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openNo Title
I wanna get a second opinion about an item maylove25 added to YMMV.Frozen.
- Internet Backdraft
- People have also accused the film of being racist for having an all-Caucasian human cast instead of using a larger variety of race, believing Disney has not including enough variety of race in their movies as much as they would like (Disregarding that Disney had included a variety of other races in some of their past films like The Jungle Book, Aladdin, Mulan, Pocahontas, Lilo And Stitch, The Emperors New Groove, Atlantis The Lost Empire, Brother Bear, and more recently, The Princess And The Frog, which even adapted most of the characters as African-American, which wasn't even indicated in the original story). These people started a "This Could Have Been Frozen" project, with people submitting their own versions of the story and recasting Anna and friends as non-white northern native people.
1) I'm pretty sure no one has called the film racist 2) I think the issue about lack of diversity has to do with disney's princess line not their animation works in general.
I dunno this looks kinda overly defensive to me.
Edited by captainpatopenNo Title
I want to add something to the Internet Backdraft entry of Frozen Disney, but I'm not sure whether or not it would come off as Conversation In The Main Page.
This is the part I want to add to:
- While acknowledging that Disney has made strides in including people of color in their films in the past few decades, such as Aladdin, Mulan, Pocahontas, Lilo & Stitch, Brother Bear, and The Princess and the Frog, some have observed that Disney has featured a larger proportion of films with a Caucasian human cast than films with people of other races.
And this is what I want to add:
...though it could be mitigated by the fact that most of the countries portrayed by Disney Films (like England, Norway, Germany, France, and Greece) have historically had large Caucasian populations, while films with PoC Princesses have generally been set in places where Persons of Color are prominent (like New Orleans, Hawaii, Colonial America, and China).
...So, should I add it in, or just dump it in the Discussion Page? Thanks in advance.
Edited by PilotSolarisopenNo Title Western Animation
Whizzer Mckwoff keeps addding YMMV items here
, even though he's been repeatedly told not to.
open OffTheDeepEnd
troper OffTheDeepEnd
's edits in the character page of Mulan
. He has changed many examples with proper context to badly written context ("Cool Old Lady : She's very", or "see Trope x",) or with wrong Example Indentation and natter. His edits were also very much based on his personal opinion (about Mushu "to the point that most of the time one will probably wonder if he is even necessary in the film"). Can someone revert his edits?
openHuh?
I don't understand this example on YMMV.Moana, under Broken Base.
- The title originally caused this. Many Disney fans have been peeved at the trend of One Word Titles that Tangled started (and according to Gigantic the trend is still sticking around). Others don't mind and like the title. It also helps that Moana is a Character Title instead of something vaguely related to the film such as "Ocean".
Moana isn't an adjective title like Tangled or Frozen. Disney has been using one-word character titles for a very long time. (Pinocchio, Dumbo, Bambi, Cinderella, Aladdin, Pocahontas, Hercules, Mulan, Tarzan, and Bolt) How is it any different from those films?
Edited by MrMediaGuy2openquotes page question
In the quotes page for Drill Sergeant Nasty someone has added the full lyrics to Mulan's "Make a Man Out of You", I'm not sure it entirely fits the trope nor that it is entirely kosher just to put the full song lyrics there. Can a mod advise, please?
openThe Army Coming Over the Ridge Film
I don't see this trope covered in your website.
It happens all the time when one army is staring down another. To demonstrate the steep odds facing the one army, the ominous music (or sound effects) plays, the camera cuts to a vacant ridge, then we see the whole of the opposing army slowly emerge until they darken the entire ridge.
EXAMPLES
Mulan = the Huns charge the Imperial Army through The Tung Xiao Pass.
Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace = the Droid Army's tanks slowly approach the Gungan force fields.
The Return of the King = the Riders of Rohan arrive at the gates of Minas Tirith.
Game of Thrones, S 07 E 04 = We hear the Dothraki screamers for a long while before they charge the Lannister Supply Train.
I'm sure there are dozens, if not scores, if not hundreds of additional examples.
Edited by HughmsweeneyopenCan Expy apply to an entire race? (re: The Orville) Live Action TV
Since "The Orville" is essentially an homage to Star Trek, over on the main page the Expy trope is getting hit hard and heavy. Many of the parallels between the Orville crew and their Star Trek counterparts are credible. But of late, examples are popping up about how entire races in The Orville are expies to races in Star Trek (ie Krill are Klingons/Romulans, Alara's race kinda resembles the Bajorans, Darulio's sexually open race is reminiscent of the Deltans, etc).
I don't think these are appropriate examples of the Expy which, to my understanding, focuses on a specific character not an entire race.
I'm looking for confirmation of my understanding on the Expy and if there is a more appropriate trope for collecting the similarities of races between two works.
open Mulan evader
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Disney.Mulan
Looks like there's a guy with a gibberish user name posting some weirdness. Given that it's been reverted before, pretty sure it's an evader.
Edited by bitemytailopen Headscratchers/Mulan2020 - rude edit
The proposed 2020 remake of Mulan has a Headscratchers page made for it, which I agree does seem really superfluous and egregious. And I do agree with Damneddifiant
's sentiment, but it is a pretty rude way to go about saying it.
Is it okay for a movie that is two years out from release to have such a page? Also, a mod might want to keep an eye on Damneddifiant's edits too. I've sent a notifier and deleted the comment.
openUser with grammar problems
User Steeltron
has grammar, punctuation / run-on sentence and (quote) formatting problems, plus a bizarre habit of consistently mis-spelling the the word "have" as either "halved" or "havled"(?).
I sent them a grammar/spelling notifier a month ago to which they never responded, but they still have been making sloppy edits since. See BojackHorseman
, Sixteen
, Ben10
and especially Mulan
.
openAmbiguity Index pages that are indexed from the main wiki too...
Ambiguity Index pages aren't supposed to be wicked from basically anywhere else...
So, are these exceptions, not disambigs, or what?
And yes, there is the one wicked from Example Sectionectomy, but that's not the main wiki.
Some of them have images... Which lead to being indexed on Image Source pages. ... Disambigs shouldn't have images, right?
- Avalon
- Black Eyes
- Camelot
- Dead Air: Also doesn't seem like a disambig...
- Diplomatic Immunity
- Dunning Kruger Effect
- Excalibur: Also doesn't seem like a Disambig...
- Foe Yay: Is this a disambig? It's got subpages which seem to hold examples...
- Fridge
- Golden Age
- Film.Hercules
- Intelligence: Doesn't seem to be disambig-ing between anything...
- VideoGame.The Legend Of Zelda
- Mismatched Eyes
- Mulan: We don't have a page on the original mythological figure that I can point the wick to.
- WesternAnimation.Pound Puppies
- Film.Revenge: It seems to get indexed 'cause we don't have pages for either film...
openMulan 2020: Safe to Recreate? Film
The page for the 2020 Mulan live-action remake is currently a redlink for not having a trailer/tropeable material. With today's release of the first proper trailer and poster, do we think it's safe to recreate or not yet?
openRequesting a lock
I'm requesting a lock on YMMV.Mulan 2020. People keep trying to add Overshadowed by Controversy, but it hasn't been six months yet.
Edited by Mickoonsley19openDispute on YMMV.Mulan
There is a dispute between myself and Catcher In The Wry on YMMV.Mulan. In short, I removed an entry he wrote, and he took offense to it, PMing me to say he was "annoyed" and that he would take it to a mod. He has not restored the entry, so it's not an Edit War yet, but from the tone of his PM, and of the entry I deleted, I figure it's better to get here first.
The entry was for Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Unintentionally Sympathetic; the first I deleted because it was, to my judgment, factually inaccurate — it stated that Shang gave no instruction (despite the Make A Man Out Of You montage showing him leading the group in exercises, as well as the group improving, clearly implying that his teaching is effective), and that all he did was demand the recruits like Mulan perform expert level feats and scowl when they failed. Basically, the entry seems to assume that the actions shown in the aforementioned montage are literally the only things Shang did with the group, and therefore Shang is an unreasonable bully for not teaching Mulan anything and then being annoyed that she isn't an Instant Expert.
It also had indentation issues, with a second level bulletpoint that just further expounds on Shang's supposed failures.
The second I deleted because it's based entirely on the first — saying Obstructive Bureaucrat Chi Fu is sympathetic because he's right to be critical of Shang's alleged incompetence. As the first entry is factually inaccurate, the second one based entirely on that should also go.
So far he has not yet PMed me over removing his Alternative Character Interpretation (which I deleted because it doesn't actually explain the alternate interpretation, it just sort of trails off with a parenthetical about how what Chi Fu did was justified), but given his reaction to my removal of his other entry, I expect it's forthcoming.
In all, the entries appear to be based less on the content of the work, and more on this troper's personal dislike for the character Shang, which is in turn based on a factually inaccurate understanding of the movie.
open Troper Does not Know YMMV
OK, so hi. Long story short, I watched Disney's Mulan. I disagreed with Shang's teaching methods and felt that said methods were a major contributor as to why his students were doing so badly at first-I also felt his captaining skills were an Informed Attribute (Probably should have put the phrase "Informed Attribute" in my entry now that I think of it, but what can you do?) and he mostly is seen quickly failing at the task at hand so that the title character can save the day. I wrote:
- We're supposed to see [Shang] as this cool dude with this catchy song, and it's not his fault that all his recruits are a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits[sic] afterall. However, from the get-go Shang saddles them with incredibly difficult tasks-like shooting a pomegranate out of midair and dodging flaming arrows, which would be ridiculous for beginners to start out with, and even more ridiculous when you realize that due to the Hun Invasion, they only have three weeks to reach elite level skills. Not helping is that Shang is shown giving barely any instruction at all-just handing them their equipment and watching them fail miserably (And maybe giving them a single brief demonstration if they're fortunate) and getting angry that they can't perfectly replicate these crazy difficult feats on their first try. How they shaped up is a mystery of the ages.Special mention and particularly egregious example in teaching Mulan hand-to-hand combat-we never see him teaching any of the recruits moves, or stances, and instead just forces Mulan to go up against him. Keep in mind that Shang is implied to have had years of specialized training for this and Mulan is still one of the recruits who is doing the worst (and has only been training for a few weeks). As you'd expect, Shang pummels her in a few seconds almost effortlessly. And yet Mulan is portrayed as a "bad student" despite doing her best to oblige her teacher's insane demands.
- ...Shang's biggest (and only) critic, Chi-Fu, is pointed being unreasonable when he criticizes Shang. And we're supposed to agree with Mulan when she calls Shang a "great captain". But when said captain starts his students of with expert-level skills instead of building their strength and endurance or giving them some practical combat level and never really demonstrating any kind of teaching aptitude whatsoever.
- This entry makes no sense. We see a three-minute musical montage. Of COURSE we're not going to see him giving instruction because that would be boring. He obviously must be giving instruction because they're improving noticeably. This takes things out of contexts[sic] and makes completely unreasonable assumptions.
The point is is is that I had an opinion and he/she removed it and is accusing me of character bashing.
For his/her side of the story, see here.
(But know that I am a girl/"she", not a boy/"he")
openMulan WMG Film
This is on the WMG page for Mulan (2020) :
- Between the disastrous test screenings, the lead actress' poor reception (considered to be "more concerned with looking pretty than emoting"), her controversial opinion regarding the Hong Kong protests (which will not be discussed further here), the backlash Western fans have given to most of the changes (No Mushu, no songs, no Shang), and the recent underwhelming performance of Maleficent: Mistress of Evil at the box office, I'm not entirely confident that this film is going to do well in theaters. Perhaps if it ends up underperforming, Disney will decide to start releasing its remakes exclusively to Disney+, or eventually just cease to do them altogether.
- There's also the coronavirus outbreak to be taken into consideration. It took everyone by surprise, but due to the large outbreak many Chinese citizens will be on quarantined or unmotivated to go to the movies, which will lead to the box office badly hurting.
I don't think this is okay, is it?
openMulti-person Edit War on YMMV.StarTrekPicard
The following entry has been the subject of a long, drawn-out, multi-person Edit War on YMMV.Star Trek Picard:
- Common Knowledge: The show's detractors often complain that the Federation is "racist" now, and that they refused to help the Romulans due to bigotry. In the show proper, however, Starfleet did try to help the Romulans evacuate for several years before the attack on Mars destroyed much of the armada they'd been relying on. Furthermore, it's made explicitly clear that the decision to cancel the rescue was a case of Realpolitik rather than racial bigotry — many member worlds were uncomfortable expending so much resources to help the Romulan Star Empire, the Federation's oldest enemy, and following the attack on Mars, Starfleet simply couldn't afford to rebuild the rescue fleet from scratch. The ships that were already deployed were ordered to stand down and cease helping, using the situation on Mars as a reason to abandon the project as a whole.
- In addition, writer Michael Chabon has confirmed that much of the Federation's isolationist streak is a lingering effect of the damage the still fairly recent Dominion War did. However, Executive Meddling has so far prevented the show from exploring this in any greater detail due to fears of Continuity Lock-Out.
I'm of the opinion that it's Not an Example. It's unclear from the show precisely how much of the decision to pull out of the Romulan evacuation effort was due to a lack of ships and how much was due to anti-Romulan sentiment, however it is clearly stated that fourteen Federation member worlds were threatening to secede before the attack on Mars led to a lack of ships, specifically because of anti-Romulan sentiment. Characterizing the Federation as having an element of anti-Romulan racism is canonically correct.
As for the improperly indented second bullet point, Word of God is interesting trivia and everything, but if it didn't make it into the show proper then it didn't make it into the show proper, and even if it did, it doesn't change the main point at hand.
openNever Live It Down question.
Per proir ATT
, I added this to YMMV.Star Trek Picard:
- Never Live It Down: The Federation refusing to help the Romulans has caused many to label them as racist. This is despite only 14 of the Federations over 150 member worlds expressed such sentiment, and that the Federations would have helped the Romulans regardless if not for the attack on Mars which was so devastating they could no longer afford to send aid nor the fallout of losing said member worlds over it.
Afterwards, HighCrate changed it to this:
- Never Live It Down: Fourteen Federation member worlds threatened to secede if Starfleet sent relief aid to the Romulans, and the rest of the Federation / Starfleet is complicit in denying aid that cost millions of Romulan lives. This has lead several in the show's fanbase to characterize the entire Federation as irredeemably racist.
This removes the explanation for why it is an unfair exaggeration which prior cleanup deemed a requirement for all NILD examples. HighCrate is active on other cleanup threads and was involved in said prior ATT, so I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt over this. But why the change? Is there something I missed? I've invited them here to discuss this.
I'd ask NILD cleanup but it seems inactive at the moment given my last inquiry there has yet to be responded to.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught

I think I have the right place to ask this. I thought about "Trope Talk" in the forums but that's about the tropes themselves, the alternatives given here don't match either, and there's no activity in the Discussion page for one of the two works (the other doesn't have a trope page/discussion at all). If I'm wrong I'll take it where it should go. Anywho:
Trying to figure out which trope a particular situation comes under. I originally added it in Never Learned to Read but now wonder if it's better suited to AcCENT upon the Wrong SylLABle.
The example refers to a character used in sketches on the Mark & Brian Radio Program / The Brian & Jill Show. The character is an out-of-work voice over artist where the gag is that, while he otherwise speaks fine, once he starts reading the scripts he mispronounces the hell out of everything. An example, quoted in Never Learned to Read, is below.
Never Learned to Read, given the premise, seems the better fit. But the guy can read. He just stinks at it (found a version of the sketch that lampsahdes this in fact). Accent seems to fit, but at the same time seems to be about mispronouncing the word by just stressing the wrong syllable, which this character cranks up to absurd levels.
Wondering about a possible 2nd opinion.