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openVideos not showing?
According to recent videos, there's a video for Never Speak Ill of the Dead approved.
However there's no video on the trope page itself.
openReporting a troper
lugia1 is deleting a whole bunch of commented-out ZCEs with no edit reasons (see A Boy and His X and Abhorrent Admirer). They have also made some grammar and capitalization mistakes, as seen on Abandon Ship and the subpages of Get a Hold of Yourself, Man! (which I fixed). Requesting a revert on the removal of commented-out examples; they're left like that so people can add context, and deleting them is rather rude.
Edited by rjd1922openEdit War on Midsommar Film
Recently, I deleted a batch of examples from Midsommar for misuse and/or shoehorning, and rewrote a few others, all with edit reasons given (edit history
).
Soon afterwards, phylos restored several of them
, just as they were before (no changes). They did give an edit reason—-technically; however it amounts to (I paraphrase) "You only deleted these examples because you think they are misuse and/or misrepresenting what is happening in the movie! You can't do that!", plus an invocation of Tropes Are Flexible.
Now how would I go about to resolve this? I don't think phylos has in any way refuted the reasons for which I deleted these examples; but deleting them again would be edit warring.
For some of these examples, the point of contention is that we have a different interpretation of what is even happening in the movie. Hence why I would like to get people who have watched the movie to weigh in. I don't think there is much use in bringing it to the discussion page, because very few tropers ever actually go there. Should I present my case here in ATT? Or should I make a dedicated thread on the forums?
Edit: Since phylos complained that I did not present his argument (while simultaneously declining to defend it himself), I figured I might mention the points of contention. (The following requires you to have seen the movie. For those that haven't, 'spoilers ahead).
- There is a scene in which Christian, who has earlier been given psychedelic drugs by the cultits of Hårga, has sex with a Hårgan girl, Maja (which a Hårgan elder had already tried to persuade him to previously). phylos believes that since Christian was drugged, he was not able to give consent, therefore (and because the Hårgans kind of pestered him to do it) the act was non-consensual, ergo constitutes rape of Christian by Maja. Therefore rape tropes like Double Standard: Rape, Female on Male apply.
- At the end of the movie, the Hårgans request Dani, Christian's girlfriend, to select the last human sacrifice from among all people present. She choses Christian. Because Dani had earlier seen Christian having sex mit Maja (see above) by peeking through a keyhole (and which she obviously experienced as traumatizing), phylos feels certain that Dani choses Christian as a punishment for, or in revenge of, him having cheated on her with Maja. But as (see above) Christian was really raped, he was not cheating on her, Dani watching the scene was a case of Not What It Looks Like, and her dooming him to death is Victim-Blaming.
I could explain why I think phylos' interpretations are distorted, but as phylos has already declined to engage in discussion, I'll just wait whether anyone else wants to voice an opinion.
Edited by LordGroopenMarking tropes as spoilers: a question
Somewhat new troper here. I was curious if someone with more experience could clarify the "don't mark tropes as spoilers" question. I had a scenario where marking the trope as a spoiler seemed like a good idea.
There's an RPG Maker game called [1] that establishes early on (as in the game's description on the Steam/itch.io page) that the game takes place in the dreams of the 8-year old protagonist. Early on the game's page is the trope Adventures in Comaland. A late-game twist establishes that Jimmy has terminal cancer and the game is basically his final coma dream where he's trying to overcome his weakness and forgive himself so he can die peacefully. Having that trope sitting out there unspoiled seems like a big spoiler because it establishes the true nature of Jimmy's dream.
So why would I not be allowed to mark it as a spoiler in that case? It's a case where it seems like it should be marked, but I wanted a Tv Tropes veteran's explanation/opinion.
openUse of "we", "us", etc. on the wiki
I know that first person writing is not allowed on the wiki (because the articles are not about you), but what does that say for pronouns such as "we" (usually referring to TVTropes itself)?
openDeliberatre misindentation
Guiletheme misindented when adding an example in EarlyInstallmentWeirdness.Real Life, I fixed the issue and sent them an Indentation notifier. Next time I blink the eyes, they re-add the misindentation and then add another misindented example. See for yourself
openA pet peeve regarding quotes
So, what's the correct way to use punctuation marks inside quotes?
This: Alice said, "Hello world."
Or this: Alice said, "Hello world".
Some use the former (I think it's the American style), while others, myself included, use the latter (European style).
Is there a wiki-wide rule about quotes, or if it's "first come first served", like spelling? Furthermore, is it okay to change one form for the other?
Edited by RoundRobinopenFlanderization cleanup?
Is there any forum entry to fix Flanderization entries? I noticed that multiple entries are less about flanderization itself, but adaptations. For example, "Oh yeah, Shadow was totally flanderized"... except he wasn't, this is a different interpretation of the character.
This is also a question how exactly flanderization works in adaptations like anime filler, since there is no source material to adapt for the writers.
This is also a problem I have with Character Exaggeration, as the difference between both appears to be blurry.
Edited by TomodachiopenCreator's page redirected from Troper's page
So the troper Kelothan had recently decided to make a TLP draft on which they revealed their intention to quit the site. Out of curiosity I looked at their troper's page...but it redirects to a "creators" page for themself, making it much harder to actually see their edits. Since they've left, should this be cutlisted? I don't think it's kosher in the first place to have your troper's page redirect to something else.
openUndertale cleanup page Videogame
I want to discuss something that's about a general cleanup page for potentially every Undertale page. Specifically, I want to remove lines in articles where the tropers themselves refer the players who do the Genocide route a Complete Monster, or something similar to that, without it being an example of when the game itself is trying to make the player feel like a Complete Monster.
openMinecraft YMMV Videogame
A big majority of the YMMV subpages for Minecraft such as Awesome, Funny, and Heartwarming, are mainly just stories about things other players did and put online and have nothing to actually do with the game itself. Is that allowed?
openIs this too much?
YMMV.Fate Apocrypha contains the following entry:
- Rooting for the Empire: The show eventually had the Red Faction becoming the main antagonist faction. But there are some that believed that they deserve to win:
- First, the members. Shirou Amakusa is a Well-Intentioned Extremist whose end goal could be said to be admirable, Karna being an overpowered yet honorable Servant, Achilles being a sociable bro and also overpowered Servant, Atalanta for her very pure wish (and the tragedy that comes with it) and tough attitude and adorable cat ears and tails, Shakespeare for his ham in just about everything leading to hilarity even when he's the antagonist, and Semiramis for being a classy, sexy dominating queen with oddly adorable elven ears. Even their deserter, Mordred, gets a LOT of love due to her overall badass daredevil attitude and accomplishment that fans may also want her and Shishigou to snatch the Grail. While Spartacus might not get very high levels of love due to being eliminated early and unfortunately being considered 'wasted potential', his craziness and meme factor in his short run was also welcomed. While the original masters except Shishigou were reduced to props without personality, it's not quite considered a damning factor and instead wins the favor of the camp that believed that the best part of Fate series are the Servants, not Masters.
- Next, the first half's members of the Black Faction. While we had Fiore and Caules as genuinely good Masters of the faction and Gordes' fault was just being a haughty jerk; it's worth noting that the leader, Darnic, was a former Nazi collaborator that consumed the souls of children (his way of dealing with Zouken might not be enough to cleanse those). And Celenike is a serial rapist with no redeeming features. And their last master, Reika, is a crazy serial killer who directs Jack the Ripper, the one responsible for the terror in London for a long timeNote Not to mention, Reika wasn't the intended master of Jack, her place was supposedly filled by magus (possibly under Darnic's command) Hyouma Sagara who attempted to use Reika as a sacrifice for the summoning that Jack killed him on spot and switched to Reika, who went crazy afterwards.. At first, this sets up for the show being Grey-and-Gray Morality to facilitate on rooting for the Red Faction.
- A minor point but Shirou was originally a servant to an Einzbern homunculous and was distraught when the latter was killed by Darnic. Anybody who was fond of the other Einzbern homunculi tend to be slightly biased in favor of Shirou.
- Next, the second half's members of the Black Faction. By that point, both Darnic and Celenike have been killed due to their own evil actions and Gordes had a change of heart, whereas both Sieg and Jeanne entered the faction, turning the Black Faction to be the more bonafide good guy team (Reika is eliminated in a latter time). This upsets people who were more into moral grayness and thought it was unfair that the Black Faction was cleaned up to be a less subtle "good guys" team, and it didn't help that Sieg was the show's biggest Base-Breaking Character, furthering the desire for people to cheer for the Red Faction which was considered to have more nuances.
- Finally, the Servants of the Black faction, while pretty good, have been much more of a mixed bag. Siegfried might be the one who would make the faction cool, but then he killed himself very early to revive Sieg. Chiron is overall pretty cool and his relations with Fiore was well-liked, but a lot thought of him as more of a supporting cast to Achilles' development. Vlad was cool on his run, but got the short end of the stick when Darnic forced him to turn into Dracula and then was quickly eliminated by Amakusa. Avicebron committed a despicable treachery and for this was struck down like a traitor that fans overall ignored him until he got a better showing in Fate/Grand Order. Jack's design put off a lot of fans and her role as a Serial Killer didn't help her. Frankenstein is a mixed bag overall. When Jeanne came in, people eventually got pissed with her budding romance with Sieg that she was considered ruined, leaving only Astolfo as the only cool Servant there, but even he had his own detractors.
I can see a perfectly-valid argument to be made for why people would want to root for the Red Faction, despite my own opinions on the matter. It's just... this feels too damn long with several long bullets being devoted to building up the same point, which is probably in defiance of Administrivia.Clear Concise Witty. Should I shorten this, and if yes, how?
openShout-out memes: valid MemeticMutation entries or not?
Recently, two Memetic Mutation entries for My Next Life As A Villainess All Routes Lead To Doom were removed with the edit reason "I don't think those really qualify since they are memes from other works, not ones caused by this.". The removed memes are basically story-appropriate twists on famous quotes from The Dark Knight and Untitled Goose Game.
Since references to other works found in the work itself have always had their place on the wiki, it feels a little strange to see things being removed on the basis that they are basically the fandom doing the same thing. I thought it might be a good idea to see what others think.
Edited by NazetrimeopenReferences in laconics
I know there's a cleanup thread about laconics, but I'm still waiting for a question I asked there ages ago to be answered and I'm worried that if I ask another question before then, it'd be "spamming".
I'm not talking about the "unabridged version" gags. Those are hilarious IMO and can stay. What I'm talking about is when works that aren't spinoffs have laconics that are basically just "Work X, but with Y".
This, I think, is a bit unclear because what if no one's ever seen the work being referenced?
A particularly blatant example is Laconic.Airplane is "Zero Hour played for laughs." I'd never heard of Zero Hour so I went to look at Laconic.Zero Hour (because I didn't want to spend ages reading about a work I wasn't interested in) and it was "Airplane! without the jokes.", which, to make a joke myself, doesn't fly in my opinion.
Edited by UnicorndanceopenWork in the wrong namespace Anime
Le Portrait de Petite Cossette is under Manga/, yet the article itself (and every other source) says it is an original OVA and the manga came later. Can I move the page to Anime/ and turn Manga/ into a redirect?
openReally long example
From YMMV/Arknights:
Applicability: (more accurate transcription in replies)
This is so long I wouldn't even know how to BEGIN to trim it dowm (doesn't help I haven't played the game itself). Does anyone have any suggestions- or is it OK as is? Edited by DefiantKitsune
openAbout Fan Works Web Original
What's the stance on indexing Fan Works examples by work on the main page (instead of a sub-page)? For example, this example from a TLP:
Fan Works Batman
- Angel of the Bat: As in canon, Dick Grayson/Nightwing is of Roma descent. He considers himself a Christian, but mentions traveling with the circus never permitted him much time to study his faith. His first scene also shows him to be a trickster, playing off the stereotypes of Roma being superstitious to grill an enemy which ironically is a Double Subversion, considering Roma are also stereotypically connected to deceit.
openDoes Dummied Out apply here? Videogame
This example of Dummied Out is on the page for Animal Crossing: New Horizons:
- Dummied Out:
- Data for the Sanrio villagers exists in New Horizons, but the villagers aren't currently used, possibly being intended to be added to the game in future updates. The other Welcome amiibo-introduced villagers, however, have no data for them whatsoever.
- Museum room IDs exist
for a cafe (presumably the Roost) and a Gyroid exhibit. ID data also exists for a two-room art exhibit, but this was eventually implemented into the game itself via the Nature Day update, implying that the cafe and Gyroid exhibit will be made accessible to players somewhere down the road.
- Another dataminer
found even more info about dummied content. There's an unused shopping menu for the Museum (presumably the shop that was previously seen in New Leaf), as well as "Real Estate" and "Gallery" shops of unknown purpose. Data relating to diving and deep-sea creatures (from New Leaf) that may also tie into a third unused "Seafood" section of the Critterpedianote The manila clam is the only entity in this category which was implemented in the game at launch, vegetables that can be harvested, and recipes for cooked dishes and clothing were also found among the game's files. Finally, there's also data for a third Nook's Cranny upgrade.
- The same miner also found Leif's garden shop, the return of bushes and artwork, and Redd's Treasure Trawler before their proper release in the Nature Day update. The "private beach" where Redd docks is referred to as "Nつねきち" ("NTsunekichi") in the game's files, with Tsunekichi being Redd's Japanese name.
The problem is, New Horizons is a game that's being continuously updated with new content. As stated in the example, some of the items that were listed as Dummied Out have already been added to the game through content updates, and it's likely that more of them will be in the future. Since Dummied Out appears to deal specifically with content that was cut from a game, should examples be listed if there's still a reasonable chance that they could be added to the game?

I was in the process of making a trope page for the Herself The Elf cartoon, but am unsure what to call it. Wikipedia lists it as The Magic of Herself the Elf or The Special Magic of Herself the Elf, the latter being its onscreen name, and while checking out its wicks other tropers listed it as just Herself the Elf, which was also the name of the toyline. Any ideas? I was thinking of just going with Herself the Elf since that's the general name of the franchise but am unsure. Thanks!