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open Argument over a fanfic with a deleted page - resolution needed
Someone needs to step in on the comments section of a review thread.
A little over six years ago, one troper (Valiona) wrote a negative review
of a fanfic by another troper (deltanine) who rewrote a chapter of Fairy Tail so that Erza Scarlet enacts Cold-Blooded Torture on her tormentor, Kyouya, far beyond anything that was done to her (and far more violent than is typical of Fairy Tail as a whole, but the author has continuously defended the events of their story as justified and insists that it isn't a Troll Fic). In 2021, delta bumped the review to complain about the P5 decision to zap the work page advertising it (instead of appealing to the mods after their ATT complaint was rejected
after being told that they don't have the final say in what goes on the page and what doesn't). As recently as two days ago, delta bumped the review a second time to complain about the deletion again, and the conversation since has steered off-topic from discussing the merits/demerits of the fic to other users complaining about delta's necro-posting.
P.S. I wanted to use the ATT function instead of the "Flag This" link in the review since that indicates there's some problem with the quality of the review itself (I don't think there is).
Edited by MacronNotesresolved Possible Edit War in YMMV Page for Elemental? Western Animation
I only realized after my last edit
on YMMV.Elemental 2023 that I might've accidentally been part of an edit war on whether or not Fireboy and Watergirl should be linked despite not having a page yet. I was the first one to make the deliberate redlink here
, but The Jayman 49 removed it here
without explanation. Hqami then added it back
, explaining why it should remain redlinked, but then Matthew Guy 6131994 removed it again
without explanation, and that was when I accidentally re-added it without checking the edit history. Is this still an edit war even if it doesn't follow the ABA user pattern of adding/removing? And should there also be a commented-out note not to remove the deliberate redlink because of this? I sincerely apologize for accidentally getting myself into this, and will make sure that I read the edit history before making any changes.
openNot quite a straight example? Videogame
From the Video Game section of Somebody Doesn't Love Raymond:
' 'Psychonauts 2: According to Lili, Truman Zanotto is the only person who doesn't like the workplace-beloved mail clerk Nick Johnsmith, regarding him as a sycophantic Yes-Man. (Or in his words, an "obsequious little lickspittle".)''
This entry, while accurate, isn't quite a straight example - the reason is that Truman Zanotto is Nick Johnsmith, who is actually a deposed tyrant seeking revenge. Truman has "Nick's" brain inside him, while "Nick" has been rendered mindless. So in truth, the person "Truman" apparently doesn't love is himself.
While complicated, what does this detail make this entry? A subversion? Played with? Zig-Zagged? I'm not sure but it's not as straightforward as the trope implies.
Edited by DragonFaxresolved VERIVERY wipeout
m80592718's only edits to the wiki involve wiping out most of the main page for Music.VERIVERY and replacing the entirety of the YMMV page with a generic line of text that doesn't even have a troper attached to it. None of their edits have edit reasons.
Can we get a mod revert (on the main page only, I've restored the YMMV page myself).
Edited by UFOYeahopenGirlfriends/Girl Friends
Howdy. New here, still learning my way around the site, apologies if this is the wrong place to post this, feel free to let me know if there's a better place for this kind of thing.
If you visit:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/GirlFriends
you will learn about a yuri manga from Morinaga Milk.
If you click on the "Characters" tab, you will learn about the characters of a completely unrelated live-action TV show named "Girlfriends". The "Series" tab is also about this same TV show.
If you click on the "Film" tab, you will learn about an independent film completely unrelated to either the manga or the TV show.
Is this working as intended? Or is it something that can/should be fixed?
If it's something that can/should be fixed, is it a fix which readers like myself can fix? Or is intervention from a Higher Power required?
open Could we consider reviving "Adaptational Weight Loss"?
A few months ago, I made a post
about creating an Inverted Trope to Adaptational Curves. Most of the comments were mixed - some thought the idea might be good, while others considered it pointless.
But then I remembered that someone already made a trope related to it - Adaptational Weight Loss
(which I brought up in my post) by KJ Mackley. Unfortunately, the project was abandoned the same day it was conceptualized, with the troper themself being inactive since 2021.
It's a shame since this trope had so much potential to fit with the other inverted "Adaptation(al) X" examples that Adaptational Curves lacked. So I thought to myself that "maybe I should adopt this trope and revise it a bit". After all, there have been some tropes stuck at the TLP that have been adopted by other users, so it would make sense to for me adopt this trope that has been discarded for almost 5 years at this point. Please note that I'm not disrespecting the original troper; I'm only doing this because how much potential this trope has.
open AdmiralDT8 vandalising a page. Literature
A user going by the name AdmiralDT8 has vandalised Loyalty Among Worlds and deleted the YMMV and the Trivia articles for that fanfiction. It is unknown if this is really AdmiralDT8 himself doing this or the work of a troll. If it turns out to be the former, then this is a funny case of Dear Negative Reader
Profile here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/AdmiralDT8
open Trope page uses picture from a work banned for pedo-bait.
Howdy.
I am a n00b and am trying to learn the culture of the site, so I am going to ask what may be a very obvious question.
The work Eiken has been removed from the site for being pedo-bait (or at least for sexualizing minors):
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13359551860A25597800
I discovered that this morning when editing a trope page which used an unlinked Eiken as an example. I tried to look up the work via search (I've never heard of it before this morning), and found that thread.
Because time is a flat circle, I ran across another page about half an hour later that uses an image from Eiken as the page image:
So! My question is: Is this a problem?
According to the discussion thread on Eiken, the girls in that picture are, like, 10 years old.
On the other hand, the picture itself is not itself a problem, and if I hadn't read that discussion thread, I'd have no idea they were 10 years old.
So I can see an argument for removing it, and I can also see an argument for not removing it. Just curious as to what the prevailing wisdom is here.
Edited by MacronNotesopen New NRLEP Crowner!
The crowner for the week of June 4 - 10 is:
- Appeal to Worse Problems - Too Controversial, attracting ROCEJ violations
- Baby Be Mine - Too Controversial (as it's a True Crime trope, namely kidnapping and often murder), Gossip, related to the NRLEP tropes Law of Inverse Fertility and Stalker with a Test Tube
- The Baby Trap - Too Controversial, a Sex trope, has attracted oddly misogynistic edits in the past, Gossip
- Big Anime Eyes - Impossible in Real Life
- Bug War - Impossible because the trope is about fighting with supernatural insect-like aliens or monsters, not real bugs
- But I Can't Be Pregnant!! - Gossip, a Sex trope, attracting misuse, ROCEJ-violating medical advice, and weirdly pedophilic anecdotes
- But We Used a Condom!! - A Sex trope, Gossip, has a history of poor examples
- Hand on Womb - Too Common
- I Do Not Like Green Eggs and Ham - Narrative/Characterization, Too Common
- I Just Shot Marvin in the Face - Too Controversial, attracting NSFW and Gossipy examples, related to the NRLEP trope Accidental Murder, continuing to attract new poor examples even after being KRLE'd last year
- Longest Pregnancy Ever - In the way that it happens in fiction Impossible (it's impossible to be pregnant for months, years past your due date and still end up with a healthy baby at the end), attracting misused examples
- Maternal Impression - Impossible in Real Life (based on a now-discredited medical theory) -
- Matricide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Morning Sickness - Too Common, Narrative/Characterization because IRL this is not an instant tell that a woman is pregnant
- Pater Familicide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Patricide - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Perverted Sniffing - A Sex trope
- Ridiculously Average Guy - Impossible in Real Life, Characterization, Stereotyping
- Self-Made Orphan - Too Controversial, a True Crime trope, related to other NRLEP family murder tropes
- Shockingly Expensive Bill - Too Common, frequently a Narrative trope
- Sibling Yin-Yang - Characterization
- Take Over the World - Too Controversial, Morality (since it's related to Generic Doomsday Villain)
- Teen Pregnancy - A Sex trope, Gossip, Too Common, related to the sexuality of minors
- Town Girls - Characterization
- Your Heart's Desire - Impossible in Real Life (since it requires a supernatural wish-granter)
openDuplicate work page
It seems that someone has tried to disambiguate Film.Transformers from the Franchise.Transformers page by creating a new page for the film, Film.Transformers 2007. However, the former page still exists. It seems to me that Film.Transformers should be made a redirect to Film.Transformers 2007 and the former page should be cut, but when I tried to disambiguate works myself,note with Stalker (1979) and Stalker (2014) I was told that this isn't the correct procedure when I added the old pages to the cutlist. What exactly should be done in a case like this?
open Where did the 'Leather pants' come from in 'Draco's leather Pants'?
I understand the meaning of the trope itself. I'm just curious about how it got it's name.
How exactly does re-writing a villain to make them more sympathetic translate to them wearing leather pants?
resolved Stub report
Webcomic.Cindy Lee doesn't have a single trope and also lacks a link to the work since it is supposed to be a webcomic. Despite this, it has a character subpage (Characters.Cindy Lee).
Checking both pages' history shows that they were created by a troper named Sochimbuchi, who has only edited these two pages
and nothing else since January of this year. It turns out that Sochimbuchi is the author of this webcomic (mentioned here
), which seems to have opted to delete all tropes and the link to the work
at the end of last year. The webcomic itself also seems to have been deleted from webtoons for unknown reasons (the link
that was originally added no longer works and doesn't appear on the author's webtoons profile page; it hasn't been saved to the wayback machine either).
Can I delete this page?
Edited by SoyValdo7openHandling Fanfic Recs Who Break The "No Self-Recommendations"-rule Web Original
I was told to come here for this question, so I hope it's not a dumb one:
How is the breaking of the "No Self-Recommendations" rule handled in Fanfic Recommendations? Like, if somebody posts a fanfic rec of their own fic, is the entry in question just cut with a provided reason for the entry being cut, or does the user in question also get a warning?
I figure that it's probably just the former, or maybe even cut without having to provide a reason(?) because a self-recommend isn't a big deal in comparison to active policy violations, but I figure that it's better to ask anyway. I just want to know if I can just go ahead and cut such an entry or if there's more of a procedure to it.
Edited by MagmaTeaMerryopen Are Kyle and Korey from Being Ian the "Manly man and Sensitive guy" duo of their TV show?
Kyle: He's the oldest brother out of the three siblings, Korey, Ian, and himself. He is laid-back, lazy, and serves as a “Big Brother Bully” and an "Aloof Big Brother" to Ian and on occasion Korey. He's very very smart, but doesn't act that way because he he is self-conscious about his status as one of the cool popular kids. He's obsessed with girls and acts like a casanova towards them. Kyle's main interests are razzing his brothers and pursuing the opposite sex. He will readily chase any attractive female that catches his attention, but these advances usually end in rejection. He is always into girls and has a dirty mind set. When it comes to his brothers, he's aggressive towards them when he bullies them.
Korey: He is very eccentric and not even his own family understands him much of the time. He is also implied to be quite private. Caught in the middle of his two brothers, Korey combines Ian's niceness and sensitivity with Kyle's laziness and antagonism. He is a bit naive and sweet, but always willing to help his brothers out of a pinch, He can be the “Baby of the Bunch”. Ian seems to have a better relationship with Korey, overall, than he has with Kyle. He has a high pitched voice as well, especially compared to Kyle. In the episode "Bad Day at White Rock", Korey is rescued by a girl named Andrea. She proves to be something of a tomboy (Not at Level of Sandi) and shares a lot of his interests. The two get along famously and Korey develops an obvious crush on her, on the way back home even dreaming of her as he sleeps. He also gets flustered when Ian calls her his girlfriend, after the pair 'rescue' him. He is also a little shy and naive when it comes to love.
openPossible Broken Aesop? Film
So, saw that adding a Broken Aesop to The Last Jedi's page would need to be approved first, so I figured to ask if this was acceptable (or if it was already added/removed)
One of the aesops was that your life is too important to throw away. However, it's underscored by not Holdo's Heroic Sacrifice to take out an entire fleet and Luke's sacrifice to hold off the First Order long enough for everyone to escape, but it's also underscored by the person giving the aesop in the first place, Rose, who nearly died to save Finn from having to sacrifice himself in the first place.
open Are me and my friend a real life example of the Tomboy and Girly Girl duo?
My friend: She doesn't wear any makeup, has a short boyish haircut, and wears clothes like T-shirts, jeans, pants, and sweatshirts. She also doesn't wear nail polish or get her nails done. Although, I've seen her wear a dress to prom once when I saw her there.
Me: I wear makeup (mascara, lipgloss, blush) almost every day, if not all the time. I have my nails manicured all the time as I enjoy pampering myself by doing my own nails every 2 weeks, I wear blouses, jeans, dresses, and skirts as my choice of clothing. I love doing my hair and giving myself blowouts before going to school. I also love love, LOVE going shopping especially for cute clothes, cosmetics, cute shoes, perfume, and getting boba. My favorite color is pink and honestly I would get anything that is pink and has bows on it.
The only difference is our personalities. She is a Genki Girl while I am more like an Ice Queen, or an Aloof Dark Haired girl.
resolved Rewriting Walkthrough Mode Page Videogame
Here's the summary of Walkthrough Mode:
For example, let's say Alice adds the Puppy Stomper 3000 to That One Boss. Bob follows this up by stating, "Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z." Then Clara comes by and adds, "To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town."
Using the example from the above paragraph, here's what it looks like on a page.
- That One Boss: Puppy Stomper 3000 is hard because of blah blah.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
- To be fair, you need Sven in your party to use the Ring of Puppy Protection. It's easier to use the Stick of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to bring the Ring of Puppy Protection to the Ring Transumation Fairy in Scary Town.
- Actually, the Puppy Stomper isn't tough if you have the Ring of Puppy Protection, which only requires you to do X, Y and Z.
The first two paragraphs basically describe a videogame mechanics-themed version of Thread Mode, which... editors shouldn't do either, but if all the page has to say is "don't thread mode about game mechanics", it probably doesn't need to exist — just point to Thread Mode instead.
To my understanding, what Walkthrough Mode should tell readers is that they should avoid cluttering examples with numbers, niche mechanics, and long-winded guides that are only tangentially relevant to how there is an example of a trope — this is suggested to me by that last paragraph. Here's a version I think could work, which emphasizes that:
For example, let's say Alice lists the Puppy Stompertron as an example of That One Boss, engaging in Walkthrough Mode to do so:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It's got a massive 70,000 HP health bar (by the end of the factory, you'll be dealing 300 DPS at best), has immunity to Bleed, Stun, Dizzy, Confuse, and Love, and all of its attacks are That One Attack. Puppy Squishing deals 10,000 damage and can only be survived with the Anti-Ten Thousand Medal from the Numbers Swamp, Puppy Flamethrowing is supposed to deal only 40 damage to the player once but a bug with the level geometry can cause the flames to deal 400 damage if the player's standing on the many hills around the arena, and the Dog Food Ingester will heal it back to full unless the player has done the sidequest to obtain Dog Food Poison, which is easily missable at the start of the game. The only thing that can make this easy is the Puppy Stompertron Control Device to cut its HP in half, which is only available to builds that use the Dagger of Air Vent Entry, a 37 Charisma build to take it from the Puppy Factory Foreman (you can't go with any other level of Charisma, he starts liking you too much if you do), or a glitched maximum Speed character to clip through the northeast locked door and access the room where it's stored.
As you can see, this entry is hard to read because it's loaded with tangents on whole-game strategies and numbers that mean nothing to an outsider, when all that's needed is to explain how the Puppy Stompertron boss is harder than the rest of the game. Let's see an example that does just that:
- That One Boss: The Puppy Stompertron appears at the end of the Puppy Factory and presents a massive roadblock to the player. It has massive HP for that point at the game, immunity to many of the useful status effects, and all of its attacks are That One Attack — dealing massive damage or healing itself to full. The only ways to get past it painlessly involve highly-specific strategies and/or exploiting glitches, neither of which are available to every character class.
This entry is much more succinct in stating why the Puppy Stompertron is an example of That One Boss: it has high stats, immunity to statuses, powerful attacks, and the mechanics to make it easier aren't universally applicable. By cutting out details, the example becomes easier to read and digestible, yet the non-Walkthrough Mode entry still manages to communicate key points on why the Puppy Stompertron is this trope.
As a side bonus, when talking about games that are receiving post-launch updates, avoiding exact numbers gives a degree of futureproofing. In many games, if a change needs to be made, the numbers are usually first to be adjusted, so if the Puppy Stompertron ever has its HP or damage values changed this way, the example doesn't suddenly need an update to correct those parts.
While it is understandable why Walkthrough Mode happens, wiki articles are not walkthroughs for how to beat That One Boss or That One Level. Trope examples should be generic enough that those who aren't familiar with the game can understand them, and shouldn't be cluttered with something like the exact attack strength of a weapon or helpful asides about which two of the three Superbosses can be affected by the Game-Breaker. This isn't to say that you shouldn't list your example with little to no information, which is the opposite problem; you just need to explain why your example is that of the trope in question in a way that's digestible to the average reader.
See also Word Cruft, another writing element that makes examples bloated and indigestible by adding too many unnecessary words.
Does this look good to use on the page?
Edited by PyhrrousopenKarma Houdini
If a character dies getting what they exactly wanted are they still a Karma Houdini?
Say, Junko letting herself executed, Ragyo and Nui's death etc.
Edited by Mr-ex777

The YMMV page for Star Trek: Picard features two examples of Unintentionally Sympathetic:
I could be wrong about this but I thought US is about characters that come off as sympathetic, even though the story doesn't want viewers to sympathize with them. Granted, the show kinda shoots itself in the foot by portraying the Higher Synthetics (insert Mass Effect reference here) as genocidal racists, but the entries for US don't do themselves any favors by portraying the Zhat Vash and Control as genocidal racists themselves.
What do you think about this? Is there a cleanup thread for this trope or something?