, obsessive lunatic who can't stand anyone criticizing her singing, and her interactions with Greg lead to the whole family's downfall. Her 2000 sister Debbie, though, is happily engaged to a man named Bob and isn't given much characterization beyond that, as the bulk of the film focuses on the Greg vs. Jack dynamic.
- All Take and No Give: Jack's Circle of Trust, despite its intentions, is unfortunately this. Jack expects the select few in the circle to be utterly honest, but he cannot keep his suspicions in check.
- Amazingly Embarrassing Parents:
- The free-spirited Fockers. They Cannot Keep a Secret and have no boundaries whatsoever, especially when it comes to sexuality.
- Jack Byrnes to a slightly lesser degree - it's clear that Pam has grown very tired of his overprotectiveness and the lengths he is willing to go to nitpick any potential suitor of hers. Not to mention, he wears a fake boob for much of the second movie.
- Ashes to Crashes: Greg breaks the urn containing the ashes of Jack's beloved mother trying to open a champagne bottle. To make it much worse, Mr. Jinx mistakes the resulting pile for a litter box.
- Blatant Lies:
- Pam telling Greg that her dad is "the sweetest man in the world". Also, later, when Jack claims to be a very accepting person.
- Greg himself is guilty of a few, especially invokedthe one about the time he milked a cat.
- Bourgeois Bohemian: The Fockers. They're portrayed as well-meaning and friendly (certainly much moreso than Jack's family) if a little loopy and too open.
- Butt-Monkey: These films are all about making poor Greg Focker actually, Gaylord as miserable as possible, having everything that could possibly go wrong, go wrong starting with when he's meeting his girlfriend's parents and continuing the trend well after he's managed to marry her and start a family.
- Cannot Keep a Secret: When Pam reveals to Greg that she's pregnant (and the Fockers figure it out on their own), he's afraid Jack will find out because his parents are so open about everything and refuse to keep secrets. Ironically, Greg ends up being the one who spills the beans to Jack, albeit under the influence of truth serum that Jack injected him with.
- Cats Are Mean: Even Mr. Jinx seems to have it in for Greg.
- Chekhov's Gunman: The "bingo bango bongo" guy in the second film who turns out to be the county judge.
- Closer to Earth: Played straight with the Byrneses; Dina is far more sane and rational than Jack. Averted elsewhere, though. Greg, despite being a klutz, is otherwise a fairly level-headed guy and on par with Pam in terms of overall intelligence and sanity. As for Bernie and Roz Focker, they're both pretty loopy.
- Cloud Cuckoolander: Greg's parents to a T. Kevin evolves into this by the third film. And Jack, in his own paranoid and overprotective way.
- Conflict Ball: And how! The entire trilogy's biggest conflicts all revolve around Jack thinking Greg is out to do no good when it's all misunderstandings and not waiting until he has all evidence before confronting Greg.
- Control Freak: Jack Byrnes' Fatal Flaw, on top of being Improperly Paranoid, is that he needs to be the leader of the situation and only his opinions matter. The further down the trilogy he goes, the less control he has, the more stress he gets, which culminates with him getting several heart attacks in the third film.
- Cringe Comedy: Any lesser man would have pummeled Jack Byrnes to a pulp (or would have risked serious injury/death trying), hollered his feeling fed-up with the crap he's been through, and gone back home. Which goes to show how determined Greg is to make things right.
- Daddy's Girl: Pam, being Jack's oldest daughter. Debbie to a slightly lesser extent.
- Dating What Daddy Hates: Not just Greg, but most of Pam's exes as well. There's nothing really wrong with the guys, Jack is just that overprotective
- Dead Pet Sketch: With a cat.
- Decomposite Character: 2000 Pam's sister Debbie and brother Denny are two components of 1992 Pam's sister Fay, one being a woman and the other being a secret marijuana user. Neither, however, has inherited Fay's trait of being an obsessive would-be singer who can't take criticism.
- Digging Yourself Deeper: Greg just can't help himself.
- Do Not Call Me "Paul": For obvious reasons, Greg Focker does not like using his actual first name: Gaylord.
- Embarrassing First Name: Greg's real first name is Gaylord. His parents also call him "Gay". What sort of parents call their son Gaylord Focker? Hippies, of course. It is also implied with the airport security officer Norm, considering Greg's sarcastic "Bye, Norm." after Jack shows up to interrogate Greg instead.
- Empathy Pet: Jack's beloved Mr. Jinx is equally intelligent, standoffish and mean to Greg. Bernie's dog Moses humps everything that moves.
- Everyone Has Standards:
- While Jack has all but delighted in giving Greg a hard time from the moment they met, he cannot abide by Denny's mean-spirited mockery of Greg's legal name. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it background moment, you can see Jack soberly gesturing to Denny that his joking isn't appropriate and he needs to stop. Despite being Greg's biggest critic, even Jack's one of the few who doesn't find it amusing.
- In Meet the Fockers, Roz causes Greg much embarrassment when she talks about Greg's circumcision, and shows the Byrneses his saved foreskin. Even Bernie, who's notorious for being TMI and causing embarrassment by it, thinks that Roz is taking things too far.
- Failed a Spot Check: The ultra paranoid and suspicious Jack is unaware that his own son Denny smokes pot.
- Fatal Flaw: Jack's hyper-paranoid humorless Control Freak tendencies and how because of them he's constantly stressed. The fact that this almost becomes a literal fatal flaw is an important plot point of the third film.
- Flanderization: Jack is a domineering Papa Wolf / Knight Templar Parent in the first film and gets even worse in the sequels. Greg/Gaylord, meanwhile, gradually becomes marginally more self-sufficient and assertive and by the third film, is almost Jack's equal in terms of being a hardass.
- Greeting Gesture Confusion: When Greg first meets Dina, she holds out her hand for a handshake while he goes for a hug.
- Happily Married: Bernie and Roz Focker, to the point that the level-headed Dina is secretly jealous that they have such a successful sex life at their advanced age.
- Hippie Parents: Roz and Bernie to Greg.
- Horrible Judge of Character: For someone who claims to be an expert in reading people, Jack is astoundingly bad at it. His laser-focus on Greg makes him completely miss Bob's character flaws and he only realizes it when Bob cheats on Debbie. He also thinks that Kevin, who, while wealthy, is a flighty In Love with Love airhead who believes in "alternative medicine" and is bold enough to make advances on an already-married woman whom he is suggested to have an unhealthy fixation with, is a better match for Pam than Greg, a skilled nurse who rose through the ranks to become department chair and is clearly dedicated to his wife and children. Dina, in fact points out how he treated Kevin similarly to Greg when he and Pam were dating, and only developed this idealized view after they had broken up.
- Improperly Paranoid: Jack's Fatal Flaw – he would rather believe Greg (and his parents, and everybody else who so much as saw his girls) is actively and maliciously trying to do something (and put him through utter hell to force him to tell the truth) than accept that his son-in-law is just a Butt-Monkey. The "circle of trust" system is also supposed to allow for an open inter-family relationship, but it becomes apparent long before Pam and Dina call B.S. that Jack is the only one allowed to have secrets. Not to mention that he's so focused on Greg that he's caught completely by surprise to learn his other son-in-law, Bob, has been cheating on Debbie, which then indirectly causes him to double down on his paranoia toward Greg over something innocent his granddaughter says.
- Innocent Swearing: Little Jack repeating the word "asshole".
- Insistent Terminology: Jack always says that Greg's job is "male nurse" rather than just "nurse".
- Irony: Even though Jack is one of the best examples of a Knight Templar Parent, his favorite song is the one that exemplifies childlike innocence: "Puff, the Magic Dragon."
- It's All My Fault: After Jack learns that his daughter Deb has broken up with her husband at the start of the third movie, he blames himself for not seeing the signs that Bob was cheating, claiming that he was so focused on Greg that he didn't pay attention to Bob.
- Jerkass:
- Jack. Pam's entire family, in fact, except Dina and Pam herself. Even his cat is a Jerkass.
- The redneck cop in the second movie.
- The Lawful Stupid airline employees that Greg had to put up with in the first film.
- Jerkass Has a Point: While Jack clearly disliked, bullied, and had many unfounded suspicions about Greg, not all of it was unjustified. Greg did unwittingly cause a lot of property damage, and a lot of trouble for the family, and always lied about it, or made excuses, rather then simply fess up, apologize, and try to make amends. Even Dina and Pam couldn't argue with Jack that this was disgraceful, and sided with Jack, when he finally threw Greg out. On the other side of the coin, Jack claimed if Greg had simply been honest about everything, he would've been completely accepting of him. Additionally, while his biases may have led him to assume the worse, quite a few of the things that sour his view of Greg throughout the trilogy are based on Not What It Looks Like examples that Greg is initially unaware of and lacks the opportunity to refute, so a few of his bad impressions are based on not entirely unreasonable deductions.
- Jerk with a Heart of Gold: Jack a very restrained type considering the actor that is playing him; he clearly loves his daughter and wants only the best for her, but his extreme Papa Wolf personality makes it difficult for her to have any successful relationships. Though he does push it with how much he tortures and refuses to reason with Greg and his family. The "Circle Of Trust" and control-freak tendencies make it clear he's pretty difficult to live with, which even his own wife and daughters admit. That being said, he does come to respect Greg by the end of each film, even if he slips into Aesop Amnesia in the next film and has to relearn the same lesson all over again.
- Kafka Komedy: All 3 movies revel in being this.
- Kindhearted Cat Lover: Jack, who dotes on Jinx like crazy. The "kindhearted" part is extremely debatable to say the least, though.
- Knight Templar Parent: This describes Jack Byrnes to a T.
- Large Hams: The Koshers - er, Fockers, oh damn.
- Let Her Grow Up, Dear: Pam's mom is definitely more supportive of her relationship with Gaylord than Jack ever will be.
- Lighter and Softer: Very much so compared to the 1992 movie, in which most of the main characters die, including Bingo the dog. The worst example we see of animal cruelty in this movie is Greg accidentally losing Jinx and replacing him with a stray, spray-painting his tail.
- Living Lie Detector: Jack places his thumbs on Greg's wrists as an impromptu lie detector in their last major scene.
- Which may border on to research failure as using your thumbs to take a person's pulse is not correct; your thumb has its own pulse and thus may give a false reading.
- Some have speculated that Jack was counting on Greg not knowing that, and getting distracted from hiding other signs that he's lying. Though he'd already learned that Greg aced the MCATs.
- Which may border on to research failure as using your thumbs to take a person's pulse is not correct; your thumb has its own pulse and thus may give a false reading.
- Lovable Sex Maniac: Greg's parents.
- Luke, I Might Be Your Father: See Ethnic Menial Labor above.
- M.D. Envy: Inverted; although Greg scored top marks in medical school, he chose to be a nurse so he could spend more time with patients. Jack and the rest of the Byrnes family (which include several doctors themselves) grill him on why he just didn't become a doctor and even refuse to believe he passed his MCAT with top marks.
- Military Alphabet: Jack uses this when talking to his CIA contacts.
- Nasal Trauma: Greg accidentaly breaks Debbie's nose during the volleyball scene.
- Not Under the Parents' Roof: Greg and his fiancee Pam are staying with her parents, Jack and Dina. After a disastrous first day, they are just about to have sex in her room, only to be interrupted when Jack and Dina knock at the door. They're there to say not to worry about the events of the day... and to inform Greg that he will be sleeping downstairs in the den. As Dina is leaving, Jack casually informs Greg that while he realizes the two of them have probably had "premarital relations", while they're under his roof, it's his way or the Long Island Expressway.
- Not What It Looks Like:
- Many of Greg's problems with Jack come from Jack jumping to erroneous conclusions based on limited information; he assumes Greg is giving Pam fetish clothes when he examined a suitcase that was sent to Greg by mistake, he believes Greg didn't take the MCATs but in reality Jack's contacts didn't find Greg's marks because Greg took the tests under his legal name of Gaylord, etc.
- In the third film, Andi gets drunk and tries to force herself on Greg, but he rejects her. Jack arrives, planning to apologize to Greg for their earlier falling out, but gets the wrong idea when he sees them from afar.
- Obnoxious In-Laws: Different types: the Fockers are of the "so embarrassing to be around that they feel like a plague" type, while the Byrnes are of the "make your life hell via constantly point out any little flaws you have" type, with Jack being the exaggerated version of that, that being "Personal version of Big Brother Is Watching You".
- Old People are Nonsexual: Jack and Dina are implied to be this in the first, while Bernie and Roz are definitely not. By the end of the sequel, Jack and Dina pick up a few tips from the latter and proceed to do it in the RV.
- Only Sane Man: Dina's the only member of Pam's family who is remotely nice to Greg.
- Overly Long Gag - see Punny Name below.
- "Are you prepared to be... the Godfocker?" "The Godfocker." "Yes. The Godfocker." "I'm not sure I like the name 'The Godfocker'".
- Papa Wolf: Jack to a disturbing degree.
- Jack learns to his dismay that Bernie Focker can be one when he finds out that Jack drugged Greg with truth serum.
- Parental Marriage Veto
- Precision F-Strike: "Ass...oooole..."
- Profound by Pop Song: Greg is asked to say grace at dinner. He tries to improvise a prayer, which ends up as the lyrics to "Day by Day" from Godspell.
- Punny Name: Mo Focker, an unseen relative. A conversation between Jack and Greg reveals that's not the extent of it, either:
Greg Focker: You meet some of the... eh... some of the cousins?
- Put on a Bus: The first scene we see of Bernie Focker is him taking dance classes... in Spain. It seems this will be his only appearance in the film... until he makes a surprise return home in the second half of the movie. Originally, Dustin Hoffman could not agree to work on the film due to disagreements with the production studio on the scope of his role... but this changed, thanks to negotiations that included a bigger paycheck. He ended up being added via reshoots
- "The Reason You Suck" Speech:
- After spending most of the movie being dumped on by his prospective in-laws, Greg finally loses it and gets thrown off an airplane for giving this to a flight attendant.
- Jack also gets this from Pam and Dina after they realise he's just been looking for excuses to kick Greg out, and from Greg himself when he shows up at the airport. In all cases, he's basically being called out on being an overbearing Control Freak Boyfriend-Blocking Dad.
- Running Gag:
- At the end of each film. At the end of the first two Jack views a video of Greg ragging on him via "hidden" camera. At the end of the third film Jack views a Youtube video of Greg talking about Jack at a seminar and Reiterating the crazy antics Jack pulled in the films.
- People (usually Jack) taking pot shots at Greg for being a male nurse. Even Kevin gets in on it in a backhanded way when he equates nursing with volunteer work.
- Sadist Show: The basis of the humor in the movies is that the universe seems to hate Greg Focker. Also, his new father-in-law is a sadist who refuses to let Greg ever come out of something looking good, and most of his in-laws are sardonic snobs who ridicule Greg at every opportunity. Even the cat seems to delight in making Greg look bad.
- Second Place Is for Losers: The attitude expressed by Jack and (to a lesser extent) Dina after they see the "Wall of Gaylord" put together by Bernie and Roz.
- Shout-Out:
- When Greg and Jack fall into the ballpit, the Jaws theme starts playing. When Greg notices a Worm Sign circling him, a dolly zoom occurs and he starts screaming for the kids to get out of the ball pit.
- Greg and Jack listen to "Puff the Magic Dragon", and Greg brings up the common reading of it as a weed metaphor. Jack is unimpressed.
Greg: Some people think that to "puff the magic dragon" means to smoke a marijuana cigarette.
- Shown Their Work: The human lie detector was debunked, due to info on the pulse. However, another aspect of lie detecting was still in play. When Jack administers the test, he looks at Greg in the eyes. While Greg looks away a few moments, Jack still keeps his eyes focused on Greg's. This is based off of a popular fact that if you look to the left while answering a question, you are lying. The left side of the brain has been known as the thinking side while the right side is the creative side, but they each control the opposite side of the body. Looking to the left means you are coming up with some BS story.
- Spared by the Adaptation: Given that the 2000 film is much lighter than the original 1992 story, Pam and her mom are not accidentally killed by her dad, nor does said dad die of a heart attack.
- Strong Family Resemblance: Averted with Isabel's son, Jorge and Greg as it turns out he's not the real father. Its still uncanny, though.
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: Greg finally snapping and telling off the annoying flight attendant ends with a hard cut to him getting dragged off the plane back through the airport by security guards, and only Jack showing up and pulling rank is able to save him from getting hit with a slew of criminal charges. Even before The War on Terror and the creation of The TSA, aggressive and threatening behavior on an airplane was not taken lightly.
- Too Dumb to Live: Even though the film takes place in the pre-9/11 era (barely) and Greg was at the end of his rope, saying "bomb" on an airplane was pretty stupid on his part.
- Too Much Information: Practically everything Greg's parents say.
- Trailers Always Spoil:
- The reveal of Jack being ex-CIA would've been funnier if it wasn't stated outright in trailers for the movie.
- They also played up Jack watching Greg doing silly kung fu moves to his hidden camera, which is the film's last scene.
- There isn't much the theatrical trailer doesn't give away.
- The Un-Favorite: With Grandkids. Jack picks the bright (and slightly psychotic) Samantha as his favorite to the lonely and somewhat dim Henry. He claims this is because Samantha likely has more of Pam's genes than Greg's, and is therefore "less of a Focker."
- Vertigo Effect: When Jack is swimming after Greg in the ball pit. This is a Shout-Out to Jaws, which helped make the Vertigo Effect famous.
- Wham Line: A subtle one... During the What the Hell, Hero? scene with Jack, Pam and Dina, after Pam walks out says a lot, including the fact that even the adored Kevin had difficulties while dating Pam.
Jack: So what if he took the MCATs? He's still not good enough for Pam.Dina: Who is, Jack? Nobody has ever been good enough for your Pam. I mean, do you realize that you never even warmed up to Kevin until she broke up with him?
- What Happened to the Mouse?: The fake "Mr. Jinx" cat with the grey tip on its tail. When Jack confronts Greg about it, Greg sets the cat down, and the cat walks off, down the hallway. It's never seen again after that. Not that we even need to know about it after that.
- Andi Garcia in the third film; she disappears from the plot after she and Greg wake up in the dirt pit.
- Who Names Their Kid "Dude"?: Only hippies. Pam's brother has a good laugh when he asks the trope; "Wait a minute! So your name is gay focker? (laughs) It's an unusual name."
- World of Jerkass: With the exception of Pam and Dina, everyone seems set on making life miserable for Greg.
resolved Does this part of a Pop-Culture Isolation example really qualify? Live Action TV
On YMMV.Squid Game, 8BrickMario
recently added
the following bolded sentence to the page's Pop-Culture Isolation example:
- Pop-Culture Isolation: The reason the reveal in "Front Man" that the Front Man is Jun-ho's missing brother In-ho was more shocking to Korean audiences but kind of got lost in translation internationally is because the Front Man's actor – Lee Byung-hun – is one of the top A-list megastars of all of South Korean cinema, and whose film Inside Men was explicitly referenced earlier in the series by Ji-yeong in the past episode "Gganbu", even mentioning Lee by name. While Lee has also played roles in Western cinema before Squid Game, most notably Storm Shadow in the G.I. Joe film series, neither Lee himself nor the use of Celebrity Paradox via passing dialogue are anywhere near as popular in Western media. From a Western perspective, imagine if a player sarcastically referred to the games as "our mission, should we choose to accept it", only for it to turn out that the mysterious leader of the masked guards is portrayed by Tom Cruise. Perhaps recognizing that Lee Byung-hun's reveal didn't hit as much outside of Korea, the show does pull off a similar casting effect for Western audiences by Season 3, where we see an American games recruiter played by Cate Blanchett!
The issue is that this added sentence was apparently to mention how the series "corrected" the pop culture issue with another big-name actor, but I don't really get how it can parallel to the issue of Western audiences not regarding Lee Byung-hun as much as Cate Blanchett, since the latter's character is someone who appears only once (unlike the former's major role) and didn't first appear masked before then having their face visible to amaze audiences at the actor, nor is there any mention or reference to said actor and/or their other roles beforehand.
I'm wondering, could this added sentence feel too redundant for what the example is referring to? What are your thoughts?
Sent a PM to 8BrickMario so they can be aware of this query, by the way.
Edited by Inky100resolved "See the subpage" vs. crosswicking Live Action TV
~Mariofan 99 removed
two Franchise Original Sin examples from YMMV.Obi Wan Kenobi and replaced it with something to the effect of "See FranchiseOriginalSin.Star Wars". I feel like this practice violates Crosswicking policy (i.e. I'm okay with having a franchise hub subpage but I think examples should still be crosswicked on individual work pages), but since I wrote one of the examples myself, I want a second opinion to avoid edit-warring.
They also failed to actually add the removed example to the subpage.
Edited by StarSwordopenCall-Back vs. Continuity Nod Live Action TV
I came very often upon examples of Call-Back that don't fit for not being plot-significant, and move them to Continuity Nod. As the description of the trope specifies:
- [A Call-Back is m]ore or less a Shout-Out to itself — but if that's all that it's doing, then it's a Continuity Nod; a Call-Back brings back an element that is actually relevant again.
However, on Andor S2E10 "Make It Stop", one such move of mine was reverted by palm529sw, despite the two concerned examples being pure flavor with no relevance at all to the episode. I did PM this editor, but got no response yet.
I'd like to have confirmation that my interpretation of Call-Back is correct, and that I can move the two examples back to Continuity Nod without being accused of edit warring.
Edited by StFanopenAgenda-based editing Live Action TV
A large portion of regularmordecai’s
edits here center around the Stranger Things scene where Eleven hits Angela with a skate for bullying her (most of them are on the show’s YMMV page) and it definitely seems agenda-based as they keep pushing the message that fans shouldn’t have enjoyed that scene and exaggerating Eleven’s actions (such as calling her a school shooter despite the fact that she didn’t kill anyone). This has been going on for about ten months now and on several occasions I tried making these entries more neutral but they promptly edited them again to add additional complaints, often using weasel words to make it sound like much of the fandom agrees with them when it’s likely just their personal opinion. They recently added an entry
under the Nightmare Fuel page bashing real-life fans for thinking Angela had it coming and calling them “foolhardy”
for allegedly saying they wished they could have done the same to their bullies (and the entry is improper at any rate since the page is about the show itself, not real-life events).
resolved Character reversion for The Pitt Live Action TV
Regarding an edit on characters for The Pitt ( https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/ThePitt2025
) . I wish to revert or if possible modify a character edit. Regarding characters tropes I believe we post both strengths and weaknesses of character to paint a full picture of said character. But feel the current edits for Doctor Landon tend to seem to attempt to protect the character from any negative aspects. To note , I am not seeking to bash said character.
Original version
- Believing Their Own Lies: Tries to convince Robby that the pain-meds his stolen does not impair his judgement or reasoning at all. However during his shift he did try to throw an attending under the bus to protect himself and was stealing and diluting much needed hospital supplies before the shift. At the end of the shift, he desperately tried to manipulate two colleagues Robby and Dana who respect him, to ignore his condition
Revised version
- Believing Their Own Lies: Tries to convince Robby that the Librium he stole does not impair his judgement or reasoning at all and that he only needs them to wean off his addiction. Robby immediately calls him out for not taking the proper steps to treat his withdrawal symptoms, bluntly laying out that he could be facing felony charges for his diversion.
The second version seemingly softens Langdon actions and ramifications of his actions. As well as the problems with the actions that he took and the consequences of them. As in the lie he tells himself is not that he needs to wean himself off the pills, but the lie is the pill affect his behaviour , ie stealing needed medication to feed his need.
Original version
- Never My Fault: Unfortunately as an addict he views his thefts as necessary. Refuses to accept he may have a problem and when forced to go into rehab and face being reported as having a drug problem tries to paint it as Robby over-reacting instead of a genuine issue due to his addiction.
Revised version
- Never My Fault: Unfortunately Langdon refuses to take responsibility over his addiction, believing that he only needs the benzos to wean off his dependence on pain meds.
Removes how Langdon acts as its NeverMyFault by removing what he is refusing to accept fault for. Seemingly makes it about his addiction and not a) the thefts he committed to feed the addiction or b) is refusal to accept fault for his actions and having a blowout over it.
Original version
- Kick the Dog: When Robby refuses to ignore Langdon's addiction and thefts. Decides to report the incident and offer to get Landon into rehab. Langdon instead of being grateful, throws the gesture in his face stating that Robby has no right to judge claiming he is as messed up as he is bringing up Robby PTSD and breakdown earlier that night. Robby who is emotionally and physically raw from end of the shift , can only walk away disappointed in his former friend.
Revised version
- Kick the Dog: When Robby gives Langdon the ultimatum of going to rehab instead of losing his license, Langdon throws the gesture in his face by stating that Robby has no right to judge since he's claiming "as messed up as he is" because of his meltdown in Pedes from earlier. Robby pointedly tells Langdon that he's the one that screwed up massively.
Again , cuts away why the example exists in order to make the character less abrasive or damaged as is. In way to prevent the character from seeming unlikable.
Original version
- Functional Addict: Langdon is addicted to Librium, a benzodiazepine, to the point of filching pills from the prescription of one of the hospital's "frequent flyer" patients. When Robby finds out, he makes an extremely poor attempt at defending himself when confronted with Santos' suspicion that he's stealing other medications on top of it. Despite this, he is still an outstandingly competent doctor, a point which he himself brings up when confronted by Robby. Despite this , Robby correctly forces him to go into treatment as Langdon is in denial about his problem. As he is actively stealing medication from patients in pain, and his argument and his argument he just need the pain-meds to get off his pill-addiction is him ignoring the seriousness of his problem
Revised version
- Functional Addict: Langdon is addicted to Librium, a benzodiazepine, to the point of filching pills from the prescription of one of the hospital's "frequent flyer" patients. When Robby finds out, he makes an extremely poor attempt at defending himself when confronted with Santos' suspicion that he's stealing other medications on top of it. Despite this, he is still an outstandingly competent doctor, a point which he himself brings up when confronted by Robby. However, Robby has to give him an ultimatum of going to rehab or face losing his medical license.
Leaves out the serious issue that Langdon is stealing pain meds from patients in pain and causing risks to other patients. Another issue it attempts to downplay the act and his issues via the statement “Despite this, he is still an outstandingly competent doctor, a point which he himself brings up when confronted by Robby.” Seemingly excusing his 'filching' because he hasn't screwed up medically , yet.
Original version
- Took a Level in Jerkass: An unfortunate side effect of addiction is the inability to accept that he has a problem and take to desperate measures to protect himself from consequence. From trying to paint Santos genuine concerns as false accusations from a new resident that most people don't like. To desperately trying to compare his pill -addiction to Robby's PTSD in order to gain sympathy , which forces Robby to walk away from him in disbelief. To trying to convince Dana who is having her own traumatic day that Robby judgement is in question and needs her to have his back despite his own erratic behavior.
New Version
- Took a Level in Jerkass: An unfortunate side effect of Langdon's addiction is his inability to accept that he has a problem, taking desperate measures to protect himself from consequences. The peak of this comes when Langdon tries to tell Robby to ignore his addiction since the latter is "just as screwed up" as he is because of his breakdown towards the end of "7:00 PM". Clearly, this does not go over well with Robby.
'The second version leaves out what desperate measures Langdon took making it a ZCE and again unnecessarily saving the character from any sort of criticism. Not looking to bash said character but the second example says they took a level without explaining ‘’how’’ they Took a Level in Jerkass. As well as neutering the confrontation he had with Robby
Again I am not attempting to bash the character. Have noted that a character should express both negative and positive aspects of a character. I just feel that the new edits seemingly go out of its way to “clean” up the character. Which doesn’t seem an issue when less popular characters like Santos is concerned. If reversion to its original version is not advised is there any suggestion to make the examples more nuanced?
resolved Typo in the title: Recap/TheChicagoCodeS1E13MikeRyokosRevenge Live Action TV
The Chicago Code S 1 E 13 Mike Ryokos Revenge
The episode title should be "Mike Royko's Revenge," not Ryoko— the reference is to a Chicago Tribune columnist, not a J-Pop singer. But I'm not sure how to fix it as it's in the page title itself.
resolved Possible Edit War on YMMV Watson(2025) Live Action TV
Regarding this page, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/Watson
there was an UnintentionallyUnsympathetic example I removed as audiences and critics noted that Ingrid seemingly set Isaac up to take his spot. I did add reasons for the removal, as Ingrid did not deny her actions and deflected his accusations. In episode she seemed knowingly let him drive while (mildly) intoxicated then turned him in not out of morality but out of benefit to herself.
It was originally added by {{6 »Tropers}} , then re-added again after removal, not sure if that counts as EditWar or not.
As pointed out by the reasoning stated she didn't deter him from driving, she didn't call for an UBER. She waited till he was on the road then called the Police to advise of a drunk driver, including his car model essentially setting him up. As critics and other audiences pointed out she set him up to take his spot, ruining his life and deflecting blame. Making his character sympathetic.
As the example was re-added without reasoning am I able to remove it again.
Edited by Tuvokresolved First post Live Action TV
Hello,do you have any example of a live action tv show or movie where a mother involves herself in a sex for services situation to benefit her kid in some way?Other than those already present on this site i mean
openPedro Pascal Roles Live Action TV
A while back, someone greatly expanded the filmography section of Creator.Pedro Pascal, with roles previously unmentioned and/or lacking their own pages. Some of these include instances of him playing himself in something nonfictional, or narrating a documentary. Do these usually go on actors' pages?
Today I removed a credit for him hosting SNL, because I noticed pages for actors who've hosted more than once don't mention it in the filmography.
resolved Ultra Series - Found an eyebrow-raising YMMV post Live Action TV
The post in question goes like this here
:
- What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?: Some have criticized the franchise for supposedly having nationalistic anti-foreign sentiments, seeing the Japanese defense teams defending against various alien threats as paralleling Japan pushing away foreigners and foreign influence. Many point to the second episode of the original Ultraman as an example, where the Baltan aliens were fleeing refugees after they blew up their own planet.note Ignoring the fact that they were planning to enslave humanity and take the planet by force, and Science Patrol actually okayed the idea of the Baltans living on the planet so long as they abided Earth's laws (which the aliens refused). This is ignoring the many times that aliens were shown sympathetically (even as tragic victims of allegorical racismnote such as in episode 33 of Return of Ultraman, episode 25 of Ultraman Max, and many episodes of Ultraseven) and the main heroes, the Ultramen, are well... aliens. The Science Patrol is also shown to be an international organisation, the series just focuses on the Japanese branch.
The post ends up contradicting itself. Should it stay or be removed?
Edited by 9thOutworldsManopenAbby Cadabby Live Action TV
From PeripheryHatedom.Live Action TV:
- Showing that history can indeed repeat itself, Abby is currently getting the same treatment as Elmo, mainly from the generation of young adults and teens that grew up watching and fell in love with Elmo. Abby's popularity with the older fanbase is a Broken Base—some find her a refreshing change from the two decades of Elmo (although how long this will last before they start getting annoyed by her remains a question), while others still don't care and still want the focus to be back on Big Bird and the Muppets (and human characters) of their time. The root cause of the hatedom here is The Generation Gap combined with a Nostalgia Filter, combined with a heaping dose of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.
openSpeculation? Live Action TV
I found this on Fridge.Ghosts US:
- Many of the ghosts have a power related to who they were as a Living or how they died.
- (Multiple valid entries)
- Hetty's ghost power, if it matches the matriarch of the original, would be the ability to appear in photographs (but not electronic media). This would be in line with her responsibility in life, having to maintain the proper appearance for all the excesses she and Elias (mostly Elias) did during their lives.
As of the end of season three, Hetty's ghost power has not yet been revealed (unless you count being able to use the telephone cord she used to strangle herself as a rope as a power). The entry even mentions that this hasn't yet been confirmed. Would it be okay to delete the entry on Hetty on the grounds of speculative troping?
openSomething in Muppets (2015) That Never Actually Happened? Live Action TV
So I recall something in the page for The Muppets (2015) that's been there for a while now.
- Big Eater:
- Piggy gorges herself on a basket of cheeses after Fozzie manages to break through her emotional barriers by accident.
- Kermit is revealed to be a stress eater. He even asks for more food after eating so much that he can't move.
While I can confirm it's true Kermit is a stress eater, I can't find anywhere else that brings up a part where "He even asks for more food after eating so much that he can't move." and I've looked through the episodes and it doesn't seem to happen. Did I miss something, or did somebody put up misinfo for the sake of troping with one hand? (considering what 'eating so much they can't move' usually means.)
Edited by RedBerryBlueCherryopenQuestionable edit. Live Action TV
These two entries were recently posted on YMMV.Young Sheldon by user "marshenwhale".
1) Under Unintentionally Sympathetic:
- Sheldon throughout the entire show could be considered this, since he clearly is on the spectrum but the show never directly acknowledges this or delves into it, all of the times where he acts stuck up or talks down to his family for his intelligence, they treat him like a kid who is just being bratty, but since he is neurodivergent, it means his parents never handle his behavior correctly. This is probably at it's worst in "An Entrepreneurialist and a Swat on the Bottom" where Sheldon is portrayed as being completely in the wrong for calling Meemaw selfish and trying to run away to see a lecture when nobody will take him, but the fact is that Sheldon literally does not understand why what he is doing is wrong considering he doesn't read social cues properly, and is shown to not understand when he is hurting people's feelings because from his perspective, he's just stating facts. So Meemaw spanking him and him later getting grounded makes all of the adults in his life look like morons since they have clearly seen by this point that Sheldon doesn't think in a typical way and just choose to ignore it.
2)Under Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
- Going off the point above in Unintentionally Sympathetic, basically the entire family in most of their conflicts with Sheldon since they all fail to recognize that he isn't neurotypical. This doesn't apply to Georgie since he rarely fights with Sheldon, but it does make George, Mary, and Meemaw all look really dumb. You could argue that this is a result of Mary being very religious and therefore not being very educated on what the spectrum is, but considering the show takes place over multiple years you'd think at some point one of the adults in Sheldon's life would wonder if it applied to him. Worst of all, this even makes Missy look really bad, because as a child growing up in the 80s and 90s, she most definitely would have learned what someone being neurodivergent was at some point but never even brings it up, which causes all of her dislike towards Sheldon to make her look like a total jerk instead of just a child lashing out at being the The Un-Favourite, which is clearly what the writers were going for.
I have some issues with this. For one, while hinted at in both The Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon, Sheldon has never been confirmed to be neurodivergent, not even by Word of God, who blatantly refuse to answer definitively. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he is, but there's no official confirmation.
Also, the post reads like the poster has a bit of a bias. Neurodivergent or not, some of the shit Sheldon pulls is uncalled for and would reasonably make most people angry. When I watched "An Entrepreneurialist and a Swat on the Bottom", I was under the impression that Sheldon knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway because his needs are more important to him than everyone else and he acts like that quite often in both shows.
Should this stay or not? Or should it be re-written? I'll let the tropers decide since this is YMMV and I am not the biggest Sheldon Cooper fan so I'm likely biased in My own way.
resolved Heavy-handed "badge of honor" troping Live Action TV
rr3elite appears to have a major Single-Issue Wonk focused on showing off the villainy of the character Zein from Kamen Rider Outsiders and their appearances in other Kamen Rider media, including this week's episode of Kamen Rider Gotchard. I initially reported them on ATT before
for shoehorning in Fan Myopia-laden comparisons to other works through misuse of various tropes, but it is now clear that was a symptom of a much bigger wonk, mostly afflicting Zein's sheet, the page for Outsiders itself, and various pages for Gotchard (YMMV, antagonists sheet, Nightmare Fuel, #33's recap) where Zein's appearance is concerned.
I haven't sent any notifiers because there's too many offending edits to comb through, but a lot of their edits consist of what they have previously been reported for, plus Bold Inflation, countless sentence structure and grammar errors, and "look at how horrible this person is" examples that stretch Zein's villainynote it is a sapient AI that has placed the world into an authoritarian surveillance state with the intent of mass genocide and has manipulated the heroes into giving it its resources, but I would hesitate to call a lot of its actions deliberately symbolic or nuanced beyond face value.. They also added Speculative Troping examples to Gotchard #33's recap suggesting Zein would have had a darker and more dramatic role in the episode, when in reality he only appears to kill one of the unambiguously-evil villains in the episode and leaves just as quickly to promote Outsiders.
I'm not sure if this is a policy violation in its own right, but I cannot deny in good faith that it is starting to compromise their writing and thus the quality of the pages they are editing.
EDIT: The issue has persisted despite previous mod notifiers and acknowledgement of behavior. More information in comments.
EDIT 2: There are still issues coming from this troper despite the above. As before, more information in comments.
Edited by TrocyteV

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.GenV&page=5#edit46057001
I added an Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry regarding one character’s redemption arc.
It was removed on two separate occasions (sorry, I wasn’t aware of the rules. That’s my fault) for these reasons: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.GenV&page=5#edit46056103
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.GenV&page=5#edit46059563
When they came to rescue her in episode 5, Cate was happy but she didn’t actually say that SHE did anything wrong. She just said she was shocked they came “after everything.” Her telling Sam they “hurt people” seemed more like an attempt to get him to back off wanting her to erase his emotions, which she certainly would have done if her powers were working right (she even did it once without his consent earlier this season). And her promise to not use her powers on her friends again doesn’t hold much water since 1.) It’s easy to say that and commit to it when she doesn’t actually HAVE powers at the time, and 2.) She was already given MANY chances in season 1 by the gang to stop doing just that which she didn’t take. It also doesn’t help that she’s guilty of several instances of sexual assault. There were the guards in season 1 she could have easily just put to sleep. And there was arguably her sexual relationship with Golden Boy where she repeatedly wiped certain memories that would’ve made him rightfully repulsed by her. If he had encountered Cate during his maddened rampage, he surely would have given her the same treatment he gave Brink. The Boys universe (rightfully) seems to treat sexual assault as one crime you can’t come back from, as demonstrated by Homelander, Deep, Tek-Knight, Firecracker, and Rufus remaining villains. Not to mention how Cate played along with Firecracker’s transphobic smear campaign against Jordan in episode 4. After Jordan called BS on Cate saying she was “forced” to do it, Cate’s only response was to falsely claim Jordan “tried to murder her and bragged about it in front of the whole school.” Overall, I feel Cate’s a similar case to Lamplighter and Victoria Neuman, who are listed under the Unintentionally Unsympathetic trope over on The Boys. Especially since she didn’t give a genuine apology to anyone and just suddenly seemed to stop hating humans.
Thoughts?