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Ask the Tropers:
openChanging a work's name Anime
Just wanted to check with you if the process of changing the work's title to it's English official translation was correct: 1/ Create the new page with the new name 2/ Copy the entire content of the former page 3/ Cutlist the old page with the untranslated name and ask to create a redirect to the new page (or create the redirect myself but I never did that...)
Am I correct? Thanks!
resolved An addition that I might need help on evaluating Western Animation
MamaLadilla suddenly added
the phrase "(and confirmed biologically-female)" to this entry. Turning it from this:
- Viewer Gender Confusion The non-binary Raine Whispers is sometimes mistaken for a man due to their masculine voice and hairstyle, though a flashback episode shows their younger self with a more feminine voice and appearance.
To this:
- The non-binary (and confirmed biologically-female) Raine Whispers is sometimes mistaken for a man due to their masculine voice and hairstyle, though a flashback episode shows their younger self with a more feminine voice and appearance.
OK, first off, where was that confirmed? Second, was this really necessary to add?
Edited by AudioSpeaks2openMisplaced IKnewIt Entry? Web Original
In Trivia.Cell Spex, I Knew It! is now YMMV, but it's about CellSpex herself accurately predicting a meme. Should it still be moved to the YMMV page?
resolved Verifiable source for character name? Film
The Characters/SonysSpiderManUniverse page gives the name "Corinne Wan" for the Malaysian EMT that the Riot symbiote takes over in Venom, but to my knowledge her name is unrevealed in the film itself (she has a name-tag but I personally can't make it out) and Michelle Lee is only credited as "Malaysia EMT/Riot Host".
I checked the edit history for the page and the editor who added it cites the SSU wiki as their source, which doesn't provide any sources for that being her name... so is there an official reliable source for the EMT's name being Corinne Wan?
EDIT: Her nametag does say Corinne Wan, but it's hard to make out since her full name is only briefly visible at the beginning of the movie.
Edited by Arawn999resolved Possible edit war, spoilers on headers Videogame
Yuusha Fan has added a spoiler tag
on a header in this character page. I removed the tag
and then he added back in anyways
. The thing he added is literally a big time spoiler. Also there is no edit reasons, already DMed him about it. Can I undo that thing? I've already undid it once and I do not want to risk an edit war myself.
openDo images have to go through image pickin' or not?
The previous Image Pickin' thread
for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero eventually held a crowner for both itself and Good Is Not Soft as they shared images eventually decided on pulling the image that was found there and await a new thread where a new image could be discussed.
The consensus was that the then-image was poor for Good Is Not Soft, and it was decided to remove it.
Alex Hoskins then Seemingly added in a new image
a few weeks ago without discussion on the matter. Am I correct in thinking that this is a no-no and the image should be pulled?
Or did I miss something?
resolved Strange, complainy creator page
I just noticed that the creator page Creator.Ake Ohlmarks is, to say the least, a bit unusual. It starts as a normal creator page, saying that he was a Swedish scholar and author, and briefly lists some of his works and that he's infamous for his translation of The Lord of the Rings.
Then it launches into a long, detailed list of why this translation is so bad. This makes up about 95% of the page.
One take is that all this is pure complaining. The criticism is not unfair: he took far too many liberties with the source material and committed many outright translation errors, and Tolkien himself was not pleased. But, still, spending 95% of a creator page blasting one of his many works seems like complaining to me, no matter how deserved the criticism is.
You could argue that all this should just be cut as complaining. But the analysis is somewhat interesting, so I'm wondering whether it can be salvaged in some way, perhaps as an Analysis page. Or is it OK to have this on the Creator page? That's why I'm not taking this directly to Complaining cleanup.
Edited by GnomeTitanopenWhich of the examples are accurate and which of the examples are just character bashing? Anime
- Neon Genesis Evangelion:
- Asuka Langley Soryu often proves herself worthy of this trope:
- She always criticizes Shinji for being useless, even though she constantly screws up missions with her own stubbornness and pride.
- She blames Shinji for their botched first kiss, claiming that he's rejecting her, when it was her own fault for goading him into kissing her with convoluted and mixed signals, as well as holding Shinji's nose to prevent his breathing from tickling her, which suffocates him. All of which are very unromantic.
- She frequently calls out Shinji for being so weak and vulnerable, despite the fact that, as the series progresses, it turns out she is just as weak and vulnerable as he is, albeit trying to hide it with aggression and temper tantrums.
- She treats all the boys she's around with contempt and considers them perverts and/or idiots, yet she herself engages in very inappropriate sexual conduct with her guardian, Kaji, and consistently makes and commits idiotic decisions and actions that not only endanger her but others.
- She constantly attacks Shinji for not being "a man" or not "manning up", yet she herself is hardly what one would call "womanly".
- While it's partially true that Misato shows Parental Favoritism towards Shinji, Asuka is the last person to call her out, especially when all she wants and craves is to be praised, loved, and coddled.
- For all her complaints about no one caring for her, she herself is shown to care very little (if at all) for the well-being of her teammates, even belittling them after enduring serious trauma.
- She also has the nerve to blame others for rejecting her when she frequently and deliberately rejects, rebukes, abuses, and takes advantage of others.
- She calls Shinji selfish for wanting to save the world merely to impress his father, yet Asuka's own motive is at its core just as selfish as she does it out of a need for validation too.
- She feels entitled to and demands unconditional devotion and praise from anyone and everyone she meets. However, Asuka feels no obligation to treat others with even the slightest amount of respect and decency unless doing so will keep them under her thrall or otherwise advance her interests in some way; she treats virtually everyone around her with undisguised contempt.
- Asuka is also in no position to chew Shinji out for being afraid of getting hurt and being rejected by others, considering that she herself is afraid of getting hurt by others, and especially because she is one of the people, aside from Gendo, responsible for hurting and rejecting Shinji.
- Asuka gets angry and disgusted at Shinji for complaining, claiming that he's always blaming others, yet she is the one who whines and complains more than anyone in the entire franchise and consistently blames or shifts the blame to others for her own faults.
- Asuka Langley Soryu often proves herself worthy of this trope:
openListing every couch gag Western Animation
I don't really know where else to put this, but I'm wondering if CouchGag.Bobs Burgers is a proper use of the subpage. It lists every example (up to Season 10) of the show's Couch Gag (namely, the names on the store next door and the van), while most other examples of Couch Gag simply stop at a summary of the gag, and maybe give a few noteworthy (e.g. Lampshade Hanging) examples. For comparison, the reason CouchGag.The Simpsons is so lengthy is because the intro has multiple couch gags and their variants tend to be very self-referential and involved due to being an iconic Trope Namer.
So should we cut the Bob's Burgers page and just move it to a couple of examples?
openQuestion about a couple of Square Peg, Round Trope entries
I was unsure where exactly to ask this since a) it's something I'm unsure of but isn't exactly a trope example, and b) isn't something I want to do immediately regardless, so I'm taking it here.
I came across a couple SPRT entries about a month ago that I've been ruminating on, one that was added in 2011
and the other in 2019
, which respectively (in their current forms) are:
- Fridge Brilliance isn't "My favorite show is awesome and makes no mistakes". All series have plot holes and issues, even if insignificant, and trying to deny it with an "I Can Explain" won't change this. That'll just lead to invokedFan Dumb. A lot of people don't understand the line between Fridge Brilliance and Wild Mass Guessing. Fridge Brilliance is "Oh, X is Y because Z", Wild Mass Guessing is "Why is X Y?"
- Amazingly enough, the word Trope itself has undergone severe Trope Decay on this site. A trope is something that's objectively a part of the work. Audience Reactions and Trivia are specifically stated on these pages to not be tropes, since they occur either in the work's audience or other external materials, not the work itself. Despite this, it's hard to find a page for an Audience Reaction or Trivia item that DOESN'T refer to itself as a Trope (they even all have “trope” as the page type in the sidebar), and the YMMV and Trivia subpages for most works contain examples that say "This trope happens" or something similar. Even this very page, supposedly dedicated to correcting misused terminology, contains examples describing Audience Reactions and Trivia as "tropes"! And Playing with a Trope is something that can only be done to actual Tropes since Audience Reactions are very rarely "played" in the first place, so most examples on a YMMV page that are "Subverted" or "Downplayed" are inherently misuse.
The FB entry was originally natter according to the archive, but I don't necessarily think the phrasing/restructuring of the phrasing is related to the actual problem I'm personally seeing — that being that this sounds like its discussing another Audience Reaction entirely. Sacred Cow was the first thing that came to my mind, but that's not really speculation-related; the only thing I can gauge from the entry is that it's common for tropers to ask a question in the context of FB (like "X, perhaps?"), but I can't say that I've ever seen people use FB to justify plot holes. Mainly this entry is just really unclear.
The Trope entry...is a bit more complicated. I'm too lazy to fetch the exact archive dates now, but Subjective Tropes and (I think) Trivia Tropes used to be a thing for quite a while, before it was decided that neither were actually tropes. That aside, the page for the former says, and I quote, "this used to be the name for YMMV, tropes that objectively exist, but whose examples are subjective", something that the entry either ignores entirely, is simply written without the knowledge of, or is misinterpreted. The part about the sidebar was added a bit earlier this year, which I don't think is necessarily a bad addition—especially since the rest of the entry (particularly the last couple of sentences) are pretty complainy—but it makes the entry sound contradictory, even if it doesn't really "prove" anything one way or the other. "Inherently misuse" also sounds like Word Cruft.
So what should we do with these? Should they stay on the page or nah? Curious about what others think. Edited by Coachpill
resolved Non-YMMV trope in YMMV page: Final Fantasy Legend II Videogame
...And I thought it wouldn't ever happen again, but it does:
In the page YMMV.Final Fantasy Legend II, Nintendo Hard is listed there. Speaking of which, Video Games difficulty might be subjective between players, but if a lot of players see the Video Game with trope page in this site is seen as hard, it would been listed in the main page, rather than the YMMV.
Oddly enough, the trope has been there from the creation of the YMMV page, which is relatively new compared to the main Video Game page itself, and created in January 2021, likely to make out a separate YMMV page for Final Fantasy Legend II).
What will I do?
EDIT: As of this TRS thread
, apparently the decision of Nintendo Hard being subjective has resulted it in being moved to YMMV trope. So I guess it's fine to move it back to YMMV. And this is after I self-locked the query by marking it as Resolved! Dang it.
resolved Is this comment contradictory?
So I was editing Inside Out and came across this comment below a obvious ZCE for All-CGI Cartoon stating: "The above trope's page says it allows zero-context examples since the title is self-explanatory. So, please, don't comment it out." Site policy demands that ZCEs should be commented out or have added context. This appears to have been added
by Asterlix last year. I did check the page for All-CGI Cartoon and found no notice at all supporting this. Is this the troper trying to get away with adding ZCEs by making up their own rules?
resolved What's the line between Bad Boss and Mean Boss? Web Original
In response to a previous query
, I recently moved all the examples of Bad Boss on Not Always Working's page to Mean Boss due to trope misuse. Now I'm considering moving the Mean Boss examples to a new page, but I'm wondering now if some of the Mean Boss examples counted as Bad Boss examples after all.
For instance (text copied from the article itself),
- This boss
expects a worker to clean up an active biohazard without any sort of protective gear, because calling the city about it would cost too much, yet loaning the worker equipment they're not trained in, or letting them buy the equipment themselves, would be illegal. The worker quits on the spot.
- This boss
tries to send an employee out for carts in the middle of a severe thunderstorm, and then screams at and fires them when they (rightfully) object. Luckily, Laser-Guided Karma kicks in right away when her boss finds this out, and, thanks to an extensive history of screaming in front of customers, she is immediately fired the next day for intentionally putting the employee's life in danger, and later gets thrown behind bars for assaulting her ex-husband over a lost custody battle.
- The bar owner in this story
refuses to reschedule a mandatory meeting (which turns out to be just an hour of patting herself on the back for the bar's performance during a busy period, ignoring the staff's efforts) despite a two-foot blizzard being forecast, and threatens to fire anyone who doesn't attend. Despite their obvious reservations, the poster manages to get in just one minute late... and gets a write-up for it. The poster quits on the spot. Those who failed to attend — most of the staff — are indeed fired, but promptly sue for wrongful termination and win; it also comes up that the staff weren't paid for attending the meeting. The Department of Labor gets involved, and not only is the bar forced to close, but the owner ends up having to sell her home and many of her possessions to cover legal fees, damages, and back pay. At the end, the poster notes that none of this would have happened if she had just taken their advice in the first place and rescheduled.
- The grocery store manager in this story
won't allow the poster, a lot attendant, to come in for a drink of water, despite being in the middle of a July heatwave in Florida. After four hours of this, a passing gentleman convinces him to go inside, offering to speak to the manager in person and even buy some water. The manager immediately spots the poster and fires him. However, said gentleman, who turns out to be the regional director, steps in, angrily berates the manager for her reckless endangerment of an employee and gives her a fourteen-day suspension — which soon escalates to her dismissal, as it turns out that she has been forcing underage employees to work longer than labor laws allow and denying them mandatory breaks.
- This supervisor
refuses to let the OP, whose Psycho Ex-Boyfriend is always waiting for her by the door at closing time, leave through an alternate exit, laughing in her face when she has had enough and threatens to quit. She does (sending her resignation to the "big boss" who completely understands), and even goes through the unemployment process... but the supervisor refuses to accept this and treats it as her going AWOL, finally calling her up and threatening to fire her if she doesn't show up for work, and ignoring her protests that she doesn't work there any more; the poster finally agrees to come in just to shut her up (but doesn't do so, obviously). After her number gets blocked, the supervisor starts sending employees to the OP's house to demand that she come in to work, though all they do is "chill" at her house (and get paid for doing so). The poster eventually moves (and the ex is dealt with legally).
The impression I get from Bad Boss in my last query was that BadBosses are willing to kill or let serious harm befall their underlings. Would you guys say these examples count?
Edited by DancouMaryuuopenDeleting references to cut work
Several weeks ago, Elmo 3000 deleted all examples and quotes linking to WebVideo.Mau Ler because "Red link". I'm aware the work page itself was cut because it was deemed non-tropeworthy, but I'm not sure if there's a policy for or against purging all references to such works wholesale.
(I admit to doing this myself for one fanfic cut by P5, but on lewdness grounds which don't apply here.)
resolved Trope Launched Before It Was Ready
On the draft for Peculiar Penguin
, both Booplesnoot and myself expressed concern over the scope of the trope, both saying it was too broad and that the page needed work before launching. Bedford took some of our advice, but also ignored large parts of it and went ahead and launched once the trope drifted off the front page.
Is this kosher? The page had just barely passed the minimum wait time and had its launch announced prior, but to my understanding the launch announcement is to be delayed when there's an issue.
EDIT: Changing some of my wording, the draft had more hats than I remembered.
Also, is there a dedicated place to discuss recent launches?
Edited by MurlocAggroBopenWeird character folder quote change Film
On 26th Oct, sapphyblue change the folder quote in Mark Hoffman's character folder on Characters.Saw: Jigsaw and Accomplices from a quote said by Hoffman himself:
To one said by another character to him (incidentally, the one Hoffman told the aforementioned line to):
I find this change rather weird because I've never seen any character folder or character-specific page use quotes said by other characters to describe the one whom the folder/page addresses (even if they give an idea of who the character is). I'm not really sure how I should deal with this, though. Is it best if I send sapphyblue a notifier? Should I bring this issue on a forum thread? Or should I do something else? Perhaps it's better to leave it as it is?
Edited by Inky100openDub-Induced Plot Hole misuse (not Plot Holes)?
- Naturally, this is the case when My Little Pony: Equestria Girls received a Japanese dub that was released on Netflix. Japanese viewers may be confused as to where Twilight suddenly got wings from, and why she suddenly has a crown and is a princess. Of course, since Season 3 of Friendship Is Magic had yet to air in Japan, which explains everything, this left a major plot hole in Equestria Girls' Japanese Dub. It got worse when Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games were quickly and subsequently released in the region. Rainbow Rocks features Twilight's new castle, and Friendship Games has a scene in its Stinger mentioning Twilight's time-travelling adventures. Naturally, since Seasons 3 and beyond have yet to come to Japan, this turned a mere plot hole into a plot canyon for Japanese viewers. Needless to say, many Japanese fans are not happy that the Equestria Girls films have been dubbed before the rest of Friendship Is Magic and have even boycotted this move by watching Japanese fansubbed versions of the original show in English online instead. This hasn't deterred anything it seems, as Legend of Everfree and the Magical Movie Night special were still released in Japan. Speaking of the latter, it features Starlight Glimmer, effectively making it her debut to Japanese audiences (and not her villainous self in "The Cutie Map"), thus expanding the plot holes even wider. Not sure if plot hole as it's effectively Out of Order (if/when the dub catches up) and/or offscreen developments. Only the first might be a plot hole as it's the only one critical to the logic of the story, the others are just nods. Dub Adaptation Explanation Extrication might be better.
- BIONICLE film examples: Swedish and Hungarian dubs of The Legend Reborn misinterpret the Great Beings as "Giant Beings", giving the impression that the huge robot assembled at the end of the movie is such a giant. The word "Great" is merely a fancy title, the Great Beings are no giants, they'd be about the same size as most of the main characters and the robot is one of their many creations, not an actual Great Being. Dub error, but not plot hole as it does not effect/break the internal logic behind this work. But one of the redirects is Errors Through Localization so does/can DIPH also cover non-plot holes?
open AC formatting issue?
Earlier I sent a private message to a usually reliable helper on this site about this:
"As of now, using the AC (with double square brackets) formatting make them appear as a separate link automatically from others. I think back then some of these look like just simply another stylish way to bold text, and an example of use is seen with GLaDOS's self-demonstrating page, and this is the most atrocious change thanks to how AC now forces a line break between the non-AC text.
Any idea how to help with this? And it's not just this page, a plenty of pages had AC text formatting."
The reply I got was "Ask on Ask The Tropers. I don't know what to do.". I'm not sure either what I could do with that, but the new AC formatting made it...rather uncomfortable for me to try to read through all of the text, especially since the AC formatting is used as self-demonstrated example of AcCENT upon the Wrong SylLABle.
Edited by JustNormalMusicLover

Troper PickleRick2017 deleted the following from YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 7 E 26 Shadow Play Part 2 without explanation:
I PM'd them about Deleting The Scrappy but haven't heard back. I added it back since policy is not to cut YMMV unless you give a reason. Anything else?
I asked the Scrappy Cleanup before and after this if the Pony of Shadows counted a, but it was ignored. Should the be removed if no-one apparently feels this strongly?